Costco has a B&S "PowerBoss" 7,000 watt (12,000 surge) generator powered by a Honda GX390 13hp OHV engine priced @ $899.99. The local Honda implement dealers best match is Honda generator EM6500 priced @ $2649.95 (same GX390 engine - but with electric start.) I know, I know, you get what you pay for, but 3X the price? Since both have the exact same engines, I have to assume the price difference is in the electronics. I'll always pay for quality, but I'm having a really hard time trying to jusify the additional $1,700 for the Honda. 2 year Warranty on both.

Any and all thoughts on this are appreciated.

Thanks

But.. If you buy the generator and do need parts for the engine. You can order them at the link below.

How do you plan to use the generator? If you'll use it everyday, non-stop, they I'd get the Honda. If you'll use it once or twice a year for a few hours, I'd get the Costco model.

Incidently, I bought my generator from Costco about 8 years ago. I use it once or twice a year during power outages and it works everytime.

I am willing to bet that it does not have Honda stickers or anything else to indicate that it is a Honda.

They are just built, painted and made to look like a Honda.

You know the ole saying.. If it looks like, sounds like.... Well some fool will take it as being the real thing.

The bitterness of low quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.

Maybe he's able to look at a completely unmarked engine and determine it's a "Honda GX390 13hp OHV". However, if he can do that, I doubt he'd come here and ask for advice on a generator.

Why is it so hard to believe that there's a generator at Costco with a Honda engine for $900?

Here's some info I found on another forum:

Briggs and Stratton "PowerBoss"
13 hp Honda OHV engine
7000 watts, 12,000 starting watts
7 gallon fuel tank
10" pneumatic wheels

$899.99 + tax

I appreciate the feedback. Regarding the potential "Chinese Honda", the box is clearly imprinted with "Honda Engine", the engine itself is clearly marked "Honda - GX390" - Not to say that they can't be fakes. Heck, fakes have been made since the beginning of time, and some of those fakes are worth more than the originals!!! In any case, fake or not, B&S has a two year warranty and Costco takes back anything, anytime. I hope to use this only once or twice a year. Since that is the case, I've yet to be convinced that purchasing a "dealer Honda" generator is worth the additional $1700.

Again, I welcome your thoughts.

I would buy the Costco unit.

Beware the "Honda worshippers" that are trying to take over the planet!

BTW, there are small-engine shops all over the country that can service engines.

-Deerslayer

Once you buy it I suggest you take the engine model and serial # to any dealer who is authorized to do Honda warranty work and have him check the serial # out on his system. B&S purchased Generac generators back 2 or 3 years ago, Generac made a real good generator. Porter-Cable purchased the power generator division from DeVilbiss back 2-3 years ago also. DeVilbiss made a very good generator especially when equipped with a Honda engine instead of a flat head Tecumseh or Briggs. Could it be a chinese knock off? YES. Is it likely? I seriously doubt it, but it is easy enough to check it out after you purchase it and return it to Costco if your not happy with what you found out. You do not have to run it to establish exactly where its from ! Just get a small equipment dealer to help you out.

Why would Briggs compromise their corporate name and reputation with Chinese knock offs imitating Honda and why would they use the Honda name, logos etc. and have their arsses sued off in court by Honda.

I believe Honda may now have surpassed Briggs as the worldwide largest supplier of small engines. Briggs does remain #1 in North America because of their cheap entry level engines.

You could also do the above before the purchase if Costco has a floor sample. This would confirm that the engine is indeed Honda and not a Chinese knockoff.

-Deerslayer

You can buy the PowerBoss 7000 for $699.99 on eBay right now.

They are excellent generators and are built with top quality components. They just have to meet the price point set by the vendor and that is why they are such a good deal. It’s not unusual for Briggs & Stratton to use a Honda engine for these generators. Heck, Coleman uses Briggs & Stratton Intek and Vanguard engines as well as Robin/Subaru, Honda, Tecumseh and a few others on their "Black Max" series. All of the engines are legitimate in every respect.

