Return to the Soil Forum
| Post a Follow-Up
Remediation guidance needed
| | |
Posted by mensplace 7 (My Page) on Tue, Nov 17, 09 at 23:36
| With a huge load of 'Compost" that reeks of railroad cross-ties, creosote and other chemical smells that absolutely REEK of chemicals of some nasty smelling kinds, I want to THOROUGHLY remediate this load before ever putting it on my food. In my research, I read that many remediation additives to compost foul and deadly chemicals from soils are not usable when the compost is for foord use. ANY sources for various biologicals, enzymes, starters or something to throughly remove any concerns thorough re-composting about a ton of this stuff? Seriously, this stuf concerns me and I don't want it on our food until it has had other steps or safe agents used. This will take composting to a new level for me, but maybe I will learn something and find some additives, processes, or biologicals that will make for safer .better composting and breaking down in the future. What I DON'T want to do it make it worse by usining remediation approaches or tools that could make matters worse. |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Remediation guidance needed
| | |
- Posted by jean001 z8aPortland, OR (My Page) on
Wed, Nov 18, 09 at 0:28
| Is it really wet? If so, it's likely anaerobic and needs aeration before you use it. |
RE: Remediation guidance needed
| | |
| The compost was "turned" this week as I unladed it shovel full by shovel full or raked what I could from the truck. Thing is, I came away from it stinking of the chemicals...not the pleasant smell of fresh compost, soil, or even manure...just strong creosote and something else like railroad ties. I just am seeking sources for remediation products with biological or natural abilities to add as I mix this with fresh materials. |
RE: Remediation guidance needed
| | |
- Posted by pt03 3 Southern Manitoba (My Page) on
Wed, Nov 18, 09 at 9:06
| I have zero experience or knowledge on this subject, but I'd discard this stuff. Is it possible that it is RR ties? It wouldn't surprise me that someone would grind them up, mix with some other crap and sell as 'post. I'd be disappointed but not surprised. Lloyd |
RE: Remediation guidance needed
| | |
- Posted by ericwi Dane County WI (My Page) on
Wed, Nov 18, 09 at 10:17
| Petrochemicals, including pesticides made from petrochemicals, will compost, eventually. That is, the toxin will eventually be decomposed and turned into something that plants can use as food. Elements, like arsenic, do not decompose. It will take chemical analysis to find out if your pile of stinky "compost" is safe to use in the garden. |
RE: Remediation guidance needed
| | |
For once I'm gonna say to get rid of it...
You don't know whats in it, creosote is pretty bad stuff and there are loads of chemicals that are worse.
Its *possible* that the smell is just anarobic bacteria and whatnot and mixing a bunch of browns in will fix it but I don't think I'd be into it. |
RE: Remediation guidance needed
| | |
| I'm not sure any of us hobbist can anser your question maybe a email to the universtiy can help The reality of it is if the compost is full of rr ties nothing is going to grow in it and the proper athorities need to be notified I might try spouting some bean seeds in it to see what happens |
RE: Remediation guidance needed
| | |
- Posted by jean001 z8aPortland, OR (My Page) on
Thu, Nov 19, 09 at 0:07
| I still suspect it was too wet. Even though not it's not soggy now, the stench -- a rotten egg or sewer smell-- lasts a long time. And if it is/was anaerobic, the bean seedlings will die as long as the stuff still stinks. Another option -- if this was purchased stuff, is to get a refund & have them haul the stuff away at their cost. So, a question:
Where did you obtain that "huge load?" |
RE: Remediation guidance needed
| | |
| Can you dry it out and burn it? Otherwise, I would spread it out and allow the sun and air to work on it for a while, turning it occasionally. Once it's had a chance to dissipate the more volatile chemicals, mulch it with wood chips. It might be ok as a mulch under trees and bushes, but I don't think I'd use it in a vegetable garden. There was a railroad tie creosote operation on Bainbridge Island in Washington (across from Seattle) that was a toxic site. I'm not sure what they did for remediation, but it was a mess. I'll guess that they removed whatever they could and just let the seawater work on the rest. |
RE: Remediation guidance needed
| | |
| Opinion from a state hazardous waste site project manager with experience in remediation of sites contaminated with creosote, coal tar, and other sources of polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons: If this really is made from creosote treated RR ties I would not be using it either. I would get a second and third opinion on the odor and appearance from friends experienced in composting. If you are experienced and know anaerobic compost from creosote/chemical odor, fine, but if not, get some other opinions. Also talk to the supplier and ask them point blank about RR ties or creosote. If it is confirmed to be creosote, yes some of the components will biodegrade such as phenols and light PAHs like naphthalene, as well as the diesel fuel residue that is used as a carrier for the creosote. However, the heavier carcinogenic PAHs like benzo (a) pyrene (the most toxic of the bunch) are not very amenable to biodegradation. Creosote has dozens of known or suspected carcinogens in it. There is also the possibility that the ties could be treated with pentachlorophenol, which is also toxic, and if old enough, penta can contain dioxins as impurities. Diesel was also used as a carrier for penta. I don't know where you are located but grinding up RR ties and selling as compost or mulch would be illegal almost anywhere in the US. They are a waste that if not reused whole should be landfilled and would not be acceptable as compost or mulch. If you find this was done I suggest you report it to your state environmental agency. Good luck & be safe. |
RE: Remediation guidance needed
| | |
| Have you looked at Paul Stament's site, fungi dot com? He sells some mushrooms that will break down petro-chems. Good luck whatever you do. |
RE: Remediation guidance needed
| | |
| See if your local library has a copy of "Mycelium Running". It discusses remediation in more than one chapter and is a fantastic book overall for better understanding the niche mushrooms fill in "the cycle of life" or "the food web" or . . . . plus, it's got some great photos of Hippies LOL. good luck ! |
RE: Remediation guidance needed
| | |
| compostkate and rockguy...Both some good recommendations! Thank you. I have long been interested in mushroom culture. In fact looking for a reliable source of mushroom spawn to experiment. Never even thought of the role they play in remediation, but with some fun reading about my generation, that makes the book well worth a search. A large part of the stink has gone away, but I have added everything that my research would find..including a few batches of beer yeast and wort, a large batch of Yogurt and kefir that I had specifically cultured to have a broad range of microorganisms, molasses, a couple other cultures purchased from companies, and a bit of my own "Kickapoo Joy Juice". Now to seek some spawn and do more reading. |
RE: Remediation guidance needed
| | |
| White rot fungus is known to biodegrade a lot of toxics, even completely unnatural chlorinated stuff like PCBs. If there is wood in there it's possible some of those fungi will get going. Did you talk to the supplier? I'm still concerned that you may have a pile of toxic crap. |
RE: Remediation guidance needed
| | |
- Posted by jean001 z8aPortland, OR (My Page) on
Thu, Nov 26, 09 at 2:11
| Most likely, the stuff is, or was, anaerobic. Air it out, turn now & then until the smell is gone, then apply with a free hand. |
|
|
|
|
