I think you will get your best support by joining and posting at this message-board. I have experienced Un-Real support. Loger
http://forums.iboats.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24

loger,
Thanks, I had found this or another outboard specialized forums while browsing yesterday. Just kind of hate to "register" on too many web sites... a bit nervous about bad guys. But, given one recommendation I'll give it a try.

I posted your question and will forward any responses. I understand you concern about message-boards and participate on 3. What are the dangers related to the bad guys??

Back to the engine:

1. Is this engine new to you or do you have history on it?

2. You mentioned magneto system, to me that mean you have points, have you checked them?

3. If the points dirty or burned this can cause weak or no spark due to no good contact as switches.

4. I have points and I check them when my engine gets sluggish and clean them since 1985 35 HP Chrysler. Very seldom are coils/condensers bad, contact points are the #1 problem if you have them.

5. If you have a service manual, it will tell you how to pull the flywheel and check the points.

Good Luck!
Loger

I saw the post on the outboard forum... I added details I measured today on that post...after saying I recognized the syntax. The big problem I had on that forum was the high traffic load... a post falls off of the first page in a hour or two if it doesn't get any responses.

To what I posted there I can answer, no no points, I assume a magneto, but it seems since there is a "Power Pack" that the flywheel may send just a timing signal... no high voltages.

Briefly: I have determined I have no spark; the coils each measure about 0.28 ohms to ground; the two control wires, one solid orange, and one orange with a blue trace look open to be open circuit when disconnected and "looking" back into each against ground (I believe one of these wires is a grounded at the coil unit and goes back to the "kill" switch); both the orange and the orange/blue terminals on the coil read continuity to ground... this I think is a problem, maybe the problem.

It looks like removal of the rope starting assembly will give me access to the flywheel... hope it doesn't that three hands and special tools to put it back on. But, if I can confirm the coil unit is bad...I don't need to examine the flywheel/stator.

I'll let you monitor all from here. I'll hope to see some good news on this site vs iBoat since I only monitor Chrysler. Loger

Thanks, nothing new yet from iboat. I got some good help and links to information from one of the MyTractor site, small engines. But, even there the closest I could come to what's in the "black boxes" of the coil and the Power Pack was a schematic that showed what I think are some wire errors.

I hope to find out some specific information on what I should see from measuring resistance to ground or other points on a good coil package. A new coil is about $40 so not something I want to jump out and buy without a specific error measurement, which I think I have. The Power pack is even more, closer to $100. Given the low hours on this engine the ignition should not be failing - I hope others do better and get 1,000 hours at least before any failure of the electrical/electronics.

IÂm still "fishing with you Jerry"! Back to the history:

1. Have you had the motor for years w/o any problems until recently?

2. If so can you relate to anything that changed or occurred that could have led to this (environment or use)?

3. Are you assuming there is no spark and how are you testing for spark? I hope by hand like my friend that says Ouch!

4. Jokes aside, good sparks are hard to see, heard better in some cases. I hope you are in a dark area with the plug out grounded "Good".

Get back, Loger

Thanks loger, I don't get much back from iboat, must be something about the way I ask. I try to make the title informative, maybe that's the problem I need to say something like: 'Help" or "New Here", some of those get 5 or more helpful responses. On one of those that had pictures of the rope start removed on a 9.9 hp I asked if there was anything tricky about removing/installing the manual starter. I figure I will take mine off so I can inspect the flywheel magnets and I understand timing devices. I volunteered I was not trying to "hijack" the existing thread. I got two reactions: no tricks (helpful) and advice to post my own thread (haven't had much luck with that). Enough on that forum, there is a lot of good information there, just nothing I can use.

To your question:
1) I purchased the engine new, probles started a year ago an it would always start running about right after a long warm up with low power - I'm thinking running on one cylinder. I purchased in 1998 my receipt tells me.
2) The only known problem areas are old gas year-to-year and low hours each year. That's why I gave so much attention to fuel.
3) Yes, no spark, but, I can say the last time I tried I saw a spark on one plug on the first pull, then none. I have taken to removing both plugs, makes pulling the rope a real easy pull and shakes the engine much less, making it easier to see the gap.. I'm using an old plug with a large gap, not the 7/16" recommended more like 0.1" the larges on my gap guage.
4) I had my wife observe one time so that my body movement from pulling the rope didn't effect the observer/her. I later removed the plugs.

