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7000feet

Row Cover Gardening

7000feet
13 years ago

Living in a cold climate like Wyoming presents problems if you like gardening! We soon learned that gardening was at the mercy of mother nature and lost our produce just days or weeks before harvest to frost. We finally learned we could grow a good garden with the help of row covers and checking the daily temperature report.

First we tried tunnel gardening by making cages 47"X6' and covered them with 8' 6 mil white poly. We planted wide rows and ran soaker hoses down the rows to soak the seeds and young plants until the threat of frost was gone (we hoped - usually Memorial day) then removed the plastic until the first threat of frost - usually the middle of August.

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The soaker hose idea worked great and once summer arrived we took the poly off and just let it lay by the cages until fall - during the summer we water with an irrigation sprinkler.

If we had a warm day, opening the ends was enough to let the air circulate and then we would close the ends on cold nights. We would just throw soil on both sides to keep the poly from blowing off in the wind. We learned to throw soil just on the direction of the wind side and use rocks on the other side to easily remove the poly if we wanted.

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Watering with soaker hoses worked great in the early spring and fall but when summer arrived we take the poly off and leave it lay on the side weighted down with soil until fall. During the summer we water with an irrigation sprinkler.

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This method worked well because we could plant about 30 days before frost in the spring and avoid the frost for about 30 days in the fall extending our growing season by about 60 days! The main thing I did not like was putting up the cages in the spring and taking them down so I could plow and fertilize the garden in the fall (we grow our own steers for fertilizer and beef). Also, the poly only lasted a year or two at most - so we did some research and this is how we do row cover gardening now.

1- I fertilize and plow the garden in the fall including the plants and mulch left on the garden after harvest.

2- I plant 3' wide rows with 4' in between the rows by first dragging a blanket harrow over the garden with my 4-wheeler and then running strings and only tilling the 3' area when I plant - Last year was a very wet spring with terrible soil prep conditions (wet) but this method worked anyway as you can see in the photo - I throw seeds (peas, bush beans etc) out on the ground like feeding grain to the chickens then set the tiller depth to about 2-3 inches and till the seeds under.

3- Then I tamp down the soil. Last spring there were clods of dirt because it was so wet but no worries - I got on the 4-wheeler and ran over the tilled in seeds with the 4-wheeler tires to tamp down the seed bed.

4- Then I cover the ground with a frost blanket without cages (just over the seed bed) and pulled the blanket back whenever I needed to water (which was about once a week in the spring) - just enough to keep the ground moist until the seedlings popped through.

5- Lastly I mulch heavy with hay bails - I grow my own hay for the steers and my garden - that way I have very little weeding in the wide rows because of the thick vegetable plants and between the rows because of the mulch.
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We had the best crop ever this last fall and this is the first time we were able to get 3-4 pickings on our bush beans and all the squash/cucumbers we wanted - we had a great crop! We even dehydrated peas, beans and squash this year cause we had so much after canning and giving the kids all they wanted. I definitely recommend this method. The only pain is taking the frost blanket off and on in the spring and fall to water - not that big of a deal though!
Follow-Up Postings:

RE: Row Cover Gardening

Very neat pictures. I have one question/comment. The plastic you are using looks like the plastic you would get a home improvement store. It doesn't look like greenhouse grade plastic. If so, that is the reason you are only getting one or two years out of it.

Using row cover is a great way to extend the season. Now you will just need to combine your efforts with a high tunnel and grow year around!

Thanks for sharing!

Jay

RE: Row Cover Gardening

Aside, but related: the latest Harper's has a very nice short story by Annie Proulx that takes place in that area.

Anyway, I'm interested in how that plastic doesn't get shredded in the wind. If there's one place that is gurarnteed windier than here, it is up there!

Dan

RE: Row Cover Gardening

Another great post!

Instead of an article in Zone 4 magazine, I think you should write a book. Or a series of articles at least. You've got things very well sorted out and clearly you get great results.

I'm glad I have the whole winter to think about how to do our hoops and row covers. There have been many great ideas buzzing around here lately!

RE: Row Cover Gardening

You are right - I did use the wrong plastic - readers of the post need to know that so they don't make the same mistake and thanks for pointing it out. We used construction grade plastic - I wouldn't recommend constuction grade plastic. But then with the frost blanket option now available - I don't see a need for plastic at all although it my be less expensive. The blanket worked great without cages but we did find out that for a wide row of plants the row cover needs to be about 12' wide to rise as the plants grow and still leave enough room to anchor it down. Thanks for the supportive comments on the posts - we hope to give others ideas as you given us.
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Success with your Row Cover Gardening from 7Kft and the moose that visited our place last week.

RE: Row Cover Gardening

That is some deep snow!
Do the moose get into your pea crop? That would be quite a sight!

RE: Row Cover Gardening

No moose in the peas but we may have to switch from Canby to Heritage raspberries because the deer are eating the branches during the winter taking away our next years producers. I think Heritage can be cut to the ground in the fall and produce raspberries on the same years branch? Speaking of raspberries - I planted quite a few and am ready to build the supports for the plants this year (if I have any left). The rows are 50' long - do you have any experience with that?
The deer also eat the strawberry plants but no problem there because they don't come from the mountains to eat until winter hits. I am surprised they haven't attacked my hay stack yet - it may be my Auzzie (Molly) that keeps them at distance - I may have to move her to the raspberry patch.

RE: Row Cover Gardening

Oh yes, we have a major raspberry crop too. I think that Heritage is also a 2nd year producer although you get some the first year. The deer eat our canes as well but not enough to noticeably affect the crop.

I have to go to work now, but I will post later with info about raspberry supports. Raspberries were our first crop that we were able to grow a year round supply.

RE: Row Cover Gardening

Yes. I've had raspberries as well including 'Heritage'. You can cut everbearing canes to the ground in spring (fall if you have to but let the deer help). I highly recommend either the tallest t-post or galv fence post deep into the ground for support, and designing for your preferred tensioning method for the wire, as the wire will definitely sag.

Dan

RE: Row Cover Gardening

Please post any photos of your raspberry supports, want to do it right the first time - be gone for a day or two - daughter's trying to deliver twins at 24 weeks - appears she may have gotten to the hospital in time and will be there until the twins deliver - everything stable today - hope it is a couple of months - give the twins every possible chance - mom is fine. Appears we will be the beneficiaries of a couple of grandson's staying at our house - one of the positives of this event!
7kft

RE: Row Cover Gardening

Wow. Good luck to the preemies.

The berries were at my last house in WA state - can't get permission from the fam to do a bed here yet so no pix (swing set is higher priority for that space). I have a million pics of the place in WA, but no pix of the supports, alas.

Nevertheless, IIRC my end posts were 2in galv fence post concreted in and angled 10� from the vertical away from the 25' rows. My center posts were straight vertical. My braces were 3' wide at 2.5 and 5 ft high, each brace had one galv wire on either side of post. It is important to take up inevitable slack with a turnbuckle at each brace (learned the hard way to use multiple turnbuckles - very very windy at that place [under Chinook Pass if that is any clue]) and wire stretches a lot).

Your bottom brace height will depend on your mower height if you mow down your canes, but shouldn't be too high as you want to ensure the canes grow straight - too much higher and more of your labor will be involved to train canes. Too much wider than 3ft on the wire and picking becomes much harder (YMMV).

You may also want to invest in a raspberry cane cutter to ease the strain on your back from maintaining that much row footage.

And since there are so many nice fotos on these threads lately, this is what the raspberries used to look up at every day:

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The extensive flat-concave part of Rainier to the left of the Elk Head all gave way at one time ~5700 years ago, forming a plateau ~270 feet high, upon which now the house and berries flourish.

Dan

RE: Row Cover Gardening

Awesome photo of Mt Rainier! Definitely one of my all time favorite mountains. I can see why raspberries growing with that view would be above average.

7kft - I hope all goes well with your daughter and the twins. Tell them to stay put, please!

We don't have photos of our raspberry supports, but I can take some. But a few comments first.

T-posts? No, no, no. T-posts are ugly. They are great for keeping goats in place and other roughshod tasks, but T-posts have no place in a refined garden and are not fit to mingle with something as sublime as a raspberry. (This is all tongue in cheek, just in case it's not obvious enough!) Galvanized pipe is fine. We used black pipe that is meant for plumbing because it was a bit cheaper and the black color fades right into the background.

The posts are vertical, spaced probably every ~8 feet along the length of the bed. The width of the bed is 3 feet and there is a row of metal posts at the front and at the back. Basically we made a fence all around the perimeter of each row.

So far we only put in one support wire to train the canes to, but that is not enough. Next year we'll add a lower one.

We have little threaded hooks to adjust the wire tension because yes, it stretches. I wish I had unhooked the wires for the winter because I fear a deer will barge through there and bend everything.

Our whole raspberry crop had a year off last year - all the canes died the previous winter. This was a very sad event for us because we rely on our crop to make a year's worth of jam, a bunch of Christmas gifts, 2-3 gallons of raspberry bounce (vodka), plus a freezer stuffed full of berries to snack on all winter. Not having any of this was a major blow this year. I mean, I had to *buy* jam! The horror!

But the year off allowed us to clean up the rows and build these supports. This should allow for easier picking and certainly a makes for a less unruly area.

Dan, your system sounds very nice. There is a similar one described in the book 'Growing Fruits and Vegetables Organically,' by Rodale Press. This book is out of print now but you can find it used online for about $2. The book will tell you just about everything about when to plant, when to harvest, and how to manage a huge array of crops. Anyway, that book has drawings of some nice support systems that sound like what you had.

Dan, hopefully when your kids get too old for the swingset you can get a raspberry row going again.

RE: Row Cover Gardening

Twins still in the oven -twins & mom OK - mom in hospital until they deliver - we hope at least another 4 weeks - thanks for your concerns.

You have helped with your experience - would you recommend cementing the end posts? Dan mentioned bracing the end posts - maybe I should do that whether I cement the end posts or not. How deep would you recommend the end posts be buried in the ground? How about the line posts? Interested in the threaded hooks (eye/hook bolts/ lags?) What gage of wire (single strand?).

I agree that T-Posts are not the way to go - but 2" galv fence posts or black pipe would work. I may try using the treated 5" posts and 3" rails that I have left over from building my fences.

Here is a photo of last summer - this is the first years growth and next years producing canes. I will have a total of 5 rows when we are done. I planted the 3rd row last spring then the 4th & 5th this spring - maybe with that many rows the deer will not eat as many canes? I am planting grass between the rows for easy maintenance and have been spraying "Grass Getter" to kill the grass amongst the raspberries - seemed to work great last year. {{gwi:310629}}

Great photo of Mt. Rainier Dan - It would be hard to move from that location to move anyway I would think!

RE: Row Cover Gardening

Glad to hear all is ~well and hopefully mom likes white walls and noise at night.

I concreted in all my posts (frost heave & cheap concrete) and IMHO 2' is fine if you can get lower without too much expense I'd do it, if not you'll likely get by. If you have cheap 1/2" gravel around you could get away with that in place of concrete. Make a form for your angle that you can move from post to post from old 2x4s - the post is the hypotenuse and the top of the post is your 10º, notch the top. I used single-strand wire, don't remember gauge but not thinnest, probably on sale at feed store. If you use a flail mower out there and don't spray your grass, rake up some and put into the rows - they'll thank you for it. I'd have maybe a couple canes that got vole damage because of the cover I created for them, but the nitrogen was worth it, as well as moisture retention - but I had a weasel and snakes and raptors everywhere so they helped out with my critter control so YMMV.

Whatever you do, don't spend a million dollars as raspberries don't last forever, and when they're done its best to plant in new location. Underneath Mt Rainier is very cloudy - cloudier than Seattle, and I need sunshine so reluctantly had to go. Best bike riding around there imaginable with that staring you in the face.

Dan, your system sounds very nice. There is a similar one described in the book 'Growing Fruits and Vegetables Organically,' by Rodale Press.

I'm probably not bright enough to come with that system on my own, so surely I picked it up from someone along the line that adheres to the Rodale methods.

:o)

Dan

P.S.: I just got the new Johnny's seed catalogue - they are selling fabric clips for EMT conduit for 4.95/10 pc. Way cheaper than Territorial. I'd buy some if I hadn't already made my own...

RE: Row Cover Gardening

I took some photos of our raspberry supports yesterday so I will post them later. Sure enough a deer had snagged one of the wires and bent one of the posts. I don't think the post is actually bent, I think it's just angled in the ground and is now frozen in place. So I took down all the wires for the sake of the deer as well as my nice posts.

7000ft, your raspberries are off to a lovely start! It sounds like you will have a lot of berries on your hands. Enough to share with deer, and then plenty for canning or freezing. Our rows are spaced similarly. The suckers are aggressive though, so they have jumped all the way into our neighbor's vegetable garden, probably 10 feet away. They are also popping up in my raised beds, which I think I can control by putting weed cloth at the bottom of the raised bed. In between our rows we have landscape fabric and woodchips, and if we didn't have that we'd have one solid mass of canes. I never realized how aggressive they are. But the rapid suckering does keep the row very thick and full.

I also use a light mulch on the raspberries, and there are soaker hoses along the rows too. With lawn around your rows, I suppose regular mowing will take care of the suckers.

What is "grass getter"? Is it safe to spray around food crops?

Dan, how long do raspberries last? We've had ours almost 10 years and I very much want them to stick around.

I can only imagine how nice the road riding must be around Mt. Rainier. Must be some nice climbs!

I just found my Johnny's catalog in a big stack of mail. So now I can start dreaming and doodling for next year's plans. :)

RE: Row Cover Gardening

Karin, folks start looking for signs of disease about 7-8-10 years into production, and depending upon weather stress figure a decline in production starting 10-12 years into it. Sometimes a rapid decline. Your Extension doesn't mention this, but mine does and even states you should purposely move the bed. I suspect this has to do with disease prevention before it starts; once the spores are around, they are effective for some distance.

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Dan

RE: Row Cover Gardening

Very helpful - certainly the mulch will help keep the grass down and I have plenty of mulch. Mowing between the rows should control the suckers and keep them where we want them. I think I know what I need to do for supports now that Dan explained how he built his - but interested in your photos Karin. Glad you checked out your raspberry fence - when you took the photos.

I don't like to use chemicals - as little as possible - but this stuff works to kill unwanted grass in shrubs and hard to get places. It was available from our County Weed & Pest. Recommends not using product 30 days prior to harvest. We used it last year and it did not appear to bother the raspberries. Product comes with a safe list and raspberries are among them.

I going to look up Johnny's seed catalogue now that both of you mentioned it.
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RE: Row Cover Gardening

OK, here are some photos:

Overview - basically it's a simple perimeter fence. Instead of making a T like Dan's. we just put in vertical posts at each corner and then every 8' along the row. Next year we'll add a lower strand of wire to catch the shorter canes.
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Close-up of the wire tensioning device - a threaded hook with a nut on the end. Spinning the nut adjusts the tension. The wire is basic fencing wire.
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Summertime view. A William Baffin climbing rose sits at the midpoint in the rows and there is a gap in the raspberry fence here so you can get in between the rows here. This is best done while wearing long sleeves because the rose is even thornier than the raspberries, so it's a bit tricky to negotiate. That said, I wouldn't trade this magnificent rose for anything!
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Time to make jam! This is from the year before last, early August. Yum.
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Thanks for the info from the extension Dan. I can only hope that my crop keeps going for awhile longer, as moving it is not a great option at this point. After all the canes died last winter, things filled in well this year with the exception of one area.

