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Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

Posted by lisak93445 z8 CA (My Page) on
Mon, Apr 25, 05 at 12:42

My husband bought me an old troy-bilt tiller (we think its a Horse but it has been sand blasted and painted so the stickers are gone) The motor starts right up, the tillers move, the pulley (missing one belt) turns fine. Our problem is the transmission. It doesn't go... We've taken the lid off the gear box, all the gears look great, the pulley moves each gear as I would assume it should, the gear grease looks almost new -nice and clean. Does anyone know why the wheels aren't moving on the thing? or know anything about where I can get my hands on an exploded diagram so we can attempt to fix it? The lever that I'm assuming changes gears from forward/backward and neutral only moves a tiny bit - we can see it moving inside but we can't see the axel or how it engages the wheels. Any help you can offer me on how to get started so I can play with my new toy? Thanks!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

sounds like the shifter is stuck in neutral. My old Horse shifts hard but it shifts. May be the shift linkage is bound up. try a google search for troybuilt manuals. I'm pretty sure you can still get some parts from MTD for the old ones. My father bought a few shafts and new tines for his just recently.


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

If yours has the 2 speed transmission, it sometimes is hard to get the high/ low lever to move. You have to have the engine running most times to do that. Also, make sure the drive belts are tightening up when you move the big handle down. This handle puts it into drive gear. It has the block, and a cam that has to move too. Also, try pushing up hard on the big handle, to make it go backward!
The engine must move up and down on the two thick vertical rods where the engine is mounted, when you move the forward/ reverse handle up or down!When the engine moves upwards,and the handle moves down, that tightens the drive belts, and the machine goes forwards! The opposite occurs when you move the big handle up, the belts loosen, and either a fiber wheel or a rubber wheel contacts the pulleys on the engine and makes the machine go backwards! It takes a firm push on the main drive handle, the curved one, with the cam and block, to make it work.
I will look up my sheets on the horse i had. Maybe i can tell you what is inside that might keep it from moving! but, try my suggestions first!
by: Rustyj
P.S. The machine must have both belts on it to perform correctly!


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

At the rear of the tiller; are 2 levers.
The one on the left is the for forward and reverse with a detent for neutral in between.

The one on the right is for low and hi speed.
It sounds as though you have the hi-lo one in neutral.
Moving the lever up will put it in hi; pulling down will put it in lo.

The thing is that neutral; is a wide area. when you push down to low; you must push the tiller forward just a little bit manually for the gears to mesh. The same is true with hi speed (In other words, rock the tiller to and fro as you put pressure on the handle).

If the tiller is in neutral; then with the motor off; the tiller can be rocked forward or back.
Once it engages low or hi gear it will no longer be able to be rocked or pushed forward (or backward)

Test this with the tiller not running for safety.

By the way its probably not missing a belt. Some models use one belt as an additional speed adjustment.
Let us know what you find.
-br


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

I usually have to rock mine to go from high to low speed, but the lever should move fully upward or downward.


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

Hi,
I am looking for a cast iron hub that the rim of the tire is bolted on to, and it also slides on to the wheel axel, for an older (than 1980) 6hp troy bilt tiller
Does any one have one sitting around ,or know where I can find one? They don't make alot of these parts any more.
Thanks-Canaryvine


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

Don't Troy Bilts still have a lifetime warranty on everything except the engine? The shroud and shift lever broke on my Horse rototiller several years ago (might have been ten years ago) and they sent me new parts free of charge. I believe they also had a rebuilding program where you sent them your rototiller with the engine removed and they rebuilt it or replaced it for a fixed fee, but I don't remember how much.


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

Lifetime is only lifetime if the company stays in business. I believe it is now owned by MTD.


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

I know a fellow that has a dead one in his back yard.....email me to remind me to look if you don't find one on the web,and I'll drive over and take a pic...

Jim


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

It probably has a bullet in it.


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

Contact me and I can e-mail you and exploded diagram if you need it.
Fish


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

I recently obtained an old 2 speed Horse and water has found it's way into the gearbox. My problem is disassembling the transmission, I can't seem to get the wheel axle out although it will slide side to side after I removed the cir-clips. Can anyone share with me the secret/trick to totally disassembling the gearbox and or where I can find a repair manual. I have alot information (the bible on troy-bilt) but it stops short of maintenance on the transmission itself. Thanks


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

Can someone give me a web site for parts? My troy bilt is leaking at I guess it would be called the pumpkin were the drive go to the tines is it just an o-ring in there or what?


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

Here you go, here are a couple. I've ordered from both, received them timely and they worked well. Anything I didn't find, I had no problem getting from my Cub/Troy-Bilt dealer.

http://wss.lookupparts.com/Scripts/EmpartISAPI.dll?MF

Here is a link that might be useful: zacm


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

For the manuals for your tiller, follow the link below. In the model number spot, type 21A682J063 for the 8hp horse, or 21AE682L063 for the 10 hp horse. In serial number, you can enter yours if you want, or just type in 1. To see a list of all tiller manuals, just type 21 into model number--all tillers begin with 21. All of the manuals are available there.