I have carefully traced all the wires out and know how they interconnect the flywheel/throttle(Kill)/connector/PowerPack/DualCoil. I am wondering if there is an intermittent contact in the connector. It looks very solid in design and in perfect shape. I think I'll inspect the flywheel assemblies next. I have requested two outboard motor repair books from my local library and should get them by early next week. We're having some great weather to be on the lake and I have some time, but no engine.

I can fish with electric, I have a 40 pound motor on the front and a 30 pound motor on the stern. I carry two 70 AmpHour batteries, both are in good shape. I think I can run a couple hours on medium power for fishing and still have energy to spare to get back to the docks...still it is much better to go to the 9.9 to get where I want to go.

Thanks loger, I don't get much back from iboat, must be something about the way I ask. I try to make the title informative, maybe that's the problem I need to say something like: 'Help" or "New Here", some of those get 5 or more helpful responses. On one of those that had pictures of the rope start removed on a 9.9 hp I asked if there was anything tricky about removing/installing the manual starter. I figure I will take mine off so I can inspect the flywheel magnets and I understand timing devices. I volunteered I was not trying to "hijack" the existing thread. I got two reactions: no tricks (helpful) and advice to post my own thread (haven't had much luck with that). Enough on that forum, there is a lot of good information there, just nothing I can use.

To your question:
1) I purchased the engine new, probles started a year ago an it would always start running about right after a long warm up with low power - I'm thinking running on one cylinder. I purchased in 1998 my receipt tells me.
2) The only known problem areas are old gas year-to-year and low hours each year. That's why I gave so much attention to fuel.
3) Yes, no spark, but, I can say the last time I tried I saw a spark on one plug on the first pull, then none. I have taken to removing both plugs, makes pulling the rope a real easy pull and shakes the engine much less, making it easier to see the gap.. I'm using an old plug with a large gap, not the 7/16" recommended more like 0.1" the larges on my gap guage.
4) I had my wife observe one time so that my body movement from pulling the rope didn't effect the observer/her. I later removed the plugs.

I have carefully traced all the wires out and know how they interconnect the flywheel/throttle(Kill)/connector/PowerPack/DualCoil. I am wondering if there is an intermittent contact in the connector. It looks very solid in design and in perfect shape. I think I'll inspect the flywheel assemblies next. I have requested two outboard motor repair books from my local library and should get them by early next week. We're having some great weather to be on the lake and I have some time, but no engine.

I can fish with electric, I have a 40 pound motor on the front and a 30 pound motor on the stern. I carry two 70 AmpHour batteries, both are in good shape. I think I can run a couple hours on medium power for fishing and still have energy to spare to get back to the docks...still it is much better to go to the 9.9 to get where I want to go.

Jerry, Do you have a local shop that will test electronic components for you using electronic testers at a moderate cost? I have a 1970Âs electronic tester that will test the components in a magneto system. Such as:

1. It will test the coil and make it fire a plug or separated int pointers simulating a plug and etc..
2. It will test the specific values of condensers and good/bad and etc...

Pulling your flywheel and examining the electronic components could reveal problems as leaks/corrosion.

I agree that your language depends on your replies at iBoat. So far I have used a little psychology that worked. Plus, I have knowledge of the mag system and share info and pics on the site.

Keep Fishing! Loger

Evinrude 9.9 HP Outboard Ignition 2 due to error

Jerry, Do you have a local shop that will test electronic components for you using electronic testers at a moderate cost? I have a 1970Âs electronic tester that will test the components in a magneto system. Such as:

1. It will test the coil and make it fire a plug or separated int pointers simulating a plug and etc..
2. It will test the specific values of condensers and good/bad and etc...

Pulling your flywheel and examining the electronic components could reveal problems as leaks/corrosion.

