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Waterproofing a basement

Posted by HuskymaniacNY z5 NY (My Page) on
Tue, Dec 13, 05 at 14:01

I get water in my basement just about every spring and fall when the heavy rains hit. We have clay soil and my foundation was not installed with proper drainage. As a result, we get hydrostatic pressure build up against the walls (concrete block) and the water trickles in at several locations where there is even the slightest crack. It comes in through the walls and where the walls meet the footer. It isn't too bad but will puddle up and cover the floor if I don't wet/dry vac it up every couple of hours. I installed a sump pump but it is useless because there is no way for the water to reach it except for when it gets high enough to cover the floor.

Options I have heard about:

1. Dig up the foundation on the outside and put in the stone, drain tiles and pipe to get the water away from the walls. I really don't like this option as it is the most costly and would tear up all of our foundation plantings.

2. Dig a french drain around the perimeter of the basement floor and route the water to the sump pump. This isn't bas but it is still very expensive (~$10K). Also, there is a risk of the drain pipes eventually filling with silt over several years so it may not be permanent.

3. Cut a small trench (~2") around the perimeter of the basement floor to catch the water coming out of the water and route it to the sump pump. Not bad and I can clean it out after every event to make sure it remains clear. The only problem with this is the mess of doing it. Dust everywhere!

4. Install these plastic baseboard gutter thingies that were demonstrated on "This Old House". They epoxy down to the floor and against the wall to create a tall and narrow "gutter" with the floor and wall that then is routed to the sump pump. It should be the cleanest and cheapest method. One issue is that our floor was painted with some useless waterproofing junk that will have to be stripped off first. That is still less messy than cutting into the floor. The other issue is that any water that finds its way onto the center of the floor will not be channelled to the sump pump. I can still leave most of the sump pump hole accessible to the inside of the floor, however, in case there is a major water problem in our basement like the water holding tank for our well suddenly leaking out at high pressure or our septic tank backing up, etc. But, for now, I don't think we are getting ground water in through any part of the floor.

Any comments on these options or other suggestions?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Waterproofing a basement

  • Posted by rredogg 5/Chicago Area (My Page) on
    Tue, Dec 13, 05 at 20:00

Husky,

I went with option #3 years ago but I hired a local company to come out and do the work. They did about a 6" trench in the basement. I may be a good idea to call a local company out and give you a price (and maybe a couple of ideas). The job was done pefectly and stopped all the seepage on the floor. And yes there was plenty of dust. (6 mexican workers and a jackhammer).

Good luck, rredogg


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

6" deep or 6" wide? I'm not sure if my floor is even 6" deep!!!


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

Seems to me, your only other option is to sell during the dry season, and move to Arizona! Other than that, better either live with it, or hire a company to come in and fix it! You don't have much choice, do you?
Oh, you could spend years chipping the floor out by yourself, to make an inside ditch, etc, or spend months digging up around the outside of the foundation, so you could save a buck or two, but, Geez, by the time you got done digging it all out, the part you did first would be all caved in again!
Or, go rent a ditch witch, or a small backhoe, and dig it yerself!
Any way, the inside route will make dust and mud, the outside route will make mud and dust, so just go do it!
The end result is what you want to accomplish, so go to it. Only other thing that might slow it down is that heavy water-proofing stuff you slather on the inside of the foundation, but its only a short-time solution! Don't ask me how i know!
Rustyj


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

I would first start by making sure you have gutters and the downspouts divert the water away from your house. Along that same concept is to ensure you have proper drainage AWAY from the house, all the way around. That alone will solve many problems.

If those conditions have already been met, please disregard my comments.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

  • Posted by rredogg 5/Chicago Area (My Page) on
    Wed, Dec 14, 05 at 20:12

Husky,

The trench was 6" wide and could have been 6-8" deep. They broke up the cement, then removed bucket upon bucket of the clay soil below the cement, laid stone for the trench and then recemented after their install.
If your going to attempt this on your own try and read up on the install process or talk to someone in the business. You only want to do this one time with no mistakes.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

OK, so you basically had option #2 done on your basement. No, I would never dream of doing that myself. I have read differnt approaches to this. You mention one. Another is to do the same digging but install these plastic tubes that collect water coming from the walls as well as the ground and route it to a sump pump or appropriate drain.

How much did this cost you and what is the rough square footage of your basement? I have seen quotes in the 8-10K range and if not done right, the drain pipe can eventually fill with clay silt and completely render the solution useless. The cost, mess and potential short term nature scare me.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

  • Posted by john_c N.EAST GA. (My Page) on
    Thu, Dec 15, 05 at 20:28

Have you tried to grout the joint at the wall/floor with Hydraulic cement?, and or paint the walls with a product called "dryloc" made by UGL. If wall cracks are wider than 1/8" you may want to grout them with the hyd cement also before you seal with dryloc, do any of the wall cracks go horizontally or are they all vertical? If you have horiz. cracks you got major trouble just up ahead. Also as Machiem has said you MUST insure correct the surface drainage, or all other efforts are in vain.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

#4 works really well. In MN its called a Beaver system. Cheapest and typically done correctly the first time. Make sure your grading is proper outside, and gutters are up. These problems make up over 80% of all wet basements.

When you do sell disclose this. A property disclosure is a get out of jail free card. It most likely will not affect price or saleability but if you dont expect to be sued for the most expensive repair and all the attorney bills.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

I went the #4 method in 1992. A team of 5 workers took 8 days to do my basement. I had the entire perimeter French drained. It cost me about $6,000 which was $1,000 more than the estimate. My basement had no footer and my floor was only 1 1/2 inches of concrete. There was no way to cut a ridge in the concrete (a necessary part of the drain)because it was too thin. The building contractor really skimped during construction back in 1950. I ended up pouring a 18" by 18" footer with rebar around the entire perimeter.

Today this would be a $10,000 job but it had to be done.
Try selling a house with a basement that floods.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

"Also as Machiem has said you MUST insure correct the surface drainage, or all other efforts are in vain."

I've got a pretty solid gutter system and drainage is good with one slight exception and that is the driveway which does have some low spots near one corner of the foundation. That is one source of water but I think the overall problem is known as the "clay bowl" effect. We have a PREDOMINANTLY clay soil. When the foundation is put down they dig out a hole and put the foundation in the hole after which they backfill the hole with, ideally, some slope away from the house. The problem is that the backfilled soil is less dense than the walls of the original hole so the "hole" holds water in the less dense soil just as if it were empty. That causes the hydrostatic pressure to build up and any crack will leak eventually.

So, while sloping my driveway better will help, I don't think it will solve my problem. I have to either spend a ton of money to dig the basement up again to drain the water away or I have to find a way to get it out of the basement.


