go back to your COUNTY EXTENSION OFFICE ... and find the guide they have on this subject ... try a phone call .. the subject being building soil ... aka drainage ...BTW... what you did.. is called a perk test ....

i dont really understand augering holes around the yard either ...

and if anyone else in the area has done this.. and done it well ... you might be surprised.. how willing they might be.. to brag about how they did it ... its kind in the mettle of gardeners ... dont walk by your best resource ... ignoring it ... drop a note in the mail box.. and ask if they would be willing to talk and help you .....

and do understand.. all transplanted plants.. need watering for the first year ... there is no drought tolerance.. until it get over transplant shock .... and dont confuse shock ... with plants being hungry ... dont fert stressed plants ...

good luck ....

ken, the other one.. lol ...

I'll take your topics in order.

1. The sand filled holes are not necessrily supposed to penetrate below low-permeability soil in every case. Instead they're designed to sponge up water temporarily AND provide a larger surface area along their walls for it to slowly leach out into the surrounding soil. It's a temporary holding system. Frankly I like the lasagne idea better, it enriches and loosens the soil and treats the cause rather than the symptoms.

2. I agree if you're tilling and also adding a lot of stuff on top, the lawn will die. If it's very tough pasture type fescue it may try to come through but if you have at least 3-5" of stuff on top it should smother it.

3. Don't worry about wet soil being compacted, it only happens if you till WHEN WET, or walk all over it. Till when not wet but not so dry as to be hard to till - perfectly damp will do it. Avoid foot and vehicle traffic after tilling including minimizing walking on it while laying down the lasagne layers.

This post was edited by toxcrusadr on Mon, Nov 17, 14 at 18:04

Actually 60 minutes is not an indication of a soil that drains too slowly and may be an indication of a soil that drains too fast. The rate of percolation should be about 2 inches per hour, not 12 inches per hour which is too fast.
Perhaps this article from the University of California - Davis might be of some help.

Here is a link that might be useful: about soil drainage

Thanks for the responses.

To Kimmsr:

I may have been unclear as to the drainage time. None of the holes that I dug were drained after 60 miinutes. The test involves filling the holes twice, and I guess the second time is more important (as the first filling of the soil eliminates to bias from the surrounding soil being dry and gives a "truer" indication of drainage). On the first filling, some of the holes were down to an inch of water after about 60 minutes, but that last inch wasn't really budging, so I just did a second fill at that time and waited another hour, at which point the holes all had MORE than an inch of water in them after 60 min. (but were less than half full). The County guide-book I'm using basically says if it's taking over 60 minutes to drain, you have a problem and need to look into augering or tilling, so I did not keep timing to see how long over 60 min. the holes took to drain. Since I'm taking this info from my LA County planting guide-book, I am reluctant to second-guess or ignore it. Hmmm...maybe the rate of perculation varies by area and is "naturally" supposed to be faster in my area, and that is needed for the Guide's recommended plant list, which is why they want 12" per hour or less for drainage? (I'm guessing.)

I would also note that the water seemed to go down reasonably quickly at first, but then slowed considerably as the water got below the halfway point in the holes, which I gess means there's reasonable side-ways drainage from the 6" mark and up, and it is below that that the walls and floor of the hole were more like a bowl than a strainer (or more like a brick than sponge). Basically, for all I, it would take over 3 hours or over 6 hours, or who knows, to wait till the holes were totally empty, so I'm not really sure how bad my drainage problem is.

