Carol..the existing sodgrass will help, but if you've added a lot of Carbon material, it really needs some Nitrogen to assist in decomposition. It doesn't have to be green in color. Used coffee grounds are full of N, and Starbucks gives them to gardeners. Other sources include throwaways at local grocery stores, produce markets and such. If you're near a lake, chances are you can scrounge aquatic grasses from the shore. Kitchen scraps can't hurt, either. It's amazing what you can forage and collect when you put your mind to it.

treelover,

Fish Emulsion for a lasagna bed can get rather expensive. It would serve you better to save that for your garden in the spring. If you live in or near a farming community you may be able to go to a feed store and purchase a 50 pound bag of Alfalfa pellets for about $10.00. Alfalfa pellets get very hot on a lasagna bed, and can be spread thin with good results.

This time of year is a tough time to find greens, as the summer is a hard time to find browns. Kind of look around your neighborhood and just observe what you see. You will be surprised at what people are putting out right now. In no time flat you will be posting on the "Compost Junkie" thread with pride...

Blutranes

Urine.

Depending on the decorating bent of your neighborhood, you may already be too late, but I think pumpkins are considered greens.

I scrounged about 10 pumpkins about 10 days ago in a subdivision about 5 miles from my house, along with lots of browns to save for next year. Since you are so far south, you might be able to pick up the after Thanksgiving pumpkin/harvest display discards. I would second what everyone else has said - hit up produce departments for their discards, try a Starbucks, try to eat a lot of fruits and vegies over the winter and save all the scraps. And try to find somebody with cows or horses for their manure. Do you live city/suburbs/country? Makes a difference what you are likely to find/should look for.

Also, if you are like me and have too much food in your house, clean your pantry. There are things like bags of brown rice you forgot you had, whole wheat flour gone stale, etc. that would go good in your lasagna garden. We have been alternating layers of leaves and horse manure the past few days, to top off our lasagna beds.

Marcia

The cardboard (C:N ratio 170:1), finely ground wood chips and twigs (sawdust 500:1), leaves (40 to 80:1) all have lots of Carbon and little Nitrogen so you do need a good N source. If manure is not too available other Nitrogen sources will need to be used because while your grass *the sod) will supply some N it will not be enough overall.

My local florist saves me a garbage bin a week of spent rose petals and lower leaves of the long stemmed roses she sells.

Those lower leaves and outer petals that start to wilt before selling to customers are carefully peeled off by the florists and disposed of....right into my garbage bin that sits in her back workroom.)

Nice smell too when I dump those bins onto the lasagna beds and quick/light/easy to mix with an abundance of browns and wow - they break down quick.

Worth stopping by your local florist to see if you can help them reduce their garbage output by putting petals and leaves into a bin of your own.

I'll be out shopping for alfalfa pellets today. Will visit some florists, too--great idea! We haven't had a freeze here yet, so pumpkins are still out on porches...I may be able to scrounge a few. Wish I knew some farmers.

I forgot about coffee grounds being greens. My husband is already trained to bring them home from Starbucks for me! (He gave me a look, though, when I asked him if he'd like to pee on the new beds.)

Thank you, everyone, for all the suggestions. -- Carol

Wow,
great post. Thank you so much for the tips!
I am glad to see someone else making lasagna beds this fall for next year. I have the book "Lasagna Gardening" and she mentions getting bonemeal. I do assume this is the Nitrogen she is having you add in the fall.
I am in the middle of bagging over 40 large yard bags with leaves that someone let me have from their yard. While outside doing this, I thought about your post.
I work in a hospital, the tea and coffee are always free to everyone. How about asking your hospitals for the perishables?? I know our hospital has a full time salad bar which you know has to end up somewhere.. what about the schools?? Just a thought.

"How about asking your hospitals for the perishables??"

Be very careful how you phrase this request. ;>)

treelover,

Allow me to share with you about not knowing horse owners; this is what I do.

