|
| Hi all,
Thanks in advance for any advice concerning these results. I have been searching this site and others to help me understand my soil results, but now I am just going to go straight to you guys to see what you think. My head is spinning with trying to understand how all the data is interrelated. This was my first year in a new house. The garden beds are new this year and they have flowers and shrubs in them.
I added what little compost I had this fall (after getting soil samples), and hope to add more in the spring (even if I have to buy it). I also laid down a layer of shredded leaves. My plants this summer showed what looked like iron chlorosis, is this possible with these results or is it something else? The phosphorus looks so low should I add something beside compost? The facility suggested dried blood, bone meal and peat moss. Would bone meal affect the already high CA? I was going to ignore the peat moss altogether, and instead focus on other organic materials additions. Any suggestions you have are appreciated. Soil ph 6.9
NO3-N 5 ppm
P 12 ppm
B 0.7 ppm
|
Follow-Up Postings:
|
| Chlorosis of plants, yellowing of leaves, has many causes, low levesl of Nitrogen, Potassium, Magnesium, Zinc, Iron, Sulfur, Boron, Manganese, or Molybdenum, or something in too great amounts that interferes with a plants ability to properly utilize one of those. Your humus level is almost where it should be at 5.1 percent, you want between 6 and 8 percent, and I have seen soils balance the nutrients simply by adding organic matter to that soil, compost, the leaves that fall from trees every year, yard waste, as well as cover cropping. I'd concentrate on getting the humus level of the soil up and see what another soil test shows later. |
|
| Weebay, you're fooling around with matters that you don't understand. Evidently someone spoke to you about the area's soil containing lead. First thing you should have done is find out what having lead in your soil means. Is it dangerous, can you grow plants, (including foodstuffs) in soil containing it and at what levels is it dangerous. I assme the area is naturally (or from a particular cause) with higher lead levels than other areas. That can happen. As far as chlorosis in plants, that condition can come from many sources...including low light levels. If the area is devoid of decent sunlight,low level of photosynthesis is not letting the plants take in oxygen and moisture level sufficiently. I think you are reading too much into a soil test done on practically new soil. Getting a soil test done by a lab in a distant community poses no danger to bad test results as long as the proper amounts of soil were given to be tested. Soil tests are performed by taking many samples from many areas--not just one. The combination readings then gives a more thorough result mirrowing the soil all around you. When you combine other materials into soil to plant in, be sure to mix well--but not too much. The soil you have is the soil your plants must thrive in. Plants will adjust to what soil they are given as long as it doesn't contain harmful elements. The lead should pose no threat to anything you grow. As for how your garden is growing...how is your neighbors' gardens growing....do they also experience what you have concerns about. |
|
- Posted by steve_mass 5b (My Page) on Sun, Dec 5, 10 at 15:50
| I'm no expert at reading these things, but I don't see any reference to lead in the posted results. Does anyone else see it? |
|
| Hi, Thanks for the advice Kimmsr. That's what I was thinking. I left the lead info out because it was for my own info, not particularly regarding the plants. I was just telling you all to explain why I got the soil test out of area. Since you want to know why I was interested in lead it is because my home is old, built in 1903, new to me not newly built. I am concerned with lead and children, not lead and me. I have friends whose children have high lead levels and are monitored by the health dept. I wanted to know which areas of my yard might be a concern for them and other children. Really the lead wasn't my concern with the plants. For vegetables I am going to use raised beds. I probably shouldn't have mentioned it, but there you go. . . I had read that soil labs use different types of methodologies sometimes on acid rather that akaline soil, I thought some of the knowledgeable folks around here might be interested that I got the test out of area and it might have some sort of basis on the result interpretation. I didn't think it would matter that much that is why I did it, but others might disagree. Sorry for the confusion, my soil is not 'new'. I am in quite an old neighborhood If anyone has any other advice concerning the rest of my results I would be happy to hear it. |
|
| Your iron is pretty low at less than 1.0 ppm. Based on your CEC I'd say you would probably be better off with iron somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 to 60 ppm. The low iron along with symptoms of iron chlorosis (I'm assuming that your seeing interveinal yellowing, beginning with the youngest foliage) would add up together quite nicely. Your manganese is also a tad on the low side but not terribly so. But if you boost the iron and the plants don't respond, give manganese a whirl. Copper is also low but I can't remember the last time I saw copper deficiency in a mineral soil, only containers. Nitrate looks low but nitrogen status is tricky. (and it doesn't address ammonium) I'd say, if nitrogen hasn't been added for a while, you could probably use some. Phosphorous looks low. The amount of phosphorous you get out of your compost will depend on the kind of compost and how much you apply. You may or may not need another phosphorous source. Potassium is what I would call high-optimum for your soil. Calcium and magnesium both look fine to me and I wouldn't worry about them. The amount of calcium you get with bonemeal shouldn't hurt anything though, if you want to go that route. They don't mention salinity level but the fact that you got a goose egg for exchangeable sodium makes me want to guess that salinity isn't going to be an issue for you. And of course, with an ESP (exchangeable sodium percentage) of zero, sodium won't have a negative effect on soil structure. At 5.1%, I would say that you're firmly in the optimum range for organic matter but if you you want to add compost, that would be fine. My 2 cents. |
|
| When I get a soil test here from the University of Maine's Extension Service, I'm able to request organic recommendations, and I get very specific organic instructions on how to improve my soil. My soil test will advise me, say, to add 20 bushels of sheep manure or 15 bushels of cow manure. I was recommended to amend with high magnesium lime one time. Another time, in a different place, I was advised to lay off the wood ashes. There is no test result for which I can't get an organic recommendation. |