I have lost track of which varieties I have where. I planted a wide range of them: Boyne, Redwing, Latham, Heritage, Royalty. However I did not keep detailed notes about which type is where, and at this point they have all spread around. I didn't realize that Redwing and Heritage are fall-bearing - all the types produce at similar times for me. Nowadays I keep meticulous notes about everything I plant and so it bugs me that I am relatively clueless about my raspberry types.

RE: Row Cover Gardening

Good info - Great pics! Thanks for the close ups on the eyebolts. I'll share pics when I complete the braces next summer. After reading raspberry options on Johnny's seeds - I'm tempted to try Encore & Nova. Also got interested in Soil Blocks - either of you tried making them for planting seeds in GH? Appears to be a good option?

RE: Row Cover Gardening

Glad the photos are helpful and We'll look forward to seeing what you construct this year. I'll have to look up those raspberry types.

I haven't tried soil blocks. I wonder how well they stay together, especially if you move them around the greenhouse from time to time. I just use a variety of 6 packs, 4 packs and myriad plastic pots I've accumulated over time. I start things in very small pots then pot them up after a couple of weeks.

One thing I'd like to upgrade this year is my plastic flats. They are pretty flimsy, even when you double them up. I wind up moving things around a lot and one of these days I have no doubt that a whole flat of precious seedlings is going to hit the floor. I found some heavy duty plastic trays that look like they'll work a lot better. They aren't in the Johnny's catalog though.

Johnny's does have a huge array of hoops and row covers this year. I have yet to really settle down and investigate them.

All the catalogs are arriving now - Territorial came yesterday. Now I have a few months of making dog-eared pages before making the big decisions for this year.

RE: Row Cover Gardening

We decided to order the Mini & Medium hand soil blockers after watching a bunch of you-tube videos yesterday. We were able to get the soil mixture recommended by some from watching the videos. We would like to order some heavy duty no-hole trays - do you have a good source you can recommend for them? One website recommended bussing trays available at restaurant supply sources but the sides come up too high - we think. The trays at Johnny's appear too flimsy as you experienced. We also thought we would purchase an electric grow pad. 20X48" seems the best option?

I noticed the hoop & row cover options also and watched a bunch of the videos. There are a lot of good options for growing gardens in cold climates when compared to what was available even 10 years ago. The high tunnel appears a good option if a greenhouse is out of the question or to supplement a greenhouse. Think I will stick with the floating row covers though. They seemed to work great for beans, cucumbers & squash.

Guess I will check out Territorial - I haven't spent enough time doing research in years past - winter gives one more time to prepare for the busy spring/summer. Speaking of having more time in winter here is a fun diversion for which I have a difficult time finding time to do except during the winter and have found it enjoyable - especially for that raspberry jam!
Double oven bread making:
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RE: Row Cover Gardening

If you are just growing your own cool season greens in the winter (and you should) for your consumption, all you need is a low tunnel/coldframe or three. Market gardeners need the high tunnels.

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IMHO Territorial is more expensive than Johnny's for hoop material and parts.

Dan

RE: Row Cover Gardening

I've been using soil blocks for many years. they hold together very well and can easily be moved about. i use a 4 block tool with each block being about 2 1/4 x 2 1/4. i get 50 in a standard flat.

RE: Row Cover Gardening

Randy,
do you start with the mini's? Every video we watch recommend starting with the mini's and moving them to the 2 1/4" because of the germination rate and because so many more mini's can fit on a heating pad and by the time they are moved to the 2 1/4" - the seedlings don't need the heating pad? Also, do you have or see the need for the 4" soil block? Apparently it is the best size for tomatoes, squash etc?

RE: Row Cover Gardening

I have the mini block maker and find it difficult to make blocks with. i just use the 2 1/4's. i guess if you have all the sizes you can just keep potting up.

RE: Row Cover Gardening

7kft,

That bread looks unfairly delicious! What a great hobby/skill that is.

The heavy duty trays are called Perma-Nest. They are rigid plastic and come in lots of sizes. They are 2.5 inches tall, like a regular flat. Although one of the sizes is 3.5 inches tall. (I agree a bussing tray will be too tall) They also make clear plastic domes that fit on top, and the domes come in two heights. I haven't yet decided exactly which sizes to order.

So far I have used the 9 x 19" heat mat, which is roughly the size of a flat. I have a couple of those. The bigger ones look really nice; the only downside is that you might lose a bit of flexibility in terms of where you place each flat in your greenhouse. How big are your shelves? Will all your flats need the same amount of heat? Then again, having a 4' long heat mat would be pretty nice if you are sure you'll be starting many flats with similar needs and you have the shelf dimensions to work with that.

I have found that a heat mat used in conjunction with a clear plastic dome over the plants makes a very warm and cozy home for the seedlings. Even if the greenhouse isn't too warm, the plants will be toasty. Some of the domes even have a little vent in them.

If your greenhouse works out anything like mine, you'll want to put your tomatoes in something larger than 4" in short order. I wind up with mine in gallon pots by early May.

Here is a link that might be useful: Perma-nest on Amazon

RE: Row Cover Gardening

Hi Karin,
While I was waiting for your reply I google searched heavy duty propagation trays and found the same thing at Home Harvest: http://homeharvest.com/propagationflatsdomesinserts.htm They are available in tan and green (plastic domes also) at Home Harvest but more expensive than Amazon and Amazon has free shipping. We plan to use our raised beds as shelves (30" depth) so we have room for the larger heat pad. I already ordered the 48" pad so guess we will order smaller ones next year if it doesn't work for us. Do the pads have a temp setting or do we have to purchase the $40 soil probe/thermostat to regulate the temp?

I'll let you know how the soil blocks work - I am excited to try them and got them ordered today. That was another reason we wanted the heavier propagation tray.

RE: Row Cover Gardening

Nice! You are getting after it! :)

I bet the big size heat mat will be really nice to have. They don't have a thermostat, but nor do they get all that hot. Sometimes I set them on timers so they are not on during the warm part of the day. I do know that if you have the heat mat on, a plastic dome cover on, and it's a sunny day, things will get very hot. But that isn't too hard to avoid. That said, the thermostat would take care of things easily.

I'll look forward to hearing about how the soil blocks work out. It would be nice to avoid all the plastic pots. If I didn't already own a zillion plastic pots I would be very keen on the soil block approach.

In the meantime, I will also be pondering which size of those nice trays to get. And what color! Such choices!

When are you going to start your first seeds?

RE: Row Cover Gardening

I like Johnny's Seed - Seed Starting Calculator. http://www.johnnyseeds.com/e-PDGSeedStart.aspx??source=HomeSeedCalc0111. I will probably use this calculator this year to determine the planting dates and use Martha Stewart's Seed Starting Worksheet - www.marthastewart.com/seed-worksheet - to keep tract of what I do. I agree with you - I have got to keep better records of what/when I plant and when/what to fertilize. I finally organized an excel worksheet for ordering our vegetable seeds - I think I have that documented for easy seed ordering decisions.

Here are a couple of photos of our soil sifter (we have rocky soil in places) - we built it to fit our wheel barrow so it does not move once I place it on the wheel barrow. It works pretty good for sifting soil in a small area. I go down the garden row and throw in surface rocks then dump the rocks in my 4-wheel trailer and dump the wheel barrow of dirt back in the garden. Thought it might also come in handy for sifting soil for the Soil block mixture. FYI
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RE: Row Cover Gardening

I like both of those web resources for seed starting. The Johnny's one is particularly cool. I found that the hardest thing was forecasting the frost-free date inside my greenhouse so I could predict when to start plants that are destined to stay inside.

And yes, a customized Excel sheet is a great way to go! I have an Excel database that starts from the very beginning of our gardens, so I have a pretty good history of what I've planted each year, where it's from and how it did. There are a few gaps though, notably which type of raspberry variety is where. I also have a little bar graph that I use to track the planting dates, exciting weather events, bloom periods and key harvests. Each year I print out the template, then fill in the bars by hand over the relevant dates. This gives a very interesting comparison of your growing climate from year to year. Maybe someday these will be key pieces of climate data?

The note-taking is also helpful for reflection - it helps you firm up your thoughts.

Now, your soil screener looks like a very nice tool. I like that it fits firmly on the wheel barrow. What do you do with all the rocky stuff that is left over? Maybe you'll have enough for a stone border? Do you have alkaline soil too? Do you find that your soil gets clumpy, even when it's nice soil? That's something I've noticed lately. Even though the soil is beautifully textured (not clay), it forms hard clumps. I am wondering if this is from alkalinity and the particles being inclined to stick together.

RE: Row Cover Gardening

Your method for keeping notes is helpful!

The Salt River runs through our property (a mild to raging stream depending on the runoff and irrigation needs - so I return the rocks to their rightful owner - the river. We have great soil because we are on an ancient river bed but the bad part is the top soil varies from 0-36" depending on the swells. We tried to locate our garden on deep top soil but still had to haul off large rocks in the beginning and now sift the soil as we plant and haul off the small rocks. I haven't tested our PH but is alkaline soil like yours. It does get clumpy but try to keep it moist during germination and use a lot of mulch to keep the walk areas dry/walkable. We add manure every fall before plowing the garden. We purchased sifted top soil for the GH and added a lot of vermiculite, peat moss & compost - not problems with GH soil.

Here is a photo of what works well for us to remove rocks from our garden. I purchased this wonderful dumping trailer that hooks on my 4-wheeler. I rake the rocks in a row and use a manure fork to throw them in the trailer - then dump the rocks on the river bed with their cousins.
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RE: Row Cover Gardening

I have used the mini-block maker for years. I use either Jiffy Mix or ProMix with it. With ProMix you may have to throw out a small stick or two, but it holds together fine. I didn't know about the attachment for the medium block maker that makes the hole for the little one to fit into until several years after I bought mine, and I never remember to order it. So I don't use the two blocks together. Some things grow so rapidly that they need to be started in the medium size, but I start all tomato and pepper seeds in the tiny block and pot up to small containers when they get their first real leaves or when they appear to be a good strong seedling.

Some things I don't need to plant 20 of, so I write the name on a popsicle stick, lay the popsicle stick between the row of blocks and slide the blocks over in groups of five to a small piece of foil. I crimp the foil up a little to hold the stick so I don't lose the name. I don't make real plant markers until I am sure I have good transplants. I make the permanent marker at the time I put them in their first small container. I am much more likely to plant 5 seeds of 4 varieties of tomato than I am to plant 20 of the same kind, so it works well for me.

RE: Row Cover Gardening

Would like to know more about the tunnel construction; why the wire mesh instead of pvc or waterline pipe? What is the mesh sizing? Is this welded wire? What size is the wire (#10,12,14)? How easy is it to form the wire? Is it fairly strong, or does it bend easy? Why the gaps between sections of wire? How is the wire secured to the ground? What is the height of the tunnel at the center line? I am very interested in this.

RE: Row Cover Gardening

The mesh is 47" 12 1/2 gauge Field Fence available at most farm supply stores - a full roll is 330' but most stores have smaller rolls as well. I cut the fence in 6' lengths with small bolt cutter or wire cutter and cut the vertical wire such that there is 6" of wire on both sides of the hopes to push into the ground to anchor the fence. The center height is approx. 24". I plant in wide rows of 30". The mesh size is 6" squares (for easy reach-in, weeding etc.) although the bottom couple of rows are a bit smaller. I gap the fence in the rows approx. 18" to reduce the cost and because the row cover does not sag with the gap. I like the fence because it will last many years and I live in a climate where we have had snow every month of the year and periods of hail or strong wind. The fence does an excellent job holding up the weight of the snow and withstanding the wind/hail etc. It pulls out easy at season end and stores by stacking one inside the other. I have never tried PVC pipe so I am not in a position to compare. I am sure this fence method is more expensive but I like the way it performs.

RE: Row Cover Gardening

This Years Broccoli using the tunnel method - keeps out the insects too. I usually plant veggies in the garden with the row cover the 1st week of may or earlier if I can work the soil. Without the row cover, there is a threat of frost until the middle of June and after the end of August. Well worth the effort!

RE: Row Cover Gardening

Thanks! That helped a lot! I Appreciate the follow up.

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Comments (35)

  • jrslick (North Central Kansas, Zone 5B)
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Very neat pictures. I have one question/comment. The plastic you are using looks like the plastic you would get a home improvement store. It doesn't look like greenhouse grade plastic. If so, that is the reason you are only getting one or two years out of it.

    Using row cover is a great way to extend the season. Now you will just need to combine your efforts with a high tunnel and grow year around!

    Thanks for sharing!

    Jay

  • Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Aside, but related: the latest Harper's has a very nice short story by Annie Proulx that takes place in that area.

    Anyway, I'm interested in how that plastic doesn't get shredded in the wind. If there's one place that is gurarnteed windier than here, it is up there!

    Dan

  • karin_mt
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Another great post!

    Instead of an article in Zone 4 magazine, I think you should write a book. Or a series of articles at least. You've got things very well sorted out and clearly you get great results.

    I'm glad I have the whole winter to think about how to do our hoops and row covers. There have been many great ideas buzzing around here lately!

  • 7000feet
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You are right - I did use the wrong plastic - readers of the post need to know that so they don't make the same mistake and thanks for pointing it out. We used construction grade plastic - I wouldn't recommend constuction grade plastic. But then with the frost blanket option now available - I don't see a need for plastic at all although it my be less expensive. The blanket worked great without cages but we did find out that for a wide row of plants the row cover needs to be about 12' wide to rise as the plants grow and still leave enough room to anchor it down. Thanks for the supportive comments on the posts - we hope to give others ideas as you given us.
    {{gwi:310627}}
    Success with your Row Cover Gardening from 7Kft and the moose that visited our place last week.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    That is some deep snow!
    Do the moose get into your pea crop? That would be quite a sight!

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    No moose in the peas but we may have to switch from Canby to Heritage raspberries because the deer are eating the branches during the winter taking away our next years producers. I think Heritage can be cut to the ground in the fall and produce raspberries on the same years branch? Speaking of raspberries - I planted quite a few and am ready to build the supports for the plants this year (if I have any left). The rows are 50' long - do you have any experience with that?
    The deer also eat the strawberry plants but no problem there because they don't come from the mountains to eat until winter hits. I am surprised they haven't attacked my hay stack yet - it may be my Auzzie (Molly) that keeps them at distance - I may have to move her to the raspberry patch.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Oh yes, we have a major raspberry crop too. I think that Heritage is also a 2nd year producer although you get some the first year. The deer eat our canes as well but not enough to noticeably affect the crop.

    I have to go to work now, but I will post later with info about raspberry supports. Raspberries were our first crop that we were able to grow a year round supply.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Yes. I've had raspberries as well including 'Heritage'. You can cut everbearing canes to the ground in spring (fall if you have to but let the deer help). I highly recommend either the tallest t-post or galv fence post deep into the ground for support, and designing for your preferred tensioning method for the wire, as the wire will definitely sag.