I agree that your language depends on your replies at iBoat. So far I have used a little psychology that worked. Plus, I have knowledge of the mag system and share info and pics on the site.

Keep Fishing! Loger

I was going to do the simple thing, take my engine into a local shop. The boat place I purchased the engine is in the process of going out-of-business so I didn't check with them. That was the only place doing engine repairs within 15 miles of home. There are some boat places along the Deleware river, but I have never done any business with any of them and am reluctant to put my faith in their shop. The local yard equipment repair, which I have done some parts business with, does not do outboard repairs.

I see the library has the two books I requested in, I'll try to get there tonight to pick them up, if not tonight, then tomorrow for sure.

I am competent with electronics and have good bench equipment, albeit none for ignitions, save an EICO (an old kit building outfit that went out of business about 20 years ago) engine analyzer - for the good old points type ignitions in cars. It has an arrangement to measure high voltage output, on an analog meter. I haven't tired it, but then I don't have any high voltage to test. My belief is the electric signals I need to trace are all lower, not spark, voltages. While I say I am competent with electronics I'll admit I do not know from memory details on a capacitive discharge ignition, or on how the manual start, no battery, gets the DC power to the electronics so it can generate the spark signal to the coils. I hope one or both of the books will help. l do see on the web a book specific to Johnson/Evinrude ignitions.. of course most of it is for the big-boy stuff, but there may be a lot in common on the ignition side... that's the same for 9.9 hp and for 250 hp... I think :)

Jerry / Loger: Take the Outboard to your Local Dealer. They can do a load test simulation and verify if the Ignition Module or Exciter Coil (Black Box) rather than the Ignition Coil(s) are Faulty . I have owned both 9.9 & 15 HP Evinrude's that had separate (2) coils and they on occasion would fail . Also had a Exciter Coil go south but on both motor's the CDI Modules never failed . 1986 and 86 Vintage. Also had a 1990 V-4 90 Evinrude that the Charging Coil aways burnt out when you least expected it , normally when someone would unexpectedly shut of the Main Mag to the Dual Batteries prior to shuting off the ignition switch
lol . Don't know the current electronic's you have on your newer Outboard but they will verify at a very reasonable cost if you provide the components for testing. Will save you money in the long run since a weak component will or may cause premature failure of another component .

Ewalk, Thanks for tuning in! Loger

Thanks Ewalk, I hadn't thought of paying to have components tested. I may check with the Evinrude dealer(s) along the Delaware river...that seems to be the closest to me now that the local guy closed.

Still, I got notice that the two Evinrude repair books I requested form my local library (they had to have them shipped in form the main library)are in and I will look at those first to see what I can learn about what's inside and how to test. As I said in one or more posts, when I tested the dual coil unit with an ohm meter each coil measure 0.28 ohms to ground and open (low voltage) between them. The coil unit terminals that connect to the Power Pack (Orange/blue and Orange) when open (wires removed) read continuity to ground, not good I think...but I don't know until I find out what is inside the "black box" or I get a "factory specification" on what the terminals should read on an ohmmeter.

Ewalk, I take your post to say that I should check to see if the dealer will test components - i.e., I just bring in the coil and/or Power Pack (there are connectors making it easy to remove them from the engine wiring).

Thanks again Loger for encouragement and ideas.

The place going of business might have the best deals and resources if their "Mechanic" has time at this point. They will have stock to move and the Mechanic might be looking for work.

It was a sad day when I learned our local shop was closing. My business d/n help them much due to only purchasing parts about 5 times 1985 Â 2009 that I installed. It was an investment vs a personal interest "in my opinion". The Grand (a retired Navy Officer and the personal owner) turned over to the Son-In-Law, the economy changed (after many years) and the 2 grandsons were not interested in the business. All 3 generations had gifted mechanical talents. I found some great closing deals before they sold inventory over the net only and finally all to another dealer. Loger

Loger, good idea. The dealer going "Under" (I don't think it is retirement) is the place I purchased the subject Evinrude and back then he had quite a collection of old engines...he gave me a small trade-in on my 1988 Johnson 9.9 (which he said would cost too much to repair). I don't remember the numbers. In any case he had a shop and a large showroom and lot with lots of big power boats, I mean the size that have dual 200 HP engines on them. Then over the years the neighborhood kept growing - was farm country around the town the deal operated in. So, it seems as the customer base grows, the business goes down??? go figure, and it has happened to a number of other locals, but in those cases Home Depot and WalMart ran the small business out... but not the boat dealer.

