JOIN NOW LOG IN
iVillage GardenWeb iVillage GardenWeb THE INTERNET'S GARDEN & HOME COMMUNITY ADVERTISEMENT
Blogs Forums Photo Galleries Ask The Experts Tools & Directories        
Return to the Greenhouses & Garden Structures Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Converting a shed to a GH using old windows in Tx

Posted by jennholly tx 8 (My Page) on
Thu, Apr 30, 09 at 20:10

Hi, y'all. I've been away from GW for toooo long.

I've been reading through so many of these wonderful posts and getting great ideas. I hope I'm not asking the same ol' questions.

What I have and want: I have a home-built, 10x10 (roughly) metal shed that I want to convert it to a GH using reclaimed windows. I want to use it for seed starting and winter protection for herbs/veggies (if possible). I don't want to run electricity out there.

Environment: I'm 1/2 way between College Station and Houston, so we get pretty darn warm, and it gets fairly windy, esp. with the storms we've been having. We have a few freezes and frosts during the winter, but nothing like snow.

So my questions:

1. Terminology - If I don't have electricity out there, is it considered a coldframe? Would it be using passive-solar heating?

2. Strength - How do I tell if the structure is sturdy enough to support windows instead of metal sheets?

3. Tin Roof - Would it's current tin roof get too cold in winter, or too hot in summer? Or would it help keep it from getting too hot in summer?

4. Window type - While "window shopping" at Habitat for Humanity, I've gotten different advice to using double-glass (insulated?) vs single pane. Could someone with experience explain pros and cons in layman's terms to me?

5. Flooring - It currently has a raised wooden floor. I'd rather not have to look at what is under it (copperhead den?). Is it possible to leave it? Should I put tile or pavers on it, or would that just trap water in there? Perhaps linoleum or vinyl flooring would be better?

I really appreciate any help! I know I'll make mistakes, but I'd love to learn from your experiences.


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Converting a shed to a GH using old windows in Tx

Although I can't answer all your questions, I can tell you that our metal shed here in So. Nevada gets really toasty when the sun is shining directly on it. It does also get cold to the touch in the winter, but doesn't hold the cold. So you may need to insulate the remaining walls/roof that do not get replaced with windows.

Ours also has the wooden floor and I think pavers would just create places for moisture to rot the floor. The linoleum may work if you can figure out a way to get it to drain properly.


 o
RE: Converting a shed to a GH using old windows in Tx

Thanks, Hilery. I didn't think about the drainage aspect with the linoleum. I've never worked with a greenhouse, and I've never seen how wet they get.

I'm attempting to post a "before" picture of said scary shed.


 o
RE: Converting a shed to a GH using old windows in Tx

I wish I had an old shed to convert! What a fun project (hard work but satisfying); I wish you luck!


 o
RE: Converting a shed to a GH using old windows in Tx

Why not replace the corrugated metal with corrugated polycarbonate? It would be easier than installing windows. Your studs will need to be 24 inch centers. Put cross members between studs and you should be in good shape. Get an inexpensive kerosene heater as a heat supplement. You will need it one night.


 o
RE: Converting a shed to a GH using old windows in Tx

Just wanted to give an update and a picture.

This morning, I found eleven 24 inch doors with glass panels, and the renovation began.

I'm trying to decide whether to paint them or not before I install them, as I'm on a time schedule to get the thing into the shape of a building instead of 10.000 pieces laying all over the yard. Painting first would make me miss my deadline which would be dreadfully inconvenient; painting later would just be a little more difficult.

I'm still not sure how I'm going to attach the doors. I am thinking that I will screw a 2x4 or 2x6 to the base of the shed, perpendicular to the ground, then set the doors the top edge of that board and then screw the doors onto the frame (predrilling holes, of course).

I'll also need to do something about the floor - it's raised plywood, but it is not in as good shape as it was 10 years ago. I'm quite afraid of what is under the floor, so I don't want to rip it up (I'm thinking copperhead den). I wonder if I can just float a new layer of plywood on it, with vinyl or linoleum on top? I could then squeegee out any puddles after watering.

Yes, a little more time-intensive, but I do NOT want to see what is under that floor!!!

Side view of the building previously known as "scary shed."


 o
RE: Converting a shed to a GH using old windows in Tx

Nice find with those 11 French doors - lots of potential, considering they're all identical. To my eye though - it seems that the combination of those 4 - 24" wide door panels may be slightly too wide for the shed's inside wall opening - which (contrary to the 10' x 10' shed size noted in the OP) appears to be about 6'-0 + -, outside frame dimension.

If that's the case, there are several options you need to decide upon before installing the doors.

Consider removing all existing studs from the southern wall - leaving just the corners. If you try to work around what's there, the units will not be aligned with the vertical supports.

There's a diagonal brace which should also be removed - a structural alternative would be to install steel angels at each of the 4 wall corners. Considering the high winds in your area - this is necessary to prevent the shed (future cold frame) from racking.

Also consider using just three doors - perhaps on the two sides facing south and west. This will allow for re-framing the walls with a 2x4 stud BETWEEN each panel, providing better support for the panels and for the roof rafter plate. The space remaining at each side can be filled with new 2x4s or framing pieces removed from the existing walls.

For a finished look and to seal out the elements, apply 1x2 wood strips over the vertical door seams and cornerboards, along with horizontal trim at the top and bottom (facia + watertable).

