chas045 Take engine back to harbour freight they give new engine. I don't nowhere live but calif. models have no adjustment. Being new just return in Box best it has barcode. They should roll new one up to desk. These engine 6 1/2 horse power with overhead valves makes them very strong. Go to store in time frame 9 am to 4 pm if can manger floor should be there during week.

Be positive you not over tilting engine the low oil cut off kill engine set tiller gauge in third notch and try it again on level ground.

They want crank back until level engine.

Don't take wires off low oil switch this where a lot Tecumseh engine die.

as till in third notch ground soften and tire bog in soft soil next pass.

Hill side tilling till down hill.

sorry so late responding.

Gator and mla2ofus and others, I don't see an indication of the oil level switch or whatever it is. Can you tell me where it is? I would certainly not leave the circuit off except for testing since I ran my nice Techumseh engine out of oil, but I would certainly like to know if that was the cause of my stalling problem before I returned my engine for no good reason.

It is certainly true that I have often been in deep tilling mode when it has stalled out (5th notch setting), and the engine is already tilted back just sitting on the garage floor. However, I think I stalled a couple of times in third notch as well, since I assumed it would decrease the resistance. The odd thing, is that the way I would remove resistance was to lift the tines out of the soil. I am sure that this must have tilted the engine back toward level. Does the switch take a couple seconds to turn on again? That would explain it I guess.

I guess I will take the tiller out tomorrow and rest it on a high point and tilt it back and see if I can reproduce the stall and failure to immediately recover issue.

Mine is a greyhound engine. The low oil shutoff is located right next to the on/off switch. the wire connections are located inside a small black snap together housing. I disconnected the wire that comes from the crankcase. If they've changed the location on the predator then this is no help to you.
I keep mine overfilled by running the oil fill side tire up on a 2x4 and fill to the top of the fill spout, which on mine is down on the side of the crankcase showing the actual oil level. Haven't seen or heard any adverse effects.

Mike

The odd thing, is that the way I would remove resistance was to lift the tines out of the soil. I am sure that this must have tilted the engine back toward level. Does the switch take a couple seconds to turn on again?

Yes I never can save mind from shutting off I level mind wait few seconds and fire right back up if level go pulling on crank rope and choking usual flood engine with gas but no start I think long few seconds before fire back up.

I have 2 grey hounds one on horse one on junior the junior has very small wheels hard tires I can go deeper junior because small wheels. I have one predator new in shop attic waiting may put that on troy bilt cultivator I have. The junior and cultivator models use 3 1/2 horse engines. Junior had engine with reverse pulley but now it doesn't no reverse so small no problem and extract 3 hp just find.
HF engine very strong they compete with 10 horsepower flat head engine.
2x4 good ideal.

Thanks for the info guys. Yes mla2ofus, my wiring is in the same location and I will check it out. I just got back from tilting my horse extra far back on a slope while not in gear and unfortunately I wasn't able to make it stall. I didn't get carried away though. But I guess that Gators experience with identical stalling effects to mine make it still the probable cause.

I have a second question however. I have only run the tiller for three sessions and on at least the second and third tillings, and today on unloaded full speed running, the engine surges dramatically every second or so via the governor. The governor drops the throttle either to, or almost to, closed and then back to full speed in that second or two and will continue until loaded (I think).
It would be nice to know what would likely cause this surging on such a new engine. Does anyone have a useful explanation?

I am certainly prepared to return it. I saw the paperwork for it around here somewhere two weeks ago. By the way, H.F. charged me extra for the year warranty! But if the next engine might do either of these things again so soon, it would be good to know what to do about it.

The surge in governor lean engine thanks to pollution laws there not much help. Main jet just too small if had screw to adjust main jet just back out until runs smooth.
All new engines have this problem keep additive like seafoam in gas so jet stays clean any coating cause problem less gas into engine.

I thought I would update you guys on what I have learned about my, engine.

First, unfortunately is a little stupidity on my part. I had adjusted the max speed stop screw up some, hoping to prevent the stalling issue before hearing about the oil switch issue. The governor is set low to match the lower speed, and the major surge was just the governor doing its job to keep the speed a little lower.