Here is a link that might be useful: MTD manuals


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another

A direct link.

Here is a link that might be useful: Here's the link for the 8 hp horse owner's manual.


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

to:rpmarriott, your june 11, 05 transmission question. Did you ever determine how to remove the axel shaft?. Does anyone know how to shim the transmission pinion shaft and axel shaft. My service manual gives specifics on how to shim the drive shaft, but stops there. I assume Troy-Bilt did not intend for owners to get too deep into the tranny.economics sometime dictate.
Fish did you in your trouy-built past ever have the pleasure of rebuilding a transmission.
thanks
Doolittle


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

Yes.

Fish


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

On the subject of transmissions: I have stripped down a Troy-bilt hourse trans and share my wisdom with anyone who wants to notice and learn. I posted 'Troy-bilt bronze gear failure'. This is kind of a post-mortem of the machine; I just can't justify rebuilding a 32 year old machine with all the wear I have found.

How to remove AXLE SHAFT:

I would not try to do any of this until you have removed the belts, engine, cast engine mount from the front end of the machine and the handle bars, shift lever and hood removed and set aside and drained the trans oil. You want to have the wheels and tines off (the tines have nuts right at the center of their hub. Think of taking the lug nuts off your car rim, but there is only one nut. Give the wrench a swift tap with a hammer after loosening with some penetrating oil and the whole tine assembly comes off easily, one side at a time.) You want the "trans" sitting up on a table you could rig up with a couple saw horses.

They tell ya in the owner's manual to just give up trying to save the oil seals; you'll destroy them getting them out. They suggest digging into the thin metal of the seal and kind of "dig" them out of the counterbore that they were seated into. If you have gone this far, you might as well invest in one of those snap ring pliers that open when you close the handle (opposite of what plier teeth do). Hardware stores or even Sears carry them. Use this versatile tool to open up the snap rings that had been hidden by the seals. There are two rings, one on either side of the trans.

There should be a couple of loose shims on either end of the shaft after the snap rings are off, but don't worry about trying to extract them, they will fall out when the axle is extracted.

To get the axle off, an expert will tell you that on one of the gears there is a dot or punch mark on the right-hand gear (right standing behind the unit). You can turn the main drive pully by hand (you may have to shift the unit to get things to turn). I tried to tap the shaft out with a hammer (very light, coaxing taps) once this dot aligned with a line on the inside of the casing but it would not go until I tapped lightly WHILE turning the main drive pulley by hand until the woodruf notch in all gears lined up. I noticed that one gear advanced farther than another due to the 2 speed trans so you should get the idea; at some point the slot that the woodruf key occupies is going to line up so that you can drive the axle out, I think toward the right side of the trans.

Another explaination is that you want to shift the machine so that the shifting fork slides to the left, driving the larger, left-hand gear. This turns the clutch (the object sandwiched between the two biggest gears in the trans) independent of the smaller gear, allowing the woodruf notch in the clutch and smaller gear to align and the shaft can now be driven out the right of the trans. But you will be able to detect the "sweet" point of alignment by lightly tapping the left hand end of the axle shaft while the clutch advances.

I answered my own question that I asked on the above ref. post as to why my seals were leaking so much oil. Combination of severe wear and corrosion on the main wheel axle and severe wear on the brass bushings were the culprit. The bushings had worn on their inside, top surface where the weight of the axle bears about 1/32 inch of eccentricity. This allowed the axle to wobble and the outside end of the bushings dug mercilessly into the shaft and all of this compromised the effectiveness of the SECOND set of seals that I had put on the machine in the last ten years.

Wow! maybe I should retire, get myself a vending license and source for Troy-bilt parts and repair them for a living!

How to remove GEAR SPUR and SPLINE assembly:

This assembly and the previous discussion I could not find in my old Garden Way/Troy-bilt owner's manual, except for the oil seal removal and re-installation.

There are two main hints that I will share if you have had the interest to stay with me this far: First, you will want to drive the spiral pins out of the plug pinion bearings. (The pinions are ear-like plugs protruding from the trans near the top and front of the trans case. You might recall having removed some linkages that are bolted into the threaded hole in their center.) If your trans case is like mine, the spiral pins may be masked by dirt and oil. They are driven into about 3/16" dia holes appearing top dead center of bosses protruding from the trans housing on either side.

Now the pinion bearings can be coaxed out with perhaps turns from a vise grip. Start with the right hand pinion. Secondly, once the right-hand pinion is removed, you may be able to coax the left pinion out by carefully driving the gear spline towards the left with a flat-ended rod and hammer. Drive right in the center, avoid hitting the bearing race. The gear spline shaft exits I think only out the left side of the trans case. This frees up the brass worm gear/gear spur assembly. They have a very heavy snap ring keeping them as one unit.

