For the past few days I've been reading various forums and
doing research on a greenhouse.

Some background info...

I'm not a gardener, and I do not have a green thumb. However, I'm extremely into Health & Fitness, and natural home-grown foods can be one of the healthiest things around.

My next door neighbor is an older retired guy who has a small garden. He grows cantelope, about 5 different veggies and a grape vine rather well, in a small area.

I've always been interseted in a garden, but my fears were bugs and not being able to handle them, and lack of time to commit to it. The time issue is better now, so I am more willing to help take something like this on now.

I live in central NC, which I believe is rated as zone 7b. However, I do not know what significance this really has yet.

The reason I am interested in a greenhouse is the bug problem goes down a lot I would think, as the only main ways for them to get in is when you open the doors/vents, right? Less of a problem, right? and the fact that you can grow things around here that isn't really meant to do so (citris stuff) and grow stuff year round.

I'm interseted in all types of salad veggies, and most all types of fruit.

Here is the space in my backyard that I would like to use:
http://www.sev1.net/pic/backyard.jpg

From the picture, you are facing west in the late afternoon (4-5pmish). I would remove the 2 sheds you see and put a greenhouse in the area. This area recieves constant sunlight from morning til early afternoon, then the trees you see behind them provide shade. I believe this would easily fit the 6 hours of sunlight per day that I constantly read about. The placement, of course, could be closer to the house (I am standing in the carport in the picture) if necessary and would provide more time of direct sunlight.

what I seen I was most interested in so far was something like this:
http://www.greenhouses-etc.net/big-greenhouses/clear_view_greenhouse.htm

The size of 26'x12'x28' seems to fit this area very well I would think.

Greenhouse considerations
- drainage, this is on the downslop of a hill behind my house, good location no?
- climate controlled - yes, I totally intend to do this

I am the type of person I do not mind spending the money to make sure things are done right. Up to about 10-15k, that is.

Finally, I did mention I am not a person with a green thumb, however I am willing to learn. My neighbor, previously mentioned, is the one that would "run with" this, not me. We have chatted about it many times. He constantly says things like "it'd give him something to do" -- and I'm all for that if we can get a lot of natural food out of it.

Other things I should consider?
Do I have it all wrong and there are things I will not be able to do with this in my area?

Thanks for any input

HOLLY COW, I could get 121 container in there just using HALF THE FLOOR SPACE.

I think we could help you more if you told us exactly what you hope to grow in your GH and if you plan to use it year 'round.

We're hoping to grow some veggies over the winter since we have a much lager GH now. Last winter all I kept over were tropical plants.

Bear in mind I have no idea if some of these is possible or not, but I would ask him to be trying all of the following:

Tomoatos
Cucumbers
Artichoke
Carrots
Celery
Lettuce
Okra
Peppers
Squash

Fruits:
Blueberry
Cranberry
Grapes
Honeydew
Mango
Pear
Strawberry
Orange
Lemon

Things im not sure about:
Bananas, Pineapple

Is it even possible to grow these?

Give or take atleast 10 items, I'm open to a lot of things. I've been reading on seed sites on a lot of stuff I've never heard of that I'd also probably have him try. A lot of the fruit-type stuff seems to get really big and tall, and thus would not exactly be suitable for a GH, even a big one.

Yes, thats a lot of different stuff. He currently grows 8 different items in his small garden, so this should be enough to keep him busy.

As far as year-round use, yes, this is totally what I expected, is to use it year round, as I understand it, this would be the only way to grow a lot of the citrus type stuff, which I love.

From what I read, it seems keeping control of the climate is somewhat easier in a larger GH than a small one, because of the ceiling being so high to allow for better airflow.

My plans were to certainly have a "climate-controlled" GH, so that it could be used year round.

As mentioned, some of these are not self-pollants. There are specific flowers that could be planted nearby that could help with this though, correct?

It seems too, that my impression of a GH isn't clear. I was thinking that with a GH, you could grow things that were totally out-of-season since it would be a controlled climate.

Thanks for the responses & time.

I'm not trying to discourage you but to encourage you to do a lot of research before you lay out your hard earned cash.

If you do go ahead and things don't work out as you had hoped, you can always sell the GH or switch to tropical plants and flowers. :^)

Its a cold question I know, but I ask it in response to your confession that you are not a gardener, nor "have a green thumb".

My guess is that most of us "gh fools" involve oursleves in the things for a variety of reasons but one of them is usually simply about the passion for plants. If you are also a systems person, a builder or tinkerer as well..even better.