However, after adjusting the max speed back, I found moderate surging continued at any setting. I did some googling and found a couple nice sites from go cart people and others on the HF engines that I now know are also called Honda Clones. Our Predator/Greyhound 6.5 HP HF engines are similar to the GX200 Honda engine and presumably use that engine's carburator. These carbs are available on line for $12-15-37. One can also get oversize jets and various emulsion tubes.

The go cart guys always have trouble with the oil cut off and disconnect them. They almost always complain about surging and increase the jet size. They also do other exciting things to really crank up speed and occasionally shatter (perhaps under-designed) flywheels. Always good to have extra ways to break a few body parts.

Anyway, I had been worried about getting carb kits etc. and now I know where to get stuff like that, and engine parts too if I didn't just want to go grab another engine for $99, which is the store price in the flyer that came out a few days ago.

Good post on engine the go karter down here change valve springs stronger go up to 4500 rpm's still have 3yr. warranty that there tail not mind lol.
You need to join yahoo troybilttiller group dot com make that into link Bill Rodger is dealer in Va. I think he has phone number there on site if own troybilt tiller its best place to be again thanks for report back.

I bought the 8hp horizontal shaft Predator 301cc yesterday and took it home long enough to dry fit my new conversion kit for my BCS 715 tiller. Everything bolted up nicely to the engine until it was time to bolt the clutch to the shaft. I found out the shaft was 1 inch or more too short and could not work. I packed it all back up and took it back to Harbor Freight before they closed and got a full refund. Now I have to spend twice as much on a Kolher 9.5hp 277 cc at Northern Tools. If there were a way to get a longer shaft Predator I would do it. I'm sort of glad it didn't work out because I didn't even think to bring a coupon to Harbor Freight. I found a $50 off coupon for Northern Tools but still I'll be paying a lot.

Pass on the Predator, as it's prey is your wallet. I bought the 212 cc engine and connected it to my log splitter. It started on the first pull ran for around a minute and when I shut it off it would not start again. I took a compression test and discovered it had only 30 psi, Small engines should have about 120 I believe. So after a long haul back to Harbor freight I got another identical engine, hooked it up and it would not even fart. A compression test revealed about 10 lbs. This was a lot of work. Just buy a Briggs or a Honda and be done with it. Not saying they can't make a good motor, but they obviously had a bad batch and Harbor Freight moves them with little concern.

@ chiefe; sorry to hear about your unfortunate issues. And yes, it sure suggests that they don't have much quality control except via customer relations. However, I can say my second engine has worked well for several years now and generally starts on the first pull.

Chiefe. I dunno if you just got a run of lemons or I hit the lottery with my 212 cc Predator. I grafted it to an old Ariens snow blower. 2 seasons so far, And last winter was a humdinger. Starts greats and runs good.

I have a older model craftsman,tiller that needs,a new carb,an a valve job.! Will this 212cc,predator motor matchup. and fit? ? Think that it will be. Better to get a new engine, at this price! But like they say you get what you pay for?

Yes Comes with 3/4" shaft fits most replacement engine plenty horsepower.

Engine comes with low oil shut off, on some rear tine tiller overfill oil by 4 oz. that keep running never disconnect low oil switch.

Thanks for the info! Does, it have a reverse ?gear?

No none have reverse gear anymore.

@brad: No engine ever had a reverse. A transmission or belt transfer may do that but it is on your tiller; or not.

chiefe

This engine (Honda and Honda Clone) have a system or decompression mechanism so is easier to start,

they call this EZ start, so to measure the pressure you need to bypass this mechanish

@chas045: Actuallly the Techumseh engine for the Ariens Rocket 7(and 5 too I believe) had a reverse on the engine. All it is is a second shaft on the engine that is attached to the first by a cog. The reverse worked by changing which belt would feed power to the tillers gearbox. Just look up the Rocket 7 and you'll know what I mean.

I am having a problem with mine. I put it on a gokart. And a clutch. When my son rides it it will run for a minute and shut down while riding? Please help. If it's idling it stays running forever. Just not when it's riding.