I got the books and think it is the coil. One of the books I got is a Service Manual, about 800 pages and covers all the Evinrude line from smaller to much large than mine...so only about 10% of the book directly applies to my engine, but I think that was enough.

What I found on ignition test, dual primary/secondary unit.
Primary should read between 0.05 and 0.15 ohms. This is the reading I referred to as continuity to ground.. I didn't look for anything that low and will recheck, but I think the primary windings pass.
Secondary should read between 225 and 325 ohms, and I read continuity, shorted to ground: bingo!

I think a faulty secondary winding could produce the type of failure experienced, i.e., low power that recovered over time, then finally a total failure, not start.

I will postpone removal of the starter rope assemble and not inspect the stator and timing until I clear or replace the coil unit. It is of reasonable cost, under $40.

Hum, removed the unit and carefully made measurements again before taking the coil unit to the shop/dealer/parts... Now everything looks fine, I will reinstall and make sure all the grounds are solid and clean and measure again on the engine.

On the "bench":
The Primary reads something under 0.1 ohm (I don't have a fractional ohm measurement meter - just the leads have that kind of resistance) - I take the reading to say good.

Now the bad news, I get the secondary resistance at 285 ohms, right where it should be.

Looks like the trouble shooting needs to go on, but I will check for spark again after remounting the coils.

Jerry: Yes just disconnect the spade or quick connect terminal connectors and bring the individual components for bench testing . The dealer will have load-testers and analysis equipment to validate their current status.

Loger: Very good point as to the Dealer Mechanics doing work on the side. As I indicated within a post on another lawnmower thread , I have found numerous mechanics open to doing work off site. Actually since Jerry has made a purchase quite often the dealer will approach the mechanic with you to assist when work schedule within the business is hectic. The worst case scenario the mechanic will tell you exactly how and what to test for ! Which I have welcomed back in the day again on numerous projects. Electronic's has never been my strong point lol . Good Luck Guys ! Whats the worst they can say ...No ?

I'm still doing a little "shade tree" mechanic trouble shooting. The coils tests fine at the DC level and I'll see about getting the dealer's shop to run a high voltage test if I can't find the problem on the flywheel or kill switch. The nice connectors are a real bear to pull apart.. so far I have given a half-hearted try and gave up until I get back to the boat with some pliers. I think I may just open the tiller arm plate on the bottom side to see if I can check the kill switch easier there. I can/did pull the coil assembly without breaking into the connector..it has four plug on wires, two of them being the spark plug wires.

Strangely, after reattaching the coil assembly and being sure the grounds were good, I tried the spark test again, an darn, it sparked on the first pull but not on additional tries. I'm sure the spark once on the first pull is key to the problem identification for the real knowledgeable mechanic.

Jerry: In my limited experience within Electronics the Failure of Electronic Ignitions is that they are not Intermittent in nature. Once they fail their toast . However within Coils I have had spark , no spark conditions on numerous systems. The only CDI failure I have had was on a 1980 Harley that was 2 yrs Old and it was diagnosed from a parasitic battery draw situation . Battery would fail to crank after approx 3 days without cycle usage. I checked the battery and charging system all within spec. It wasn't until a friend advised that he had a change out of his CDI that I brought mine in to the Dealer for verification . It was found defective and the dealer came good for it , which was a delightful surprise lol .

Note: Should you have to replace a component don't hesitate a slightly used unit at less than half price often. Normally carry 30 day warranty and if their going to fail normally they do within that period of use.