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RE2: Waterproofing a basement

"#4 works really well. In MN its called a Beaver system. Cheapest and typically done correctly the first time. Make sure your grading is proper outside, and gutters are up. These problems make up over 80% of all wet basements.
When you do sell disclose this. A property disclosure is a get out of jail free card. It most likely will not affect price or saleability but if you dont expect to be sued for the most expensive repair and all the attorney bills."

I know what you mean. I have given some thought to going after the previous owners who HAD to have known about this. I know that because there are patches and several layers of various types of paint on the floors and walls to deal with the problem. The problem with suing the previosu owner is that the husband died a couple years back from a lung disease. What am I gonna do, sue the widow? Now I have to disclose this and pay the price. More life lessons learned I guess...


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

With the driveway deal perhaps muddjacking would help. Fairly inexpensive. I would only do this IF the water is primarily coming in from that area. Good luck!


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

Please expand on muddjacking. That is a new term to me.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

mudjacking is where they drill holes about 2inces diameter in concrete, they then use pressure to "jack" up the concrete creating proper drainage. Its fairly inexpensive, and lasts a long time. My house I just bought had this done 5-10 years ago and there has been no setteling sice. (driveway and front sidewalk) It helps with water drainage but if its your entire basement it wouldnt help solve your problem. Just google mudjacking. Lots of contrators pop up and many of them have better descriptions and photos.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

One more idea... This worked for me...
Dig about 6" deap of dirt away from your house and put in about 2" of Bentonite and recover with your dirt... This will stop the water from sinking into the ground... This stuff is used to stop ponds from leaking... You can buy it at Agway...


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

The idea about the Bentonite is a good idea.

I have the same problem with a house, where water would enter the basement after long periods of dry weather. I figured the problem was from the clay soil backfilled around the foundation, drying out and shrinking away from the walls, which would allow easy passage of rainwater down into the basement. I was considering removing about two feet of soil along the wall, out and down from the foundation. Using a sheet of EPDM rubber sheet, sealing that to the wall just above grade and extending it down and out into the trench. That should prevent any water problems. A lot of work though.

Using the Bentonite should work even better. Well drillers use that for sealing the bore hole as they drill so the drilling water won't be lost to the soil in the hole. You can mix that to a very thin mix that should flow down and seal the space. It never dries out. You may still need to dig down a foot or so just to allow a space for pouring the mix against the wall.

Well suppliers carry Bentonite. You can ask for drilling mud. It comes in 50 pound bags and goes a long way.

GG



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RE: Waterproofing a basement

any idea what a 50 pound bag of bentonite would cost?

When you say it goes a long way, do you have an example, like 'I spread a 2 foot wide, 40 feet long, 2 inch deep layer that used 2 - 50 pound bags' or something along those lines?

Can you just create a sloped layer of this stuff that would basically form a waterproof barrier that would direct the water away from the house (if the slope starts at the base of the wall)?


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

  • Posted by john_c N.EAST GA. (My Page) on
    Sun, Dec 18, 05 at 17:26

"previosu owner is that the husband died a couple years back from a lung disease. "

Radon ???????


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

100lb bag cost my $7.00 a few years ago... I know you that you can also buy it by the truckload... Farmers use it to mix into the cow feed or something...


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

""previous owner is that the husband died a couple years back from a lung disease. "
Radon ???????"

No, he died of Pulmonary Hypertension, not cancer. Oddly enough, he was mis-dagnosed with cancer as well and denied a lung transplant based on that. By the time they realized that he never did have cancer (not sure what the mixup was) it was too late and he was too far gone.

I found out that the guy was sick at the inspection. My wife got spooked but I convinced her that we should still go through with the purchase versus adding more stress and grief to the guy's life. I regret being nice. They never disclosed any of the problems that the house had (leaky basement, walls and floors that separate, cracking kitchen tiles, etc.) and the wife actually lied about one problem which I specifically asked about because I saw evidence of it.

This house has been a major source of stress for me and is one the biggest mistakes of my life. Now the roof is looking like it has problems (areas of it are "dipping" near the peak). Also, there are several places where the walls are cracking, walls and ceiling are separating, nails are popping, tape is rippling, etc.

I have been so tempted to take the widow to small claims court over the basement but she is a widow and I have a hard time doing it. My upbringing pushes me to do nothing and then beat myself up over the bad decision.


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RE2: Waterproofing a basement

"One more idea... This worked for me...
Dig about 6" deap of dirt away from your house and put in about 2" of Bentonite and recover with your dirt... This will stop the water from sinking into the ground... This stuff is used to stop ponds from leaking... You can buy it at Agway..."

That sounds interesting but most of my foundation is inaccesible now because we have doen a ton of foundation plantings. It would be very expensive and time consuming and depressing to dig all that up to either put stone, drain tile and a pipe around the foundation to drain the water away from tthe walls or try this idea with the bentonite.

If I decide to sell and we either build or buy a house with an accesible foundation, I will probably do this. It can only help with drainage!!!

I am really tempted to pretty up the house, sell it in the spring and build a new house. The problem is that you lose so much money when you sell a house. I guess we can try and do FSBO but, still, it ends up being expensive to move and, of course, we would have to pack all of our crap!!!


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

Husky,

The use of bentonite for sealing a well bore hole as a well is being drilled, uses a mix that is a very thin slurry. It's thin enough that it can be pumped using an ag pump or trash pump. Since you have your foundation plantings which you want to save, you could consider injecting the solution into the ground where the soil meets the basement wall. Perhaps using a small soil auger with a power drill, and drilling down a foot or as far as you can go, along the foundation, would alow you to pump it down into the soil, where it would travel down in the space between the wall and soil. If you did it this way, you may want to drill the hole, put the injecting tube in the hole, seal the top of the hole to prevent blowback, and start injecting solution, I would take care with the pressure so you wouldn't get it blowing back out at you.

Even an old jet well pump would probably provide enough pressure and volume to do the job. Just mix the solution in a barrel or other large container for your supply to the pump. To mix it, put some water in the container, add some bentonite and circulate the mix through the pump. Keep adding more bentonite until you have the viscosity you want.

Just some ideas for you to consider. I'll likely try the same thing this spring, since this post was brought up.

GG


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

I want to make sure I am getting the right picture of this process. Are you saying that I would drill a small (diameter?) hole in the soil right next to the foundation wall, pump this slurry into the hole and let the pressure carry it along the wall surface? I can see how this might work as I think this is how most of the water gets into the soil and builds up pressure agains the wall. The questions are:

1. What diameter hole to drill
2. How far down does it need to go
3. How many holes do I need to drill and pump or, to put it another way, how far apart should these hole be so that I can guarantee that I cover the entire wall surface.

