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| Just got my soil test from the university of Maine.
I am generally very happy with it. Just wondering what you'd do, and why. pH 7.4 Phosphorous lb/A 398 Potassium lb/A 1000 Magnesium lb/A 724 Calcium lb/A 21882 CEC me/100g 17.8(A) % saturation
Organic matter% 11.4 sulfur ppm 26
I also got the new soil microbial test done.
so, as I said I'm pretty happy about the test in general. shows Iron to be low, pH a little high and some other tweaking to be done. the University said to put 15 elemental sulfur/1000 sq ft and gave recommendations for nitrogen input. I have about 2 inches of shredded leaves on the surface now, plus more compost cooking, maybe 2 yards when done. oh it drains good, and has lots of worms....
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Follow-Up Postings:
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| I'd start growing something. ;-) Lloyd |
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| I wish I could!! (gotta get me a hoophouse) |
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- Posted by fortyonenorth (My Page) on Tue, Dec 13, 11 at 22:47
| In addition to the iron deficiency noted, the test also reflects a copper deficiency. In fact, according to your test, I'd say Cu is going to be the limiting factor in your soil. My target copper level is 1/2 zinc, which in your case would be roughly 9-10 ppm (18-20 lbs/acre). It's not advisable to add a lot of copper at any one time, so you might consider adding 2-3 ppm in the Spring and another 2-3 ppm next Fall. Copper sulfate (25% Cu). Your magnesium and calcium levels are somewhat elevated, but the prescribed sulfur will help bring these down. The "ideal" base saturation for calcium is 60-70%, for magnesium it's 10-20%. You're numbers fall within this range, but you don't want the combined total to be over 80%. Two things that are not indicated on your soil test that would be nice to know are sodium and boron. You're looking for .5-3% sodium (on the base saturation test) and trace amounts of boron. If you're growing good crops (trees, shrubs, etc.), you probably don't have an issue with these, but if you're having any issues, it might be a place to look. These are all minor issues. Overall, your soil looks excellent and I'd trade with you in a heartbeat. |
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| Two things that are not indicated on your soil test that would be nice to know are sodium and boron. The sum of K, Ca, and Mg is 100%. That makes hydrogen, aka acidity, effectively 0 (flash back to an earlier thread). Same can be said of sodium. Boron? Tough to say. Since it often exists predominantly as boric acid, it won't really show up as a part of the base saturation. One other thing to consider regarding nutrient status in this particular case is that University of Main uses a modified Morgan extraction which is specifically for acid soils. When run on alkaline soils like you there, you can get some "junk" numbers, particularly in regards to phosphorous. You would be better served by a lab that runs tests specifically for alkaline soils. I would look to the southwest for labs. Also, >11% o.m. is pretty high. I wouldn't add any more. |
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- Posted by fortyonenorth (My Page) on Wed, Dec 14, 11 at 7:32
| Great point re: different labs/different tests/different numbers. Also, kudos for pointing out that there IS such a thing as too much OM. There are a lot of voices that preach OM, manures, composts, etc. as a panacea--i.e. "the more, the better." But, as you pointed out, this is simply not the case. |
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- Posted by tropical_thought San Francisco (My Page) on Wed, Dec 14, 11 at 9:29
| To Fortyonenorth: I love compost, but it is possible to put too much compost in and have worse results. But, the cure is to stop adding compost for a short time and your soil will go back to normal. Also manaures raise the sodium level. I don't use them. |
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| Some soil scientists think levels of Iron is soil below 3.0 ppm is low while others don't get too concerned until this micro nutrient test somewhat lower. Organic matter in soils should be in the 5 to 8 percent range but I would not be overly concerned about 11 percent. I would get concerned when the amount of organic matter in my soil started to slow drainage. Overall your soils test results look very good, I would simply try to maintain them. Every soil test that I have seen over many years tells the recipient to add about 2 pounds of actual Nitrogen per 1,000 square feet. More than likely something that is unnecessary. Since I have never followed that recommendation, in 40 plus years here, and have not had any plant problems I would guess you need not do that either. |