To Ken_Adrian:

You suggest getting my County Extension's "guide," but I'm pretty sure that's what I'm using, and what I linked to above. Did you look at that guide, and is it NOT the same thing? Note, with budget cuts and a big city and stuff, it's nearly impossible to get a County person on the phone in Los Angeles, at least when I've called to talk about other stuff, like permits and tree trimming and stuff, so I'm not real confident in my ability to find some one in the County to pick their brain my questions...

to Toxcrusadr:

Thanks for that reply, I learned some stuff. It sounds like I can till and then use lasagna method without fear of grass sprouting everywhere. If we did til, then add the lasagna layers, we'd then be walking over the soil to some extent to do our planting (cutting through all the layers and planting in the "real" soil that the grass is in, as I understand it), so I am a bit concerned this would cause compaction at least in some areas, and even if we till the soil when it's not wet, the lasagna method calls for wetting down the various layers as you add them, so I'm still not sure if this approach would lead to compaction problem. Maybe my biggest concern, though, is that the tiller I saw for rent at Home Depot looks like it'll only go maybe 6-8 inches deep, whereas the 1-man power auger they rent will go 16 inches deep, maybe more. If I've got a compaction problem below the 8 inch depth, I am wondering if tilling will help that issue at all?

Lastly, there's a suggestion that the lasagna method, standing alone, should fix a drainage / compaction problem organically, as the right mixture of ingredients in the soil will lead to thriving organism or micro-organism or whatever, that naturally keep drainage good. (Sort of like imagining if you cultivate worms in your yard, and they will dig holes as they move through the earth creating a healthy amount of porousness and drainage for the soil, but on a bigger level since I'm sure the healthy soil has a lot of living stuff going on apart from worms.) If my image/analogy is correct, and the lasagna method -- done right -- will ultimately fix the drainage issue, do I really need to do anything? It would be nice if the answer is "no," EXCEPT for the fact that the County Guide I'm following SAYS to do augering or tilling before Lasagna if the drainage is slower than 60 min for a 12 inch hole.

My main concern with doing the lasagna method without improving drainage is that, if water does not drain fast enough from the lasagna layers, will that sabotage the whole lasagna process?

Ken

krm,
Composted cow manure will do everything for you.
It will attract worms big time, which will greatly improve soil health and drainage.
It will add organic matter, which will help with any plantings you want to put down.
The one draw back to tilling is you are tilling up all the weed seeds that are in the ground.
You definately don't want the grass, how about killing it?
Try it slowly, just do the back lawn this coming year.
Spray grass killer over any place this coming spring that you don't want grass.
Then contact a lawn service to come areate the back lawn, after all the grass is dead.
After areation, you will have holes in the ground, buy yourself some composted cow manure and spread it out all over your lawn.(we r talking back lawn to test this out).
Then design and plant whatever you want.
I know, you don't like the idea of grass killer, I can hear you now, but you will know its dead, and start fresh, which a drought tolerant back lawn.
Are you going to hardscape also? Rocks? Patio blocks?
It sounds like a great idea.
Good Luck.

The link I posted, from the University of California - Davis indicates that the information you have from LA county is in error.
A Lasagna planting bed is a form of a raised bed. Raised beds are meant to aid in solving slow drainage problems but can enhance problems if drainage is too fast.
Organic matter, not just animal manures, can, eventually, help with both too slow and too fast drainage problems.

krm27, go ask for help in the California Gardening forum. There are posts there all the time on this topic. You're not going to get the help you need from a person in another part of the country that just posts links. Anybody can use a search engine, you want some first hand experience. I see too many of these drought tolerant landscapes that look terrible. Good luck!

Here is a link that might be useful: California Gardening

Can't argue with that.

Said the guy from Missouri.

:-D

Hi Kim, I live in Simi Valley and am also doing the drought tolerant yard and lawn removal. We rented a sod cutter from Home depot and had our grass out in 45 minutes.... but i do know some varieties of sod have deeper roots... I am researching how to amend our clay soil as well. I have not heard about the auger technique. We are planning on buying a load of soil amendment(american soil in Simi Valley sells a rice hull based amendment that is supposed to be good for clay, $27 a cubic yard) and/or gypsum and tilling it in to the soil.
Not ALL drought tolerant plants need excellent drainage... there are some that can handle clay soil as well. I have several in my yard in which all I did was add some compost to the soil in the planting holes.