I watch and wait to see the owner outside moving manure, or riding his/her horse. I walk up and introduce myself and request the privilege of a question. They ask what? I ask, "What are you doing with all the manure the horses give to you? The answer will vary, but usually they burn it or pile it up and pretend its not there. Then I offer to take some off his/her hands. They will look at me funny and say, "I dont have any money to pay to have the stuff hauled away". I say, oh no, I donÂt want any money; in fact I will give you something. They will say what is that? I say, I will make sure you get some fresh tomatoes, or squash, or watermelon next summer when I harvest my garden. I will have just officially made a new friend. Keep your word and take your fill, for the owner will tell his friends about you as well. How it happens for you is a story I canÂt wait to hear.

At first you may feel strange, but once you see all that compost covering your lasagna beds you will experience a different feeling. Most of the time I just smile, then do a manly giggle and walk away looking back at the bedsÂ

Blutranes

blutranes
Thanks for that tidbit. Mentioning the $10 price for 50 lbs was incentive enough for me too make a trip down to Alachua County Feed and Seed to ask. Sure enough, $10 for a fifty pound bag of Alfalfa pellets.
The man there asked if I wanted cotton meal instead. He said it had more nitrogen. I didn't ask the price. I had heard about using alfalfa more often that cotton meal, so I wanted to try alfalfa first.
Anyone have any thoughts on cotton meal instead of alfalfa as a nitrogen source?

Thanks

vance8b,

Alfalfa pellets/meal is the ticket all the time. With alfalfa pellets/meal you get more bang for your bucks in more ways than one. Yes, alfalfa heats up when you are short on greens, but it is a great soil amendment as well. There are growth hormones in the pellets that drive plants nuts. Mixed as a tea, diluted correctly, and sprayed on leaves or used as a soil drench your plants take on a deeper green color allowing for greater photosynthesis. This translates into increased sap production from the plant to the roots in the form of sugar. Microbes love sugar, and they really go to work. This increased work causes the stalks of the plants to grow larger, thus allowing the fruit to grow larger and be well supported by the stalks. Spray the plant with the tea in a month or so and it happens again. A plant cannot support a large fruit unless it has a large stalk. Did I mention all that sap goes into the fruit as well? It does, increasing the nutrition of the fruit (more sugar, healthy sugar not the false kind). As long are one is not greedy and doesnt use too much the plant will decide how large and how much fruit it bears. Yes, deep green plant, thick stalks, and large juicy fruit sounds like a winner to me. Cottonseed meal does none of this. I have a bag of it in the shed; I wont even put it on the compost pile. For this reason I cannot compare the two, maybe someone else can.

One more thing, rose lover sing praises to high heaven about alfalfa tea. They brew it like they brew coffee and pour it on their roses. I am talking about champion rose growers, not just folks like us. Alfalfa tea smells horrible, and the rose grower make all kinds of jokes about that. But they never joke about weather they will continue to use it, smell has nothing to do with it. I use it on my roses, let it warm up long enough even now and they will bloom. I have seen them bloom in January; there is something in that alfalfa that does it. Alfalfa works on any plant, just dont spray it on your lawn unless you have a good lawnmower. You will be cutting grass every three days and have the greenest thickest lawn for miles around. The only person who will have a nicer lawn is someone who too uses alfalfa.

Do a search "alfalfa tea" and see what you find out. I will tell you this about alfalfa, I never run out of it, ever. Those are my thoughts, do experiment and see what you learn about alfalfa, it truly is a gardeners friend IMO

Blutranes

blutranes,

How long does the growth hormone last in the soil or compost? I guess it would vary depending on whether applied as a meal directly to the bed or in the form of tea?

For instance, if applied now, or added to compost, would the growth hormone remain in the soil or compost for next growing season or would it dissipate or leach out quickly?

I do want to try some (never have used it) because I've read so much of it's praises. I just don't get to a feed store. None around here of course, we just have fast food joints here in suburbia.