Does this stuff eventually harden? I guess one thing I am having a hard time seeing is how this will be any better than the original foundation at holding back water under hydrostatic pressure. If it hardens, won't it eventually crack over time? If it doesn't harden, how does it not eventually pass water through diffusion? It almost seems like magic to me and I am damn good engineer. I am not, however, a civil or mechanical engineer so maybe I am missing something. I'm just not used to anything seeming like magic.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

Having never done this before, but having good luck with engineering things that usually?work??, I'd get a soil auger from a garden center. I have one that's about 2 inches and about 18 inches long which should be a good size. These are usually used for punching holes around trees to fertilize them deeply. You should go down at least 18 inches, or as deep as practical if you use an extension. For distance between holes, I'd guess about a foot to start. Once you get two or three holes down, start pumping in the first one, and see if you get any of the mud flowing to the next hole. That should give you an idea of success. If 12 inches is good, try the next at 18 or 24 inches.

As far as hardening goes, I don't recall that it does. It just stays moist. I had a grout seal near the pitless adapter on my deep well. I had to dig down there last year to fix a leak, and the well grout which is just a heavier duty material like the drilling mud, was still just as sticky-nasty as when I put it there.

Remember, this operation is only for water that is flowing down the space between the wall and soil due to drying and subsequent rainfalls. If your basement water is caused by a high groundwater level, I wouldn't expect this to solve the problem.

GG


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

Sue the widow. She probably got cash with a life insurance policy and should have no problem forking it over to you. Like in the Godfather. Its buisness this is not a personal matter. Just imagine her going on these trips and sitting on a beach with all the money her widow gave her. The house was probably free and clear when you bought it.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

option #2 is done around here all the time. They refer to it as "drain tiling"We got it done last year. contactors get about 26 dollars a foot. Our house cost 3k.
With a block wall, its very foolproof. They drill holes in the bottom of all the cavities, so they never fill up with water.
Lifetime garantee--you don't have to worry about longevity. The rocks actually take most of the water. The tile onlly drains to the sump when all the trenches fill up with water.
About 10 workers--1.5 days.
They work hard for their money, carrying out buckes of dirt and carrying in buckets of concrete.
This is in st paul, mn by the way.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

Bentonite is only refined clay....
Works great...


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

Elvis,

You got a great deal or labor is dirt chap where you are. My basement perimeter is about 140 feet and the one guy in our area that does this regularly quoted $8K and he claimed that it was a bargain.

When you had this done did they install these plastic gutter things under the floor:

http://www.basementsystems.com/content/504/506/537.aspx


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

Bumping this up as I am coming close to a decision. I have concluded that option #2 listed above is not an option for us as we have a monolithic floor which means that the floor and footers are poured as one piece. Jackhammering the floor near the wall would mean removing part of the footer and risking cracking it. Option #1 is still highly undesirable as it would destroy our gardens and cost a ton of money.

That leaves me with option 3 or 4. I am leaning toward option 4 but there is one small issue with it. The previous owner tried to paint and patch away the problem. The paint on the floor needs to be removed and any concrete patch that was applied to the corner where the floor and wall meets would have to be ground away to get back down to the original floor surface. If we don't do that, the plastic baseboards won't be epoxied down properly or there may be a risk of water seeping between the floor and the concrete patch job which would be sitting under the baseboard. The water could then bypass our whole approach.

Any other comments or suggestions? How would one go about grinding a 1-2" path along our floor. We will probably want to grind down about 1/16th of an inch to be sure we get down to the original floor. By the way, anyone that is interested can see the baseboard approach at www.waterproof.com.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

My dad something similar to your number 4 solution. He made small wooden forms and mixed concrete to form a small "U" channel around the perimeter of the basement.

He also dug a 10 inch channel around the house (4 feet away from the foundation) where the water came rushing towards the house due to the slope of the property and put perforated accordian pipe which was buried under 2 inches of soil.
He might have wrapped the pipe with something to keep the dirt from clogging the pipe and surrounded that with coarse gravel. That pipe fed into a drain pipe leading to the street. I remember checking for flow after a heavy rain. I was amazed by how much running water was intercepted by his system.

Water never reached the basement so I am not sure how the channel would work.

Finally, no matter what you do, try to find a working solution. The selling price of your house will be affected by quite a bit due to a wet basement. This alone may kill the sale of your home and the "hot" real estate market is cooling a bit.
All markets are "local" though.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

Yeah, that is the same concept as the plastic baseboards. Basically, the water is being re-directed by something installed on the floor which makes a channel with the floor and wall.

The outdoor solution you speak of is very common here for houses built on the side of a hill. Our house basically has a problem with surface water being held in the "hole" that was originally dug for the foundation. Out house is on a flat area with grading away from the house on every side except where the driveway is and I intend to fix that.

Does anyone have any suggestions on a tool that can grind a 1-2" wide, 1/16" deep strip along the floor? I need to get through the paint and whatever concrete patch might be sitting on the floor.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

I really feel for you having bought a lemon. The same is true with my house. They didn't disclose. We decided not to go after them becuaee were're not suing types, and because we wanted to not focus on it anymore.
Good luck. I have to get down to the basement, which i've been remodling for mre than a year.
Ben


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

We have a similar problem and were considering option #2. How can you tell if the floor is monolithic? Its a split-level house and the walls in the lower level are cinder block. The floor is covered with vinyl and carpeting.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement


Hi,

Would like to add some facts `n truths on basement waterproofing if i may. First, most people-not all, get water into the basement...onto the floor usually near/along the cold joint from cracks `n other openings in the basement wall and/or 'above' the basement wall.

Most problems are due to cracks/gaps/crevices etc in the walls but 'above' ground openings include open mortar joints,cracked-loose-porous bricks,openings around basement windows,openings around doors `n thresholds,openings in-around flashings and more.

In order to...stop water from entering one must go outside `n seal/fix/waterproof any & all problems-openings. This will stop/prevent mold,efflorescence and when there are cracks `n other openings in basement walls, waterproofing that wall or area of wall where crack is helps stop radon gas from entering through the crack,other opening and will also stop termites `n other insects from entering the same pathways.

ANY Inside drain tile or baseboard system w/sump cannot Stop/prevent water-moisture from entering Outside crack & other direct openings `n so it also will not stop/prevent mold/efflorescence from growing on walls and can`t help stop radon,termites etc either.

Lots `n lots of myths/misinforming out here, most carefully designed/worded to seduce homeowners in to an Inside system. One more thing you need to know about Inside systems...they do Not relieve/lessen/stop/prevent any lateral `n hydrostatic pressure that is against basement walls on the...Outside. These pressures and roots from trees cause walls to cracks, leak, bow `n even buckle inward. Only way to help lessen/relieve pressure is from...outside folks.