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| Some soil scientists think levels of Iron is soil below 3.0 ppm is low while others don't get too concerned until this micro nutrient test somewhat lower. Is that 3.0 ppm via saturated media extract, DTPA extraction, modified Morgan, Potassium chloride, Mehlich 3, quadruple ammonium acetate or ....... My point being, you have to look at a lot of things before saying "too high" or "too low". Having a magic ppm level for a particular element and applying it to every soil extracted every which way is utterly useless. |
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| Fortyonenorth, could you tell me if adding copper sulfate would give any appreciable yield? I'm not against adding it but I won't to be sensible about it. I also worry about over applying something I know nothing about. I'm thinking the amount were are talking about wouldn't cost too much. According to the "normal" amount found in soil as indicated on my test., I'm in the optimum level. I realize too my zinc is elevated (compared to "normal"). The only other place I can find cu 1/2 of z in on "soil minerals" site. I also wonder if when I get the pH down if more will be available. I'm not saying you are wrong, please don't take it that way... Just trying to understand. |
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| gargwarb, as far as OM I guess I get to let this batch cure for a while :) I also DID think I was getting na and b. my paperwork has conflicting information... Next test I'll get them done for sure. Re test methodology- Ph in water and Mehlich buffer, available nutrients by modified morgan extract. organic matter measured by LOI, P determined colormetrically, and all others by ICP-OES. Also my soil wasn't alkaline before I started... got too heavy handed with woodash I suppose. also used some lime too... |
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| tropical thought, I haven't used manure either... I have used yard waste compost from town, My home made compost, and leaves to add organic matter... More because it was free, and less weed seeds, than for salt levels. |
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| Kimmsr, First and foremost, I want to thank you for advocating having soil tests done before adding x, y, or z nutrients. As you've said the money is better spent to KNOW rather than guess. And you are right about the generic N recommendment. However, I did get a hand written note that stated with my OM level, I may need little if any N, depending on how much was in my compost. Also said to go easy on compost this year, and that leaves were a good source of OM that wouldn't overload nutrients. |
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| I started working this 900 sq foot plot 2 springs ago. the grass wasn't growing good on part of it, the rest overgrown with burdock with bamboo creeping in. it was infilled lot gravelly fill covered with clay. Grey stiff clay... I started by picking up the mess, burning some dried weeds, picking up rocks and such... I ran a tiller over it for a few hours, grabbed a spade, and commenced to dig. I made several trips to the towns compost pile... maybe 10 loads the first year. tilled it in as deep as I could get it. grew some veggies... was happy for first year. added about 10 more loads of compost and planted 1/2 to peas and lentils and other half to winter rye. more compost including my own the next year... fish meal/ greensand/ wood ash/ lime too. the "dirt" is now dark crumbly soil. really happy with the quality and quantity of food. then decided I better stop buying amendments without a test. so here I am. |
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| P determined colormetrically, and all others by ICP-OES. Yep, those are common ways to measure the nutrients in your extract solution. For example, you can get your micros via, dtpa extraction, ammonium acetate extraction, Mehlich 3 extraction, etc. but you would measure the amounts extract via ICP, regardless. It's the method used to get the extract solution that makes the difference. |
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- Posted by fortyonenorth (My Page) on Sun, Dec 18, 11 at 21:57
| Fortyonenorth, could you tell me if adding copper sulfate would give any appreciable yield? What does your lab recommend as target value for copper? My lab's (Logan Labs) recommendation is 3-5 ppm. Neil Kinsey, in his book "Hands-On Agronomy" recommends the same. To get to 3 ppm from .53 ppm, you're looking at adding roughly 6 oz. of copper sulfate (25% Cu). The only wildcard is *how* your lab is testing and whether the values are comparable. |
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- Posted by fortyonenorth (My Page) on Mon, Dec 19, 11 at 8:08
| I should have been more specific - that 6 oz. applies to your 900 sq. ft. plot. |