That's it, "Troy-bilt trans 101 class" all for free, folks, use my advice at your own risk, but I think it has merit.


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

Hi "old dufus"
You are the firstperson I have followed that knew where the bath room was, I want to thank you for your detailed report on how to rebuild a Troy Bilt transmission, Posted Aug.18th.2006. I am right in the middle of rebuilding a Troy Horse and you have hit the nail right on the head.I would enjoy talking to you if you have the time, I'm an old man (81) but still going strong.
Thank you
Houston


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

Thanks, Houston!

I figure the time I spend with these things might as well benefit someone else, I have a hidden gift to teach and there is no class or pupils to share my wisdom with. I made up "olddufus" for the sake of this site, I thought it was kind of cute, considering the wild ride my Troy-bilt horse made down the storm cellar steps that I described in my post about the bronze gear failure.

I'm actually 54, but to many of the "kids" out there, I'm already "old", so it's all relative. I laugh at those comments that news media people make about a ball player being all washed up at the age of 30, but they are really serious about it, can you imagine?

Yes, I'd be glad to talk. I've sent you an E-mail, looking forward to hearing from you.


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

Oh, I almost forgot to add on the subject of axle removal:

Only remove the brass bushings if you suspect they have worn excessively. If your horse doesn't leak trans fluid at the axle, you are fortunate to have a "younger" model. I am convinced that leakage around the axle shaft is almost assuredly a sign of brass bearing wear or abrasions, cuts, dents or just plain wear on the shaft itself. If you are planning on salvaging your machine, you might want to have a replacement pair handy as the methods below might mess up the ends of the soft brass bushings. I noticed they have a couple "half holes" notched into their inside face and I don't know their function...

Those brass bushings I was able to drive out from the inside of the trans case using the following unorthodox method. I suspended a hammer down into the trans case with the hammer head resting on the inside end of one of the brass bushings. Then proceeded to hammer and tap on the claws of the hammer with another hammer. Its something I've seen fellas do in a pinch and it goes against all the manuals on tool useage because of the danger of flying pieces of hardened steel from the hammer claws, but use goggles or your own discretion.

A safer, conventional way might be to saw a short cylinder from a galvanized pipe. I'm not sure, but you may find that 3/4" ID (it probably approaches 1 inch OD) galvanized pipe will do. Cut perhaps a 1 inch length and file the end smooth to a nice flat surface. Use this to drive the bearings out (that's assuming the pipe OD matches the bearing OD), but you will have very little room to get a hammer or mallet on the end.

Someone out there may suggest that the bearings can be driven INTO the casing from the outside, and that would be immensly easier, I just don't have any manuals detailed enough to inform me if that's an option. It does seem the more proper method...there does not appear to be any "seat" that the bearings land on, they appear to be press fit until they are roughly flush with the casing outer walls such that the shims and retaining snap rings can be attached when the axle is reassembled... And, using galvanized pipe is my "poor man's" option. Mechanics probably have special hardened steel pins to do this work.


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

If anyone needs help with the shift lever and shaft with O-rings and/or the eccentric fork and its shaft, see the following link and tillerjohn's question:

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tools/msg0821561829754.html?30856

I had quite a time getting the lever off of the shaft with O-rings. The ideal would have been a wheel puller, but the "hands" would not fit in the tight clearance between the lever and the casing. So I found that a tapered chisel with about 20 degree included angle worked by forming a wedge between the lever boss and the casing, applied as near the shaft as possible.


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

All manuals and trans repair manuals can be found thru www.mtdproducts.com
As for the Lifetime warranties.MTD will honor going back 10 years with a receipt defective parts.The government states that no company can garauntee a product for Life.Most states recognize 10 years as the max.Yes, Troybilt may have stretched that past 10 years,but that and others reasons where contributors to its bankrupcy.


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

  • Posted by ccrb1 z5 IND (My Page) on
    Fri, Sep 28, 07 at 13:01

I have an econo horse, and the pulley coming out of the front of the gearbox slides in and out. If it needs a shim, it sounds like a cheap repair, but MTD is no help with manual pdfs or advice.

Is there someone out there who can help me?


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

I have read oldduff suggestion about removing the troy axle I have found the mark on the inside of the trans case but cant find the mark on the gear. Is it on the gear itself or on the hub?


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

Please ignore my previous posting. I was able to get the axle out this afternoon. My puzzlement was how was the woodruff key going to get out and it turns out that once you get the key lined up with the slot in the gear that driving the axle out takes the bushing with it. I don't know how I expected the key to get out of there. Anyway all is well now. Thanks for listening to my problem
Billk


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

I have an 8 hp Horse model, about 1983, that is stuck in low gear and will not come out of low. It used to shift speeds quite easily, but starting sometime last year, it just won't come out of low. Doesn't seem to be the linkage as it moves quite easily.

