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| I've gardened all my life, but it has always been on the same general soil type: sandy loamish, low pH, Calcium and Phosphorus, low CEC, low organic matter content. I've learned how to handle this soil.
This past year I moved to the place that I'll likely be for the rest of my life. It's a silty clay loam (almost a clay silt loam). The pH is 7.2, the CEC is high, the organic matter content is 12%, the calcium and phosphorus are very good. This place was grazed for the past 40 years and grows the most beautiful grass I've ever seen, but it definitely has some drawbacks: 1. Poor drainage - grey and orange clay about a foot down. I may have to put in drainage. This year was Super Wet, so I'll wait to judge. 2. Lots of blossom end rot on tomatoes and peppers. All plants were well mulched, and the soil amended with compost. 3. Can't grow beets or swiss chard! Most of what I planted did OK, but the chard never grew more than 8 inches tall, and the beets took the full season to get barely bigger than a golf ball. Weird... Currently I'm making lots of compost (glad to know there are other leaf thieves out there). I'd love some tips on where to begin my research on this type of soil. I have an inkling that the high pH is "locking things up," but I'm unsure what to do (sulfur?). Please point me in the right direction! Thanks! |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by novascapes none (My Page) on Wed, Nov 30, 11 at 5:31
| What I have learned is that rather than try and dig into the clay for planting it is better to row up the area, or raised bed. This allows for better drainage. Also by having the amended soil above the clay the clay below is improved naturally via earthworms and micro-organisms. When you dig into clay you actually are forming a bucket full of water that does not drain. The larger the area the bigger the bucket. Between the rows I use plenty of organic matter for walking paths. This allows for the clay soil beneath to be improved at the same time while acting as a ditch to drain away excess water. As far as the pH is concerned, my clay soil is at 7.8 pH.I only add acidifier to those plants that show signs of needing it. Using compost I have not had to do that after a couple of years of establishment. There are also good cover crops that will help. Repetitive planting of annual rye can eventually send roots as deep as 54"'s. Then there is the tillage radish which helps break up the soil. Do a search on no til farming. |
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- Posted by fortyonenorth (My Page) on Wed, Nov 30, 11 at 10:12
| It sounds like you have had your soil tested. Is this correct? If so, did your lab provide "base saturation" numbers? Base saturation is the amount of each nutrient in the soil within the context of "how much" your soil can hold. "How much" is determined by your soil's CEC. Because you have a soil with a high CEC, your calcium levels may be "good" but they may not be "good enough." If your lab provided base saturation numbers, your calcium should be roughly 68%. Magnesium--which goes hand-in-hand with calcium--should be about 12%. The relationship of these will affect your soil in two ways. First, calcium will "open up" a soil and promote better aeration and drainage. Magnesium will have the opposite effect--it will tighten the soil. Second, if the relationship between Ca and Mg is out of whack, it will affect the availability of these nutrients to the plant. The common wisdom suggests that if your pH is low you add lime (calcium) and if it's high you add sulfur. However, in addition to calcium, magnesium and potassium (and sodium) affect pH. In fact, magnesium affects pH 1.66 times more than calcium. So, in other words, it is entirely possible to have a high pH and still need more calcium. I suspect this is your situation. One indicator is that many grasses (including wheat) are good at foraging for calcium. If you're growing good pasture grass but other crops are faltering, it could be a sign that you have inadequate available calcium. Another indicator is your poor drainage which suggests a "tight" soil. If your soil (mud) builds up on the soles of your boots when you walk in it, this is a sure sign of high magnesium. If your lab did not run a "base saturation test" I would find a lab that does. I use Logan Labs in Ohio, but there are others that will provide the same service. Then, if you find you have low calcium and/or high magnesium, you'll need to address the problem. When, and if, you have to use lime, remember that dolomite lime contains magnesium as well as calcium. If you're Mg levels are high already, you'll want to use a lime that does not include magnesium--Ag lime or calcium sulfate. If you have your base saturation numbers already--or any other information from your soil test--I'd be happy to make more specific suggestions. As an alternative, if you don't have the info and/or don't want to re-run the test, ask around at neighboring farms or an nursery/garden center. They might know the predominating soil conditions in your area and be able to make an informed recommendation. If possible though, I'd start with the soil test. BTW, this test was developed (?) and promoted by the soil scientist, William Albrecht. If you Google "Soil Fertility and Animal Health" you can find much more information about the method. I've also included a link to Kinsey Agriculture which is one of today's leading practitioners of the "Albrecht Method." There's a handy FAQ that provides some interesting information along the same lines. In any event, it sounds like you have a great plot--the soil just needs to be balanced a bit. Once that's accomplished, I imagine you'll be able to grow great crops. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Kinsey Ag
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- Posted by toxcrusadr (My Page) on Wed, Nov 30, 11 at 10:51
| A great question and one I will be watching the answers to. I have very similar soil, although the pH is a bit lower (6.5-7) and I don't have that much blossom rot - only a little on the first tomatoes of the year. I would echo what nova says about drainage, raised beds, mulching paths. You've described my veggie garden perfectly. Have you been spying? :-] But production is terrible in my garden, and I think I too should look into what fortyone is talking about with base saturation. |
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| Some good ideas here. If an area is a bit wettish, and I have dealt some with that, make sure that there are drainage channels to expidite the excess water away from the garden. You can dig channels that are combination drainage and walkways that are parallel to the beds. The dirt removed from the channels goes on top the adjacent beds. Now that beds are then laid out, they can be continually improved with amendments. |
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- Posted by Strawberryhill 5a IL (My Page) on Wed, Nov 30, 11 at 21:50
| Hi fortyonenorth: I appreciate your info. very much. You are right, soil high in magnesium is dense clay. I was wondering about epsom salt for my roses, so I had my soil tested professionally by EarthCo. My soil is alkaline clay with lots of yellow limestones. The report came back: super high in magnesium, adequate in calcium & phosphorus and organic matter. EarthCo. booklet stated: most soil are abundant in magnesium, except for sandy soil. I'm glad to have an informed source like fortyonenorth, many thanks.