What is lateral `n hydrostatic pressure? Where is it? What is the Best remedy? please read 6th, 7th para`s

http://www.yodergroup.com/concrete.asp ....complete gravel/peastone backfill after Waterproofing, NOT Damproofing the wall.

http://www.bobvila.com/ArticleLibrary/Task/Inspecting/FoundationFailure.html

http://www.al-home-inspections.com/news-articles/article-4.html

http://www.riverwatchonline.org/news/winnipeg_press/07_09_05.html

This is your Foundation walls folks, the most important part of your house!

To stop/prevent Mold we must 'stop `n prevent' water/moisture.
http://www.epa.gov/iaq/molds/images/moldguide.pdf

Eflorescence http://www.marshallconcrete.com/41
http://na.hansonbrick.com/en/techNotes/pdf/efflorescence.pdf

Many insects/bugs seem to enjoy wet/damp areas, how do Termites enter? http://www.mipca.org/Termites.htm

"They do 'Not' need direct wood contact to enter, and can enter homes etc through openings as small as 1/32 of an inch"
http://www.askthebuilder.com/Termites_Turn_Wood_to_Dust.shtml

--Radon gas evidently causes lung cancer & kills about 21,000 people each year. Please see 3.Characteristics and Sources... "Radon gas can enter a home from the 'SOIL' through cracks in concrete floors and walls,floor drains, sump pumps,construction joints and tiny cracks or pores in hollow-block walls. Radon levels are generally highest in basements & ground floor rooms that are in contact w/soil"

http://cbs2chicago.com/health/local_story_034173519.html

Cracks in basement walls occur during construction and not long after from soil compacting along Outside of wall.

Cracks can also occur 10, 20, 50 years down the road due to soil expanding `n contracting or roots. They can also occur from....please read article http://www.boston.com/news/traffic/bigdig/articles/2005/03/27/big_dig_now_faces_property_complaints/

Or go back to Bob Vila link and read 'last paragraph'
http://www.bobvila.com/ArticleLibrary/Task/Inspecting/FoundationFailure.html

Tree Roots, Wet Basements
http://landmarksociety.org/section.html?id=1&uid=1&pageId=7

please scroll to -Trees and Your Foundation-
"Strong foundations are sometimes damaged by small roots that entered tiny cracks, then grew and expanded the crack.Large roots can push bulges into the foundation wall....." scroll a lil further down to...Wet Basements

"Also, be wary of Waterproofing Companies who recommend Interior basement perimeter drains and a sump system....you`ll still have open water in your basement thus, the possibility of a musty odor and excessive humidity......" yes, odor(mold-mildew) due to NOT sealing/waterproofing cracks etc on the outside AND, the real possibility of crack(s) opening or widening 'more' because of continued expanding `n contracting of soil, and/or roots against wall.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

Sorry, i like to tell as much of the WHOLE basement waterproofing story as possible, it isn`t as easy as some think, thus the absolute need for long posts.

Many--not all Inside companies like to twist & turn the truths about waterproofing, self interest! Some will tell you that the "Outside walls were already Waterproofed and that, it didnt work when house was built and won`t work now" Well, this is a lie, it really is. lolol, the nerve some of these people have to distort the truth, to misinform,deceive.

What they either...don`t actually know and/or aren`t going to come clean about is, builders at best ONLY 'damproof' the outside of the walls, and...99% do Not backfill w/100% gravel/peastone from footing to within a few inches of grade,as you know, this is Extremely Important! Big DIFF between damproof`g & Waterproofing.

http://www.askthebuilder.com/NH058_-_Waterproofing_Foundations.shtml

"there is a Significant Difference between damproofing and waterproofing"....and backfilling correctly.

5th para " To permanently stop water & water vapor from entering your foundation walls, you need to Waterproof them....damproofing is an inexpensive way to meet the lowest standard of the building code"

Many Inside companies-not all, will advertise in yellow pages,newspapers and tell you that an Outside method is "Very Expensive".....says who? Them? Companies who ONLY or rather do an Inside system? Let me ask you, do they somehow set the price/costs for Outside Contractors? lol, its a joke and a lie.

They and...at least one national radio hm imp. host will redundantly state that an Outside contractor will charge $200-300+ per ft. This is NOT true! lol, hardly. Fcats is, most of us Honest/exp/lic `n insured contractors charge $80-125 per ft. This is a far cry from $200-300+. For instance, according to 'them' 1 wall that is say....30' in length and has cracks etc will cost you $6,000-9,000!!!

If this were true, i`d have retired a very long time ago,lol. Fact is, most will charge $2,400-3,000, if you have a Big house which has a deep basement then yes, it will cost $125 per ft... 3,750 ish

Another fact, if you Only have 1 wall that has a couple cracks etc...leaks along 1 wall, then this is ALL you need to do/waterproof. Please don`t believe the other garbage some want to tell you, like if you waterproof the 1 wall, the water will simply find another way in. hahaha

This is not true, its just a ploy to bs you into 'their' system. Look, if you`ve been in a house for 5, 10 whatever years and always see the water at/along 1 wall and Not anywhere else, again, this is all you need to do, this is where your problems are.

IF there were crack(s) or other openings elsewhere you would be.......Leaking elsewhere! No water by other walls means, NO problems are there....grrr.

Hey, i`ll dig from here to China for ya, but when you only leak/seep from 1 corner, 1 area, then 'that' is where your problem is. Why do homeowners get talked into an Inside system for all 4 walls when they are only seeing water along 1, 2 walls, or 1 corner? Some of us know why.

And again, most homeowners problems are from cracks `n other outside openings, Inside systems do NOT stop/prevent water that will continue to enter, cause more mold/efflorescence, allow the possibility of radon `m termites to enter and many folks have cracks/walls bowing in due to Outside pressures.

If an Inside System was the way to stop water and all other possible problems i`ve pointed out, I and other contractors would have been doing it a long time ago, its much easier,less labor intensive and costs Alot less, much less materials needed. Our backs,knees and general health would be way better off, please don`t think we want to hand dig all these jobs, No! lol, its what is most often necessary to fix your problem(s), thats why.

Some Inside companies will advertise or state they charge $30-40 per ft including sump. This is Not true in most cases either. If it were let`s take a small bungalow and say the inside perimeter footage is 100', a nice easy number to work with.

Ok, at $30-40 per ft w/sump...4 walls or all 100' should cost you $3,000-4,000. 2 walls or say 50' should cost $1,500-2,000. and 1 wall @ 30' w/sump $900-1,200.

Now, i`ll bet 9 outta every 10 who`ve had estimates from Inside co`s the quotes have easily exceeded that.

Other contractors and myself know this cuz Many Homeowners who have had estimates from Many Inside Co`s have shown us the estimates! Most will be, depending on size of house/footage etc, at a low end of $5,000-$6,000 and $15,000-20,000 at high end, we `ve seen them year after year, decade after decade.

Is an Inside dran tile system and sump(s) sometimes necessary?
Sure! The key here is,the Honest answer is yes, when the Home was built below sea level, or in a very high water table area, which is Not nearly close to what some believe/tell you. Sometimes a house was built where it shouldn`t have been, like on a spring.