A new dual coil runs about $40 on the web, and if I could get a known good used one for half that much it might be worth a try. But, not until I do my best to check out the flywheel end of the business. I need to verify that the "alternator" is putting out enough to drive the Power Pack, mainly charge the capacitor and that the timing (forget what it is called) puts out trigger signals to the two SCRs that drive the primaries of each ignition coil. That, and no killer ground on the Power Pack is about all there is by my study so far. That is, if all the inputs to the Power Pack are right and I'm still not getting any primary power kicks from it, then it must be the bad actor. Here we start getting expensive.. so if I the dealer will test/verify the Power Pack for $25 or less, that would be worth it. They may be willing to test for $X and if bad I can apply that diagnostic charge toward a new unit..sounds reasonable to me.. maybe the best thing is to stop by the dealer who may not yet have closed his doors and chat about how to proceed, he may be willing to include some tests in his closing business operations.

Only $40.00 for a Siamese Coil ? Thats a very good price Jerry. I paid almost that $34.95 for singles back in the day . Heck my Heart Break Charging Coil normally ran $65.00
which is when I began using used units for around $25.00 until I got rid of the Dual battery System and Mag Switch requirement .

Made me check and found it closer to $50 at
http://www.marineengine.com/newparts/part_details.php?pnum=OMC0583740&ptype=&Engine=&Model=
but I think I saw it for less elsewhere - don't know about Siamese, is that a brand name?

The web site shown above states the coil for my engine is "out of stock" there may be a message there - maybe I need to get it tested by a shop with high voltage test equipment. I'll telephone one or two shops tomorrow to see if they offer testing - if testing is over $20, it may be better to just replace if I don't find another problem. If the dual coil is $50 online, it may be more like $65 at the dealer - over the counter. If they have to order, I might as well order myself - if the tests show the coil(s) to be bad.

I'm yet to get out (too much time in front of the computer) to check the "kill" circuit. I'll do that in the next few minutes. Given the way the trouble developed I don't expect to find any problem in the kill circuit as the engine exhibited a low power problem (likely running on one cylinder due to ignition problems) and if the kill was active the engine would have just stopped.

Siamese , just a coined phrase for the "Dual Coil" Set up rather than Individual Single Coils . Anyhow off to the Garage have a set of Calipers and Rotors and pads to change out on my Neighbours Tahoe .. Take Care !

Thanks, that's what my engine has, dual coils in a common encapsulation. I looked further and did fine the old reference, this site has the coils for about $40 with delivery. http://www.boats.net/parts/detail/brp/B-0583740.html

I made a few more tests, all dc/ohm. The kill circuit is just fine, open to ground until I push the stop. Looking under the rope starter I decided not to pull the flywheel as my next step, need a strap wrench or an impact wrench to break the nut lose.. didn't fell like towing the boat up to the garage... so I took two pair of pliers and pulled the 5 pin connector open. There I made measurements on the stuff under the flywheel. The Sensor and Charge windings were both open to ground (no shorts). The Sensor measured 40 ohms across the coil, the manual says that is a good measure about mid-range. The Charge winding measured about 900 ohms, that's just over the upper range in the manual, but I think is fine. I didn't have any equipment to measure the peak AC voltage out of these two windings when pulling the rope. I did put my A/C meter on the pins and did see some "rms" voltage, about 20 volts on the charge (the high resistance coil) and just a tickle on the Sensor. Seems to me to say they are generating voltage.

Again assuming the failure scenario I experienced with this engine is related to the now dead ignition I think it must be the coil... that is the only problem that could have failed by shutting down one cylinder intermittently then finally fail on the other as well. I think it worth while to get my coil tested or just replace it on the chance. If that isn't it it must be the Power Pack (electronics).

Hope you brake job went well, that's a big vehicle, hope you have big jacks. I had not done a car brake job since about 1965 - still drum brakes all around. But, being retired I decided to do the front disc brakes on our 2004 Forester, it had about 40,000 miles on it (very little city driving, so the pads still had life). The rotors looked fine to my eye/finger, so I just replaced the pads.. what an easy job that was compared to what I remember about the drum brakes of the past. I think the Forester has drum in the rear, but they are likely good for 80,000 miles.