Overfil the oil by about 4 oz to prevent the oil shutoff switch to activate. Sharp turns or hills affect the oil level which can cause the switch to read no oil, shutting down the engine

Hmm, sorry to resurrect an old thread (not really ;) ) but it seemed to maybe the proper thread for asking about this engine.

I have a twenty year old Troybilt rear-tine tiller that is in need of an engine. The tiller's engine is an 8hp Briggs. When HF was making the switch-over to Predator engines from Greyhound I bought a 6.5hp Greyhound for another project at a deep discount...around $60-70 I think it was. Anyhow, that project fell through and the engine remained in the box ever since then. I know that it will be a bit underpowered compared to an 8hp engine, but does anyone know if the 6.5hp Greyhound engine would bolt up where the 8hp Briggs is? Looking at the mounting diagrams of both the 6.5hp and 8hp Predator engines reveals that the bolt pattern is indeed different. I was just curious if anyone has worked with that vintage Troybilt and whether it has extra mounting holes for different engines...hoping. :)

I know I should just remove the 8hp and take the 6.5hp out of the box and check, but I'm kind of short on time and hoping someone could share their knowledge/experience. But, there again, the Greyhound has been sitting for 4-5 years so it might be a chore to get it running now....

Thanks for any help!!!!

Ed

ETA: Well, in searching the forum some it seems that the 6.5hp Greyhound may indeed bolt-up where the 8hp Briggs was mounted. But also, in the same thread, I found one person mention that the 6.5hp engine might be too under-powered to break up sod. Any thoughts on this? Here's a link to the thread I'm referring to... http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/1630371/troy-bilt-horse-tiller-8hp-needs-new-engine?n=9

I believe all engines were shipped without oil already added. I would think your engine would be fine. As you can already tell from this thread and others, that these engines appear powerful enough for a horse tiller. I didn't realize that some Horse units had 8 HP engines. I don't recall hearing about multiple Horse designs other than the special power take off. I didn't realize that it might have had a larger engine but it could make sense. I suppose such an engine could have a different bolt pattern.

I've started to write this reply numerous times and get sidetracked each time...hopefully this one will get finished...

Crazy as I am, I was wrong on the tiller....it is a Husqvarna and not a Troybilt...what can I say...it's been a rough week. Anyhow, I tried the 6.5hp Greyhound motor but the mounting didn't work well. I ended up picking up a 8hp Predator and have it bolted on and running it's second sump of oil. I let the engine run for a little over an hour at about 40% throttle with the first oil. I found lots of specks of silver metal in the first change. I've probably got it running about 60% throttle at the moment and figure I'll gradually increase the throttle over the next 40-50 minutes until it's wide open.

The motor bolted up pretty good, but I have an issue with the belt-guard not fastening down. I will have to fabricate a brace for it, but that isn't too big of a deal even though I'm no mechanic. :) The output shaft is longer than the one on the OE Briggs so it's hitting the guard when the guard is pulled into proper position...the area that it hits is a cup-like area. The longer shaft hits the end of the cup....I figure I will simply cut the end out of this "cup"...maybe extend it with a V8 juice-can and gear-clamp or something. There was also a large bolt/sleeve that was bracing the guard but the Predator doesn't have a threaded hole that large on the side of it...nor one in that particular spot...thus a "modification" of some sort is required.

The motor seems to be running good, but it's just spinning a pulley at the moment...

I ran two changes of oil through the engine yesterday afternoon and it's sitting with a fresh change of oil at the moment. I got still got tiny metal glitter in the oil on the second change. I'm wondering if I should go ahead and do another break-in run with it or bring it home and see how it works in the garden. The only thing that hasn't been tested out is the transmission which has no fill-hole for grease.

One thing I noticed on the last break-in run was that when I eventually moved the throttle to 100% the engine started running a bit rough. I backed off the throttle a little and it ran smooth...I let it run for ten minutes or so and then tried it at 100% again and it ran fine...???