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| Ok so after the holidays I called the extension service and started asking questions.... The woman I spoke to said most of my questions were above her head... referred me to the guy that actually did the test. Let me tell you, he was MORE than willing to talk to me and make suggestions. As to the extract solution, they use ammonium acetate at 4.8 pH. P and K are actual P and k. As far as target values- Phosphorous 20-40 lbs/A I also asked if when I brought the pH back in line if micro would increase in availability linearly or if some would move more than others... he said iron more than likely would still be deficient. He recommended greensand for Iron. I asked about having excessive potassium already and was told not to be too concerned as greensand wasn't all that strong.He also recommended the wait and see approach to adding any N till I saw whether or not it would be needed. So any further thoughts? It takes a village to raise a child, or an I-village to raise a garden... ha ha |
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| would you get pH down and retest? |
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- Posted by wbonesteel 7b (My Page) on Wed, Jan 11, 12 at 23:53
| I'm just now looking at soil tests, myself. The wife and I retired and relocated to Oklahoma within the last year. The lot at our 'new' home has clay...and nothin' but clay. A few trees still need to be removed, but otherwise, it was a blank slate...and a very desperate landscape. I spent most of the summer working on a landscape design and working amendments into the soil - by hand - to a depth of ten to twelve inches. Although I'm far from finished with this stage of the operation, the most recent compost amendment has turned the soil a dark, rich, crumbly brown - almost black. (Yes, I added lots and lots of sand.) Now that I've managed to get it all loosened up, a visit to the county extension office for a soil test is on the calendar for the first of next month. I have some experience at this sort of thing, though. Several years of landscaping with over fourten years of buildings and grounds maintenance and management help me to avoid some of the worst mistakes that people often make. The difference is, this time, I'm working on an edible landscape, with over 2,400 sq ft of beds... Working on your own landscape, the trick is to not become impatient. Add one type of amendment at a time - and wait a week - or more - before adding another. Once or twice a month, turn it all over and ...wait... Let it compost 'in situ' and allow nature to take its course. At one point, I waited almost two months before I added anything else. Emotionally, I really, *really* wanted to start installing my major plants last spring and this fall...but I've waited until the soil told me when it was just about ready. We all know what the 'before' pic would look like (it's not soil, it's brick that hasn't been fired, yet), so a pic of 'after' is linked below. I've let it sit for about a week and a half, now. I'm going to start adding some cotton burr mulch to all of it, next...after I see what the soil tests tell me ...before I do too much else. |
Here is a link that might be useful: After amendments.
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- Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on Sat, Jan 14, 12 at 10:12
| What patience! For heavy soil, I always advise adding several inches of mulch to the soil surface after all that work: induces good habitat for soil creatures and eases water loss. I take it the ground drains reasonably well and you are not creating pits in the country clay to hold water? |
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- Posted by wbonesteel 7 (My Page) on Sat, Jan 14, 12 at 13:33
| Marshall, if your comment was directed at me, I starting adding soil amendments within a month of when I broke ground on this project. Most of it has 'composted in situ' for the last six to seven months. As an idea of how much organic material I've added to the front garden, I've just moved nearly five yards of amended dirt to fill in low spots in the back yard. (The landscaping in the back is still a disaster area.) I also added a couple of tons of sand to the front garden, but only after I had mixed in quite a bit organics, first. It's worked out quite nicely, so far. When the mud on my boots dries, it now looks like dark chocolate...instead of dried baby poop. I'm taking my time on this project. Besides, the budget won't *let* me hurry...and I'd probably kill myself if I tried to rush it. (Health is an issue, here.)
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| any other thoughts people? |
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| wbonesteel - that's some awesome design work and no small amount of labor - really inspiring. You clearly have some experience behind you and a great sense of what you want to create jon - I think given the results of your test, you should be preparing to start planting, and do a follow-up test in late spring/ early summer if you want to adjust further. Most of your readings seem to be in a workable range - it's time to start producing some food and documenting the results in the real world so you can afford that hoop house before fall. You can tweak your soil endlessly towards some hypothetical ideal, the bottom line is, most plants just want to grow. Don't sacrifice the good for the sake of an always elusive perfection. |
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