Karen

Karen, technically, it isn't a hormone, rather a fatty acid growth stimulant called triaconatol. It's most easily utilized by plants in the form of a foliar spray, and I expect it would almost entirely disappear in the composting process. One of it's most famous attributes is the stimulation of budding by overcoming bud dormancy, and is widely used by Hosta and Pot growers.

Kqcrna,

It all depends on how much organic matter is in your soil is the first thing I can think of. The microbes will hold in the nitrogen in their bodies, but if the temperature is too low they will go dormant until the temperature goes above 60 degrees. As to leaching all we have to do is think about it for a minute. Leaching happens when too much water falls on the soil. How much water do you think you will get this winter? Lets not forget snow is water too. Lot of snow/rain means lot of leaching. If it were I, I would save any amending until the spring, for we both know you got some water in your future. If you have mulch on the soil there will be less leaching, but leach it will nonetheless. I really dont like to concern myself with time, microbes dont wear a watch and they work at their own time. They are heat driven, thus the only real absorbing that will be done will be by the humus in your soil. Even the humus can only hold so much. If you amended this year all the nutrients that were not used by the plants is still in the humus and will be there less the small amount of leaching.

I dont believe in putting money in my compost pile, it is for recycling organic matter, it is not a bank. Again, microbes are fast workers given the right conditions. In the winter I make piles a little larger due to the fact that I will not be turning them. This will insulate the pile and give me some really well cured compost at the bottom of the pile. It is this compost I will use in a tea and to dress any plants I put in the ground. The rest will cook faster once I give it some moisture and the temperature rises. I do have to tell myself not to be out there digging in the pile to see if anything is happening too. Leave it covered (the top layer) the middle and bottom are still going strong.

Once spring starts approaching and you start to get antsy you can prepare the bed. Now is the time for cleaning off the beds, preparing for planting. If one needs to add compost now is the time. As well any amendments you wish to add. Remember farmers control growth with fertilizer, we can do the same with our amendments and teas; it is a matter of timing. Get your time right and you will have a neighbor/family problem. They will be plotting on your harvest and all in your way when they think the time is coming close. Healthy plants do that to people, they have not seen a healthy growing garden, you will have one of the best if you leave the watch alone and watch the plants. Mother Nature does not wear a watch. I had to learn to trust; trust I will see the trees start to bud, the plants I chose, the amendments I use, stuff like that.

The growth hormones last until they are gone. The compost/humus holds them until the microbes come to get them for the plants. Plants are not greedy; they only take what they need. As long as the hormone is in the soil you have done your part, now you have to let the forces in your soil do theirs. There are many hormones that can influence plants, alfalfa has one kind, but there are many more we can use. We deal with the "law of the powerful little", we can use a little amendment and get a big result from the plant. Look at how much fish emulsion we are directed to use; 2 tablespoons per gallon of water to cover a vast area of garden. And they tell you to be careful using that!

I love to study the force we deal with, and a mighty force it is. From a seed I have grown giants full of flavor. Food so good you hate to swallow it. We have the knowledge and the means, now all we need is the season. And that will come in its own time

Blutranes

PS Check pet stores for rabbit food. The label will say if alfalfa is in it.

Be careful of rabbit food. It has sodium in it.

It has been mentioned in another thread that composting does not stop below 60 degrees but can continue to zero degrees. The process slows but does not stop. I had just commented to another member on another thread about composting all winter at her home in Canada, thus I know this to be true. I am not posting as an expert, just a gardener sharing his experience. The beauty of this forum is that there are many experiences from all parts of the world sharing to help another. I am forever grateful for this experienced membership, we can watch each others backs to make sure the best information is offered to those who ask...

Blutranes

blutranes, donn, gardenfanatic: thank you for the answers. I will try to get some alfalfa in spring. Right now I will be overwelmed with Christmas shopping. Ugh!