More tests "say" to me the problem is the Power Pack ($77 plus $8 Shipping). The last test run confirm the inputs to the Power Pack are there (Sensor voltage peak measured at 5 volts on rope pull: 1.2 to 9 volts is the spec.) (Charger voltage at 200 volts on rope pull: 150 to 275 expected).

Then the outputs, the primary current/voltage to the coils read zero on both coils on repeated rope pulls.

The Coils also check out on resistance measures.

The above measure call for a DVA meter (which is simply a high impedance DC meter measuring the rectified dive voltage across a capacitor). I have a high impedance VOM so all I needed to do was take a 2 mf capacitor and solder to it in series a diode and a 1,000 ohm current limiting resistor (I decided to add the 1K ohm resister just as a safety measure) Then I connected the above series circuit across the test points: e.g. sensor, charge coils and across the primaries of the ignition coils. The VOM is set on DC and connected across the capacitor. Worked great and all I used was the components, some solider and clip leads. This DVA adapter couldn't cost more than $5 to make, and I had the components on hand, so that cost was buried, free.

I have not yet ordered the Power Pack, but I am about 90% certain that is the problem - and a $90 investment is parts is a fraction of what it costs to take the engine into a shop, which are not near my home anyway.

Hi,

I don't have the time right now to read all the posts here; so forgive me if I state something that has already been covered.

Like previous posters; I have great respect for the techs that donate their time and knowledge on i-boats. Of course; not everyone who answers posts there know what they are talking about.....but it is truly a great resource.

Another site that you should be aware of; owning the engine that you do ...is this one:

http://www.sschapterpsa.com/ramblings/OMC/OMC%20info.htm

Take a look at all he has to offer if you haven't already....

OK...I'm gone for a while. Good luck. I'll check back and read through all this here when I have more time.

Chuck

I received and replaced the Power Pack today.

The engine now has a strong spark, and I started it three times for a short couple of seconds run as it is out of the water. I'll try to get the boat out to a lake next week and give the engine a full check-out. I may fish too as taking the boat to a lake and back takes more than an hour.

Thanks to all who helped and encouraged here [and on the iBoat forum] - the Shop Manual which I got from my public library also help a great deal as it gave me pictures, diagrams and numbers.

Do you have room for a plastic 55-gallon drum (cut out the top)? They are great filled with water for low RPM testing. I use mine at the start of every season or when extended running is needed. I do as you did, "a quick dry start" before I drive over 100 miles to fish, each time over 15-20 years and had no problem with my impeller. I finally changed the impeller in 2009 after my 1985 purchase and it looked good. It pumped water good and I checked the lower unitÂs oil yearly and finally had to replace L/UÂs shaft seal and cage "O" ring due to a leak. Performance tuning needs to be done in a body of water vs a barrel (even if you never leave the trailer).

I have a 1970, 35 HP Chrysler on a 1969, 14 or 15Â fiberglass Raycraft boat (it will get up and scoot with two and 33 MPH initially with just me). I think IÂll retire from owning a boat when the motor or boat retires. They Have Been Great! loger

Yes, I have room but my wife might disagree on the 55 gallon drum.

Sounds like you've gotten your money out of your outfit, I've replaced my 9.9 HP once, had a Johnson (same thing) first and just didn't have the time/will to repair it.

No 35 HP for me on the nearby lakes, they are limited to 10 hp no matter the size of the boat. I could use a bigger engine if I take my boat to the Delaware river, only 30 miles from here, each way. If you drive 100 miles I hope you have fun, even catch fish. My round trip for two lakes that are reasonable size (more than 4 square miles each I estimate)is 10 miles.

Jerry: Great to Hear you have worked your way through the Troubleshooting to successful Component Repair / Replacement . Time now for the Fish Bro ! Brought my 14 Crest-liner and 15 HP Evinrude back in from Camp last weekend. Have a 11' Jon boat and 4HP Yamaha for Season ending Speckled Trout Ponds I hit during Deer and Moose Seasons.
Note: Jerry / Loger , do me a favour and give me a heads up should you see or locate a nice used 20 HP Yamaha 1988-1993 Vintage , would love to upgrade to something a little Newer and Larger for the Crest-liner for next Season .

ewalk, I see you live in Canada....there and Alaska are the places to live if one fishes :) But, deer hunting is great here in NJ. I live in the country about midway between New York City and Philadelphia and the Whitetail deer are so thick I could shoot a buck off my back deck. But alas, I am not a hunter, and moose, there are none around here and it would scare most of us if we saw one.