When a house was built in an area as such and, has NO water coming from-near wall,no cracks in walls,no mold or efflorescence on walls BUT, Only has water coming UP through floor cracks or other openings in the floor, then they will certianly need a sump or 2+ to....control the water level under the floor from accumulating `n rising up, especially with heavy-long rains.

As i say this, some homes will ONLY need to have the storm trap snaked. Thats right, there are quite a few homes where there is a blockage here, under the floor, and having an honest/exp plumber snake can often free the blockage which was, causing water to back up and accumulate Under the floor, then rise up through floor cracks and other floor openings including up through the cold joint which is where the bottom of walla nd floor meet.

Snaking should be First choice/recommendation for MANY. And yes, i have quite a few folks you can talk to who Only needed the storm trap snaked, or maybe you`d rather talk w/ the honest plumber i recommend, no problem just let me know.

Some of these same folks who may indeed need an Inside drain tile system and sumps in these high water table areas may also need some/alot Outside waterproofing as well. If they have crack(s) in wall or wall bowing in some then the only way to stop the water from entering and/or relieve-lessen outside pressure is, from the outside.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

video

http://www.wcpo.com/wcpo/localshows/callforaction/4bc6a0f.html
builder has tried and assumed numerous fixes, still leaks. Injected cracks, still leaks, and appears along at least 1 wall, there was an Inside system done, look floor along 1 wall, about 18" wide....new strip on concrete, still leaks.

Not only the leaks but, more cracks occuring in 'all' walls. SE comes over and says' he is not too concerned about further cracks occuring in all walls? Why?

I`m not taking undue shots at this poor guy, i`m sure he is quite knowledgeable on many things, maybe having a bad day, i dont know, but there is a reason for further cracks occuring in the walls. And he recommends an Inside system for the leak problems...this will Not relieve/lessen further outside pressure against the walls and will not stop water from entering the cracks and Other outside openings, mold will begin to grow if the water is not stopped.

Injections? here is a company who does injections and some of their thoughts

http://www.suredrybasements.com/sureDryCrackRepair.html

3rd para " we have had to watch as continued structural movement & further concrete shrinkage have re-opened cracks to Leak. Injection alone cannot provide a lasting solution as cracks get larger and soil expansion `n contraction cause the foundation to shift & settle"

http://www.shakeronline.com/dept/building/FAQ.asp

please scroll to -Wet Basements-
Q) are sumps allowed....? A) yes but it`s not the approach we recommend....
Q)what if the problem isn`t related to surface grading and water is leaking through the foundation? A) the preferred method for dealing w/damp basements is...Outside, all the way down etc....

Remember, fix the area/wall/part of wall that is leaking. Unless you just won the lotto, fix whats broke. If a crack occurs 5, 10+ years down the road on 1 wall then fix it 'If' `n When if occurs. Many homes will only need the 1 wall or 2,3 cracks on couple different walls or 1 corner done...ever!

Think about this, if you do indeed choose an Inside system and the problem(s) are cracks/other openings in walls, then you/they are not going to stop the water from entering, wont stop mold etc.

Will it keep water off most of the basement floor? Yes, it should if it`s done correctly. I mean a drain tile method, NOT a baseboard method,no one should have that done and if they havent found out yet, in time they will.

Many folks these days buy homes that already have a finished basement which is fine except they will Not know what shape the basement walls are really in. They will not know if 1 or more walls have cracks, are bowing in, or even have some mold/efflorescence on walls. No moisture meter on the earth is going to inform you about possible cracks/bowing etc.

Block walls can have hairline to 2++ inch wide cracks on the Outside of the wall and, appear fine on the inside of basement, no visible cracks. Many do not know this, incl`g many Hm Insp.

These vertical, step horizontal cracks or other openings in Block walls is where `n how water enters the hollow blocks, stays inside the block wall and travels down to the bottom course/block, then usually enters where the wall and floor meet, the cold joint. This is mostly why you will see mold,mildew,efflorescence,discolorment on some part of walls.

One thing about poured walls,rod holes can be and should be packed/fixed from the Inside.There are many and most are only sealed with a dab of thin tar on outside and/or with a cork, yes...like in a wine bottle. They should have been packed w/hydraulic cement from the onset but is almost never done...yep,it`s about saving time and money.Not whats best for the wall, but whats is best for most-not all builders, its the truth.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

Homeowners must 'First' define what the problem is,can`t have the correct solution until one first diagnoses where/how water is entering, coming in.

to back up to originl post-

1. Very expensive....like i`ve said, says who? Who gave these expensive estimates? Inside companies? The good-honest waterproofing contractors most likely do very little if any advertising, they don`t need to. It`s very much worth your time to find them, get estimates from them
Most-not all basements leak/seep from cracks `n other outside direct openings so this is the only method that will 'stop' water from entering those openings, `n will stop mold/efflorescence on wall. And seals those same pathways where radon, termites can enter and relieves lateral `n hydrostatic pressure `n roots off the outside of wall.

2. Inside drain tile `n sump, is not going to stop water from entering outside openings,won`t stop/prevent mold,efflorescence due to Not waterproofing these cracks/openings and doesn`t relieve/prevent further-future wall movement caused by outside pressures. Is most likely needed in high water tables or homes built below sea level, still may need some outside waterproofing done if there are cracks etc.

3.- 4. Same as 2 except, while they are cheaper(cheaper `cos very little work `n materials compared to others)these have even less value, and keep less water off the floor.

The following is for public information, only. Posting these does Not mean they are dishonest etc,they may be the very best companies and, on the other hand may not, let the public decide...and Notice how many are indeed Inside co`s. check w/BBB yourself http://www.search.bbb.org

80 complaints last 36 months Basement Doctor Waterproofing Trevose,PA

20 complaints last 36 mth Seacoast Waterproofing Pawtuckett,RI

35 complaints last 36 mth C & M Waterproofing St Louis,MO

16 complaints last 36 mth Everdry Waterproofing of Michiana,IN

41 complaints last 36 mth Mid Atlantic Waterproofing South Plainfield,NJ

71 complaints last 36 mth Mid Atlantic Waterproofing Laurel,MD

27 complaints last 36 mth Mid Atlantic Waterproofing York,PA

32 complaints last 36 mth Mid Atlantic Waterproofing Boothwyn,PA

51 complaints last 36 mth Ever Dry Waterproofing Hilliard,OH

45 complaints last 36 mth Everdry Waterprf`g Cranberry Twp,PA

52 complaints last 36 mth Ever-Dry Waterprf`g Fort Wayne,IN

35 complaints last 36 mth Wholesale Waterproofers Newbury,OH

17 complaints last 36 mth Vulcan Basement Waterprf`g Fenton,MO

22 complaints last 36 mth Vulcan Waterproofing River Grove,IL

20 complaints last 36 mth Ohio State Waterproofing Macedonia,OH

28 complaints last 36 mth Boston basement Technologies Brockton,MA

23 complaints last 36 mth The Crack Team St Louis,MO

need this list go on? it could for quite awhile.