Any opinions at to the LIKELY cause of this?? Or will I just have to take the transmission apart to find the cause?
Ron


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller engine pulley

I just got an early horse to bring back to life. the engine pulley was off because it needed a reverse disc(fiber). It has the original tecunseh 6hp withn 3/4 inch shaft, but pulley that came with it is 1 inch. Is this correct pulley? Does it require a spacer. Can it be updated to rubber reverse disc?


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

Its 3/4 inch pulley there no spacer and yes you can change to rubber disc this take different pulley there are update kit to do this. 10 normal start with 1 inch shaft you can find kit at this link

Here is a link that might be useful: reverse kit


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

i bought a used troybuilt horse PTO with an 8hp kohler engine. I want to drain the gearoil and refill. I found 2 fill plugs. One is near the handle mounts and the other is inside the left wheel. cant someone tell me what gearoil I should use and how do I drain the gearoil? I cant seem to find any drain plugs. Thanks in advance


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

The manual on my old horse calls for either 90wt. or 140wt. gear oil. As far as i know there is no drain hole, at least on mine i could never find one. I've never found any place in the manual about draining the transmission oil, but it would seem there should be a way to do it.


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

you take off pto attacment to drain take out fill plug standup until drains. with pto off transmission drain by lowering handles the oil level plugs removed to let air in so drain faster fill hole take bolt out that swivel handle bars turn handle bars may help drain transmission. I sujest doing this with low gas in tank and at or between oil change so all fluid be out. In my zone 85-140 is best stright 140 to thick and will stall engine if try move tiller and loads belt to hard I put 140 in one mind had take out to thick 140 take up a lot space in these small bearing act like brake on engine.


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

HELP! Working with tiller today and rear tines just quit. Front wheel pulling great. But rear tines just rolling along. Has always seeped oil a bit next to gearbox? on rear betwen tines. Need help diagnosing and fixing. Is this a fairly easy fix? Oil level was fine last week? Box between tines hot and was smoking a bit which means oil low? Can this be low with transmission with OK oil? I am confused and would appreciate help on getting started fixing it. I am fair with tools, but not an expert on diagnosing. Usually if I can tear it down I can put it back.


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

For bigalcarman, beside the transmission fill hole cleared by removing the bolt holding the handle assembly, there is a transmission oil level check plug which you found inside the wheel, below that plug and below the wheel axel is the transmission oil drain plug; there is an additional clutch fork shaft plug which should drain most of the transmission oil but there would be no reason to use it.
I would also like to change gear oil in our Troy-Bilt Horse (Serial # 378818), but have been unable to find a SAE 140 gear oil which we were confident would not attack the brass bearings. The following is from a previous forum: "According to the manual, the tillers are shipped with 6 1/2 pints of SAE140 gear oil. As for the GL4 vs GL5 debate, GL4 is recommended in the newer manuals for the transmissions. GL5 is specifically NOT recommended. AFAIK, GL4 does NOT have the sulfur additives alluded to by others (I worked in a transmission shop 20 years ago, and we used GL4 (recommended by the manufacturer) in manual transmissions that had brass synchros."


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RE: Troy-bilt 'old horse'tiller--tine gear(worm?) needed

the brass gear (called a worm gear, I think) that turns the tines is gone. any ideas where and how I can get a replacement? the serial # of my old horse is 547276. thanks


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

My tines also just froze while tilling Wheel moved in free wheel. Read posts and that has helped. Now I am up to removing Cast Iron hub removed bolt but Cast must be frozen on soaked it in PO and have it hanging to free it up.Am I correct that shaft and gears are one piece? I have replaced the old motor with a 6.5HP from Harbor Freight fit perfectly easy job but same frozen part problem machine was bought new in 1972


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Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

I just bought an old troy tiller and have a few questions.

All of the stickers are gone and I would like to know what year it is. I have the serial number.

My problem is that when I am tilling with it, it keeps wanting to kick out of low gear and into high gear.Does anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks in advance


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RE: Troy-bilt tiller 'garden way' transmission question

We inherited a Troy-Bilt tiller with Gardenway TH 1018 on the tiller and a B&S engine # 171437, prob 1992 built. Engine runs great, tines move forward & back, but not fast enough to do more than make a scratch on the ground. Looks like a place for 2 belts, but only one there. Need 2nd belt? Also, don't see any levers for the tine and wheel speeds to be run separately. Only tillers I'm familiar with are the front tine models where you have to pull back really hard to make it dig in. Shouldn't the tires and weight of the machine do that work for me? Any help would be appreciated. Have a friend that "dabbles" in mechanics, but we need a manual or something. -- THANKS!


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