Good luck on your look for a new boat, spotted trout (I don't know that species, and will look them up on the web), and hunting.

We have 2 nice lakes about 10 miles away (Lake Benbrook and Arlingtin). I feel they get too much residential sewer overflow (during hard rains) sin the 1970s but closest testing lakes. Lake Joe Pool about 25 miles away is nicer and has a State Park area as Benbrook. The better fishing is in East TX in larger lakes away from the urban growth and waste. The trips are too hard after making the 5-8 runs per summer 70s-90s. Our best lake in our North TX area is Lake Ray Roberts, 140 round trip with good timber and fish. We try for about 5 trips there from sundown to early morning due to the TX heat, wind and storms. We have caught our share of fish. Now we are about to retire our summerÂs boat fishing (too much work). WeÂll continue some bank fishing during spawning and Xmas tree baited pier fishing.

Ewalk, I did find info on the best time to split oak firewood and it was a flip of a coin as I had basically learded. loger

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat/fish/recreational/lakes/benbrook/

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat/fish/recreational/lakes/arlington/

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat/fish/recreational/lakes/ray_roberts/

Jerry: Yep There a Abundance of Big Lakes here in Northern Ontario . The Speckled Trout are also known as Brook Trout.
Lots of Deer and Moose within a few Miles of my House and Camp location . Actually had to stop my Wife from Feeding the Deer before the MNR charged us for Baiting lol .
Loger: Have been through Texas back in the 80's Dallas / Fortworth and Arlington on my Harley. Darn if that Hail and Funnel Clouds don't Scare the Hell out of us Canucks on Two Wheels. Went as Far South West as Oklahoma City to Vist Friends in the Service.

Note: Seriously Guys won't be Selling the 14' Crest-liner , just got finished decking it out with new electronics and live wells and Pedestal Swivel Seats & Interior lights for Night fishing , but be sure to give me a heads up should you Spot a Good Deal on that used 20HP Short Shaft Yamaha Outboard :) .

ewalk; I assume 14' boat, even a heavy glass boat, goes pretty good with 15 hp, suppose on a big lake more power is better.

What's the appeal of a used 20 hp other than price, and if that's it and I find one in NJ the shipping would offset any cost advantages, I estimate.

If I were buying and had more access to unlimited hp lakes, I'd go for a 20 hp 4 cycle for my 16' Aluminum boat. A Mercury or Nissan (I think that's the Japanese brand I've looked at) go new for about $2,500 here in NJ, so they are about what I paid for my boat,motor and trailer 25 years ago. I doubt there are many used ones in 4 cycle. My boat may have fewer hours on it than you do in one season. I'm sure my Evinrude does.

Jerry: Primarily the overall benefits would be that the 20 HP Yamaha would be a few yrs newer (fuel conservation) more performance when fishing with 3- 4 people . I just missed out on a 1990 20 HP 2-Stroke Yamaha last yr was sold for $1200.00 US Funds just South of my location in Michigan . I have my feelers out for next season but good buys on this Model and Yr are unfortunately few and far between lol . The current Lake I fish is 23 Miles Long which we travel routinely on Nightly Fishing Excursions . Being able to Plane out fully and efficiently is my quest which is not achievable with the Smaller 15 HP . The xtra 5 HP makes all the difference .

Hum, I read there to be some improvements in 1990+ vintage Yamaha, maybe a CD electronic ignition like the one I just replaced. Oh, on rethinking the $2,500.00 USD was for 9.9 HP 4 cycle, I'd bet a 20 HP would be at least $3,500 - a guess only.

I got the boat/engine out for a test run this afternoon, it was a little hard to start, started and died when the choke pushed in.. got better. Ran well a both partial and wide open, but wouldn't idle at low rpm without dieing. I recalled I had screwed the idle jet screw on the carb before determining the engine had no spark. So, when I got back to the dock I stood in my hip boots with the engine in the lake and adjusted the idle screw... seems best at about 4 turns out ... much more out than any past engine I've worked on. It now seems to idle well at low rpm.