Again, these may be the very best `n brighest in waterproofing `n may not.

Most people could understand 1,2 'total' complaints on a company if they`ve been in business a long time, but 2,4,6+ every year, year after year? apply common sense

If what some companies sold you, installed for you was what was needed, was the correct fix and was diagnosed properly, why so many problems?

If they made a boo boo and had to come back, and came back without any fussing etc, and did fix it correctly, most would not have gone through long,pain in but complaint process. And quite a few homeowners do NOT bother to file a complaint, they just want their problem solved.

Waterproofing is nowhere close to companies like Walmart,HM Depot etc who service thousands daily. I can post numerous companies as such whose stores have been around for 20,30+ years and have 0 or 1 'total' complaints. Thats right,no way do i `n other honest contractors buy the 'Oh, complaints come with being in business' or 'We do alot of work, thus some complaints' thats a crock imo `n others.

Here are some examples of why the complaints...basement wall has pushed/bowed in more since work was done....crack(s) have widened creating more mold/efflorescence etc...excessive humidity in basement caused from allowing water/moisture in, odor has gotten worse....this is why many try `n also sell you a dehumidifier! ...`n others

Have you noticed many-not all want to place a sheeting/paneling up against part of, or all of basement wall on inside? It`s to hide-conceal further wall movement,crack(s) e-opening, water running down wall,mold/efflorescence on wall etc.Thats why.

Go ahead and ask any Inside Co if their guarantee covers water entering through the basement wall, ask them if it covers more mold/mildew on wall, ask them if their Inside system will relieve/stop/prevent lateral`n hydrostatic pressure that is Outside against the wall, will their system help stop/prevent radon `ntermites from entering un-sealed cracks etc. ask them to...put this in writing!!!

Radon gas enters the basement/house through openings in walls AND floors.
http://www.epa.gov/radon/pubs/physic.html

See 3.Characteristics and Sources

Look where `n how radon enters...now, most, maybe all Inside companies do 'not' seal the bottom 6" or so of cracks on the inside of basement, they leave them open. Yeah, another perfect pathway for radon to enter.

Drilling holes in bottom courses of block walls? lol, same thing, this allows the distinct possibility of 'more' radon to enter the basement. And think of allowing the water to continually enter the blocks, can you say block Deterioration?

Many will require at least 1 sump, another hole in the floor. I sure wish more of these companies would include a proper sump-lid/cover to help keep more radon from entering. Sure, there are radon remediation techniques,for instance a pipe in the bsmt floor which is eventually run outside. Thats fine and does lower radon gas from......under the floor. But it does not stop any radon from entering through cracks/gaps etc in basement walls, gotta seal those openings.

Go ahead `n ask these companies about leaving the bottom of crack(s) open, about drilling holes in block walls etc. You`ll get some goof ball answers including 'Oh, the holes relieve hydrostatic pressure'....NO it doesn`t, ha. See Yoder/B Vila/AL-Hm-Insp links again. They drill the holes to allow the water into their inside system, the water is still entering from the outside in 'most' cases. They leave the bottom of crack open for same reason, it helps 'divert' the water into their tile or baseboard system, but it doesn`t stop it.

Some don`t get it, they assume because they don`t have water on the floor anymore, that the problem is solved. But many do indeed find out a lil down the road, 1,5,10 years later, the wall(s) bowing in, more cracks appearing, more mold etc. Those with finished basements will have no clue. Some find out the shape of the walls when they want to remodel basement `n tear down old paneling/drywall.

On the other hand, the ones who find out more often are the buyers of a home where an Inside system was done. Many will re-do the basement after moving in, its too late. Like i said, check/carefully read those guarantees, what do they cover, what don`t they cover.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

Posted by: machiem Z8 WA (My Page) on Wed, Dec 14, 05 at 16:15

I would first start by making sure you have gutters and the downspouts divert the water away from your house. Along that same concept is to ensure you have proper drainage AWAY from the house, all the way around. That alone will solve many problems.
If those conditions have already been met, please disregard my comments....................

I believe Machiem has nailed the problem..

Other than ensuring that roof rain water is diverted away from the house, I have done nothing to merit a dry basement.
The surrounding soil is clay and stones. The 80 year old foundation is 18" of brownstone? and local stones(York county,PA) with some mud? as a filler..

This house was built as cheaply as possible,IMO, but intelligently.
The slope is 2 to 3 inches per foot, ensuring the the water drains away from the house.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

if a homeowner has cracks in the basement wall(s) then, this is why `n how water is entering. Fix the cracks correctly.

during the last 25+ years, my guys and i `n other contractors keep trying to explain this to people, having longer downspout extensions, raising the grade etc will divert 'some surface water' away 5-10'. It doesn`t seal/fix the cracks. There is NO underground slope/bias.

we `ve seen all the 'supposed' 80-90% fixes, they do Not fix the actual problem period. Try all you like folks, divert etc. No wonder there are more `n more lawsuits in courtrooms on exactly this subject.Too many myths `n misinformation.

Sellers thinking/assuming they fixed the leak by diverting some surface water, due to some HI or radio HI host like Haege who`ve never done 1 waterproofing job in their life, let alone had to guarantee it over long period of time. Buyers move in and very often on 1st/2nd heavy or long rain, sure enough there is water on the floor. Raise the grade, extend the downspouts,french drains,mudjack`g etc etc, these water diversions do Not fix the crack(s) in the bsmt wall. lol

I and other extremely honest `n Exp contractors have had it with this supposed 'easy fix' and myth. It is stated over `n over but it is Not true. Saying that it will solve many problems is false. How do You/Others know this? Have you extended downspouts-raised grade for hundreds or thousands of other homeowners? No, but even if you did, did you go back after 1,5,10 years and make 'certain' there was no further problem....see what we mean?

And just what will they recommend to homeowners who have a wall that is bowing in or further cracks in same wall or other walls? What, to raaise the grade some more? Have the extensions extend out into the street? haha come on folks, i wish there were simple solutions to fixing most leaks/seepage problems, but there aren`t.

If you have a crack or 2 in a wall and are selling the house, and disclose that it was supposedly fixed by one of these water diverting techniques, you need to understand that the BUYER has every right to come back on you and have the problem Correctly fixed. There is NO reason they should have to pay for pre-existing cracks/problems, thats the sellers fault, along w/ some HI`s who continue this nonsense about waterproofing.