BUT my guess is that few folks really maintain a gh year after year JUST for the veggies or the starts or whatever. For me at least, with orchids, its as much about fiddling about in the gh, "wasting hours" for little return of monetary value and enjoyng the hell out of it.

If fighting whiteflies, paying fuel bills and always being tied to the gh in some manner (who is sitting while you are away on vacation, what do you do when the power goes out for 26 hrs straight?)sounds like some kinda fun, then go for it!

But, if not, then well?.....we raised meat and egg chickens for YEARS and loved it. Probably cost 2-3 times market price for the final product (and had to kill the flapping things oursleves to boot)....but it didn't save money.

Hey, and always remember any advice is worth what you pay for it, huh?

Steve

Before I type a big reply, I'm wanted to respond to this statement

"On the flip side, the greenhouse would be an excellant place for sub-tropical and tropical fruits like mango, citrus, banana, pineapple,etc. I have grown all of these indoors, and it is adifficult chore...with a greenhouse the possibilities are endless"

This is the kind of direction/push I was looking for. I would be perfectly happy using a greenhouse to grow only tropical type stuff-since they would require similiar climates.

One thing I have realized is that I am talking about a lot of different things and these things require different climates (chilling requirement) -- If I can focus on a small portion of this (and I'm totally sold on tropical stuff like bananas and pineapple) then something like this should be plausible. A small subset like that would require a smaller GH too.

I'm not in it for the money, I'm in it for the "healthiness" of the foods. I'm also trying to "get my feet wet"

Thanks

The best hobbies are those that seem outwardly simple, but have layers of complexity one can grow into. Gardening fits this premise very well.

Perhaps ask your neighbor what their thoughts are. Sounds like your retiree friend may be providing a lot of the sweat equity, at the least their broader experience, unless you are out there shoulder to shoulder, sharing the work load and learning as you go. If their plot is small now, are they willing and up to the task of attending to a large space devoted to a multitude of "new" plants they are not currently growing? Does this person have any gh experience?

Actually, the large greenhouse you're dreaming of could keep three or more people busy. Especially with such "exotic" plants (for a gh) as you're contemplating.

For your circumstances, I'd also suggest starting smaller.

By all means choose a high roof, it does help stabilize temps a bit. Try all sorts of things, but keep it simple, too. Later on, the first gh could become a tropical space, a potting/starting area, or devoted to some more specific use while you add a larger greenhouse that utilizes what you learned in that first, smaller space.

If I were a bug, I'd head straight to that shady area in your pic. Lots of shade, good understory (small plants to cling to and breed in) and plenty of moisture. Bug heaven! Your gh choice probably has plenty of gaps, but a sealed up gh is just heaven for molds and fungus to invade. That'll be harder to control than anything if not dealt with by proper moisture control.

For bugs, you'd need to screen all openings and plug the gaps, which decreases air transfer a bit as well. So, it's all a trade-off of one thing for another. Fortunately, if you can afford it, the liberal application of money can address most of the issues, lol! Seriously, many problems can also be dealt with by addressing them early and it doesn't always take a ton of money if you're willing to be creative, fabricate and scrounge a bit. I made a temperature controlled air exchanger from a couple cheap box fans, an old aquarium thermometer, a relay and a model train transformer! Looks odd, but works great!

You will probably see bugs no matter what. I usually don't have a large problem with bugs, but more than once, an infestation required I sacrifice the plant or plants, as all the bugs were on them en masse and it was easier to just remove the entire plant very carefully and more or less be done with it. I have a few uninvited dinner guests this season, but so far, it's pretty minor. Keeping mulch in place and picking off the dead leaves and keeping it clean helps greatly.

The larger or more gh's you have, though, the greater the area to patrol, clean and treat for problems. But, presumably, the larger space would let you have room to grow things yet get around them from all sides. Still, it can become a chore, even a job, if you over-plan and bite off more than you and your helper can tackle.

One week unattended, you can find disease, bugs, dried out plants, overgrowth with plants flopping over, equipment problems, you name it, any or all suddenly taking over.

It's not like model ship building, where you can park it for weeks or months. Once committed, you are in for the long haul. Sometimes I think I should be committed! ;)

I also wonder about debris from all those trees falling on the gh. An arched roof is strong, but a heavy branch could penetrate or even something minor like bird droppings might become a nuisance if those trees were also nesting sites.

Better to move the gh more into the yard and add cooling and shade cloths. The money you save on the purchase of a smaller gh can be put into the utility bill.

