and another question:

Does placing clear plastic over black water containers help to moderate temperations? help to increase the warmth in the containers?

Thanks again,
~Tom

Tom, I'm actually interested to see the responses to a couple of your questions. I was wondering that too about placing water containers where no direct sunlight hits because I will have a knee-wall all the way around my greenhouse and the only place to store containers would be under the benches.

I don't know what Chris in Iowa uses but I have found the standard Rubbermaid trashcans to be far too flimsy and they do bend out of shape or buckle when full of water. Some alternatives are those heavy duty black stock containers farmers use to feed and water livestock with. They are extremely rigid. Also, I made my first two rain barrels this year out of trash cans and I used the "Brute" series. It's made by Rubbermaid but it is much more rigid than their standard cans. My 44 gallon ones don't bow out of shape at all when filled to the brim.

Danielle

I wonder, Danielle, as the Brute 44 gallon Rubbermaid containers age, will they buckle? Anyone know? I know that cheaper trash cans buckle even under the weight of compost, but it took a year. ~Tom

I wonder if you could rig a way to put containers inside, meanwhile collecting rain to fill them? maybe via a rain gutter with a hose or siphon or something running from the gutter into the container inside? obviously you'd have to have a way to close off or block at will the connection to them, so as not to have overflow...but then you could also use the contents to water with...anyone ever get this adventurous? or would this just be too impractical?

Tom, I don't know if they would buckle in the future. I doubt that water alone would cause them to weaken over time (they really are VERY rigid) but perhaps exposure to sunlight or chemicals like bleach when cleaning them could have that effect. Mine are in complete shade right now but if I make others they might have to have sun exposure. I finally found a source for cheap 55 gallon plastic drums so that's what I'll be using in the future. Also, after buying the Brute 44 gallon cans at Lowes I found out I could have gotten those even heavier-duty black stock feed containers at Tractor Supply Company for much cheaper. They had 37 gallon ones and I could have gotten 3 of those for the exact same price as two of the Brute 44 gallons which equaled 23 more gallons. Live and learn.

rjinga I also toyed with that idea. I'm sure it's probably very do-able if you rig it with some kind of valve that could close off when the water level reached a certain point or just have additional overflow containers. Shouldn't be too difficult to seal around the hose or conduit thoroughly where it comes through the greenhouse wall.

Danielle

I used a Rubbermaid trash container for three years to hold water (to de-chlorinate for koi pond) with no problem.

Water in containers which do not receive sun will help a little but much less that those receiving sun.

Plastic bag inside will help nothing but small leaks, if any. Will slightly impair heat sink performance.

thanks everyone for your input. I've reread enough to put together this which adds to hdcochran's answer:

Rubbermaid trash cans work if you don't put any weight on top of them.

It still depends on what size/style/shape Rubbermaid container you're talking about. There may be some shapes/styles that don't have problems but I have two 40ish gallon containers (standard upright round trashcans) that are the cheapest most basic rubbermaid series and they got very bent out of shape just by filling them with water (no weight on top). Also the smaller rectangular bins will do this in a BAD way too (the cheapest series anyway). They probably won't last long in that shape. I learned this when I decided to fill up my extra Rubbermaid trash cans and bins with water so I could soak some large plants I had just transplanted from my parents home. Before putting the plants in they started to bow out of shape. The round upright ones weren't as bad and they may not buckle completely but the top did bend into an annoying oval shape making it difficult to put a lid on if you need to. The rectangular ones I thought would collapse for sure so I quickly emptied them.

That's why I decided to upgrade to the pricier Brute series when I attempted my first rain barrels. But you gotta' see what works for you. Good luck with your project!

Thanks for the warning, Danielle. I'm not going to try trash cans now that you've given me the tip on stock feeders at Tractor Supply Co. I have a store nearby!
~Tom

I have a rainwater collection system using the Rubbermaid Brute series. Here are the photographs.