I`ll bet 99 out of 100 HI`s have NO Bsmt waterproofing Exp, No hands on knowledge. What, somehow passing a test or 2 or reading a book or 2 gives them 20,30+ years of hands on exp `n knowledge? Doesn`t work that way in this trade, sorry, but you go ahead `n continue to believe what you like. Anyone who`d like to talk w/other exp-honest contractors, say the word, don`t believe my stuff, talk to others, find out.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

I've done five of these foundation repairs.
The scope of work included:
Digging a trench around the perimeter of the building.
Digging a trench to daylight.
Power washing the foundation walls.
Using foundation sealer on the walls
Installing perimenter drain
Backfilling with 3/4" stone, all the way to the top.
I have had no call back on any of these jobs.

In a couple of the jobs we installed 2" of syrofoam
on the walls, this really helps with the heat loss
if you are in a northern climate.

We used a rented terramite backhoe to do the digging
on a couple jobs. These minibackhoes are nice cause
they can get in tight spots.

The long way is sometimes the shortest path to a solution

Good luck

Claude


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

I have tried the easy way and licwaterproofer is right. All the gimmicks are a joke. It took blood sweat and tears and 8 days of labor with 5 men to do my French drain with a sump. Never a drop of water after 14 years.

When I bought my house 14 years ago the homeowners said "nahhhh never get any water". That was quoted on my inspection report. First heavy rain I got 1/4 inch of water. I was PO'ed to the limit!! Should have sued the SOBs. Disclosure laws in NJ didn't come into effect until 2 years later.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

We had the same problem, previous owners said "that house is so high it could never have water problems." That was a joke, the first big rain and our yard is practically underwater.

The only thing that saved us is that we have an engineered floor and there is a two foot air space between the ground and the floor.

It would take a bunch of water to reach that depth.

Brad


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

I'm back.

Well, the outside solution is clearly the best solution. I can't argue with that. The problem is, it isn't always practical. We have a concrete front porch on our house. It goes the entire length of the the front of the house. How do we get under that to put an outside drain up against the foundation wall?

And then there is the back deck. An easier problem to solve but it would require hand digging under the deck. Most likely, I would have to rip the deck off the house and build a new one after the job is done. How much will that cost? Couple thousand?

Thirdly, we have our driveway. Our garage is on the left side of our house and is set back so that the back wall is in line with the back wall of the house. That means that the front wall of the garage is set back about 10 feet from the front wall of the house. Add another 6 feet for the front porch. We would have to dig up about 15 feet of our driveway and re-pave. Another couple thousand?

And, finally, we have the gradens. Our house is nearly surrounded by foundation plantings 4 feet deep from the foundation walls. We would have to dig all of those plants and bulbs up and re-plant them all after. How much will that cost? Couple thousand?

And what is the cost of digging up the entire foundation? I have heard numbers in the range of 10-12 thousand.

Add it all up and we are talking 15-20 thousand to do the whole job. It would cost me about the same to sell the house and move. Add that as option 5 to my original posting.

About the baseboard system, I will freely admit that we have had issues with it. We have patched leaks in the seams that are caulked about 4 times. I am hoping to eventually get it water tight but it has been a pain. I do blame the contractor though. The guys he had install the thing did a crappy job. I don't think this is rocket science and should work to keep water off the floor.

Now, the concern about mold is a real one. But first the spores need to reach the water. If this fix works and we finish the basement, mold spores should not reach the water behind the baseboards. Think about why mold doesn't grow on the outside of a basement wall, underground. It is because mold spores never reach the damp soil down there. Also, we are planning to use an ozone generating air filter down there to filter and/or kill any spores that are in the air.

Efflorescence is also a real concern. For block walls, drilling the weep holes does help this. The water that enters the cells of the blocks from the outside will drain through the holes instead of sitting in the blocks for an extended period of time. Surely that helps. But, yes, there is still water pressure on the outside surface of the wall. I guess it comes down to how frequent this problem is. If we are talking about water problems once or twice a year then I don't think efflorescence and structural damage to the walls is a major concern even over time. If it is constant, however, then I can see what licwaterproofer is saying.

What I have learned about this is that one should either build their house and make sure the foundation drainiage is done right in the first place or be VERY careful to check it out before buying a used house. I was told that the city inspector often keeps records and even pictures on the installation of the foundation.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

Husky--I can really sympathize with your situation.

We get water in our 1920s rowhouse in DC whenever there is an especially heavy rain--such as the recent deluge where we got 12" in just a few days.

It comes in along one wall that we share with a neighbor (attached rowhouse). He claims that he doesn't get water in HIS basement, and that's logical because we are downslope from him.

It would seem that water enters the space between our connecting brick walls and then flows through a crack into our basement. It's not a deluge or flood, but it's enough to ruin carpets and cause mold on the drywall near the floor.

I have tried to reroute water from gutters,etc. and that hasn't solved the problem. I, like you, have looked at Options 1-4 and have to rule out 1 & 2 as being totally impractical given our yard (we are the corner house, with a 3 foot high retaining wall, iron fence, etc. No way we are going to be able to dig an exterior French Drain) and I am considering Option 3 or 4.

I am going to call some reputable firms and see what they have to say about it all. There doesn't appear to be any "easy" solution to this problem.

Jibba


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

licwaterproofer, thanks for all that great info. Last week we moved into a house in western PA with a basement. The walls and floor were soaking wet. We installed a couple of dehumidifiers, that we have to empty 3 or 4 times a day but we are keeping dry. The humidity has dropped from 95% to about 63%.

I called a firm (Everdry) out to get some advice. I assumed they would assess the situation and advise accordingly. uh-uh! After a few hours I was talked into a $12k system for a 36ft x 25ft basement, with inside and outside drains, a ground water pump, ventilation system etc. The rep, although v nice, completely ignored our comments about hillside run off on one side of the house. Then I lay awake all night thinking how did I get talked into that??
I cancelled the next day & called a local contractor who told me exactly what I thought - the hillside run off was saturating one wall. Days after a rainfall the ground is still totally waterlogged. In a couple of weeks he is digging us a 200ft french drain, the full length of the bottom of the hill. I am very relieved and do hope it helps.