Generally, a gh will amplify certain things and temper others. Overcrowding, lack of air movement or heat and moisture control can run rampant in a gh, yet be milder in their effects outdoors.

On the other hand, nasty weather, cold snaps, rainy drenches or dry spells are more easily dealt with, and the heat problem can be conquered. You can control the bugs for the most part.

Manual pollination of flowers is fun when there's only one or three a day, but I don't think I'd relish having surrogate sex with an entire tree full of blossoms! Somethings like peppers, tomatoes or even squashes it's faily easy, but for cucumbers, it can become an exercise in futility. God made bees for a reason, after all!

I'd love to have a 700+ square foot gh. That's about 7 times the space I have now. I have 6 seasons experience to help tell me what's required, but I'm really just a newbie myself, still experiencing new things every season. I imagine you could start with a space that large, but not try to fill it all right away and sort of grow into it season by season.

Every yard, every situation is different. You won't really know what you need till you get one up and start growing your own stuff. Don't overload and take it into the "job" category, and it should be a ton of fun and healthful foods for you and your friend!

-Ed

A smaller one of these (maybe 18') seems to be what I may be looking for.

This is about 1/3 the size of the others I was browsing at first, but these appear to be quite energy efficent.

I would add only the following...in a GH, pollination of toms and peppers is easy. Cucs are a different matter, and to handle this problem it is generally advised that you not use garden varieties, but rather use the longer, thinner European cucs.

Next, I have had at least as much, maybe more bug trouble on the typical vegetables as I have had on the exotic, tropical fruits and plants.

Geodesic dome GHs are cool and actually can be built from scratch. Email me if you want more info.

A smaller one of these (maybe 18') seems to be what I may be looking for.

This is about 1/3 the size of the others I was browsing at first, but these appear to be quite energy efficent.

as it is a doublepost when I refreshed this page. /shrug

Thanks for the info everyone.
I'm still in the data collection stage on this and pondering everything.

Today I observed my backyard at various times during the day to watch where the sunlight hits directly. It seems the tree in the middle of my backyard will provide more shade than is needed and may have to be removed.

In zone 6a (future location), can I have a greenhouse that would host, year-round, lizards, zone 8 or 9 tropical plants, and a tropical fish pool? i think that the plants might be ok because they can go dormant as long as it doesn't fall below too low a temperature, the pond would be ok with a heater, but I don't know about the lizards.

How much would it cost to build a 30 x 30 gh and how much, annually, to heat so that it is just warm enough in the winters; I could attach one side to the house if that would help?

Thanks,
Steve

In your zone, with a little help from Elliot Coleman, you will have no problem growing food year-round with cold frames.

Good luck with whatever direction you take!

I don't mean this as a put-down but as a dose of reality - you are letting money burn a hole in your pocket.

Besides the fact that you can get a much larger GH for the same money or the same size for a lot less, there are a lot of other things to consider.

But first, how are you going to get it erected - pay a crew to do that, including building the foundation? You'll also probably need to run power, water and drainage lines - that's a fair amount of work and money.

How are you and your neighbor going to raise the plants - in dirt, which you will have to find (buy) and probably mix and amend or in water, which is a whole new experience? Neither is just as simple as sow a seed, eat the produce in a few weeks.

What happens if the novelty wears off and you are left with hours and hours of work each week, along with heating/cooling costs during most of the year?

Do either of you know much about insects? Aphids, which are usually easy to control outdoors thanks to natural predators, can destroy a crop in a few short days if left untreated. And treating them using only natural methods or products can be very hard to do, especially if you do not have the experience.

Don't get me wrong - I've just started growing lettuce and tomatoes in a GH a couple of weeks ago, though I've been doing it outside for decades. It is fun, so far, but my GH is only 192 sq. ft.

I would get my feet wet for a season or two, starting with something small that you can either sell down the road or add on to if you find it fun and successful.

Just my 2¢ worth.

Mike

Actually there is a (c) which is I can grow fruits and veggies from Japan (home country) which I can not buy at local stores.

Another idea... before I bought my greenhouse from Growers Supply (growerssupply.com) I spent one season doing a community garden. I could learn if I am the kinda person to enjoy gardening and handle the work. You might also volunteer at local nursery/greenhouse.

So, some advice is good here, because you don't want to spend $3,000, use greenhouse one season, and then it sits in your yard. Its a pain to move or sell I think.

Good luck!

p.s. Excuse my broken English.

Miwa

Here in TN the daylight hours aren't long enough to grow food plants. They'll live, but produce almost nothing until the the longer days of spring.

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