Due to the slow hurricane season many vendors are faced with having to lower their prices to move inventory.

That's the most insightful point made on this thread.

-Deerslayer

Usually they will keep the same model number and use a suffix, like GX390.abcp or whatever. Sometimes it will be the exact model number and you can only tell what is in it be serial number (you have to get a proper parts list for the serial number).

I am not saying this is the case with the mentioned genset, as I don't know, but it is a very real possibility.

I know this happens because I worked in the Engineering dept of one of the premier high pressure pump manufacturers, and we did it on a fairly regular basis. Not because the engineers wanted to, but because of requirements from the salesman and owners.

It looks like most of the cost saving comes from manual start only. Usually generators of this size have electric start.

I'd be confident in buying this generator.

Are these units as good as a $2500 Honda or Yamaha unit. No they are not. They lack many features that the better generators have. But for a home back up system they are excellent and will do the job for years. Home back up units are not used that much and with proper maintainance I doubt you would wear it out in a couple decades.

Now the Yamaha's and Honda's that are +1700 will last longer, but are designed for more use. They are also considerably more quiet. The price difference is mostly found in the alternator used and the muffler system employed. If you want a quiter unit for more jobs than just home backup then that is where the Honda's and Yamaha's shine. But if all you use it is once or twice a year, you don't really need one of these.

My personal preference for generators is having two units. A decent home backup unit like the Briggs noted in this and a super quiet inverter generator at 2-3kwfor more common usage. During a power outage I can run my well and fridges and freeezers occaisonaly with the home back up unit. And also watch TV all night with the inverter and not keep the neighborhood awake.

adrian writes : $1,700 for the electric start ?? More reasonable is $170 for the start..
Cosco's profit is but $100 and the Honda dealers profit is $1,000 !!!!!
This, of course, makes no sense....
And there is still roughly $600 unaccounted for - some can be saved by throwing QC to the winds , but not that much...

I also own a Wen "Power Pro" 5.5 engine (from Pep Boys), which is a Jiangdong GX160 clone. This is installed on a mini bike. Once again, it starts reliably and runs much quieter than the B&S 5HP side valve engine it replaced. Not bad for $129 on sale! I am tempted to buy the Power Pro 6.5 (GX200 clone) for my new Troy Bilt pressure washer because the 7HP Intek engine pops and misses under light load. (sounds like the thing is jetted a smidge too lean to please the enviro-whackos)

Note that none of these Chinese manufacturers are trying to pass their products off as genuine Honda engines, and they all have EPA certification, and many times even have the very strict CARB certification. I doubt that they are total trash if they have been certified by these agencies. My local power equipment dealer says that they are built under license from Honda. I don't know if this is true, maybe any patents on the GX design have expired. (Note that every TV manufacturer has flat screens like the Sony Trinitron since the patents on the Trinitron picture tube lapsed several years ago)

Only power equipment fans will recognize these engines as clones, most "big box" consumers couldn't tell a Honda from a Tecumseh anyway.

Does Honda make a better engine than the clone manufacturers? I'd say yes.

Is it worth the extra price? Depends I suppose. For a guy like me, who doesn't use the equipment commercially, probably not. If I depended on the equipment everyday for my business, the genuine Honda (or other premium engine) would make sense.

In the case of the Generac-now-B & S that HD sells, they plug configurations are usually "vanilla". The original Generac 7500EXL had a 50-amp plug; the Generac 7550EXL at HD did not. This is but one example...

I did buy this generator the first week of October,2006. We had one of the most damaging wind storm ever in Western Washington in mid December. We lost power to our home Thursday evening, Dec. 14 and it was finally restored Monday evening Dec, 18. This generator worked GREAT! We were able to stay in our home during the outage (we have a wood stove for back-up heat). I plugged it into my Gentran transfer switch, fired it up with 1 pull, flicked the transfer switches, and presto - - POWER to the circuits! I ran it 2 hours each morning (so we could make coffee and see what we were doing) and then cranked it up about 4:30 each afternoon for about 6 - 7 hours each evening. It ran the fridge, freezer, microwave, lights, TV ,a 1500w oil filled heater, and most importantly, the septic pump, - obviously not all at the same time - without missing a beat. Gas usage was approx .85gal/hr. I'd top off the tank each evening. It's not the quietest generator ever, but pointing the muffler away from the home minimized the noise. Never in a million years could I tell you why this is the year I decided to by a generator - - but it sure did pay off.