    Dan

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Please post any photos of your raspberry supports, want to do it right the first time - be gone for a day or two - daughter's trying to deliver twins at 24 weeks - appears she may have gotten to the hospital in time and will be there until the twins deliver - everything stable today - hope it is a couple of months - give the twins every possible chance - mom is fine. Appears we will be the beneficiaries of a couple of grandson's staying at our house - one of the positives of this event!
    7kft

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Wow. Good luck to the preemies.

    The berries were at my last house in WA state - can't get permission from the fam to do a bed here yet so no pix (swing set is higher priority for that space). I have a million pics of the place in WA, but no pix of the supports, alas.

    Nevertheless, IIRC my end posts were 2in galv fence post concreted in and angled 10� from the vertical away from the 25' rows. My center posts were straight vertical. My braces were 3' wide at 2.5 and 5 ft high, each brace had one galv wire on either side of post. It is important to take up inevitable slack with a turnbuckle at each brace (learned the hard way to use multiple turnbuckles - very very windy at that place [under Chinook Pass if that is any clue]) and wire stretches a lot).

    Your bottom brace height will depend on your mower height if you mow down your canes, but shouldn't be too high as you want to ensure the canes grow straight - too much higher and more of your labor will be involved to train canes. Too much wider than 3ft on the wire and picking becomes much harder (YMMV).

    You may also want to invest in a raspberry cane cutter to ease the strain on your back from maintaining that much row footage.

    And since there are so many nice fotos on these threads lately, this is what the raspberries used to look up at every day:

    {{gwi:310628}}

    The extensive flat-concave part of Rainier to the left of the Elk Head all gave way at one time ~5700 years ago, forming a plateau ~270 feet high, upon which now the house and berries flourish.

    Dan

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Awesome photo of Mt Rainier! Definitely one of my all time favorite mountains. I can see why raspberries growing with that view would be above average.

    7kft - I hope all goes well with your daughter and the twins. Tell them to stay put, please!

    We don't have photos of our raspberry supports, but I can take some. But a few comments first.

    T-posts? No, no, no. T-posts are ugly. They are great for keeping goats in place and other roughshod tasks, but T-posts have no place in a refined garden and are not fit to mingle with something as sublime as a raspberry. (This is all tongue in cheek, just in case it's not obvious enough!) Galvanized pipe is fine. We used black pipe that is meant for plumbing because it was a bit cheaper and the black color fades right into the background.

    The posts are vertical, spaced probably every ~8 feet along the length of the bed. The width of the bed is 3 feet and there is a row of metal posts at the front and at the back. Basically we made a fence all around the perimeter of each row.

    So far we only put in one support wire to train the canes to, but that is not enough. Next year we'll add a lower one.

    We have little threaded hooks to adjust the wire tension because yes, it stretches. I wish I had unhooked the wires for the winter because I fear a deer will barge through there and bend everything.

    Our whole raspberry crop had a year off last year - all the canes died the previous winter. This was a very sad event for us because we rely on our crop to make a year's worth of jam, a bunch of Christmas gifts, 2-3 gallons of raspberry bounce (vodka), plus a freezer stuffed full of berries to snack on all winter. Not having any of this was a major blow this year. I mean, I had to *buy* jam! The horror!

    But the year off allowed us to clean up the rows and build these supports. This should allow for easier picking and certainly a makes for a less unruly area.

    Dan, your system sounds very nice. There is a similar one described in the book 'Growing Fruits and Vegetables Organically,' by Rodale Press. This book is out of print now but you can find it used online for about $2. The book will tell you just about everything about when to plant, when to harvest, and how to manage a huge array of crops. Anyway, that book has drawings of some nice support systems that sound like what you had.

    Dan, hopefully when your kids get too old for the swingset you can get a raspberry row going again.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Twins still in the oven -twins & mom OK - mom in hospital until they deliver - we hope at least another 4 weeks - thanks for your concerns.

    You have helped with your experience - would you recommend cementing the end posts? Dan mentioned bracing the end posts - maybe I should do that whether I cement the end posts or not. How deep would you recommend the end posts be buried in the ground? How about the line posts? Interested in the threaded hooks (eye/hook bolts/ lags?) What gage of wire (single strand?).

    I agree that T-Posts are not the way to go - but 2" galv fence posts or black pipe would work. I may try using the treated 5" posts and 3" rails that I have left over from building my fences.

    Here is a photo of last summer - this is the first years growth and next years producing canes. I will have a total of 5 rows when we are done. I planted the 3rd row last spring then the 4th & 5th this spring - maybe with that many rows the deer will not eat as many canes? I am planting grass between the rows for easy maintenance and have been spraying "Grass Getter" to kill the grass amongst the raspberries - seemed to work great last year. {{gwi:310629}}

    Great photo of Mt. Rainier Dan - It would be hard to move from that location to move anyway I would think!

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Glad to hear all is ~well and hopefully mom likes white walls and noise at night.

    I concreted in all my posts (frost heave & cheap concrete) and IMHO 2' is fine if you can get lower without too much expense I'd do it, if not you'll likely get by. If you have cheap 1/2" gravel around you could get away with that in place of concrete. Make a form for your angle that you can move from post to post from old 2x4s - the post is the hypotenuse and the top of the post is your 10º, notch the top. I used single-strand wire, don't remember gauge but not thinnest, probably on sale at feed store. If you use a flail mower out there and don't spray your grass, rake up some and put into the rows - they'll thank you for it. I'd have maybe a couple canes that got vole damage because of the cover I created for them, but the nitrogen was worth it, as well as moisture retention - but I had a weasel and snakes and raptors everywhere so they helped out with my critter control so YMMV.

    Whatever you do, don't spend a million dollars as raspberries don't last forever, and when they're done its best to plant in new location. Underneath Mt Rainier is very cloudy - cloudier than Seattle, and I need sunshine so reluctantly had to go. Best bike riding around there imaginable with that staring you in the face.

    Dan, your system sounds very nice. There is a similar one described in the book 'Growing Fruits and Vegetables Organically,' by Rodale Press.

    I'm probably not bright enough to come with that system on my own, so surely I picked it up from someone along the line that adheres to the Rodale methods.

    :o)

    Dan

    P.S.: I just got the new Johnny's seed catalogue - they are selling fabric clips for EMT conduit for 4.95/10 pc. Way cheaper than Territorial. I'd buy some if I hadn't already made my own...

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    I took some photos of our raspberry supports yesterday so I will post them later. Sure enough a deer had snagged one of the wires and bent one of the posts. I don't think the post is actually bent, I think it's just angled in the ground and is now frozen in place. So I took down all the wires for the sake of the deer as well as my nice posts.

    7000ft, your raspberries are off to a lovely start! It sounds like you will have a lot of berries on your hands. Enough to share with deer, and then plenty for canning or freezing. Our rows are spaced similarly. The suckers are aggressive though, so they have jumped all the way into our neighbor's vegetable garden, probably 10 feet away. They are also popping up in my raised beds, which I think I can control by putting weed cloth at the bottom of the raised bed. In between our rows we have landscape fabric and woodchips, and if we didn't have that we'd have one solid mass of canes. I never realized how aggressive they are. But the rapid suckering does keep the row very thick and full.

    I also use a light mulch on the raspberries, and there are soaker hoses along the rows too. With lawn around your rows, I suppose regular mowing will take care of the suckers.

    What is "grass getter"? Is it safe to spray around food crops?

    Dan, how long do raspberries last? We've had ours almost 10 years and I very much want them to stick around.

    I can only imagine how nice the road riding must be around Mt. Rainier. Must be some nice climbs!

    I just found my Johnny's catalog in a big stack of mail. So now I can start dreaming and doodling for next year's plans. :)

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Karin, folks start looking for signs of disease about 7-8-10 years into production, and depending upon weather stress figure a decline in production starting 10-12 years into it. Sometimes a rapid decline. Your Extension doesn't mention this, but mine does and even states you should purposely move the bed. I suspect this has to do with disease prevention before it starts; once the spores are around, they are effective for some distance.

    {{gwi:310630}}

    Dan

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Very helpful - certainly the mulch will help keep the grass down and I have plenty of mulch. Mowing between the rows should control the suckers and keep them where we want them. I think I know what I need to do for supports now that Dan explained how he built his - but interested in your photos Karin. Glad you checked out your raspberry fence - when you took the photos.

    I don't like to use chemicals - as little as possible - but this stuff works to kill unwanted grass in shrubs and hard to get places. It was available from our County Weed & Pest. Recommends not using product 30 days prior to harvest. We used it last year and it did not appear to bother the raspberries. Product comes with a safe list and raspberries are among them.

    I going to look up Johnny's seed catalogue now that both of you mentioned it.
    {{gwi:310631}}

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    OK, here are some photos:

    Overview - basically it's a simple perimeter fence. Instead of making a T like Dan's. we just put in vertical posts at each corner and then every 8' along the row. Next year we'll add a lower strand of wire to catch the shorter canes.
    {{gwi:310633}}

    Close-up of the wire tensioning device - a threaded hook with a nut on the end. Spinning the nut adjusts the tension. The wire is basic fencing wire.
    {{gwi:310635}}

    Summertime view. A William Baffin climbing rose sits at the midpoint in the rows and there is a gap in the raspberry fence here so you can get in between the rows here. This is best done while wearing long sleeves because the rose is even thornier than the raspberries, so it's a bit tricky to negotiate. That said, I wouldn't trade this magnificent rose for anything!
    {{gwi:310636}}

    Time to make jam! This is from the year before last, early August. Yum.
    {{gwi:310637}}
    Thanks for the info from the extension Dan. I can only hope that my crop keeps going for awhile longer, as moving it is not a great option at this point. After all the canes died last winter, things filled in well this year with the exception of one area.

    I have lost track of which varieties I have where. I planted a wide range of them: Boyne, Redwing, Latham, Heritage, Royalty. However I did not keep detailed notes about which type is where, and at this point they have all spread around. I didn't realize that Redwing and Heritage are fall-bearing - all the types produce at similar times for me. Nowadays I keep meticulous notes about everything I plant and so it bugs me that I am relatively clueless about my raspberry types.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Good info - Great pics! Thanks for the close ups on the eyebolts. I'll share pics when I complete the braces next summer. After reading raspberry options on Johnny's seeds - I'm tempted to try Encore & Nova. Also got interested in Soil Blocks - either of you tried making them for planting seeds in GH? Appears to be a good option?

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Glad the photos are helpful and We'll look forward to seeing what you construct this year. I'll have to look up those raspberry types.

    I haven't tried soil blocks. I wonder how well they stay together, especially if you move them around the greenhouse from time to time. I just use a variety of 6 packs, 4 packs and myriad plastic pots I've accumulated over time. I start things in very small pots then pot them up after a couple of weeks.

    One thing I'd like to upgrade this year is my plastic flats. They are pretty flimsy, even when you double them up. I wind up moving things around a lot and one of these days I have no doubt that a whole flat of precious seedlings is going to hit the floor. I found some heavy duty plastic trays that look like they'll work a lot better. They aren't in the Johnny's catalog though.

    Johnny's does have a huge array of hoops and row covers this year. I have yet to really settle down and investigate them.

    All the catalogs are arriving now - Territorial came yesterday. Now I have a few months of making dog-eared pages before making the big decisions for this year.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    We decided to order the Mini & Medium hand soil blockers after watching a bunch of you-tube videos yesterday. We were able to get the soil mixture recommended by some from watching the videos. We would like to order some heavy duty no-hole trays - do you have a good source you can recommend for them? One website recommended bussing trays available at restaurant supply sources but the sides come up too high - we think. The trays at Johnny's appear too flimsy as you experienced. We also thought we would purchase an electric grow pad. 20X48" seems the best option?

    I noticed the hoop & row cover options also and watched a bunch of the videos. There are a lot of good options for growing gardens in cold climates when compared to what was available even 10 years ago. The high tunnel appears a good option if a greenhouse is out of the question or to supplement a greenhouse. Think I will stick with the floating row covers though. They seemed to work great for beans, cucumbers & squash.

    Guess I will check out Territorial - I haven't spent enough time doing research in years past - winter gives one more time to prepare for the busy spring/summer. Speaking of having more time in winter here is a fun diversion for which I have a difficult time finding time to do except during the winter and have found it enjoyable - especially for that raspberry jam!
    Double oven bread making:
    {{gwi:310638}}
    {{gwi:310639}}

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    If you are just growing your own cool season greens in the winter (and you should) for your consumption, all you need is a low tunnel/coldframe or three. Market gardeners need the high tunnels.

    {{gwi:14058}}

    IMHO Territorial is more expensive than Johnny's for hoop material and parts.

    Dan

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    I've been using soil blocks for many years. they hold together very well and can easily be moved about. i use a 4 block tool with each block being about 2 1/4 x 2 1/4. i get 50 in a standard flat.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Randy,
    do you start with the mini's? Every video we watch recommend starting with the mini's and moving them to the 2 1/4" because of the germination rate and because so many more mini's can fit on a heating pad and by the time they are moved to the 2 1/4" - the seedlings don't need the heating pad? Also, do you have or see the need for the 4" soil block? Apparently it is the best size for tomatoes, squash etc?

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    I have the mini block maker and find it difficult to make blocks with. i just use the 2 1/4's. i guess if you have all the sizes you can just keep potting up.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    7kft,

    That bread looks unfairly delicious! What a great hobby/skill that is.

    The heavy duty trays are called Perma-Nest. They are rigid plastic and come in lots of sizes. They are 2.5 inches tall, like a regular flat. Although one of the sizes is 3.5 inches tall. (I agree a bussing tray will be too tall) They also make clear plastic domes that fit on top, and the domes come in two heights. I haven't yet decided exactly which sizes to order.

    So far I have used the 9 x 19" heat mat, which is roughly the size of a flat. I have a couple of those. The bigger ones look really nice; the only downside is that you might lose a bit of flexibility in terms of where you place each flat in your greenhouse. How big are your shelves? Will all your flats need the same amount of heat? Then again, having a 4' long heat mat would be pretty nice if you are sure you'll be starting many flats with similar needs and you have the shelf dimensions to work with that.

    I have found that a heat mat used in conjunction with a clear plastic dome over the plants makes a very warm and cozy home for the seedlings. Even if the greenhouse isn't too warm, the plants will be toasty. Some of the domes even have a little vent in them.

    If your greenhouse works out anything like mine, you'll want to put your tomatoes in something larger than 4" in short order. I wind up with mine in gallon pots by early May.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Perma-nest on Amazon

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Hi Karin,
    While I was waiting for your reply I google searched heavy duty propagation trays and found the same thing at Home Harvest: http://homeharvest.com/propagationflatsdomesinserts.htm They are available in tan and green (plastic domes also) at Home Harvest but more expensive than Amazon and Amazon has free shipping. We plan to use our raised beds as shelves (30" depth) so we have room for the larger heat pad. I already ordered the 48" pad so guess we will order smaller ones next year if it doesn't work for us. Do the pads have a temp setting or do we have to purchase the $40 soil probe/thermostat to regulate the temp?