|
| Thanks Gargwarb, your 2 cents is very helpful. Annpat, I guess their organic suggestions were the blood and bone meal? Are you saying I should have specifically asked for organic amendments? That's good to know that you can do that. This past summer I fertilized with fish/ seaweed emulsion and at times when I had it I mixed some molasses into it. I read that molasses could help with the iron. I don't think I used it enough to see any noticeable results. What would be an organic source of Manganese? It sounds from what you all are saying that I'll stick to adding some compost in the spring, and maybe step up fertilizing with some molasses added into the seaweed as well, and skip the bone and blood meal. |
|
| "What would be an organic source of Manganese?" Plant Nutrients in Municipal Leaves Lloyd |
|
| For manganese, you'll likely get some from your compost. As with all the nutrients, the amount will vary from one compost to the next. You'll probably get relatively low amounts though, and it will likely take a few applications to make a significant difference. If iron doesn't help and you really want to give the plants a shot of manganese, it's tough to find a good organic source. That's why OMRI (organic materials review institute) allows chelated manganese with a documented deficiency of that nutrient. Whether you want to use chelates or not is up to you but I would try plan A first and if you don't have success, cross that bridge when you get to it. (My money is on iron deficiency) |
|
| Oops, sorry Lloyd. Didn't mean to step all over your post. You got that one in there while a was slowly mashing around on my keyboard over my first cup of coffee. |
|
| No worry mate. I wouldn't know manganese if it bit me in the leg. Your posts are far more helpful to the specific issues, I just posted a link to information I use (even though I really don't know what it all means). :-) Lloyd |
|
| Lloyd, Thanks for that link. Very interesting from my perspective. |
|
| Thanks to both of you. Lloyd that article was very helpful. I love getting new sources of good info. I wish I was able to snag more leaves this fall, I also wish I lived in a city where they would collect, shred and dump them in your yard, what a gift! |
|
| Here is the grass FS if you're interested. Nutrient Management of Land Applied Grass Clippings Lloyd |
|
| "Application at this rate, which is equivalent to approximately 800 cubic yards/acre or 20 tons/acre of dry matter, will increase soil organic matter content, and improve soil tilth and water holding capacity. A chemical analysis of 100 municipal leaf samples collected from across New Jersey shows that leaves are a valuable source of all crop nutrients (Table 1). Although nutrient concentration values vary considerably, the application of 20 ton/acre of leaves would add on average 400 pounds of nitrogen, 40 pounds of phosphorus, and 152 pounds of potassium. Assuming values of $.30/pound N, $.23/pound P, and $.18/pound K, the nutrients from this example are worth $156.56. Application of leaves at 20 ton/acre would also add on average 656 pounds of calcium, 96 pounds of magnesium, 44 pounds of sulfur, 1.5 pounds of boron, 58 pounds of iron, 22 pounds of manganese, 50 pounds of chloride, 4 pounds of sodium, 0.3 pounds of copper, and 3 pounds of zinc." ..... from Rutgers link......... Help me analyze this.... because this link is talking about leaves... 800CY = 20 ton |
|
| Ya that is an issue as your score would also have had water added therefore would not be dry weight either. I speculate that the leaves, as tested by Rutgers, would have been shredded or compressed by the municipal government to some degree in order to cut the cost of transportation to the farmers field. When I try to figure out the 'compost equivalent', I generally ignore the weight and use a 10:1 volume reduction factor on the shredding/compacting of the leaves and then a 2:1 (or 50%) volume reduction for the composting. I know it isn't exact but I have to start somewhere. Does that make sense??!! Lloyd |
|
| It does make sense Lloyd. I do not have a history of experience with that shrink from newly fallen leaves to composted leaves. You see what stage I get mine at. If I get 15 loads time I grind them out and get them thru the screener I will only haul out 10-11, throw 1 away as overs with trash, sticks, few rocks and just lose the rest thru futher compaction. Hauling out a 20+ yd load finished, the truck is carrying noticible more weight than when coming in. My view to the Rutgers article on net value of nutrient/minerals is my itch today. They used 1998 costs. Searching US Gov fertilizer pricing index looks down from 2 years ago but still nearly 100% increase from 1998. Compost has a net real worth. But I went to the same school as Jethro Bodine (Beverly Hillbillies) ...so naught + naught = NAUGHT. Just wondering what cost of nutrients stand alone would be. Still, interesting article raises a tangible question. |
|
| For me it is also a question of just how much of the nutrients I'm putting into my farm fields. I do not want to overapply so I also have to attempt to ball park the stuff harvested (grain and straw) against what I think I'm putting in. I know I'm not exact but I have to start somewhere. Instead of synthetics I use yard trimmings as my "fertilizer". Like Jethro, my "gazintas" are shakey at best. ;-) For the finished compost, I just use ranges of tested compost I can find online, close enough for me but I should really get a batch tested one of these years. Lloyd |
|
| Manganese: Simple (and relatively cheap) and certainly easy method is Olive Oil... and no you don't have to buy Extra Virgin, in fact better not to. Other than that I think everyone has about covered it for you. oh and btw, I would be more worried about lead PAINT than lead in your garden in a house that oild! |
|
| My house is over 100 years old and the soil near it is heavily lead contaminated from the paint. Lead paint is not an issue if it's stuck to the house: it's a problem when it's scraped, sanded, or flakes onto the soil. Luckily I've got 'clean' areas to grow edibles and since plants don't care about lead, I can grow ornamentals in the rest.
|
Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum. If you are a member, please log in. If you aren't yet a member, join now!
Return to the Soil Forum
Instructions
- You must be a registered member and logged in to post messages on our forums.
- Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review the contents and make changes.
- After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
- It is illegal to post copyrighted material without the owner's consent.
- HTML codes are allowed in the message field only.
- No advertising is allowed in any of the forums.
- If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
- If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.