First, I installed gutters on both sides.
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Then I put three of the containers inside and connected them with 1/2" OD tubing. I put a shutoff on each container and a shutoff on the whole system.
{{gwi:301767}}

Rainwater is diverted through the wall into the two containers on the ends. I used 2" PVC and then a flexible 2" pipe finish the run. This way I can remove it in winter if I don't want icy cold water going into my barrels.
{{gwi:301769}}

I installed two float valves in one of the barrels. I put an overflow on one as well, but it is not large enough and I will need to add another overflow pipe. Here are float valves from the inside.
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Here is the tubing and a filter I put on the line to remove debris
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Here is the pump and the bladder tank. The pump charges the tank to about 60 psi which provides much better mist than my old system.
{{gwi:301776}}

This is the RO system, rated at 180 gpd. In the summer when it is dry, the main source of water is RO. The float valves operate a solenoid valve and a pressure booster pump.
{{gwi:301773}}

I hope this helps or inspires someone.

SB

Here is the diagram
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Stressbaby, what a cool setup. Goes to show I have alot more to learn. My rainbarrels aren't connected to anything or each other at the moment. Just a simple brass valve near the bottom to fill jugs with. I manually dump a/c runoff and rainwater collection into the top right now but I'm hoping to get gutters installed for next year so they'll collect on their own.

I have what is probably a stupid question: I was instructed by someone else that in order to have a successful overflow container the valve or hose line that connects the primary container to the secondary container must be near the top of the primary container and flow downward to the top of the next one. That way when the primary can filled nearly to the top and reached the overflow outlet gravity would pull the water down the connector hose/pipe into the top of the secondary container and that each container would have to be progressively a little lower than the previous. It looks like from your pics it feeds from the bottom of your primary container into the bottom of your second one. Am I seeing that right??

Have I been misinformed? Does the second one fill up regardless of where its intake valve is or whether it's higher or lower than the exit valve of the previous container?

Any help clearing that up would be appreciated before I start configuring my setup. Thanks, and your greenhouse looks SOOO great. Sincerely, Danielle

Danielle, you certainly could arrange the containers as you describe, in series. I don't have enough difference in height to arrange the barrels that way inside the GH. Plus, I wanted the pump to draw down each container at the same rate. If I want to clean a container, I can shut off the other two, preferentially draw down the container I want to clean, then shut it off and open the other two back up.

On Legionnaire's Disease...the bug is ubiquitous in natural water supplies. One study showed 73% of potting soil samples in Australia had Legionnella. One of the main risk factors is smoking...others are immunosuppression, advanced age, other chronic disease, and alcohol...I figure that since I don't have any risk factors, I'll just keep my fingers crossed.

SB

Here is a link that might be useful: Legionnaire's Link

amazing! I'm super impressed. yes, it is inspiring. Thanks stressbaby!
~tom

Great!

I see that there is a mistake on my diagram. The pressure booster pump should be shown on the same line as the solenoid valve, not on the RO output line. Sorry for any confusion.

SB

Oh do I have a lot of catching up to do...

""Chris in Iowa has said multiple times to use old plastic trash cans, like rubbermaid to store water. What keeps the trash cans from buckling? If you placed a trash bag inside to contain the water, wouldn't the bag burst under the weight of the water as the can buckled under the weight? How does he do it?""

The trash cans are very stable when full of water, don't try to move one though or 1, you will hurt yourself. 2, you will break off the little sticky out thing on the bottom where they injected the plastic into the mold.

As for trash can liners, they are to slow down evaporation. Put a 45 gal liner in a 33 gal trash can and tie the top. Or pour 1/4 inch veggie oil on top of the water.

My trash cans are my bench legs, 5 of them to each 8ft by 4ft bench.

The trash cans buckle when weight is on them and they are empty.

When full they support OK.

If you want a truly sturdy water container, try the plastic buckets cat litter comes in. They can be painted black if you start with a primer made for plastic.

Alia