    I'll let you know how the soil blocks work - I am excited to try them and got them ordered today. That was another reason we wanted the heavier propagation tray.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Nice! You are getting after it! :)

    I bet the big size heat mat will be really nice to have. They don't have a thermostat, but nor do they get all that hot. Sometimes I set them on timers so they are not on during the warm part of the day. I do know that if you have the heat mat on, a plastic dome cover on, and it's a sunny day, things will get very hot. But that isn't too hard to avoid. That said, the thermostat would take care of things easily.

    I'll look forward to hearing about how the soil blocks work out. It would be nice to avoid all the plastic pots. If I didn't already own a zillion plastic pots I would be very keen on the soil block approach.

    In the meantime, I will also be pondering which size of those nice trays to get. And what color! Such choices!

    When are you going to start your first seeds?

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    I like Johnny's Seed - Seed Starting Calculator. http://www.johnnyseeds.com/e-PDGSeedStart.aspx??source=HomeSeedCalc0111. I will probably use this calculator this year to determine the planting dates and use Martha Stewart's Seed Starting Worksheet - www.marthastewart.com/seed-worksheet - to keep tract of what I do. I agree with you - I have got to keep better records of what/when I plant and when/what to fertilize. I finally organized an excel worksheet for ordering our vegetable seeds - I think I have that documented for easy seed ordering decisions.

    Here are a couple of photos of our soil sifter (we have rocky soil in places) - we built it to fit our wheel barrow so it does not move once I place it on the wheel barrow. It works pretty good for sifting soil in a small area. I go down the garden row and throw in surface rocks then dump the rocks in my 4-wheel trailer and dump the wheel barrow of dirt back in the garden. Thought it might also come in handy for sifting soil for the Soil block mixture. FYI
    {{gwi:310640}}
    {{gwi:310641}}

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    I like both of those web resources for seed starting. The Johnny's one is particularly cool. I found that the hardest thing was forecasting the frost-free date inside my greenhouse so I could predict when to start plants that are destined to stay inside.

    And yes, a customized Excel sheet is a great way to go! I have an Excel database that starts from the very beginning of our gardens, so I have a pretty good history of what I've planted each year, where it's from and how it did. There are a few gaps though, notably which type of raspberry variety is where. I also have a little bar graph that I use to track the planting dates, exciting weather events, bloom periods and key harvests. Each year I print out the template, then fill in the bars by hand over the relevant dates. This gives a very interesting comparison of your growing climate from year to year. Maybe someday these will be key pieces of climate data?

    The note-taking is also helpful for reflection - it helps you firm up your thoughts.

    Now, your soil screener looks like a very nice tool. I like that it fits firmly on the wheel barrow. What do you do with all the rocky stuff that is left over? Maybe you'll have enough for a stone border? Do you have alkaline soil too? Do you find that your soil gets clumpy, even when it's nice soil? That's something I've noticed lately. Even though the soil is beautifully textured (not clay), it forms hard clumps. I am wondering if this is from alkalinity and the particles being inclined to stick together.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Your method for keeping notes is helpful!

    The Salt River runs through our property (a mild to raging stream depending on the runoff and irrigation needs - so I return the rocks to their rightful owner - the river. We have great soil because we are on an ancient river bed but the bad part is the top soil varies from 0-36" depending on the swells. We tried to locate our garden on deep top soil but still had to haul off large rocks in the beginning and now sift the soil as we plant and haul off the small rocks. I haven't tested our PH but is alkaline soil like yours. It does get clumpy but try to keep it moist during germination and use a lot of mulch to keep the walk areas dry/walkable. We add manure every fall before plowing the garden. We purchased sifted top soil for the GH and added a lot of vermiculite, peat moss & compost - not problems with GH soil.

    Here is a photo of what works well for us to remove rocks from our garden. I purchased this wonderful dumping trailer that hooks on my 4-wheeler. I rake the rocks in a row and use a manure fork to throw them in the trailer - then dump the rocks on the river bed with their cousins.
    {{gwi:310642}}

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    I have used the mini-block maker for years. I use either Jiffy Mix or ProMix with it. With ProMix you may have to throw out a small stick or two, but it holds together fine. I didn't know about the attachment for the medium block maker that makes the hole for the little one to fit into until several years after I bought mine, and I never remember to order it. So I don't use the two blocks together. Some things grow so rapidly that they need to be started in the medium size, but I start all tomato and pepper seeds in the tiny block and pot up to small containers when they get their first real leaves or when they appear to be a good strong seedling.

    Some things I don't need to plant 20 of, so I write the name on a popsicle stick, lay the popsicle stick between the row of blocks and slide the blocks over in groups of five to a small piece of foil. I crimp the foil up a little to hold the stick so I don't lose the name. I don't make real plant markers until I am sure I have good transplants. I make the permanent marker at the time I put them in their first small container. I am much more likely to plant 5 seeds of 4 varieties of tomato than I am to plant 20 of the same kind, so it works well for me.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Would like to know more about the tunnel construction; why the wire mesh instead of pvc or waterline pipe? What is the mesh sizing? Is this welded wire? What size is the wire (#10,12,14)? How easy is it to form the wire? Is it fairly strong, or does it bend easy? Why the gaps between sections of wire? How is the wire secured to the ground? What is the height of the tunnel at the center line? I am very interested in this.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    The mesh is 47" 12 1/2 gauge Field Fence available at most farm supply stores - a full roll is 330' but most stores have smaller rolls as well. I cut the fence in 6' lengths with small bolt cutter or wire cutter and cut the vertical wire such that there is 6" of wire on both sides of the hopes to push into the ground to anchor the fence. The center height is approx. 24". I plant in wide rows of 30". The mesh size is 6" squares (for easy reach-in, weeding etc.) although the bottom couple of rows are a bit smaller. I gap the fence in the rows approx. 18" to reduce the cost and because the row cover does not sag with the gap. I like the fence because it will last many years and I live in a climate where we have had snow every month of the year and periods of hail or strong wind. The fence does an excellent job holding up the weight of the snow and withstanding the wind/hail etc. It pulls out easy at season end and stores by stacking one inside the other. I have never tried PVC pipe so I am not in a position to compare. I am sure this fence method is more expensive but I like the way it performs.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    This Years Broccoli using the tunnel method - keeps out the insects too. I usually plant veggies in the garden with the row cover the 1st week of may or earlier if I can work the soil. Without the row cover, there is a threat of frost until the middle of June and after the end of August. Well worth the effort!

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Thanks! That helped a lot! I Appreciate the follow up.

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  • karin_mt
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That is some deep snow!
    Do the moose get into your pea crop? That would be quite a sight!

  • 7000feet
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    No moose in the peas but we may have to switch from Canby to Heritage raspberries because the deer are eating the branches during the winter taking away our next years producers. I think Heritage can be cut to the ground in the fall and produce raspberries on the same years branch? Speaking of raspberries - I planted quite a few and am ready to build the supports for the plants this year (if I have any left). The rows are 50' long - do you have any experience with that?
    The deer also eat the strawberry plants but no problem there because they don't come from the mountains to eat until winter hits. I am surprised they haven't attacked my hay stack yet - it may be my Auzzie (Molly) that keeps them at distance - I may have to move her to the raspberry patch.

  • karin_mt
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh yes, we have a major raspberry crop too. I think that Heritage is also a 2nd year producer although you get some the first year. The deer eat our canes as well but not enough to noticeably affect the crop.

    I have to go to work now, but I will post later with info about raspberry supports. Raspberries were our first crop that we were able to grow a year round supply.

  • Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes. I've had raspberries as well including 'Heritage'. You can cut everbearing canes to the ground in spring (fall if you have to but let the deer help). I highly recommend either the tallest t-post or galv fence post deep into the ground for support, and designing for your preferred tensioning method for the wire, as the wire will definitely sag.

    Dan

  • 7000feet
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Please post any photos of your raspberry supports, want to do it right the first time - be gone for a day or two - daughter's trying to deliver twins at 24 weeks - appears she may have gotten to the hospital in time and will be there until the twins deliver - everything stable today - hope it is a couple of months - give the twins every possible chance - mom is fine. Appears we will be the beneficiaries of a couple of grandson's staying at our house - one of the positives of this event!
    7kft

  • Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow. Good luck to the preemies.

    The berries were at my last house in WA state - can't get permission from the fam to do a bed here yet so no pix (swing set is higher priority for that space). I have a million pics of the place in WA, but no pix of the supports, alas.

    Nevertheless, IIRC my end posts were 2in galv fence post concreted in and angled 10� from the vertical away from the 25' rows. My center posts were straight vertical. My braces were 3' wide at 2.5 and 5 ft high, each brace had one galv wire on either side of post. It is important to take up inevitable slack with a turnbuckle at each brace (learned the hard way to use multiple turnbuckles - very very windy at that place [under Chinook Pass if that is any clue]) and wire stretches a lot).

    Your bottom brace height will depend on your mower height if you mow down your canes, but shouldn't be too high as you want to ensure the canes grow straight - too much higher and more of your labor will be involved to train canes. Too much wider than 3ft on the wire and picking becomes much harder (YMMV).

    You may also want to invest in a raspberry cane cutter to ease the strain on your back from maintaining that much row footage.

    And since there are so many nice fotos on these threads lately, this is what the raspberries used to look up at every day:

    {{gwi:310628}}

    The extensive flat-concave part of Rainier to the left of the Elk Head all gave way at one time ~5700 years ago, forming a plateau ~270 feet high, upon which now the house and berries flourish.

    Dan

  • karin_mt
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Awesome photo of Mt Rainier! Definitely one of my all time favorite mountains. I can see why raspberries growing with that view would be above average.

    7kft - I hope all goes well with your daughter and the twins. Tell them to stay put, please!

    We don't have photos of our raspberry supports, but I can take some. But a few comments first.

    T-posts? No, no, no. T-posts are ugly. They are great for keeping goats in place and other roughshod tasks, but T-posts have no place in a refined garden and are not fit to mingle with something as sublime as a raspberry. (This is all tongue in cheek, just in case it's not obvious enough!) Galvanized pipe is fine. We used black pipe that is meant for plumbing because it was a bit cheaper and the black color fades right into the background.

    The posts are vertical, spaced probably every ~8 feet along the length of the bed. The width of the bed is 3 feet and there is a row of metal posts at the front and at the back. Basically we made a fence all around the perimeter of each row.

    So far we only put in one support wire to train the canes to, but that is not enough. Next year we'll add a lower one.

    We have little threaded hooks to adjust the wire tension because yes, it stretches. I wish I had unhooked the wires for the winter because I fear a deer will barge through there and bend everything.

    Our whole raspberry crop had a year off last year - all the canes died the previous winter. This was a very sad event for us because we rely on our crop to make a year's worth of jam, a bunch of Christmas gifts, 2-3 gallons of raspberry bounce (vodka), plus a freezer stuffed full of berries to snack on all winter. Not having any of this was a major blow this year. I mean, I had to *buy* jam! The horror!

    But the year off allowed us to clean up the rows and build these supports. This should allow for easier picking and certainly a makes for a less unruly area.

    Dan, your system sounds very nice. There is a similar one described in the book 'Growing Fruits and Vegetables Organically,' by Rodale Press. This book is out of print now but you can find it used online for about $2. The book will tell you just about everything about when to plant, when to harvest, and how to manage a huge array of crops. Anyway, that book has drawings of some nice support systems that sound like what you had.

    Dan, hopefully when your kids get too old for the swingset you can get a raspberry row going again.

  • 7000feet
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Twins still in the oven -twins & mom OK - mom in hospital until they deliver - we hope at least another 4 weeks - thanks for your concerns.

    You have helped with your experience - would you recommend cementing the end posts? Dan mentioned bracing the end posts - maybe I should do that whether I cement the end posts or not. How deep would you recommend the end posts be buried in the ground? How about the line posts? Interested in the threaded hooks (eye/hook bolts/ lags?) What gage of wire (single strand?).

    I agree that T-Posts are not the way to go - but 2" galv fence posts or black pipe would work. I may try using the treated 5" posts and 3" rails that I have left over from building my fences.

    Here is a photo of last summer - this is the first years growth and next years producing canes. I will have a total of 5 rows when we are done. I planted the 3rd row last spring then the 4th & 5th this spring - maybe with that many rows the deer will not eat as many canes? I am planting grass between the rows for easy maintenance and have been spraying "Grass Getter" to kill the grass amongst the raspberries - seemed to work great last year. {{gwi:310629}}

    Great photo of Mt. Rainier Dan - It would be hard to move from that location to move anyway I would think!

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Glad to hear all is ~well and hopefully mom likes white walls and noise at night.

    I concreted in all my posts (frost heave & cheap concrete) and IMHO 2' is fine if you can get lower without too much expense I'd do it, if not you'll likely get by. If you have cheap 1/2" gravel around you could get away with that in place of concrete. Make a form for your angle that you can move from post to post from old 2x4s - the post is the hypotenuse and the top of the post is your 10º, notch the top. I used single-strand wire, don't remember gauge but not thinnest, probably on sale at feed store. If you use a flail mower out there and don't spray your grass, rake up some and put into the rows - they'll thank you for it. I'd have maybe a couple canes that got vole damage because of the cover I created for them, but the nitrogen was worth it, as well as moisture retention - but I had a weasel and snakes and raptors everywhere so they helped out with my critter control so YMMV.

    Whatever you do, don't spend a million dollars as raspberries don't last forever, and when they're done its best to plant in new location. Underneath Mt Rainier is very cloudy - cloudier than Seattle, and I need sunshine so reluctantly had to go. Best bike riding around there imaginable with that staring you in the face.

    Dan, your system sounds very nice. There is a similar one described in the book 'Growing Fruits and Vegetables Organically,' by Rodale Press.

    I'm probably not bright enough to come with that system on my own, so surely I picked it up from someone along the line that adheres to the Rodale methods.

    :o)

    Dan

    P.S.: I just got the new Johnny's seed catalogue - they are selling fabric clips for EMT conduit for 4.95/10 pc. Way cheaper than Territorial. I'd buy some if I hadn't already made my own...

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    I took some photos of our raspberry supports yesterday so I will post them later. Sure enough a deer had snagged one of the wires and bent one of the posts. I don't think the post is actually bent, I think it's just angled in the ground and is now frozen in place. So I took down all the wires for the sake of the deer as well as my nice posts.

    7000ft, your raspberries are off to a lovely start! It sounds like you will have a lot of berries on your hands. Enough to share with deer, and then plenty for canning or freezing. Our rows are spaced similarly. The suckers are aggressive though, so they have jumped all the way into our neighbor's vegetable garden, probably 10 feet away. They are also popping up in my raised beds, which I think I can control by putting weed cloth at the bottom of the raised bed. In between our rows we have landscape fabric and woodchips, and if we didn't have that we'd have one solid mass of canes. I never realized how aggressive they are. But the rapid suckering does keep the row very thick and full.

    I also use a light mulch on the raspberries, and there are soaker hoses along the rows too. With lawn around your rows, I suppose regular mowing will take care of the suckers.

    What is "grass getter"? Is it safe to spray around food crops?

    Dan, how long do raspberries last? We've had ours almost 10 years and I very much want them to stick around.

    I can only imagine how nice the road riding must be around Mt. Rainier. Must be some nice climbs!

