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Sun, Dec 4, 11 at 12:08
| So I have read that to use manure, it should be aged so that it doesnt burn your plants. But by some accounts, I have read it should be aged for a couple of years. Does this apply if it has been mixed in to a compost pile? My hope is to get a few truck loads from a local farm ,(this is pretty fresh manure), mix it in with all the bagged leaves i have pilfered from my neibours curb, add the UCGs Ive been storing and compost it over the winter, but if this isnt long enough, i dont want to mess up my beds in the spring. Any thoughts from those in the know would be greatly appreciated.
dave |
Follow-Up Postings:
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| The reason "aged manure" is used is so it will not burn your crops. Any manure that is aged for 6 months is safe. I was raised on a farm & chicken is the worse when fresh. It is high in nitrogen & ammonia, composting will break down these & any harmful bacteria in 6 months. Rabbit has more nitrogen then poultry, but does not burn as easy, because of it's make up. I compost every manure, even aged manure, so I have a good even mix for the garden. The rule of thumb is to put green manure out in the garden 120 day before harvesting crops. You should turn green manures under or compost them, if you have a no till garden. I would not use cat & dog manure at all. So rabbit ,then chicken,sheep,steer,horse,duck,cow & pig manure for nitrogen. Then second reason for composting manures is that it will help to break down every thing in your compost pile faster. Leaves, UCG, kitchen scraps will work great with green(fresh) manures. I have a friend with a ranch, that gives me manure & I get the fresh, not the year old stuff. |
Here is a link that might be useful: animal manure
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| Cheers for that....some "food" for thought. I guess if I start these bins now, they should be fine to put on the beds when I start to put them to winter bed as it were. |
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| "Burning" of plants by applying fresh manure would be of much less concern to me then the potential for diseases that fresh manures may contain. Manure should be aged before use but 2 years would be way too long, 90 to 120 days probably is a better time frame. However, simply piling manure up and allowing it to sit for any period of time is a waste because the odors produced indicate the loss of valuable nutrients. Composting manure, mixing it 1 part manure to 3 oarts vegetative waste, can help hold those nutrients where they can be of more use to plants. Poultry (chicken, turkey, duck) manure has more readily available Nitrogen, along with horse manure, and they are considered hot manures. Cattle, sheep, goat, rabbit manures have less readily available Nitrogen and those are considered cold manures. |
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| So if Im reading this right, composting it doesnt really speed up the time that you can safely spread it on your beds. |
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- Posted by toxcrusadr (My Page) on Mon, Dec 5, 11 at 16:46
| Well, I guess the answer is no, but composting is actually what is happening when it's sitting there becoming safe, and in fact is the process that is responsible for that, so you can't really separate the two. What kimmsr is saying is right, if there is not enough high-carbon browns available, a pile of fresh manure will compost but will waste some of its nitrogen in the process. |
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| The disease pathogens that are present in all manures need relatively high temperatures as well as time to die, so composting will not change the time that manures can be spread on the garden. Many people think they have not ever been sick from the diseases present in manures, but most likely those with the 24, 48, or 72 hour "flu" probably had gastroenteritis from these disease pathogens, food poisoning. |
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| If we are talking about using manures for producing food for human consumption, according to NOP guidelines, thermophilic composting will destroy the pathogens and allow a person to use the resulting material without a long period of time (could be as short as 3 days under certain conditions). Raw manures (not composted as per NOP guidelines) can be used if incorporated into the soil and the "prior to harvest" timelines are met. There are other "guidelines" out there that cut a little slack but the NOP are the most stringent (ergo probably the safest) I've seen. Lloyd |
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- Posted by toxcrusadr (My Page) on Tue, Dec 6, 11 at 11:37
| kimmsr, are you saying that if a manure pile does not heat up (let's say it's spread out and allowed to age and doesn't get hot), that pathogens will still be high? I assumed the aerobic conditions would knock them down with or without heat, but maybe that was just an assumption. |
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| Second with Lloyd. Fresh manures or urine (animals or human) can be used if incorporated into the soil, but not in direct contact with plant roots, and then covered by a thin layer (1" is ok) of soil. This, I found, is the most efficient way of fully utilizing the nutrients. Of course this involves hard manual labor. |