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| Thanks All! This is very helpful, and my brain is spinning with plans right now. Just for information: after the wettest spring on record here in NE Ohio, I dug graded drainage channels in the garden. My beds are 4' wide - 36" of growing space, 12" of path. I made all my paths into drainage - 1 inch of depth over every 10' of length; filled with wood chips sprinkled with feather meal for additional N (I was afraid of the chips stealing N from the soil, but this probly just leached out). All the paths drained into a couple of 2'x3' "soak-aways." These became ponds full of tadpoles by the end of this crazy summer. The topsoil went into raising the beds, and these stayed "reasonably" dry. I also added compost and mulched every thing, doing a 1-2" deep tilling after spreading compost and deep mulching with straw or dried grass. I had to buy compost, so I only added about 1-2 inches. Toxcrusder: I can Never resist the urge to spy on another's garden! (Share the knowledge right?) Where are you? BTW, My tomatoes shook the BER (mostly) after the first set. No problems with my cherries or slicers. Mostly it just affected my pasters, and in particular a Johnny's variety (Mariana). Opalka, Amish Paste, and Striped Roman were fine after the first set. Is Ca uptake temp. dependent I wonder? So much to learn... FortyoneNorth: Yes, I had a soil test - a super basic one. No base saturation levels. Sounds like a better test is in order. I have been racking my brain to try to remember Albrecht's name. I had read of him in relationship to improving pastures, and in my conceit (and before owning this property), had dismissed him as a "grazer's guy." Thanks so much for mentioning him - That was like some one itching that spot that I just couldn't reach! I am hoping that your estimate of this place is correct; beautiful grass, but there's something that needs balancing. Today is my long day, and so I have no more time tonight to research, but if I may impose, may I let you all know when I've had a more detailed soil analysis? I will have had time to read up on the Albrecht method, and will be more conversant. Thanks to all for your kind help! Kirsten |
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| It is not the calcium in lime that affects the pH of the soil. Except under very special circumstances, calcium has virtually no effect on the pH whatsoever. |
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- Posted by fortyonenorth (My Page) on Thu, Dec 1, 11 at 8:49
| There are a few good resources that I've found very helpful. The first is a website, www.soilminerals.com. There's a lot of good information there on the Albrecht method and the idea of re-mineralizing the soil. It's written for primarily for gardeners--as opposed to large-scale farming--so it is especially appropriate. Next, Acres USA, www.acresusa.com, inherited the Albrecht papers upon the Author's death and they advocate many of the same principles. They have an archive on their website that includes many interesting and informative articles (http://www.acresusa.com/toolbox/articles.htm). Finally, if you really want to understand soil and fertility, check your library for Neil Kinsey's book, "Hands on Agronomy." It is intended for farmers--lots of talk about corn and soybeans--but the principles are universal and the writing is very clear and understandable. Good luck sunkirst and please do check back with any questions! |
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- Posted by Strawberryhill 5a IL (My Page) on Thu, Dec 1, 11 at 10:41
| When I was testing bagged top soils for pH using red cabbage boiled for 10 minutes in distilled water, I also tested at least 10 other samples, including calcium citrate supplement, and magnesium supplement (magnesium oxide & stearate). Calcium Citrate has zero effect on the purple cabbage juice. "Nature Made" magnesium supplement turned the purple juice into bright green - that's A LOT more alkaline than the baking soda sample (pH of 9). There's a book written by a gastroenterologist, M.D. who advocated patients to take magnesium supplement, rather than TUMS for an acidic tummy or a heartburn. I tried that and slept better. Thank you, fortyonenorth, for recommending excellent sites to further my understanding of soil chemistry. |
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- Posted by fortyonenorth (My Page) on Fri, Dec 2, 11 at 16:07
| And thanks for the Albrecht link. Lot's of great resources there. I had run across that library in the past but, for the life of me, I couldn't re-locate it. Now I have it bookmarked! |
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