    I just found my Johnny's catalog in a big stack of mail. So now I can start dreaming and doodling for next year's plans. :)

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Karin, folks start looking for signs of disease about 7-8-10 years into production, and depending upon weather stress figure a decline in production starting 10-12 years into it. Sometimes a rapid decline. Your Extension doesn't mention this, but mine does and even states you should purposely move the bed. I suspect this has to do with disease prevention before it starts; once the spores are around, they are effective for some distance.

    {{gwi:310630}}

    Dan

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Very helpful - certainly the mulch will help keep the grass down and I have plenty of mulch. Mowing between the rows should control the suckers and keep them where we want them. I think I know what I need to do for supports now that Dan explained how he built his - but interested in your photos Karin. Glad you checked out your raspberry fence - when you took the photos.

    I don't like to use chemicals - as little as possible - but this stuff works to kill unwanted grass in shrubs and hard to get places. It was available from our County Weed & Pest. Recommends not using product 30 days prior to harvest. We used it last year and it did not appear to bother the raspberries. Product comes with a safe list and raspberries are among them.

    I going to look up Johnny's seed catalogue now that both of you mentioned it.
    {{gwi:310631}}

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    OK, here are some photos:

    Overview - basically it's a simple perimeter fence. Instead of making a T like Dan's. we just put in vertical posts at each corner and then every 8' along the row. Next year we'll add a lower strand of wire to catch the shorter canes.
    {{gwi:310633}}

    Close-up of the wire tensioning device - a threaded hook with a nut on the end. Spinning the nut adjusts the tension. The wire is basic fencing wire.
    {{gwi:310635}}

    Summertime view. A William Baffin climbing rose sits at the midpoint in the rows and there is a gap in the raspberry fence here so you can get in between the rows here. This is best done while wearing long sleeves because the rose is even thornier than the raspberries, so it's a bit tricky to negotiate. That said, I wouldn't trade this magnificent rose for anything!
    {{gwi:310636}}

    Time to make jam! This is from the year before last, early August. Yum.
    {{gwi:310637}}
    Thanks for the info from the extension Dan. I can only hope that my crop keeps going for awhile longer, as moving it is not a great option at this point. After all the canes died last winter, things filled in well this year with the exception of one area.

    I have lost track of which varieties I have where. I planted a wide range of them: Boyne, Redwing, Latham, Heritage, Royalty. However I did not keep detailed notes about which type is where, and at this point they have all spread around. I didn't realize that Redwing and Heritage are fall-bearing - all the types produce at similar times for me. Nowadays I keep meticulous notes about everything I plant and so it bugs me that I am relatively clueless about my raspberry types.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Good info - Great pics! Thanks for the close ups on the eyebolts. I'll share pics when I complete the braces next summer. After reading raspberry options on Johnny's seeds - I'm tempted to try Encore & Nova. Also got interested in Soil Blocks - either of you tried making them for planting seeds in GH? Appears to be a good option?

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Glad the photos are helpful and We'll look forward to seeing what you construct this year. I'll have to look up those raspberry types.

    I haven't tried soil blocks. I wonder how well they stay together, especially if you move them around the greenhouse from time to time. I just use a variety of 6 packs, 4 packs and myriad plastic pots I've accumulated over time. I start things in very small pots then pot them up after a couple of weeks.

    One thing I'd like to upgrade this year is my plastic flats. They are pretty flimsy, even when you double them up. I wind up moving things around a lot and one of these days I have no doubt that a whole flat of precious seedlings is going to hit the floor. I found some heavy duty plastic trays that look like they'll work a lot better. They aren't in the Johnny's catalog though.

    Johnny's does have a huge array of hoops and row covers this year. I have yet to really settle down and investigate them.

    All the catalogs are arriving now - Territorial came yesterday. Now I have a few months of making dog-eared pages before making the big decisions for this year.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    We decided to order the Mini & Medium hand soil blockers after watching a bunch of you-tube videos yesterday. We were able to get the soil mixture recommended by some from watching the videos. We would like to order some heavy duty no-hole trays - do you have a good source you can recommend for them? One website recommended bussing trays available at restaurant supply sources but the sides come up too high - we think. The trays at Johnny's appear too flimsy as you experienced. We also thought we would purchase an electric grow pad. 20X48" seems the best option?

    I noticed the hoop & row cover options also and watched a bunch of the videos. There are a lot of good options for growing gardens in cold climates when compared to what was available even 10 years ago. The high tunnel appears a good option if a greenhouse is out of the question or to supplement a greenhouse. Think I will stick with the floating row covers though. They seemed to work great for beans, cucumbers & squash.

    Guess I will check out Territorial - I haven't spent enough time doing research in years past - winter gives one more time to prepare for the busy spring/summer. Speaking of having more time in winter here is a fun diversion for which I have a difficult time finding time to do except during the winter and have found it enjoyable - especially for that raspberry jam!
    Double oven bread making:
    {{gwi:310638}}
    {{gwi:310639}}

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    If you are just growing your own cool season greens in the winter (and you should) for your consumption, all you need is a low tunnel/coldframe or three. Market gardeners need the high tunnels.

    {{gwi:14058}}

    IMHO Territorial is more expensive than Johnny's for hoop material and parts.

    Dan

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    I've been using soil blocks for many years. they hold together very well and can easily be moved about. i use a 4 block tool with each block being about 2 1/4 x 2 1/4. i get 50 in a standard flat.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Randy,
    do you start with the mini's? Every video we watch recommend starting with the mini's and moving them to the 2 1/4" because of the germination rate and because so many more mini's can fit on a heating pad and by the time they are moved to the 2 1/4" - the seedlings don't need the heating pad? Also, do you have or see the need for the 4" soil block? Apparently it is the best size for tomatoes, squash etc?

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    I have the mini block maker and find it difficult to make blocks with. i just use the 2 1/4's. i guess if you have all the sizes you can just keep potting up.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    7kft,

    That bread looks unfairly delicious! What a great hobby/skill that is.

    The heavy duty trays are called Perma-Nest. They are rigid plastic and come in lots of sizes. They are 2.5 inches tall, like a regular flat. Although one of the sizes is 3.5 inches tall. (I agree a bussing tray will be too tall) They also make clear plastic domes that fit on top, and the domes come in two heights. I haven't yet decided exactly which sizes to order.

    So far I have used the 9 x 19" heat mat, which is roughly the size of a flat. I have a couple of those. The bigger ones look really nice; the only downside is that you might lose a bit of flexibility in terms of where you place each flat in your greenhouse. How big are your shelves? Will all your flats need the same amount of heat? Then again, having a 4' long heat mat would be pretty nice if you are sure you'll be starting many flats with similar needs and you have the shelf dimensions to work with that.

    I have found that a heat mat used in conjunction with a clear plastic dome over the plants makes a very warm and cozy home for the seedlings. Even if the greenhouse isn't too warm, the plants will be toasty. Some of the domes even have a little vent in them.

    If your greenhouse works out anything like mine, you'll want to put your tomatoes in something larger than 4" in short order. I wind up with mine in gallon pots by early May.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Perma-nest on Amazon

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Hi Karin,
    While I was waiting for your reply I google searched heavy duty propagation trays and found the same thing at Home Harvest: http://homeharvest.com/propagationflatsdomesinserts.htm They are available in tan and green (plastic domes also) at Home Harvest but more expensive than Amazon and Amazon has free shipping. We plan to use our raised beds as shelves (30" depth) so we have room for the larger heat pad. I already ordered the 48" pad so guess we will order smaller ones next year if it doesn't work for us. Do the pads have a temp setting or do we have to purchase the $40 soil probe/thermostat to regulate the temp?

    I'll let you know how the soil blocks work - I am excited to try them and got them ordered today. That was another reason we wanted the heavier propagation tray.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Nice! You are getting after it! :)

    I bet the big size heat mat will be really nice to have. They don't have a thermostat, but nor do they get all that hot. Sometimes I set them on timers so they are not on during the warm part of the day. I do know that if you have the heat mat on, a plastic dome cover on, and it's a sunny day, things will get very hot. But that isn't too hard to avoid. That said, the thermostat would take care of things easily.

    I'll look forward to hearing about how the soil blocks work out. It would be nice to avoid all the plastic pots. If I didn't already own a zillion plastic pots I would be very keen on the soil block approach.

    In the meantime, I will also be pondering which size of those nice trays to get. And what color! Such choices!

    When are you going to start your first seeds?

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    I like Johnny's Seed - Seed Starting Calculator. http://www.johnnyseeds.com/e-PDGSeedStart.aspx??source=HomeSeedCalc0111. I will probably use this calculator this year to determine the planting dates and use Martha Stewart's Seed Starting Worksheet - www.marthastewart.com/seed-worksheet - to keep tract of what I do. I agree with you - I have got to keep better records of what/when I plant and when/what to fertilize. I finally organized an excel worksheet for ordering our vegetable seeds - I think I have that documented for easy seed ordering decisions.

    Here are a couple of photos of our soil sifter (we have rocky soil in places) - we built it to fit our wheel barrow so it does not move once I place it on the wheel barrow. It works pretty good for sifting soil in a small area. I go down the garden row and throw in surface rocks then dump the rocks in my 4-wheel trailer and dump the wheel barrow of dirt back in the garden. Thought it might also come in handy for sifting soil for the Soil block mixture. FYI
    {{gwi:310640}}
    {{gwi:310641}}

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    I like both of those web resources for seed starting. The Johnny's one is particularly cool. I found that the hardest thing was forecasting the frost-free date inside my greenhouse so I could predict when to start plants that are destined to stay inside.

    And yes, a customized Excel sheet is a great way to go! I have an Excel database that starts from the very beginning of our gardens, so I have a pretty good history of what I've planted each year, where it's from and how it did. There are a few gaps though, notably which type of raspberry variety is where. I also have a little bar graph that I use to track the planting dates, exciting weather events, bloom periods and key harvests. Each year I print out the template, then fill in the bars by hand over the relevant dates. This gives a very interesting comparison of your growing climate from year to year. Maybe someday these will be key pieces of climate data?

    The note-taking is also helpful for reflection - it helps you firm up your thoughts.

    Now, your soil screener looks like a very nice tool. I like that it fits firmly on the wheel barrow. What do you do with all the rocky stuff that is left over? Maybe you'll have enough for a stone border? Do you have alkaline soil too? Do you find that your soil gets clumpy, even when it's nice soil? That's something I've noticed lately. Even though the soil is beautifully textured (not clay), it forms hard clumps. I am wondering if this is from alkalinity and the particles being inclined to stick together.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Your method for keeping notes is helpful!

    The Salt River runs through our property (a mild to raging stream depending on the runoff and irrigation needs - so I return the rocks to their rightful owner - the river. We have great soil because we are on an ancient river bed but the bad part is the top soil varies from 0-36" depending on the swells. We tried to locate our garden on deep top soil but still had to haul off large rocks in the beginning and now sift the soil as we plant and haul off the small rocks. I haven't tested our PH but is alkaline soil like yours. It does get clumpy but try to keep it moist during germination and use a lot of mulch to keep the walk areas dry/walkable. We add manure every fall before plowing the garden. We purchased sifted top soil for the GH and added a lot of vermiculite, peat moss & compost - not problems with GH soil.

    Here is a photo of what works well for us to remove rocks from our garden. I purchased this wonderful dumping trailer that hooks on my 4-wheeler. I rake the rocks in a row and use a manure fork to throw them in the trailer - then dump the rocks on the river bed with their cousins.
    {{gwi:310642}}

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    I have used the mini-block maker for years. I use either Jiffy Mix or ProMix with it. With ProMix you may have to throw out a small stick or two, but it holds together fine. I didn't know about the attachment for the medium block maker that makes the hole for the little one to fit into until several years after I bought mine, and I never remember to order it. So I don't use the two blocks together. Some things grow so rapidly that they need to be started in the medium size, but I start all tomato and pepper seeds in the tiny block and pot up to small containers when they get their first real leaves or when they appear to be a good strong seedling.

    Some things I don't need to plant 20 of, so I write the name on a popsicle stick, lay the popsicle stick between the row of blocks and slide the blocks over in groups of five to a small piece of foil. I crimp the foil up a little to hold the stick so I don't lose the name. I don't make real plant markers until I am sure I have good transplants. I make the permanent marker at the time I put them in their first small container. I am much more likely to plant 5 seeds of 4 varieties of tomato than I am to plant 20 of the same kind, so it works well for me.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Would like to know more about the tunnel construction; why the wire mesh instead of pvc or waterline pipe? What is the mesh sizing? Is this welded wire? What size is the wire (#10,12,14)? How easy is it to form the wire? Is it fairly strong, or does it bend easy? Why the gaps between sections of wire? How is the wire secured to the ground? What is the height of the tunnel at the center line? I am very interested in this.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    The mesh is 47" 12 1/2 gauge Field Fence available at most farm supply stores - a full roll is 330' but most stores have smaller rolls as well. I cut the fence in 6' lengths with small bolt cutter or wire cutter and cut the vertical wire such that there is 6" of wire on both sides of the hopes to push into the ground to anchor the fence. The center height is approx. 24". I plant in wide rows of 30". The mesh size is 6" squares (for easy reach-in, weeding etc.) although the bottom couple of rows are a bit smaller. I gap the fence in the rows approx. 18" to reduce the cost and because the row cover does not sag with the gap. I like the fence because it will last many years and I live in a climate where we have had snow every month of the year and periods of hail or strong wind. The fence does an excellent job holding up the weight of the snow and withstanding the wind/hail etc. It pulls out easy at season end and stores by stacking one inside the other. I have never tried PVC pipe so I am not in a position to compare. I am sure this fence method is more expensive but I like the way it performs.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    This Years Broccoli using the tunnel method - keeps out the insects too. I usually plant veggies in the garden with the row cover the 1st week of may or earlier if I can work the soil. Without the row cover, there is a threat of frost until the middle of June and after the end of August. Well worth the effort!

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Thanks! That helped a lot! I Appreciate the follow up.

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  • Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Glad to hear all is ~well and hopefully mom likes white walls and noise at night.

    I concreted in all my posts (frost heave & cheap concrete) and IMHO 2' is fine if you can get lower without too much expense I'd do it, if not you'll likely get by. If you have cheap 1/2" gravel around you could get away with that in place of concrete. Make a form for your angle that you can move from post to post from old 2x4s - the post is the hypotenuse and the top of the post is your 10º, notch the top. I used single-strand wire, don't remember gauge but not thinnest, probably on sale at feed store. If you use a flail mower out there and don't spray your grass, rake up some and put into the rows - they'll thank you for it. I'd have maybe a couple canes that got vole damage because of the cover I created for them, but the nitrogen was worth it, as well as moisture retention - but I had a weasel and snakes and raptors everywhere so they helped out with my critter control so YMMV.

    Whatever you do, don't spend a million dollars as raspberries don't last forever, and when they're done its best to plant in new location. Underneath Mt Rainier is very cloudy - cloudier than Seattle, and I need sunshine so reluctantly had to go. Best bike riding around there imaginable with that staring you in the face.

    Dan, your system sounds very nice. There is a similar one described in the book 'Growing Fruits and Vegetables Organically,' by Rodale Press.

    I'm probably not bright enough to come with that system on my own, so surely I picked it up from someone along the line that adheres to the Rodale methods.