As mentioned earlier, the shaft on the 301cc/8hp Predator is a good bit longer than the OE Briggs shaft. This caused the end up the shaft to protrude to far out and hit the belt-guard. I ended up taking my trusty Dremel and cut a square opening end the belt-guard...round peg in a square hole solution. Now the cover will pull up snug against the engine case and I believe I can secure it with a couple of bolts screwed into the engine case so that the head of the bolt catches the flared edge of the guard...I think it will be enough to hold the guard in place but if not I've got some bailing wire. ;)

Something I noticed when I unpacked the engine was that the On/Off switch was set to "On". It seems I've read a post or two where some switches have malfunctioned. I'm thinking that since the "Off" part of the circuit is a grounding switch that by moving the switch back to "On" after turning the engine off that it might take tension off the switch...saving the spring tension/contact for grounding/engine-stopping action of the "Off" part of the circuit. I have no idea how this switch really works so this is just a wild donkey thought of mine. :)

Ed

i have a 670cc v twin i need a diode stop switch part #104 anyone know where to buy parts for this engine also what honda is it cloned after .thank for the help

Since you tagged onto this old thread, you could have read the answer above. I copied part of a post from sept 2012.

I did some googling and found a couple nice sites from go cart
people and others on the HF engines that I now know are also called
Honda Clones. Our Predator/Greyhound 6.5 HP HF engines are similar to
the GX200 Honda engine and presumably use that engine's carburator.
These carbs are available on line for $12-15-37. One can also get
oversize jets and various emulsion tubes.

The go cart guys always have trouble with the oil cut off and
disconnect them. They almost always complain about surging and increase
the jet size. They also do other exciting things to really crank up
speed and occasionally shatter (perhaps under-designed) flywheels.
Always good to have extra ways to break a few body parts.

Anyway, I had been worried about getting carb kits etc. and now I
know where to get stuff like that, and engine parts too if I didn't just
want to go grab another engine for $99, which is the store price in the
flyer that came out a few days ago.

wac538, from what I can tell from the internet the 670cc is "rated" 22hp and is cloned after the Honda "24hp". Check into what chas045 said above...I personally have no idea where to find the part unless you were maybe go through Harbor Freight.

I'm glad you posted your question as it reminded me to follow-up on my Predator 301cc/8hp...

After the two hour-long break-in runs I opted to go ahead and till the garden. Over roughly a week-long period I tilled the 1000sqft area up three times. The engine performed with no issues whatsoever. It is a very strong engine. I've seen mention of the 6.5hp version surging a bit and shutting down if the engine is tipped too far in one direction (low-oil shut-off) but I had neither of these with the 301cc though the only tipping was forward when I got to the end of a row and tilted the tiller forward to "dump" the soil captured beneath it...this was an extreme angle, but the engine continued to run fine.

The only problem I had was with the belt...after roughly 20 years it had stretched, dried-out, and ended up flipping over on the pulley at the end of the second tilling. I replaced the belt and now the tiller operates even better!!!! ;) That, actually wasn't a problem, though. The real problem is that the shaft of the 301cc is a 1/2"(?) longer than the OE engine's shaft so the engine pulley can't be pushed as closely to the engine block as the OE one was. This results in the tension pulley and engine pulley not lining up very good...but good enough to work. Over a period of time I imagine there will be some extra wear on the side of the belt. I may pull the tension pulley shaft out and install a washer to move it outward a grunt to get it more inline with the engine pulley. But, it's working for now...and knowing me it will probably stay this way.

I'm going to till the area one more time and will change the oil afterwards. I'm running STABIL in the gas as the manual recommends and when I get ready to store it for the season I'll top the tank off, cut the gas off, and run the carburetor dry. I'm glad I made the purchase and am well pleased with the outcome so far...next year or this fall after the tiller has sat idle for a length of time will be the proof in the pudding.

I think the break-in oil changes are very important...with the tiny metal glitterl I saw flowing with the oil when I changed it the time and the small expense is well worth it. Btw, I decided on 10W30 Mobil 1 Extended Performance synthetic oil...it's what I run in my Jeep. ;)

I race the motor and its grate but if you want it to have more power and preformance just go to dynocams.com and you will find the cam to have good power and a carb would be a good idea for a tiller. The only thing is you have to spend a little money. But well worth it. I bought both styles of motor and built one that turns every bit of 8500 rpm and the classes tht thay run where i race can not keep up with me. Mod 2 cam billit flywheel and and a blueprint carb really make this motor come to life but i also did sum small mods to the rod so i didnt have to buy a billit one. O and one last think if you run one over 6000 rpm its best to run vavoline vr1 20-50 high zinc and it will keep it living for a long time.