2)Does this generator have "idle control" ie does the rpm decrease significantly w/o a load applied? This feature is very important to me as I will be using this unit to power tools, compressors, and water pumps intermittantly at a job site.
Thanks

The 13 hp engine is quite a bit harder to pull, especially if something is wrong and it takes a few pulls (my fuel filter was plugged once).

This is not surprising considering there are not many 13hp Honda mowers with pull start.

Have a great day,

Brad

2)The rpm's will be constant regardless of load. Lowering the rpm's changes the output voltage so they don't let you do that. You usually only have "on", "choke" and "off" settings with nothing in between.

By the way, what happened to Hippy?

By the way, the engine is a overhead cam design driven by a timing chain. It is one of the quietest small gas engines I have ever heard.

The generator was $599

If warranties were only a marketing scam then Honda ought to be willing to guarantee all their engines for the same time period, not 2 years for some of them and 90 days for the rest. For example: Honda engines are only warranted for 90 days for "commercial use" for the GC and GCV engines, 1 year for a lot of the GX series engines, and 2 years for GXV and the rest of the GX series engines.

Briggs does the same thing: Vanguard series are warranted for 2 years, all the Inteks are just one year and everything else is 90 days. Or no warranty at all for generator engines used for commercial use or "prime power" use.

Subaru warrants all 4 cycle Subaru Robin engines for two years whether they be used for consumer or commercial use, and recently added the 3rd year of coverage for consumer use.

I need the quietest model possible because I live just 10 feet from my neighbor. I'm wondering if quietness is one of the "extras" the PowerBoss model sacrificed? One post said it was quiet. I need REALLY quiet. But do I need $1700 of quiet? I'm just going to use the generator for the big earthquake that is going to hit California some day.

My research said that Hondas were the quietest motors out there with a range of 65-75 dB. I noticed that manufactures conveniently leave the decibel level off the fact sheet and packaging.

Do any of your PowerBoss owners know what the decibel level is? Would this engine disturb my neighbors? (Don't feel too sorry for me, I live 3 miles from the ocean and don't ever need air conditioning!) :-)

Since I don't know squat about engines, I really thank you all for your comments. It's been very helpful to me.

Thanks, Anita. Ventura, California

Because the PowerBoss is made by Generac Portable Products (which is owned by B&S). Generac uses Honda, Mitsubishi, Tecumseh, Robin and B&S engines on their generators. Also, Generac makes their own engines! PowerBoss has used Honda engines on many of their generator models.

"BTW, Jiangdong is being sued by Honda for patent & copyright infringements on their motor."

You don’t know what you’re taking about. The "Chonda" engines made by Jiangdong are copies of the Honda GX series. The patents on the Honda GX series engines ran out in 2003. It’s no wonder that "Chonda" engines started to show up in the USA in early 2004! Patents are designed to run out in 20 years so that other manufacturers can start using the technology. The "Chonda" engines you see are completely legal and of good quality too!

Read the article below and try to smell what you're shoveling from now on. By the way, if Lifan or Jiangdong made airplanes, would you fly in one?

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-09/06/content_372008.htm

Jiangdong has never been sued by Honda. You have lost all credibility. You would be wise to retreat from this subject.