I took sandwich and beer (not allowed, so I didn't really do the beer part if this post is read by a NJ Ranger :( ) and fished for a couple of hours, mostly trolling with a large swim-bait. I got nothing and didn't see much on the sonar either. I didn't use a down-rigger so the swim bait was likely no more than 20 feet down, the fish I saw were mostly 35' or more down.. also threw a jig several times. Any tips on a web site that give good advice on best hooks and rigging for swim bates?

Do you feel you have some restriction in your system if this is an excessive adjustment? Do you run fuel additives as StaBil to help keep your system clean? Why not run this by others with your engine and experience on iboat, "even if some post are not too friendly". I feel I learn some personal info/tips and look over what I know is not better for my situation. If this is close to what your ownerÂs manual suggest, I would live with it (I agree, "It sounds excessive").

My problem is not running my engine more and hard for a good run. To get it good and hot and "Blow The Crap Out Of It"! I have only burned 6-9 gallons at the most at low speeds and trolling the last few summers. When I was running it hard, it ran better. Now, I try to open it up about a mile coming or going and this is not good at night.

My wife is fishing and cooking fish from the local markets twice a week lately. Her challenge is to find a fresh tasty fish as we catch. I keep telling her, "look in our freezer"! ItÂs too full of local fish I caught early in the summer. loger

Jerry: Not interesting in a 4-Stroke. The Biggest Improvement that I have observed is within carburetion and Engine Overall Design Improvements along with recent Oil Technology allowing leaner Oil / Fuel Ratio's. In the Mid 80's Marine Engine Technology still required excessive Oil Mixture's alone with Fuel to achieve Optimum Lubrication. My 1990 Yamaha 4-Hp runs 100:1 Oil /Fuel mix and burns cleaner and Cooler than you can believe. Same with my Friends 20 HP Yamaha on his 14' Chris Craft . Thats the Reason for the switch lol .

ewalk,

Interesting, the first engine I owned was a 9.9 HP Johnson that saw recreational use for about 10 years, maybe 300 hours run time, no slow trolling, I use electric for that. This purchased in about 1987. It came with a 100:1 fuel:oil recommendation. Best I can recall I got a notice, maybe from a turn-up mechanic to go to 50:1 per Johnson recommendations. In any case in 1997 I took the engine to a dealer/shop for a tune-up and was told the engine was "shot".. wear. I purchased the subject 9.9 HP Evinrude, a new engine, and it came with a 50:1 mixture requirement. Your experience with Yamaha seems to suggest that OMC (Johnson/Evinrude) are way behind the design "curve". RE-reading, are you said "Oil Technology"... are you saying synthetic makes 100:1 possible?

Jerry: Are you sure about the 100:1 Fuel Mix Ratio ? Sounds very lean for that Yr of Manufacturer and Oil Technology was really not that advanced to allow sufficient lubricity at such a lean mixture , let alone the Marine Engine Design of the Day. The norm (1981 - 88) was 40:1 by most Manufacturers if memory serves me well . The Reason Yamaha was able to was due to a combination of Superior Oil Design Technology and Tighter Engine Design Parameters (tolerances). Behind the design curve for OMC well from to compare 1987 to 1990 Day and Night. But Head to Head all Main Marine Manufacturers back then were less efficient within 2-Stroke Design . Today the New Evinrude E-tec (computerized) Fuel Injected and Oil Injected Outboards can run as clean if not cleaner as many 4-Stroke Honda Outboards of the 90's . Premium Oils (Non Sytehetic) of the 90's made 100:1 Fuel Ratio's capable within Yamaha due to Water cooling . Today with Synthetic Oil 100:1 Ratios are capable even in Air Cooled Engine Designs . I don't push my air cooled equipment to that limit I run most of mine at 50:1 but have on occasion used 70:1 on select units , but never 100:1 in a 1987 OMC Marine Engine .