Thanks for all of the information, Josef. I'm not much of a mechanic, so I won't be working on the engine (I hope). It's doing a great job stock tilling my garden. You race them, eh? I've never been to a tiller race before...I bet there's some dirt-slinging going on at one of those, eh? ;)

Best wishes, Ed

I don't have one thing to say about the Predator 301cc engine it stinks they don't make no replacement parts for them and do you see what happened to this with less than a hundred hours I bought this engine brand new in December of 2017 it blew up in April of 2018 I did no modifications but put a different air filter on a header and Muffler and the valve went right through the top of the piston and destroyed everything except the gears and piston arm crankshaft oil sensor the valves were totally destroyed the head was mangled up where I could not even get the spark plug out and do you see what it did to the piston do not buy a predator 301 take it from me with personal experience they are trash

The Illustrated pictures from a r a before-and-after with less than a hundred hours on this engine which is the 301 CC predator

Man, that's a bummer! Sorry to hear of your problem. Seems there's a lot of folks using them in carts, though, with apparently good results. Maybe you got one that had an abnormality in it's build?

Mine is stock and on a rear-tine tiller. I fire it up, push the throttle wide-open, and let it run. I need to take the hour-meter off the log-splitter and stick it on the tiller for more accurate records...I'll get that done, one day.<grin> This is the second season of tilling my ~25'x55' garden with the engine (I increased the garden size). Since I've had it I've probably ran it a total of 20-25 hours. I'm a long way off from 100 hours of use, but it's a strong engine and I've been pleased with mine so far.

yeah mostly the 212 they have every part you need for them but my cart weighs 420 lb and a six and a half horsepower is a little bit small without doing some modifications

From What I see the Race Driven 301 Grenaded due to floating the valves untiil the Piston struck the valve train which Destroyed the Piston ! Extreme High RPM Situation ?

Just to clarify, the engine on my tiller is the 301cc.

So Dirt & Charles what urges you to dig up this Old Thread are the Hillbilly lawnmower drags around the Corner ? lol .

Charles commented on a problem and I added the positive experience that I've had over the last year with mine. Sorry for the curt response. Just one of those threads that folks will always drift to if they're interested in re-powering some equipment on the (somewhat) cheap.

Dirt just yanking your chain Bro ! Good to see you back on the Forum , so was weak valve springs the basic cause of Charles engine catastrophic failure ? I ,am intrigued with the price point and spec,s of the Predator Series !

I'm definitely no mechanic, so whatever my thoughts are they are just shots in the dark. It sounds like you're more of a mechanic than I am. The Predator engines have a niche and I think, like other things, that the Chinese "quality control" (kind of weird to say that) and manufacturing tolerances are, shall we say, a bit loose? I know that during the break-in oil changes that there was *lots* of glitter/metal in the drained oil. Anyone that doesn't do at least a couple of oil changes is, I'm afraid, looking at less than possible lifetime for the engine.

Don,t like the sound of that , could be Cam wear or just residual debris from break in . I would recommend you purchase and use Amsoil Premium Synthetic Oil . In your Region Alabama ? 10-W40 Sae. For small Aircooled Engines will provide excellent protection with your Tiller application . $8.95 a quart is cheap peace of mind !

Now, to clarify myself... The break-in is an intentional action. Several messages back (last year) I tell how I did my break-in.

I'm running Mobil 1 10W30 synthetic. It seems to do a good job.

Oh yeah did not read the old historical break in info you previously provided . It appears adequate for this class of engine . The silver metallic particles identified during 2 oil changes though is abnormal then what I have experienced with Brigg Intel k o r Vanguard units . However after a yr of tiller usage if it was an issue you would have known by now . The stability usage is proactive with today's efuel . P.S. Don,t forget to check valve lash around 100 hrs , don,t want you to relive Charles valve train experience lol.