You need to start talking to some more knowledgeable and professional people... such as your local Honda dealer. Freehold Honda/Triumph which is the largest volume Honda retailer in the Northeast, told me that Honda filed suit against Jiangsu Jiandong Group Imp & Expo Co., Ltd. for trademark/patent/copyright infringement AKA: piracy. The basis for the lawsuit is that the Chinese motors originated from Honda and Jiangdong is taking old Honda GX blocks and rebuilding them with replica parts. Customers have complained that they were deceived into purchasing an imitation Honda motor and when they take the motor in for service, it cannot be fixed. It's no different than bootlegging or copying a CD/DVD and selling it as the original. I'm not saying these "Chonda" motors are bad, (I've heard good things about them) but no repair shop I know can get parts and some dealers refuse to work on them.

And by the way, I go into my Honda dealer frequently because I own 2 motorcycles, a generator, a snowblower and a lawn mower...all Honda.

As for the honda or not, IMO honda's are very competitively prices in most cases they are way cheaper than kolher, and usually priced at or below B&S.

Therefore, it is acceptable to advertise the GX390 as being a 13 HP engine.

That engine develops 13HP@4,000 rpm. But, your generator must stay @ 3,600 rpm. At 3,600 rpm that engine develops 11HP. So for that generator-engine application the 4k rpm hp rating of that engine is useless. There really should be "truth in advertising" laws to prohibit a company from advertising a power level of a single highest component of a multi-component product. Laws already prohibit a car company from selling a car as a 165mph auto just because the tires are rated for that speed.
Your gen head will be no greater than 80% efficient.
If your 11hp@3600 engine (8,206 watts) was running on it's very best day, and your gen output (80% efficient assuming it's the best quality) would be 6565 watts AT BEST. How can this be sold as a continious 7k generator?...but of course that's another story.

I have a briggs 6500 kw generator as well. I beleieve Ipaid around $600 for it. It is loud. Their is no comparison to a Yamaha 6500 KW invertor style generator. The Yamaha or other similar make is probably 20 decibles quiter. Go take a look at them at the store. Also, the invertor style generators are way more stabile and can power sensitive electronic equipment, while a standard generator isn't recomended for that use (can damage or deystroy with a power surge).

The downside is the price. Most models are 2k or way more.

i know this is an old thread but the issue will go on forever. my personal feeling if i were to buy another generator, is to buy the same deal the OP described. many suppliers offer generators with real honda engines for about $200 more than a similar sized unit with a honda clone. AND - even the honda clones these days are extremely reliable if broken in and maintained properly. what many people dont know, is the clone engines are designed using expired honda patents, and have come a long way in recent years. the karting world even has a separate racing class for them, and a 6.5 hp engine can be modified to push almost 20hp and rev up to 9000 rpm. that being said, a clone motor will have NO PROBLEM running a generator at 3600 for the occasional black out and power loss so long as you use common sense to maintain it. i dont care if JESUS HIMSELF built your honda generator, if you leave the same gas in it for 4 years - your carb will need to be cleaned.

now - i am not saying that honda and honda clones are of equal quality and reliability, but something has to be said for a $650 ETQ generator with a pure sign wave, that makes more power (7250 cont) and will keep my lights on just as well as a $3,000 Honda with 5000 cont watts.. furthermore, after your 2 year warranty expires on your $3,000 honda, you can enjoy the $100 an hour labor rate, and $1200 repair bill god forbid you ever need to bring it to a dealer for repair - THAT YOU WILL DO since you spent so much money for the "best"
me on the other hand - if my $650 generator gets used 3 times in years, i will feel i got my moneys worth out if it, and it it dies - i will toss it the garbage or sell it for parts, and buy another brand new generator with another 2 yr warranty for less than you paid for the labor alone on your repair bill..
- unless your a contractor using the thing on remote jobsites for 30 weeks out of the year, you have no need for a $3,000 portable generator anyway, because this is who these things are made for. for $2400 you can buy a 12kw whole house standy unit at costco made by generac, thats completely automatic, runs off natural gas, and is big enough to run 2 central air units along with most of your home. lastly - I hate to break the news to all the honda guys, but honda is not the "top of the line" when it comes to reliable generators. i work for a major utility company, and you will not find ONE honda generator on ANY utility truck.