Karen

Karen,

Alfalfa pellets work really well. I've used them on occasion, especially in the gardens for roses and other greedy :) plants. I used to place some in the soil at the base of plants, and cover with mulch, but now I make tea. The reason is the squirrels thought I was feeding them.

So if you have any rabbits, squirrels, etc., in the area, and you want to feed the pellets directly in the soil next to the plants, it might be wise to make the tea instead.

Thanks, tiffy. That is probably another reason I haven't used alfalfa pellets. The squirrels are plentiful, and I have run into possum in my yard a few times (ugliest creatures on earth!). I know that alfalfa pellets are sold to feed many kinds of animals, but the only ones I like to come across in my yard are dogs!. I think that fact always lingers in my head and probably one of the reasons I haven't tried too hard to acquire alfalfa. I need to find a smaller amount than 50 lbs....

Karen

kqcrna,

Alfalfa does come in a meal as well, but it is harder to find due to the fact Tiffy mentioned about alfalfa pellets being used as an animal feed (more in demand). Alfalfa meal too is sold in 50lb bags so there is no relief for you there. Maybe in your shopping excursions this holiday season you will find the need to go out of town looking for some "hot" item that is hard to find and you see a feed store. A long shot I am sure, but it could happen. Animals will always be a problem us, squirrels raiding the pecan trees is a problem here now. Best of luck in your search, someone may come up with an idea soon...

Blutranes

kqcrna
My experience with alfalfa pellets is limited (I bought my first 50 lb bag yesterday). However, what I have already learned is that the pellets do not stay pelletized very long once they get wet. I had mixed some in with some of my leaves yesterday and hosed everything down. Today the visible remains are somewhat intact (fuzzy and puffed up), but crumble pretty easily once touched. I think wetting them right after application may reduce the animal scavenging problem.
Does this sound right to any of the more experienced pelletized alfalfa users?

Vance,

That is what happens over here...

Blutranes

You might also walk into a feed store and find folks which are willing to sell a smaller amount. I buy mine at 10 lbs for $3.00. The feed store I go to never used to sell it in smaller quantities, but they made the effort and it paid off. They started telling their gardening customers about the stuff, and now they sell quite a bit in 10 lbs.

Just a reminder, but those of you who are blessed with acreage, or even just large seasonal veggie plots, can grow this stuff. Summer Alfalfa, Medicago sativa, is a fast growing annual cover crop. Sow it in the early fall, when your veggie patch is finished, and you'll get a good growth before winter kills it. It is Nitrogen fixing, and has long taproots which help to break up subsoil and bring up minerals. Sow it in mid-spring as a good rotation crop.

Donn,

(Blink Blink), never thought about that. Next time I go to town I will ask about seed. Do you have to till it in or will it work by letting it lay on the surface?

Blutranes

If you grow it in fall, you can do either. If you leave it on the surface, you can plant Tomato seedlings right through it, and use it as mulch, much like Hairy Vetch is used. If you grow it in spring, you'll probably want to till or turn it into the soil.

No matter when you grow it, you'll want to harvest some of the foliage and flowers, so you can get the growth stimulant for use in the rest of your garden.

donn: Can you dry some and store for later use?

Karen

Sure can, Karen. Farmers do that for livestock feed all the time.

Thanks, donn.

Glad I found this forum. I'm trying my first lasagna beds this weekend on top of my horrible rocky soil (which was, amazingly neutral when I had it tested).

I am lucky...my FIL is a farmer and so I've picked up a bunch of old manure with some hay mixed in. We also have a lot of leaf mulch and a little wood mulch, too. (FIL also does carpentry so we'll pick up some sawdust, too.) We've layered these (with wet newspaper on the bottom).

Will this be enough of the different ingredients?

(I don't have greens...but will save my grass clippings this summer!)

kimmsr and others - Am I reading this right--that the manure will supply the Nitrogen I need? I can go get some alfalfa pellets, etc if that would be better!

Also, one of my beds is only about 8". I guess I need to keep layering?

Thanks, all! Very exciting.