    :o)

    Dan

    P.S.: I just got the new Johnny's seed catalogue - they are selling fabric clips for EMT conduit for 4.95/10 pc. Way cheaper than Territorial. I'd buy some if I hadn't already made my own...

  • karin_mt
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I took some photos of our raspberry supports yesterday so I will post them later. Sure enough a deer had snagged one of the wires and bent one of the posts. I don't think the post is actually bent, I think it's just angled in the ground and is now frozen in place. So I took down all the wires for the sake of the deer as well as my nice posts.

    7000ft, your raspberries are off to a lovely start! It sounds like you will have a lot of berries on your hands. Enough to share with deer, and then plenty for canning or freezing. Our rows are spaced similarly. The suckers are aggressive though, so they have jumped all the way into our neighbor's vegetable garden, probably 10 feet away. They are also popping up in my raised beds, which I think I can control by putting weed cloth at the bottom of the raised bed. In between our rows we have landscape fabric and woodchips, and if we didn't have that we'd have one solid mass of canes. I never realized how aggressive they are. But the rapid suckering does keep the row very thick and full.

    I also use a light mulch on the raspberries, and there are soaker hoses along the rows too. With lawn around your rows, I suppose regular mowing will take care of the suckers.

    What is "grass getter"? Is it safe to spray around food crops?

    Dan, how long do raspberries last? We've had ours almost 10 years and I very much want them to stick around.

    I can only imagine how nice the road riding must be around Mt. Rainier. Must be some nice climbs!

    I just found my Johnny's catalog in a big stack of mail. So now I can start dreaming and doodling for next year's plans. :)

  • Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Karin, folks start looking for signs of disease about 7-8-10 years into production, and depending upon weather stress figure a decline in production starting 10-12 years into it. Sometimes a rapid decline. Your Extension doesn't mention this, but mine does and even states you should purposely move the bed. I suspect this has to do with disease prevention before it starts; once the spores are around, they are effective for some distance.

    {{gwi:310630}}

    Dan

  • 7000feet
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Very helpful - certainly the mulch will help keep the grass down and I have plenty of mulch. Mowing between the rows should control the suckers and keep them where we want them. I think I know what I need to do for supports now that Dan explained how he built his - but interested in your photos Karin. Glad you checked out your raspberry fence - when you took the photos.

    I don't like to use chemicals - as little as possible - but this stuff works to kill unwanted grass in shrubs and hard to get places. It was available from our County Weed & Pest. Recommends not using product 30 days prior to harvest. We used it last year and it did not appear to bother the raspberries. Product comes with a safe list and raspberries are among them.

    I going to look up Johnny's seed catalogue now that both of you mentioned it.
    {{gwi:310631}}

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    OK, here are some photos:

    Overview - basically it's a simple perimeter fence. Instead of making a T like Dan's. we just put in vertical posts at each corner and then every 8' along the row. Next year we'll add a lower strand of wire to catch the shorter canes.
    {{gwi:310633}}

    Close-up of the wire tensioning device - a threaded hook with a nut on the end. Spinning the nut adjusts the tension. The wire is basic fencing wire.
    {{gwi:310635}}

    Summertime view. A William Baffin climbing rose sits at the midpoint in the rows and there is a gap in the raspberry fence here so you can get in between the rows here. This is best done while wearing long sleeves because the rose is even thornier than the raspberries, so it's a bit tricky to negotiate. That said, I wouldn't trade this magnificent rose for anything!
    {{gwi:310636}}

    Time to make jam! This is from the year before last, early August. Yum.
    {{gwi:310637}}
    Thanks for the info from the extension Dan. I can only hope that my crop keeps going for awhile longer, as moving it is not a great option at this point. After all the canes died last winter, things filled in well this year with the exception of one area.

    I have lost track of which varieties I have where. I planted a wide range of them: Boyne, Redwing, Latham, Heritage, Royalty. However I did not keep detailed notes about which type is where, and at this point they have all spread around. I didn't realize that Redwing and Heritage are fall-bearing - all the types produce at similar times for me. Nowadays I keep meticulous notes about everything I plant and so it bugs me that I am relatively clueless about my raspberry types.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Good info - Great pics! Thanks for the close ups on the eyebolts. I'll share pics when I complete the braces next summer. After reading raspberry options on Johnny's seeds - I'm tempted to try Encore & Nova. Also got interested in Soil Blocks - either of you tried making them for planting seeds in GH? Appears to be a good option?

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Glad the photos are helpful and We'll look forward to seeing what you construct this year. I'll have to look up those raspberry types.

    I haven't tried soil blocks. I wonder how well they stay together, especially if you move them around the greenhouse from time to time. I just use a variety of 6 packs, 4 packs and myriad plastic pots I've accumulated over time. I start things in very small pots then pot them up after a couple of weeks.

    One thing I'd like to upgrade this year is my plastic flats. They are pretty flimsy, even when you double them up. I wind up moving things around a lot and one of these days I have no doubt that a whole flat of precious seedlings is going to hit the floor. I found some heavy duty plastic trays that look like they'll work a lot better. They aren't in the Johnny's catalog though.

    Johnny's does have a huge array of hoops and row covers this year. I have yet to really settle down and investigate them.

    All the catalogs are arriving now - Territorial came yesterday. Now I have a few months of making dog-eared pages before making the big decisions for this year.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    We decided to order the Mini & Medium hand soil blockers after watching a bunch of you-tube videos yesterday. We were able to get the soil mixture recommended by some from watching the videos. We would like to order some heavy duty no-hole trays - do you have a good source you can recommend for them? One website recommended bussing trays available at restaurant supply sources but the sides come up too high - we think. The trays at Johnny's appear too flimsy as you experienced. We also thought we would purchase an electric grow pad. 20X48" seems the best option?

    I noticed the hoop & row cover options also and watched a bunch of the videos. There are a lot of good options for growing gardens in cold climates when compared to what was available even 10 years ago. The high tunnel appears a good option if a greenhouse is out of the question or to supplement a greenhouse. Think I will stick with the floating row covers though. They seemed to work great for beans, cucumbers & squash.

    Guess I will check out Territorial - I haven't spent enough time doing research in years past - winter gives one more time to prepare for the busy spring/summer. Speaking of having more time in winter here is a fun diversion for which I have a difficult time finding time to do except during the winter and have found it enjoyable - especially for that raspberry jam!
    Double oven bread making:
    {{gwi:310638}}
    {{gwi:310639}}

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    If you are just growing your own cool season greens in the winter (and you should) for your consumption, all you need is a low tunnel/coldframe or three. Market gardeners need the high tunnels.

    {{gwi:14058}}

    IMHO Territorial is more expensive than Johnny's for hoop material and parts.

    Dan

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    I've been using soil blocks for many years. they hold together very well and can easily be moved about. i use a 4 block tool with each block being about 2 1/4 x 2 1/4. i get 50 in a standard flat.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Randy,
    do you start with the mini's? Every video we watch recommend starting with the mini's and moving them to the 2 1/4" because of the germination rate and because so many more mini's can fit on a heating pad and by the time they are moved to the 2 1/4" - the seedlings don't need the heating pad? Also, do you have or see the need for the 4" soil block? Apparently it is the best size for tomatoes, squash etc?

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    I have the mini block maker and find it difficult to make blocks with. i just use the 2 1/4's. i guess if you have all the sizes you can just keep potting up.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    7kft,

    That bread looks unfairly delicious! What a great hobby/skill that is.

    The heavy duty trays are called Perma-Nest. They are rigid plastic and come in lots of sizes. They are 2.5 inches tall, like a regular flat. Although one of the sizes is 3.5 inches tall. (I agree a bussing tray will be too tall) They also make clear plastic domes that fit on top, and the domes come in two heights. I haven't yet decided exactly which sizes to order.

    So far I have used the 9 x 19" heat mat, which is roughly the size of a flat. I have a couple of those. The bigger ones look really nice; the only downside is that you might lose a bit of flexibility in terms of where you place each flat in your greenhouse. How big are your shelves? Will all your flats need the same amount of heat? Then again, having a 4' long heat mat would be pretty nice if you are sure you'll be starting many flats with similar needs and you have the shelf dimensions to work with that.

    I have found that a heat mat used in conjunction with a clear plastic dome over the plants makes a very warm and cozy home for the seedlings. Even if the greenhouse isn't too warm, the plants will be toasty. Some of the domes even have a little vent in them.

    If your greenhouse works out anything like mine, you'll want to put your tomatoes in something larger than 4" in short order. I wind up with mine in gallon pots by early May.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Perma-nest on Amazon

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Hi Karin,
    While I was waiting for your reply I google searched heavy duty propagation trays and found the same thing at Home Harvest: http://homeharvest.com/propagationflatsdomesinserts.htm They are available in tan and green (plastic domes also) at Home Harvest but more expensive than Amazon and Amazon has free shipping. We plan to use our raised beds as shelves (30" depth) so we have room for the larger heat pad. I already ordered the 48" pad so guess we will order smaller ones next year if it doesn't work for us. Do the pads have a temp setting or do we have to purchase the $40 soil probe/thermostat to regulate the temp?

    I'll let you know how the soil blocks work - I am excited to try them and got them ordered today. That was another reason we wanted the heavier propagation tray.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Nice! You are getting after it! :)

    I bet the big size heat mat will be really nice to have. They don't have a thermostat, but nor do they get all that hot. Sometimes I set them on timers so they are not on during the warm part of the day. I do know that if you have the heat mat on, a plastic dome cover on, and it's a sunny day, things will get very hot. But that isn't too hard to avoid. That said, the thermostat would take care of things easily.

    I'll look forward to hearing about how the soil blocks work out. It would be nice to avoid all the plastic pots. If I didn't already own a zillion plastic pots I would be very keen on the soil block approach.

    In the meantime, I will also be pondering which size of those nice trays to get. And what color! Such choices!

    When are you going to start your first seeds?

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    I like Johnny's Seed - Seed Starting Calculator. http://www.johnnyseeds.com/e-PDGSeedStart.aspx??source=HomeSeedCalc0111. I will probably use this calculator this year to determine the planting dates and use Martha Stewart's Seed Starting Worksheet - www.marthastewart.com/seed-worksheet - to keep tract of what I do. I agree with you - I have got to keep better records of what/when I plant and when/what to fertilize. I finally organized an excel worksheet for ordering our vegetable seeds - I think I have that documented for easy seed ordering decisions.

    Here are a couple of photos of our soil sifter (we have rocky soil in places) - we built it to fit our wheel barrow so it does not move once I place it on the wheel barrow. It works pretty good for sifting soil in a small area. I go down the garden row and throw in surface rocks then dump the rocks in my 4-wheel trailer and dump the wheel barrow of dirt back in the garden. Thought it might also come in handy for sifting soil for the Soil block mixture. FYI
    {{gwi:310640}}
    {{gwi:310641}}

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    I like both of those web resources for seed starting. The Johnny's one is particularly cool. I found that the hardest thing was forecasting the frost-free date inside my greenhouse so I could predict when to start plants that are destined to stay inside.

    And yes, a customized Excel sheet is a great way to go! I have an Excel database that starts from the very beginning of our gardens, so I have a pretty good history of what I've planted each year, where it's from and how it did. There are a few gaps though, notably which type of raspberry variety is where. I also have a little bar graph that I use to track the planting dates, exciting weather events, bloom periods and key harvests. Each year I print out the template, then fill in the bars by hand over the relevant dates. This gives a very interesting comparison of your growing climate from year to year. Maybe someday these will be key pieces of climate data?

    The note-taking is also helpful for reflection - it helps you firm up your thoughts.

    Now, your soil screener looks like a very nice tool. I like that it fits firmly on the wheel barrow. What do you do with all the rocky stuff that is left over? Maybe you'll have enough for a stone border? Do you have alkaline soil too? Do you find that your soil gets clumpy, even when it's nice soil? That's something I've noticed lately. Even though the soil is beautifully textured (not clay), it forms hard clumps. I am wondering if this is from alkalinity and the particles being inclined to stick together.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Your method for keeping notes is helpful!

    The Salt River runs through our property (a mild to raging stream depending on the runoff and irrigation needs - so I return the rocks to their rightful owner - the river. We have great soil because we are on an ancient river bed but the bad part is the top soil varies from 0-36" depending on the swells. We tried to locate our garden on deep top soil but still had to haul off large rocks in the beginning and now sift the soil as we plant and haul off the small rocks. I haven't tested our PH but is alkaline soil like yours. It does get clumpy but try to keep it moist during germination and use a lot of mulch to keep the walk areas dry/walkable. We add manure every fall before plowing the garden. We purchased sifted top soil for the GH and added a lot of vermiculite, peat moss & compost - not problems with GH soil.

    Here is a photo of what works well for us to remove rocks from our garden. I purchased this wonderful dumping trailer that hooks on my 4-wheeler. I rake the rocks in a row and use a manure fork to throw them in the trailer - then dump the rocks on the river bed with their cousins.
    {{gwi:310642}}

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    I have used the mini-block maker for years. I use either Jiffy Mix or ProMix with it. With ProMix you may have to throw out a small stick or two, but it holds together fine. I didn't know about the attachment for the medium block maker that makes the hole for the little one to fit into until several years after I bought mine, and I never remember to order it. So I don't use the two blocks together. Some things grow so rapidly that they need to be started in the medium size, but I start all tomato and pepper seeds in the tiny block and pot up to small containers when they get their first real leaves or when they appear to be a good strong seedling.

    Some things I don't need to plant 20 of, so I write the name on a popsicle stick, lay the popsicle stick between the row of blocks and slide the blocks over in groups of five to a small piece of foil. I crimp the foil up a little to hold the stick so I don't lose the name. I don't make real plant markers until I am sure I have good transplants. I make the permanent marker at the time I put them in their first small container. I am much more likely to plant 5 seeds of 4 varieties of tomato than I am to plant 20 of the same kind, so it works well for me.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Would like to know more about the tunnel construction; why the wire mesh instead of pvc or waterline pipe? What is the mesh sizing? Is this welded wire? What size is the wire (#10,12,14)? How easy is it to form the wire? Is it fairly strong, or does it bend easy? Why the gaps between sections of wire? How is the wire secured to the ground? What is the height of the tunnel at the center line? I am very interested in this.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    The mesh is 47" 12 1/2 gauge Field Fence available at most farm supply stores - a full roll is 330' but most stores have smaller rolls as well. I cut the fence in 6' lengths with small bolt cutter or wire cutter and cut the vertical wire such that there is 6" of wire on both sides of the hopes to push into the ground to anchor the fence. The center height is approx. 24". I plant in wide rows of 30". The mesh size is 6" squares (for easy reach-in, weeding etc.) although the bottom couple of rows are a bit smaller. I gap the fence in the rows approx. 18" to reduce the cost and because the row cover does not sag with the gap. I like the fence because it will last many years and I live in a climate where we have had snow every month of the year and periods of hail or strong wind. The fence does an excellent job holding up the weight of the snow and withstanding the wind/hail etc. It pulls out easy at season end and stores by stacking one inside the other. I have never tried PVC pipe so I am not in a position to compare. I am sure this fence method is more expensive but I like the way it performs.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    This Years Broccoli using the tunnel method - keeps out the insects too. I usually plant veggies in the garden with the row cover the 1st week of may or earlier if I can work the soil. Without the row cover, there is a threat of frost until the middle of June and after the end of August. Well worth the effort!

