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All P, but no N or K makes bad soil...
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Posted by nicothefabulous 33584 (My Page) on Tue, Nov 3, 09 at 11:16
| At the beginning of the season, I tested my beds. No nitrogen or potassium, but very very high phosphorous levels.
Several years ago, I made these beds by mixing equal parts native sand, peat moss and composted wastewater sludge. That first year was phenomenal, and I had to actually throw away some zucchini, cucumbers and tomatoes because I could not give away all of the extras. For the last two years, my cukes have died before even producing. I still get some tomatoes, but not nearly as many, and many of the heirloom plants did not survive this year. Got good production from one Early Girl plant, but that's about it.
So, what should I do to fix the soil now? The cuke bed has a 7' trellis above for the plants to grow on, so rotating crops is not practical there. I have tried swapping tomatoes and squash to opposite ends of the beds each year, but still no luck. Soil amendments? Ideas? Thanks. |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: All P, but no N or K makes bad soil...
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| Oops, my zip is 88001, New Mexico desert! |
RE: All P, but no N or K makes bad soil...
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RE: All P, but no N or K makes bad soil...
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| Yeah, but what form is most effective to do now for spring? I added some winterizer grass fert, which has no P in it, and that seemed to help. I could also add some potassium nitrate to the soil, but I try to save that for the fireworks... Also use my grass clippings as mulch. Seems like I read somewhere about planting a winter cover crop of hairy vetch and tilling it under in spring to add N to the soil. Anyone tried that? |
RE: All P, but no N or K makes bad soil...
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| Adding N now won't really help what happens in the spring. N doesn't really stick around in the soil. You will probably need to add N regularly to continue to get good results. |
RE: All P, but no N or K makes bad soil...
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| Right, just adding chems now does not make sense. But planting something that will keep weeds down over winter, then provide better soil in spring, is what I am after. |
RE: All P, but no N or K makes bad soil...
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| Any leguminous cover crop will help with nitrogen levels come spring but it may be a bit late in the season to begin planting now. While many of these types of crops are very cold hardy (i.e. the hairy vetch), germination rates may be poor now due to low soil temps. Check with your county extension service to determine what will work best for you. |
Here is a link that might be useful: cover crops and nutrient supplementation
RE: All P, but no N or K makes bad soil...
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| I am a bit concerned about germination rates, but we have only had a few nights where it actually froze. It's 75 now, and lows in the 40s for the next week or so. My tomato plants are still alive, just the tops got nipped. But I can yank them out and plant a cover crop to try. Thanks for the link! |
RE: All P, but no N or K makes bad soil...
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| So many concentrate on N, P, K that they forget about building soil, that is soil that is full of life and humus.Its not a bad idea to check your NPK, but I would check also for micronutrients, humus, and life in the soil. |
RE: All P, but no N or K makes bad soil...
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| nico, Have you been mixing in at least 2 inches of compost each time you plant the bed? If not, that's the problem. |
RE: All P, but no N or K makes bad soil...
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| No mention of the ph. Too high or too low can severely limit most nutrients' availability.Hank |
RE: All P, but no N or K makes bad soil...
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| Micronutrients could play a role also, I should know that from growing aquatic plants in the aquarium! I have added some compost, but maybe not nearly enough. The soil pH was normal for around here, around 8.0-8.2 or so. We have alkaline desert soil. Tap water gives about the same pH! |
RE: All P, but no N or K makes bad soil...
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Start by contacting your county office of your New Mexico State University USDA Cooperative Extension Service about having a good, reliable soil test done and then dig in with these simple soil tests, 1) Structure. From that soil sample put enough of the rest to make a 4 inch level in a clear 1 quart jar, with a tight fitting lid. Fill that jar with water and replace the lid, tightly. Shake the jar vigorously and then let it stand for 24 hours. Your soil will settle out according to soil particle size and weight. A good loam will have about 1-3/4 inch (about 45%) of sand on the bottom. about 1 inch (about 25%) of silt next, about 1 inch (25%) of clay above that, and about 1/4 inch (about 5%) of organic matter on the top. 2) Drainage. Dig a hole 1 foot square and 1 foot deep and fill that with water. After that water drains away refill the hole with more water and time how long it takes that to drain away. Anything less than 2 hours and your soil drains’ too quickly and needs more organic matter to slow that drainage down. Anything over 6 hours and the soil drains too slowly and needs lots of organic matter to speed it up. 3) Tilth. Take a handful of your slightly damp soil and squeeze it tightly. When the pressure is released the soil should hold together in that clump, but when poked with a finger that clump should fall apart. 4) Smell. What does your soil smell like? A pleasant, rich earthy odor? Putrid, offensive, repugnant odor? The more organic matter in your soil the more active the soil bacteria will be and the nicer your soil will smell. 5) Life. How many earthworms per shovel full were there? 5 or more indicates a pretty healthy soil. Fewer than 5, according to the Natural Resources Conservation Service, indicates a soil that is not healthy. to see how good that soil is. These will guide you in what to do. |
Here is a link that might be useful: NMSU CES
RE: All P, but no N or K makes bad soil...
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| Thanks for the advice, I emailed them about it. In the meantime, I'll try these soil tests again. I can do the jar separation test easily enough. My soil drains too quickly, I'd put money on that. Part of the reason I added peat initially. When I mixed the soil, it was to a depth of about 12-16". The main garden plot is against a rock wall which is retaining about 6' or so of earth. The lots behind me are lower. So the soil stays drier than I would like if I am not watering. But maybe I need more organics in it. I think it will pass the clump test okay but will confirm. It smells like dirt, not foul, not too sweet, just like dirt. I will try the earthworm test. I know I have them, but have not counted them. |
RE: All P, but no N or K makes bad soil...
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| I would try some hard red winter wheat or winter rye planted thick. It will germinate on ice and you could throw some hairy vetch in there if you wanted. You can buy the wheat for a song at a bulk bin grocer. the vetch will cost some money but a little goes a long way. The wheat will pull the nutrient available into the plant. Then in the spring spade it under. Green manure. Tilth. Nitrogen. magic. Do not let the vetch go to seed or you may be fighting it for a long, long long time. Steve |
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