The panels appear to be taller than the inside wall opening. You could install the units on the outside of the floor deck and extend the face of studs between each unit to be flush with the exterior. Or, use 2x6 studs which have been notched so 2" overlaps the deck - thereby providing lateral support for the units. There's some concern though with the door's bottom rails being too close to the ground - vulnerable to rot and insect infestation, among other concerns.

This could be a fun project - and depending upon how well you plan and detail the panel installation, could serve your needs very well for some time. So much more to think about and I'd like to help you more, just don't have the time right now, being at my office.


 o
RE: correction - on shed dimension

jenn,
After re-reading my post - I discovered that in my haste, I meant to note the outside width of the wall shown, should read 8'-0 +-, not 6'-0. The wall however, is still not wide enough for 4 doors to fit between the corner stud assemblies.


 o
RE: Converting a shed to a GH using old windows in Tx

Great observations, archdiver. Thank you for taking the time to read and comment!

You are correct - the shed is 8 ft sq. The panels would be attached externally, not in between the studs. I just bought some treated wood to create a lateral support for them so they will not be touching the ground.

There is enough clearance under the eaves for the panels- the picture does not show it well.

I am intersted in steel angels though - I had not thought of that (and I'm not really sure what they are). I'd love to get rid of the current braces. Is that something I would need to do before putting the doors up?

(off to google steel angels...)


 o
RE: Converting a shed to a GH using old windows in Tx

I sometimes type so fast, my mind glosses right over the typos . . . I meant angles, not angels :) Essentially a bent steel plate to form 2 legs of a right angle. They're typically bolted to the inside corners with a triangular web section welded to each inside leg - very simple to make.

It may be over-engineered for your purpose, but I think it's important with all that glass. A local welder could fabricate them, if you choose to add them. Otherwise there are many other creative means and methods.


 o
RE: Converting a shed to a GH using old windows in Tx

Thanks!
I think I've seen them without the webbing on the side. Would they be used with one "leg" on the horizontal piece (parallel to the ground) and one on the horizontal support (perpindiuclar to the ground)? Like an L?

(I think I have one around here somewhere, so I might just take a picture to demonstrate....)


 o
RE: Converting a shed to a GH using old windows in Tx

Most off-the-shelf L-brackets lack the strength for resisting bending moments caused by the high winds - typical to your region. By removing the wood diagonal bracing and not replacing with something else, worse case scenario is - the structure could collapse like a house of cards. At the least, cracks may occur on a few of your glass panes.

An alternative would be to fasten L-plates (similar to steel framing squares) to the exterior or interior face of the 4 framing corners. Or, secure diagonal tension cables with turnbuckles within the wall opening - forming an X. Installing the cables below a 30" high plant shelf, would make them less conspicuous.


 o
RE: Converting a shed to a GH using old windows in Tx

Depending on how much time you have, you could remove the middle studs and replace them with longer ones, set in concrete. Then screw the windows to the studs and the studs to the top rafter and the cross tie. That would help with sealing the building as well as make it wind-resistant. If you bury a 4x4 post 18-24" deep, it would take a huge amount of wind to fell it. Plus, all the doors do not need to open, only enough to allow you to get in and out, as well as allow ventilation in warmer weather.

As for copperheads, if they are there, I would want to know about it and remove them. I would think the last thing you would want to do is bend over to tend a plant and have a snake craw up your pants.

Mike


 o
RE: Converting a shed to a GH using old windows in Tx

Mike, you have a good point about the copperheads.*shudder* I'm hoping increased traffic in the area will encourage them to move out on their own. My snake dog and I are diligently watching for signs of them.

I'm attaching a link to the progress I've made so far; the doors are screwed onto the frame, and I have not braced the tops yet, and of course, I haven't trimmed the building out.

My plan for the area above the walls in the front and back is not going to work, so I'm fishing for ideas.

I know it's not quite pretty yet, but it's getting there....

Here is a link that might be useful: Greenhouse in construction


 o
RE: Converting a shed to a GH using old windows in Tx

Jenn,

I would remove the roof and replace it with some GH covering. You are losing a huge amount of sunlight. I got some 12-mil woven covering from Farm-Tek that lets in about 70 percent of the light. 11-foot wide is about $2.43 per linear foot so it would not cost much. I attached mine onto the roof rafters using lath. It is extremely strong and should last for four years or more.

Mike


 o
RE: Converting a shed to a GH using old windows in Tx

Interesting idea, Mike. Do you have a picture of it?
Do you think it would be durable enough for the windy storms we get out here?

I had planned to keep the roof for shade in summer - it gets quite hot, and our winters are relatively mild. However, I do need something for above the walls in the front and back...


 o
RE: Converting a shed to a GH using old windows in Tx

Jenn,

Here's a picture from a ways back that shows the cover:

If you nail it down on rafters that are 2' off center or less, and pull it down tight, I suspect it will withstand well over 70 mph winds.

I really don't believe you need to worry about too much sun in summer. Heat, yes, but if you have doors or windows you can open and can run a fan (if necessary) the heat should not be a problem. Or at least no more of a problem than growing outside.

Mike


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Greenhouses & Garden Structures Forum
 
 


iVillage GardenWeb: The Internet's Garden & Home Community  
  iVillage Home & Garden Network