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Thanks! That helped a lot! I Appreciate the follow up.

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  • karin_mt
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    OK, here are some photos:

    Overview - basically it's a simple perimeter fence. Instead of making a T like Dan's. we just put in vertical posts at each corner and then every 8' along the row. Next year we'll add a lower strand of wire to catch the shorter canes.
    {{gwi:310633}}

    Close-up of the wire tensioning device - a threaded hook with a nut on the end. Spinning the nut adjusts the tension. The wire is basic fencing wire.
    {{gwi:310635}}

    Summertime view. A William Baffin climbing rose sits at the midpoint in the rows and there is a gap in the raspberry fence here so you can get in between the rows here. This is best done while wearing long sleeves because the rose is even thornier than the raspberries, so it's a bit tricky to negotiate. That said, I wouldn't trade this magnificent rose for anything!
    {{gwi:310636}}

    Time to make jam! This is from the year before last, early August. Yum.
    {{gwi:310637}}
    Thanks for the info from the extension Dan. I can only hope that my crop keeps going for awhile longer, as moving it is not a great option at this point. After all the canes died last winter, things filled in well this year with the exception of one area.

    I have lost track of which varieties I have where. I planted a wide range of them: Boyne, Redwing, Latham, Heritage, Royalty. However I did not keep detailed notes about which type is where, and at this point they have all spread around. I didn't realize that Redwing and Heritage are fall-bearing - all the types produce at similar times for me. Nowadays I keep meticulous notes about everything I plant and so it bugs me that I am relatively clueless about my raspberry types.

  • 7000feet
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Good info - Great pics! Thanks for the close ups on the eyebolts. I'll share pics when I complete the braces next summer. After reading raspberry options on Johnny's seeds - I'm tempted to try Encore & Nova. Also got interested in Soil Blocks - either of you tried making them for planting seeds in GH? Appears to be a good option?

  • karin_mt
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Glad the photos are helpful and We'll look forward to seeing what you construct this year. I'll have to look up those raspberry types.

    I haven't tried soil blocks. I wonder how well they stay together, especially if you move them around the greenhouse from time to time. I just use a variety of 6 packs, 4 packs and myriad plastic pots I've accumulated over time. I start things in very small pots then pot them up after a couple of weeks.

    One thing I'd like to upgrade this year is my plastic flats. They are pretty flimsy, even when you double them up. I wind up moving things around a lot and one of these days I have no doubt that a whole flat of precious seedlings is going to hit the floor. I found some heavy duty plastic trays that look like they'll work a lot better. They aren't in the Johnny's catalog though.

    Johnny's does have a huge array of hoops and row covers this year. I have yet to really settle down and investigate them.

    All the catalogs are arriving now - Territorial came yesterday. Now I have a few months of making dog-eared pages before making the big decisions for this year.

  • 7000feet
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We decided to order the Mini & Medium hand soil blockers after watching a bunch of you-tube videos yesterday. We were able to get the soil mixture recommended by some from watching the videos. We would like to order some heavy duty no-hole trays - do you have a good source you can recommend for them? One website recommended bussing trays available at restaurant supply sources but the sides come up too high - we think. The trays at Johnny's appear too flimsy as you experienced. We also thought we would purchase an electric grow pad. 20X48" seems the best option?

    I noticed the hoop & row cover options also and watched a bunch of the videos. There are a lot of good options for growing gardens in cold climates when compared to what was available even 10 years ago. The high tunnel appears a good option if a greenhouse is out of the question or to supplement a greenhouse. Think I will stick with the floating row covers though. They seemed to work great for beans, cucumbers & squash.

    Guess I will check out Territorial - I haven't spent enough time doing research in years past - winter gives one more time to prepare for the busy spring/summer. Speaking of having more time in winter here is a fun diversion for which I have a difficult time finding time to do except during the winter and have found it enjoyable - especially for that raspberry jam!
    Double oven bread making:
    {{gwi:310638}}
    {{gwi:310639}}

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    If you are just growing your own cool season greens in the winter (and you should) for your consumption, all you need is a low tunnel/coldframe or three. Market gardeners need the high tunnels.

    {{gwi:14058}}

    IMHO Territorial is more expensive than Johnny's for hoop material and parts.

    Dan

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    I've been using soil blocks for many years. they hold together very well and can easily be moved about. i use a 4 block tool with each block being about 2 1/4 x 2 1/4. i get 50 in a standard flat.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Randy,
    do you start with the mini's? Every video we watch recommend starting with the mini's and moving them to the 2 1/4" because of the germination rate and because so many more mini's can fit on a heating pad and by the time they are moved to the 2 1/4" - the seedlings don't need the heating pad? Also, do you have or see the need for the 4" soil block? Apparently it is the best size for tomatoes, squash etc?

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    I have the mini block maker and find it difficult to make blocks with. i just use the 2 1/4's. i guess if you have all the sizes you can just keep potting up.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    7kft,

    That bread looks unfairly delicious! What a great hobby/skill that is.

    The heavy duty trays are called Perma-Nest. They are rigid plastic and come in lots of sizes. They are 2.5 inches tall, like a regular flat. Although one of the sizes is 3.5 inches tall. (I agree a bussing tray will be too tall) They also make clear plastic domes that fit on top, and the domes come in two heights. I haven't yet decided exactly which sizes to order.

    So far I have used the 9 x 19" heat mat, which is roughly the size of a flat. I have a couple of those. The bigger ones look really nice; the only downside is that you might lose a bit of flexibility in terms of where you place each flat in your greenhouse. How big are your shelves? Will all your flats need the same amount of heat? Then again, having a 4' long heat mat would be pretty nice if you are sure you'll be starting many flats with similar needs and you have the shelf dimensions to work with that.

    I have found that a heat mat used in conjunction with a clear plastic dome over the plants makes a very warm and cozy home for the seedlings. Even if the greenhouse isn't too warm, the plants will be toasty. Some of the domes even have a little vent in them.

    If your greenhouse works out anything like mine, you'll want to put your tomatoes in something larger than 4" in short order. I wind up with mine in gallon pots by early May.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Perma-nest on Amazon

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Hi Karin,
    While I was waiting for your reply I google searched heavy duty propagation trays and found the same thing at Home Harvest: http://homeharvest.com/propagationflatsdomesinserts.htm They are available in tan and green (plastic domes also) at Home Harvest but more expensive than Amazon and Amazon has free shipping. We plan to use our raised beds as shelves (30" depth) so we have room for the larger heat pad. I already ordered the 48" pad so guess we will order smaller ones next year if it doesn't work for us. Do the pads have a temp setting or do we have to purchase the $40 soil probe/thermostat to regulate the temp?

    I'll let you know how the soil blocks work - I am excited to try them and got them ordered today. That was another reason we wanted the heavier propagation tray.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Nice! You are getting after it! :)

    I bet the big size heat mat will be really nice to have. They don't have a thermostat, but nor do they get all that hot. Sometimes I set them on timers so they are not on during the warm part of the day. I do know that if you have the heat mat on, a plastic dome cover on, and it's a sunny day, things will get very hot. But that isn't too hard to avoid. That said, the thermostat would take care of things easily.

    I'll look forward to hearing about how the soil blocks work out. It would be nice to avoid all the plastic pots. If I didn't already own a zillion plastic pots I would be very keen on the soil block approach.

    In the meantime, I will also be pondering which size of those nice trays to get. And what color! Such choices!

    When are you going to start your first seeds?

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    I like Johnny's Seed - Seed Starting Calculator. http://www.johnnyseeds.com/e-PDGSeedStart.aspx??source=HomeSeedCalc0111. I will probably use this calculator this year to determine the planting dates and use Martha Stewart's Seed Starting Worksheet - www.marthastewart.com/seed-worksheet - to keep tract of what I do. I agree with you - I have got to keep better records of what/when I plant and when/what to fertilize. I finally organized an excel worksheet for ordering our vegetable seeds - I think I have that documented for easy seed ordering decisions.

    Here are a couple of photos of our soil sifter (we have rocky soil in places) - we built it to fit our wheel barrow so it does not move once I place it on the wheel barrow. It works pretty good for sifting soil in a small area. I go down the garden row and throw in surface rocks then dump the rocks in my 4-wheel trailer and dump the wheel barrow of dirt back in the garden. Thought it might also come in handy for sifting soil for the Soil block mixture. FYI
    {{gwi:310640}}
    {{gwi:310641}}

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    I like both of those web resources for seed starting. The Johnny's one is particularly cool. I found that the hardest thing was forecasting the frost-free date inside my greenhouse so I could predict when to start plants that are destined to stay inside.

    And yes, a customized Excel sheet is a great way to go! I have an Excel database that starts from the very beginning of our gardens, so I have a pretty good history of what I've planted each year, where it's from and how it did. There are a few gaps though, notably which type of raspberry variety is where. I also have a little bar graph that I use to track the planting dates, exciting weather events, bloom periods and key harvests. Each year I print out the template, then fill in the bars by hand over the relevant dates. This gives a very interesting comparison of your growing climate from year to year. Maybe someday these will be key pieces of climate data?

    The note-taking is also helpful for reflection - it helps you firm up your thoughts.

    Now, your soil screener looks like a very nice tool. I like that it fits firmly on the wheel barrow. What do you do with all the rocky stuff that is left over? Maybe you'll have enough for a stone border? Do you have alkaline soil too? Do you find that your soil gets clumpy, even when it's nice soil? That's something I've noticed lately. Even though the soil is beautifully textured (not clay), it forms hard clumps. I am wondering if this is from alkalinity and the particles being inclined to stick together.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Your method for keeping notes is helpful!

    The Salt River runs through our property (a mild to raging stream depending on the runoff and irrigation needs - so I return the rocks to their rightful owner - the river. We have great soil because we are on an ancient river bed but the bad part is the top soil varies from 0-36" depending on the swells. We tried to locate our garden on deep top soil but still had to haul off large rocks in the beginning and now sift the soil as we plant and haul off the small rocks. I haven't tested our PH but is alkaline soil like yours. It does get clumpy but try to keep it moist during germination and use a lot of mulch to keep the walk areas dry/walkable. We add manure every fall before plowing the garden. We purchased sifted top soil for the GH and added a lot of vermiculite, peat moss & compost - not problems with GH soil.

    Here is a photo of what works well for us to remove rocks from our garden. I purchased this wonderful dumping trailer that hooks on my 4-wheeler. I rake the rocks in a row and use a manure fork to throw them in the trailer - then dump the rocks on the river bed with their cousins.
    {{gwi:310642}}

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    I have used the mini-block maker for years. I use either Jiffy Mix or ProMix with it. With ProMix you may have to throw out a small stick or two, but it holds together fine. I didn't know about the attachment for the medium block maker that makes the hole for the little one to fit into until several years after I bought mine, and I never remember to order it. So I don't use the two blocks together. Some things grow so rapidly that they need to be started in the medium size, but I start all tomato and pepper seeds in the tiny block and pot up to small containers when they get their first real leaves or when they appear to be a good strong seedling.

    Some things I don't need to plant 20 of, so I write the name on a popsicle stick, lay the popsicle stick between the row of blocks and slide the blocks over in groups of five to a small piece of foil. I crimp the foil up a little to hold the stick so I don't lose the name. I don't make real plant markers until I am sure I have good transplants. I make the permanent marker at the time I put them in their first small container. I am much more likely to plant 5 seeds of 4 varieties of tomato than I am to plant 20 of the same kind, so it works well for me.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Would like to know more about the tunnel construction; why the wire mesh instead of pvc or waterline pipe? What is the mesh sizing? Is this welded wire? What size is the wire (#10,12,14)? How easy is it to form the wire? Is it fairly strong, or does it bend easy? Why the gaps between sections of wire? How is the wire secured to the ground? What is the height of the tunnel at the center line? I am very interested in this.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    The mesh is 47" 12 1/2 gauge Field Fence available at most farm supply stores - a full roll is 330' but most stores have smaller rolls as well. I cut the fence in 6' lengths with small bolt cutter or wire cutter and cut the vertical wire such that there is 6" of wire on both sides of the hopes to push into the ground to anchor the fence. The center height is approx. 24". I plant in wide rows of 30". The mesh size is 6" squares (for easy reach-in, weeding etc.) although the bottom couple of rows are a bit smaller. I gap the fence in the rows approx. 18" to reduce the cost and because the row cover does not sag with the gap. I like the fence because it will last many years and I live in a climate where we have had snow every month of the year and periods of hail or strong wind. The fence does an excellent job holding up the weight of the snow and withstanding the wind/hail etc. It pulls out easy at season end and stores by stacking one inside the other. I have never tried PVC pipe so I am not in a position to compare. I am sure this fence method is more expensive but I like the way it performs.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    This Years Broccoli using the tunnel method - keeps out the insects too. I usually plant veggies in the garden with the row cover the 1st week of may or earlier if I can work the soil. Without the row cover, there is a threat of frost until the middle of June and after the end of August. Well worth the effort!

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Thanks! That helped a lot! I Appreciate the follow up.

    Post a Follow-Up
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    Here is a link that might be useful: Perma-nest on Amazon

  • Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If you are just growing your own cool season greens in the winter (and you should) for your consumption, all you need is a low tunnel/coldframe or three. Market gardeners need the high tunnels.

    {{gwi:14058}}

    IMHO Territorial is more expensive than Johnny's for hoop material and parts.

    Dan

  • randy41_1
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I've been using soil blocks for many years. they hold together very well and can easily be moved about. i use a 4 block tool with each block being about 2 1/4 x 2 1/4. i get 50 in a standard flat.

  • 7000feet
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Randy,
    do you start with the mini's? Every video we watch recommend starting with the mini's and moving them to the 2 1/4" because of the germination rate and because so many more mini's can fit on a heating pad and by the time they are moved to the 2 1/4" - the seedlings don't need the heating pad? Also, do you have or see the need for the 4" soil block? Apparently it is the best size for tomatoes, squash etc?

  • randy41_1
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have the mini block maker and find it difficult to make blocks with. i just use the 2 1/4's. i guess if you have all the sizes you can just keep potting up.

  • karin_mt
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    7kft,

    That bread looks unfairly delicious! What a great hobby/skill that is.

    The heavy duty trays are called Perma-Nest. They are rigid plastic and come in lots of sizes. They are 2.5 inches tall, like a regular flat. Although one of the sizes is 3.5 inches tall. (I agree a bussing tray will be too tall) They also make clear plastic domes that fit on top, and the domes come in two heights. I haven't yet decided exactly which sizes to order.

    So far I have used the 9 x 19" heat mat, which is roughly the size of a flat. I have a couple of those. The bigger ones look really nice; the only downside is that you might lose a bit of flexibility in terms of where you place each flat in your greenhouse. How big are your shelves? Will all your flats need the same amount of heat? Then again, having a 4' long heat mat would be pretty nice if you are sure you'll be starting many flats with similar needs and you have the shelf dimensions to work with that.