Well, the metallic particles are actually *normal* for these engines...thus the intentional break-in runs and oil changes. These engines are much less expensive than the engines that you mentioned, but broken in correctly and used properly they must do a decent job as Harbor Freight sells them regularly. For something like my tiller that is used only a few times a year this is a *very* cost-effective engine. ;)

Some background...predators are made for harbor freight by LCT. This is the old Honda plant that was abondedon in China back in Mid 2000s. Senior leadership from Tecumesh and Briggs came together to manage and restart the production. Early models we're exact copies of the Honda GX series engines. After patents infringement we're decided by international courts, LCT modified the engines enough to get around patient infringements and the predator was born. I have a friend who bought nothing but Honda for is jobside equipment and he would go through 6.5 and 13 hp engines all the time. He keeps 2 of each on the shelf as backups. Can't afford a lot of downtime on job construction sites. He was sceptical at first using the engine but finally tried after my constant armtwisting. Once he'd did and got about the same life for the application, he switched over and never looked back. Once in a blue moon he'd get a bad one but that even happened with a Honda. Getting the job done at a third of the cost, he thanks me all the time and tells anyone who'll listen predators are a great engine. So do l.

• Good stuff Tom , just was introduced to the Predator Product line few days ago by a fellow forum members Exmar on the Lawnmower forum here . He just purchased a unit as a replacement . I reviewed the spec,s and advised him that they looked good . The Price point is excellent . My only reservation is the amount of metallic particulate that Dirt has advised , he has noticed following two sequential oil changes . Seems a little excessive to me . Perhaps these engines are not run up prior to shipment by the Q.C. Lab . Boy,s lol .

Charles, I'm looking to put the Predator 8HP engine on my BCS 725. I think you are mistaken about the shaft length. The 8hp predator is 1-inch by 3.48 long. The Kohler 9.5 is 1-inch by 3.49. That is hardly a fractional amount of difference.

I know that this is an old thread but I have a nice 725 that I am thinking of repowering with the predator 301 (the machine currently has a Kohler magnum 8 that needs expensive parts. fuel tank and air cleaner assembly). Will the bumper and operator presence switch transfer over with the HF engine?

Yes fit and Predator has overhead valves it have very high powered engine.

Tilling over tilt engine on 6hp add 4 oz more oil than full so If shouts down on 301 add 2 more oz. We killed old engine without kill down engine .

Well let's get the old thread rippin'...

I use and abuse the predators..

#1 Get some Dura-lube put 1/2 quart in the engine then top off with good synthetic. I've noticed over the years they "small engines" hold less oil for factory fill levels. So you might jus figure a 50/50 Duralube/Good synthetic. The engine will run a whole lot cooler causing less wear.

#2 use only non ethanol gas if possible. People from California can figure it out themselves or move.

Add "mechanic in a bottle" it's a cheap fix for the under sized needle valves and jets.

#3 store in a semi clean dark area.

This helps keep the fuel from turning.

Always use fresh gas. A good adaptive like stabil, marvel mystery oil, sea foam, or mechanic in a bottle is a must.

#4 if you plan on having the engine a while buy an extra carb and 2 or 3 primer bulbs.

#5 add a fuel filter in line. Yes your tank gets trash or chemical break down as well as the lines corrode too. Your local boat shop will carry ethanol and alcohol resistant line. It ain't cheap but you'll save a Shit load of time and labor.

These comments on cart guys need to say change your rings weekly and change the bearings at most monthly.. Re grind "seat" valves weekly.. Carts can take a 5hp and push ^ 100mph on asphalt..

Don't forget Toleson in carb $250-300... Then get the adjustable carb for on the fly just couple hundred more... New copper headgaskets help with the new found cylinder head pressure... Also heat treat the valve springs for more tensile strength.. Drop 5 to 10g's in a very average cart and run in Minden Louisiana. Nationals for gocarts.

Hope I helped somebody...

Did I mention Dura-lube... Give it a try in any small engine.. You'll be surprised..