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| It depends on which disease pathogen somewhat, but as a rule you need temperatures above 135 degrees to kill most of those pathogens. I've never had a problem getting my compost to reach those temperatures unless I wet the material too much. |
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| Joe Jenkins explains pathogen destruction very well. Lloyd |
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| Thanks everyone for your input. As a resource, this site never ceases to amaze me. The sheer volume of well sourced information is astounding. |
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| Thanks Lloyd. You are the master composter. I have read that time & temperate are the way to safe compost from many sources, but Mr. Jenkins is a new one. |
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| I don't write this stuff jolj, it is waaayyy above my education level. However, I think most people can figure this stuff out given a link to good information from a credible source. Lloyd |
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- Posted by farming4christ none (My Page) on Fri, Dec 23, 11 at 8:47
| I added plenty of composted horse manure to my fall and spring garden last year. At least the guy tells me it was composted for three years. It looked like really good stuff, however in the spring i had a terrible time with crab grass growing in my gardens. This year I will be mixing in fresh manure and shreaded leaves in my garden in the fall. I figured why pay good money for what was suppose to be composted horse manure when i can get free fresh horse manure. |
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| Ya, to some people "composted" really means "sat for a long time". Most organisations that have any kind of authority or standards have a definition of composting that includes a thermophilic phase. There is a greater likelihood of importing unwanted stuff without a thermophilic phase. Lloyd |
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- Posted by strobiculate none (My Page) on Fri, Dec 23, 11 at 13:57
| Each year, we clean out the barns and the liquid pit and spread it on the fields, plowing it over. The vast majority of our livestock is beef and dairy; we occasionally keep a few chicks or a goat for the kids or a hog for a BBQ. We even spread on alfalfa, primarily the liquid, but are careful about the amount and timing. But honestly, after doing it for years, we don't think about it any more, we just know what times are too late or just right. We actually have a harder time keeping track of townships and whatever new regulations they pass, even in a county where the average population density is about five people per square mile and fifty cattle, and you have to drive thirty miles to find a stop light. I still judge towns as being large if they have a stop light and don't permit four wheelers, snowmobiles, and tractors to park in front of the bars. The good thing about most of the pathogens present in manures: They are easily killed, by heat, or the lack of a suitable host, or just generally exposure, which most generally means the common uv radiation a bright sunny day affords. |
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| Ok, so I have a question. I have a pile of goat stall cleanings - straw/hay/goat pooh. We just started this pile in August and have been adding to it each month. It's rather large and about 3 feet deep. My question is, will this be "ready" to put into beds in the springtime, considering its sitting outside all winter? I know the internal temp will rise and kill some things, but what about the outside layers? Don't know how many chances I'll have to get out there (weather depending) to do any turning of the pile. Thanks. :) |
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| hengal, whether your pile will be ready in the spring or not depends on too many factors for anyone ot be able to tell. What is the ratio of manure to vegetative waste? What kind of temperatures has the pile been able to maintain? Was the pile turned and how often? Tuening, remixing, will help move the material on the outside of the pile to the center where the bacteria are most active and where the highest temperatures will be, so how active are you in the compost making process? |
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| I've not been active in the compost making process. In the past I've just piled up chicken coop cleanings and dried leaves and let it all sit until it all broke down - which on it's own was over a year. It was wonderful stuff to use. This is my first time with anything else and right now is just a big pile. The only thing I can say for sure is that I have not been out there to turn it. We have gotten so much rain this fall that I'm sure it's got to be just soaked. The ratio of manure to straw/hay is probably 30/70 maybe? |
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| Hi hengal, your time problem with turning compost is why I just till it into beds & much with leave. I never plant quick crops like radishes( which can grow 10 months here) in a fresh manured bed. I keep a empty bed to put the manure in, or cut it in in the Fall, 60 days or so before planting winter crops. |
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