    I have found that a heat mat used in conjunction with a clear plastic dome over the plants makes a very warm and cozy home for the seedlings. Even if the greenhouse isn't too warm, the plants will be toasty. Some of the domes even have a little vent in them.

    If your greenhouse works out anything like mine, you'll want to put your tomatoes in something larger than 4" in short order. I wind up with mine in gallon pots by early May.

  • 7000feet
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Karin,
    While I was waiting for your reply I google searched heavy duty propagation trays and found the same thing at Home Harvest: http://homeharvest.com/propagationflatsdomesinserts.htm They are available in tan and green (plastic domes also) at Home Harvest but more expensive than Amazon and Amazon has free shipping. We plan to use our raised beds as shelves (30" depth) so we have room for the larger heat pad. I already ordered the 48" pad so guess we will order smaller ones next year if it doesn't work for us. Do the pads have a temp setting or do we have to purchase the $40 soil probe/thermostat to regulate the temp?

    I'll let you know how the soil blocks work - I am excited to try them and got them ordered today. That was another reason we wanted the heavier propagation tray.

  • karin_mt
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Nice! You are getting after it! :)

    I bet the big size heat mat will be really nice to have. They don't have a thermostat, but nor do they get all that hot. Sometimes I set them on timers so they are not on during the warm part of the day. I do know that if you have the heat mat on, a plastic dome cover on, and it's a sunny day, things will get very hot. But that isn't too hard to avoid. That said, the thermostat would take care of things easily.

    I'll look forward to hearing about how the soil blocks work out. It would be nice to avoid all the plastic pots. If I didn't already own a zillion plastic pots I would be very keen on the soil block approach.

    In the meantime, I will also be pondering which size of those nice trays to get. And what color! Such choices!

    When are you going to start your first seeds?

  • 7000feet
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I like Johnny's Seed - Seed Starting Calculator. http://www.johnnyseeds.com/e-PDGSeedStart.aspx??source=HomeSeedCalc0111. I will probably use this calculator this year to determine the planting dates and use Martha Stewart's Seed Starting Worksheet - www.marthastewart.com/seed-worksheet - to keep tract of what I do. I agree with you - I have got to keep better records of what/when I plant and when/what to fertilize. I finally organized an excel worksheet for ordering our vegetable seeds - I think I have that documented for easy seed ordering decisions.

    Here are a couple of photos of our soil sifter (we have rocky soil in places) - we built it to fit our wheel barrow so it does not move once I place it on the wheel barrow. It works pretty good for sifting soil in a small area. I go down the garden row and throw in surface rocks then dump the rocks in my 4-wheel trailer and dump the wheel barrow of dirt back in the garden. Thought it might also come in handy for sifting soil for the Soil block mixture. FYI
    {{gwi:310640}}
    {{gwi:310641}}

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    I like both of those web resources for seed starting. The Johnny's one is particularly cool. I found that the hardest thing was forecasting the frost-free date inside my greenhouse so I could predict when to start plants that are destined to stay inside.

    And yes, a customized Excel sheet is a great way to go! I have an Excel database that starts from the very beginning of our gardens, so I have a pretty good history of what I've planted each year, where it's from and how it did. There are a few gaps though, notably which type of raspberry variety is where. I also have a little bar graph that I use to track the planting dates, exciting weather events, bloom periods and key harvests. Each year I print out the template, then fill in the bars by hand over the relevant dates. This gives a very interesting comparison of your growing climate from year to year. Maybe someday these will be key pieces of climate data?

    The note-taking is also helpful for reflection - it helps you firm up your thoughts.

    Now, your soil screener looks like a very nice tool. I like that it fits firmly on the wheel barrow. What do you do with all the rocky stuff that is left over? Maybe you'll have enough for a stone border? Do you have alkaline soil too? Do you find that your soil gets clumpy, even when it's nice soil? That's something I've noticed lately. Even though the soil is beautifully textured (not clay), it forms hard clumps. I am wondering if this is from alkalinity and the particles being inclined to stick together.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Your method for keeping notes is helpful!

    The Salt River runs through our property (a mild to raging stream depending on the runoff and irrigation needs - so I return the rocks to their rightful owner - the river. We have great soil because we are on an ancient river bed but the bad part is the top soil varies from 0-36" depending on the swells. We tried to locate our garden on deep top soil but still had to haul off large rocks in the beginning and now sift the soil as we plant and haul off the small rocks. I haven't tested our PH but is alkaline soil like yours. It does get clumpy but try to keep it moist during germination and use a lot of mulch to keep the walk areas dry/walkable. We add manure every fall before plowing the garden. We purchased sifted top soil for the GH and added a lot of vermiculite, peat moss & compost - not problems with GH soil.

    Here is a photo of what works well for us to remove rocks from our garden. I purchased this wonderful dumping trailer that hooks on my 4-wheeler. I rake the rocks in a row and use a manure fork to throw them in the trailer - then dump the rocks on the river bed with their cousins.
    {{gwi:310642}}

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    I have used the mini-block maker for years. I use either Jiffy Mix or ProMix with it. With ProMix you may have to throw out a small stick or two, but it holds together fine. I didn't know about the attachment for the medium block maker that makes the hole for the little one to fit into until several years after I bought mine, and I never remember to order it. So I don't use the two blocks together. Some things grow so rapidly that they need to be started in the medium size, but I start all tomato and pepper seeds in the tiny block and pot up to small containers when they get their first real leaves or when they appear to be a good strong seedling.

    Some things I don't need to plant 20 of, so I write the name on a popsicle stick, lay the popsicle stick between the row of blocks and slide the blocks over in groups of five to a small piece of foil. I crimp the foil up a little to hold the stick so I don't lose the name. I don't make real plant markers until I am sure I have good transplants. I make the permanent marker at the time I put them in their first small container. I am much more likely to plant 5 seeds of 4 varieties of tomato than I am to plant 20 of the same kind, so it works well for me.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Would like to know more about the tunnel construction; why the wire mesh instead of pvc or waterline pipe? What is the mesh sizing? Is this welded wire? What size is the wire (#10,12,14)? How easy is it to form the wire? Is it fairly strong, or does it bend easy? Why the gaps between sections of wire? How is the wire secured to the ground? What is the height of the tunnel at the center line? I am very interested in this.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    The mesh is 47" 12 1/2 gauge Field Fence available at most farm supply stores - a full roll is 330' but most stores have smaller rolls as well. I cut the fence in 6' lengths with small bolt cutter or wire cutter and cut the vertical wire such that there is 6" of wire on both sides of the hopes to push into the ground to anchor the fence. The center height is approx. 24". I plant in wide rows of 30". The mesh size is 6" squares (for easy reach-in, weeding etc.) although the bottom couple of rows are a bit smaller. I gap the fence in the rows approx. 18" to reduce the cost and because the row cover does not sag with the gap. I like the fence because it will last many years and I live in a climate where we have had snow every month of the year and periods of hail or strong wind. The fence does an excellent job holding up the weight of the snow and withstanding the wind/hail etc. It pulls out easy at season end and stores by stacking one inside the other. I have never tried PVC pipe so I am not in a position to compare. I am sure this fence method is more expensive but I like the way it performs.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    This Years Broccoli using the tunnel method - keeps out the insects too. I usually plant veggies in the garden with the row cover the 1st week of may or earlier if I can work the soil. Without the row cover, there is a threat of frost until the middle of June and after the end of August. Well worth the effort!

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Thanks! That helped a lot! I Appreciate the follow up.

    Post a Follow-Up
    Your Name:

    Your Email Address:

    Zone (optional):

    Subject of Posting:

    Message:

    Optional Link URL:

    Name of the Link:

    A copy of further followups will be emailed to this poster.
    Return to the Greenhouses & Garden Structures Forum

  • karin_mt
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I like both of those web resources for seed starting. The Johnny's one is particularly cool. I found that the hardest thing was forecasting the frost-free date inside my greenhouse so I could predict when to start plants that are destined to stay inside.

    And yes, a customized Excel sheet is a great way to go! I have an Excel database that starts from the very beginning of our gardens, so I have a pretty good history of what I've planted each year, where it's from and how it did. There are a few gaps though, notably which type of raspberry variety is where. I also have a little bar graph that I use to track the planting dates, exciting weather events, bloom periods and key harvests. Each year I print out the template, then fill in the bars by hand over the relevant dates. This gives a very interesting comparison of your growing climate from year to year. Maybe someday these will be key pieces of climate data?

    The note-taking is also helpful for reflection - it helps you firm up your thoughts.

    Now, your soil screener looks like a very nice tool. I like that it fits firmly on the wheel barrow. What do you do with all the rocky stuff that is left over? Maybe you'll have enough for a stone border? Do you have alkaline soil too? Do you find that your soil gets clumpy, even when it's nice soil? That's something I've noticed lately. Even though the soil is beautifully textured (not clay), it forms hard clumps. I am wondering if this is from alkalinity and the particles being inclined to stick together.

  • 7000feet
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Your method for keeping notes is helpful!

    The Salt River runs through our property (a mild to raging stream depending on the runoff and irrigation needs - so I return the rocks to their rightful owner - the river. We have great soil because we are on an ancient river bed but the bad part is the top soil varies from 0-36" depending on the swells. We tried to locate our garden on deep top soil but still had to haul off large rocks in the beginning and now sift the soil as we plant and haul off the small rocks. I haven't tested our PH but is alkaline soil like yours. It does get clumpy but try to keep it moist during germination and use a lot of mulch to keep the walk areas dry/walkable. We add manure every fall before plowing the garden. We purchased sifted top soil for the GH and added a lot of vermiculite, peat moss & compost - not problems with GH soil.

    Here is a photo of what works well for us to remove rocks from our garden. I purchased this wonderful dumping trailer that hooks on my 4-wheeler. I rake the rocks in a row and use a manure fork to throw them in the trailer - then dump the rocks on the river bed with their cousins.
    {{gwi:310642}}

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    I have used the mini-block maker for years. I use either Jiffy Mix or ProMix with it. With ProMix you may have to throw out a small stick or two, but it holds together fine. I didn't know about the attachment for the medium block maker that makes the hole for the little one to fit into until several years after I bought mine, and I never remember to order it. So I don't use the two blocks together. Some things grow so rapidly that they need to be started in the medium size, but I start all tomato and pepper seeds in the tiny block and pot up to small containers when they get their first real leaves or when they appear to be a good strong seedling.

    Some things I don't need to plant 20 of, so I write the name on a popsicle stick, lay the popsicle stick between the row of blocks and slide the blocks over in groups of five to a small piece of foil. I crimp the foil up a little to hold the stick so I don't lose the name. I don't make real plant markers until I am sure I have good transplants. I make the permanent marker at the time I put them in their first small container. I am much more likely to plant 5 seeds of 4 varieties of tomato than I am to plant 20 of the same kind, so it works well for me.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Would like to know more about the tunnel construction; why the wire mesh instead of pvc or waterline pipe? What is the mesh sizing? Is this welded wire? What size is the wire (#10,12,14)? How easy is it to form the wire? Is it fairly strong, or does it bend easy? Why the gaps between sections of wire? How is the wire secured to the ground? What is the height of the tunnel at the center line? I am very interested in this.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    The mesh is 47" 12 1/2 gauge Field Fence available at most farm supply stores - a full roll is 330' but most stores have smaller rolls as well. I cut the fence in 6' lengths with small bolt cutter or wire cutter and cut the vertical wire such that there is 6" of wire on both sides of the hopes to push into the ground to anchor the fence. The center height is approx. 24". I plant in wide rows of 30". The mesh size is 6" squares (for easy reach-in, weeding etc.) although the bottom couple of rows are a bit smaller. I gap the fence in the rows approx. 18" to reduce the cost and because the row cover does not sag with the gap. I like the fence because it will last many years and I live in a climate where we have had snow every month of the year and periods of hail or strong wind. The fence does an excellent job holding up the weight of the snow and withstanding the wind/hail etc. It pulls out easy at season end and stores by stacking one inside the other. I have never tried PVC pipe so I am not in a position to compare. I am sure this fence method is more expensive but I like the way it performs.

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    This Years Broccoli using the tunnel method - keeps out the insects too. I usually plant veggies in the garden with the row cover the 1st week of may or earlier if I can work the soil. Without the row cover, there is a threat of frost until the middle of June and after the end of August. Well worth the effort!

    RE: Row Cover Gardening

    Thanks! That helped a lot! I Appreciate the follow up.

    Post a Follow-Up
    Your Name:

    Your Email Address:

    Zone (optional):

    Subject of Posting:

    Message:

    Optional Link URL:

    Name of the Link:

    A copy of further followups will be emailed to this poster.
    Return to the Greenhouses & Garden Structures Forum

  • soonergrandmom
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have used the mini-block maker for years. I use either Jiffy Mix or ProMix with it. With ProMix you may have to throw out a small stick or two, but it holds together fine. I didn't know about the attachment for the medium block maker that makes the hole for the little one to fit into until several years after I bought mine, and I never remember to order it. So I don't use the two blocks together. Some things grow so rapidly that they need to be started in the medium size, but I start all tomato and pepper seeds in the tiny block and pot up to small containers when they get their first real leaves or when they appear to be a good strong seedling.

    Some things I don't need to plant 20 of, so I write the name on a popsicle stick, lay the popsicle stick between the row of blocks and slide the blocks over in groups of five to a small piece of foil. I crimp the foil up a little to hold the stick so I don't lose the name. I don't make real plant markers until I am sure I have good transplants. I make the permanent marker at the time I put them in their first small container. I am much more likely to plant 5 seeds of 4 varieties of tomato than I am to plant 20 of the same kind, so it works well for me.

  • ngrrsn
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Would like to know more about the tunnel construction; why the wire mesh instead of pvc or waterline pipe? What is the mesh sizing? Is this welded wire? What size is the wire (#10,12,14)? How easy is it to form the wire? Is it fairly strong, or does it bend easy? Why the gaps between sections of wire? How is the wire secured to the ground? What is the height of the tunnel at the center line? I am very interested in this.

  • hudson___wy
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The mesh is 47" 12 1/2 gauge Field Fence available at most farm supply stores - a full roll is 330' but most stores have smaller rolls as well. I cut the fence in 6' lengths with small bolt cutter or wire cutter and cut the vertical wire such that there is 6" of wire on both sides of the hopes to push into the ground to anchor the fence. The center height is approx. 24". I plant in wide rows of 30". The mesh size is 6" squares (for easy reach-in, weeding etc.) although the bottom couple of rows are a bit smaller. I gap the fence in the rows approx. 18" to reduce the cost and because the row cover does not sag with the gap. I like the fence because it will last many years and I live in a climate where we have had snow every month of the year and periods of hail or strong wind. The fence does an excellent job holding up the weight of the snow and withstanding the wind/hail etc. It pulls out easy at season end and stores by stacking one inside the other. I have never tried PVC pipe so I am not in a position to compare. I am sure this fence method is more expensive but I like the way it performs.

  • hudson___wy
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This Years Broccoli using the tunnel method - keeps out the insects too. I usually plant veggies in the garden with the row cover the 1st week of may or earlier if I can work the soil. Without the row cover, there is a threat of frost until the middle of June and after the end of August. Well worth the effort!

  • ngrrsn
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks! That helped a lot! I Appreciate the follow up.

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