There are a few other issues to tackle with it - the house has been empty for 2 years so the basement is very smelly with some small patches of mold & the stained smelly suspended ceiling. But these are things I hope we can do ourselves.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

Got a big water problem in south. We are just finishing up on our walk-out basement in the south and thought we had fixed every problem about leaking. We put porches all around and even 8'x60' concerete porch on back side above the portion that is unerground. We have french drains that worked until became plugged up because of lack of diligence. We did not carry the drain along the side of the house far enough to empty. We stopped as ran out of pipe and thought we would do it later. We thought it would seep out anyway, WRONG! We unplugged them and water gushed out. We had 20 inches of rain in 24 hours and water filled up against the back of house where concrete porch and garage is. We have not planted grass yet, soil is exposed and it is sandy clay and is all washing away. Come to find out, dozer filled over water and gas lines and graded dirt to slope away from porch. Okay, we left open 2 holes about 2' x 2' about 12 inches from porch slab to install cutoff valves for water lines where comes into house for when plumber came back. Rain came first, water filled those holes and broke through under porch and garage and washed the dirt away, garage is attached to one corner of basement. We now have large void under porch slab and garage which we do not know what to do with? Rain came again this week and we have water seeping through walls everywhere along that back corner. Would that bentonite stuff work or how do we get it filled back in? Even if we fill in holes now and bring back to grade, the voids will still be under slab and I feel like it will always find a way in after we plant grass this spring. We covered with plastic but to no avail, ground is so soaked it is coming through ground. Any suggestions. I know drains will work when it dries long enough for us to get tiles extended but what do we do about filling in the dirt that was washed out under slab? Thanks, this forum has been very helpful.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

i bought the house about almost 3 years ago and the house is 54 years old, when i first look at the house and in the basement have some crack, i asked the realestate guy wat wrong with that and he said that was okie
also in the disclosure of the seller she said there nothing wrong with the basement but recently i got alot of problem with my basement the crack is recracked and the water leaking into my basement , can i come back and sue the seller
one more question is i call the company name woodbasement they come and suggest that i don't need inject the epoxy in the wall because it will recracked in the future, and what they do is install the one is call flexipan :they dig the big hole in my basement throught the footing and lead the water in to it, is this the rightway to do it?
please, give me the advice, thank you very much


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

i bought the house about almost 3 years ago and the house is 54 years old, when i first look at the house and in the basement have some crack, i asked the realestate guy wat wrong with that and he said that was okie
also in the disclosure of the seller she said there nothing wrong with the basement but recently i got alot of problem with my basement the crack is recracked and the water leaking into my basement , can i come back and sue the seller
one more question is i call the company name woodbasement they come and suggest that i don't need inject the epoxy in the wall because it will recracked in the future, and what they do is install the one is call flexipan :they dig the big hole in my basement throught the footing and lead the water in to it, is this the rightway to do it?
please, give me the advice, thank you very much


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

Hire a lawyer.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

Following this with interest, as I'm finishing up a hydraulic cement patch of a 1.5 inch space between an old original basement floor slab and cinder block wall in my small basement - the majority of my house built atop crawlspace around this small central, original subgrade structure foundation. Perhaps once every 5 years a large enough snow melt that I get water seepage.

If anyone is interested, the bentonitic clay (sodium bentonite) is used quite a bit for a variety of reasons . . . gel-chem based drilling fluids, borehole abandonment, bentonitic clay interceptor trenches for contaminant plumes are several that come to mind. A couple of varieties for the waterproofing need come to mind: a bentonitic clay grout, to be mixed with water and either poured or pumped (tremie/grout pump) - this grout could be prepared or made available with variable cement content; as well, bentonitic clay chips - 1/4 , 3/8 or 1/2 inch - literally place and hydrate with plenty of water. As to costs, as an example, I routinely use chips up here fore borehole abandonment with a 25 kg bag of chips running $14/Cdn . . . this providing sealing for about 25 L. CETCO brand is one of many on the market. End result is a thick, gel like consistency with low permeability (note: not impermeable, but an inherent permeability equal to that of high-plastic clay) that persists over time. As anyone who has ever excavated this material up from depth could attest, does indeed maintain it's consistency over time. But, I suspect any bentonitic seal is a temporary measure or, if done with a good comprehensive coverage, perhaps easily on the way to just exposing the wall further and sealing properly. But for what my be a requirement for say, sealing of upper voids against the free-flow of water w/o the need for extensive work, it may be the ticket.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

Sump pumps don't work during black-outs unless it is provided an alternative electricity source. I'm saying this, because too often during heavy rain storms, when the sump pump is needed more than ever, the power goes on the blink.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

We are trying to decide what to do with our basement. We have a really old house. Part of the foundation is rock and the other was an addition that is cinder block. In the addition we gave seen signs of mold and it is extremely humid and it smells like mildew. We have never seen actual sitting water.

We had people from Healthy Home and Right Way basements here. They both agreed that we would need a french drain and a sump pump because there is probably water inside the cinder blocks.

After reading some of the comments I am concerned that it may be as simple as taking a look at our gutters. Any ideas?


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

Taking a look at the gutters should be part of the overall evaluation. In the end, you want to prevent water from building up around your house and get it away from the house as quickly as you can.

That might mean regrading (earth and hardscape) to have it flow away, adding a french drain to give it a path to flow away, waterproofing to keep the water out until it can flow away, gutter system to direct that runoff to a spot where it can flow away, sump pump to mechanically remove water that does settle under the house. The best solutions redirect water away from the house. Waterproofing and sump pumps try to keep water out that is in contact with the house. It greatly helps if you can identify the source of the water and plan from that perspective.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

If anyone is having a problem with mid-Atlantic in the New York area please email me @ chefcap2@verizon.net. They have put their system in my house on Dec. 2 2008. I would like to speak to anyone that has work done in the house from the New York area. I am currently having many situations with their New York Office.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

Has anyone had experience using HomeSpec Basement Doctor located in Ypsilanti, MI? They're suggesting we use the Baseboard Cove method at $39.00/ft.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

HomeSpec in Ypsi is a.... home inspection service.
They mostly-rather or ONLY install INSIDE systems.
Sorry, but your not experts on THIS subject, thats the truth,whether you admit it is another matter.MISREPRESENTING the actual reason(s) WHY-WHERE water is entering and why there is mold,efflorescence or, why a crack(s) occurred or why a wall may bow inward or why radon gas or termites/other insects are entering...for SELF GAIN,is FRAUD.(self gain...they want to sell people an inside system regradless of the real-problem)

Here is another inside system,HOMEOWNER was LIED to about his actual problems/exterior cracks in block wall.........still leaks,has some mold/efflorescence.

His VIDEO is...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM88O2Xhj4g

Homeowner here lied to,is out over $14,000 still leaks
http://www.moneypit.com/ask-tom-leslie/beware-basement-waterproofers.html

State wants to SHUT DOWN Waterproofing Businesses
http://www.theindychannel.com/station/2787262/detail.html

For those who don`t want to TAKE the TIME and read,learn,understand then fine....that`ll be your problem

What does this guy TRY and inform the public about?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-basement-remodel_chomes_0919sep19,0,6134261.story

-WATERPROOFING... "be prepared to weed through an array of proposals from waterproofing contractors--A LOT of THEM
BOGUS. Done right, basement waterproofing is an EXTERIOR
operation...."

Efflorescence http://www.aggregateresearch.com/forum/viewmessage.aspx?AreaID=82&MID=2360

"...the best way to prevent the problem is to prevent water from infiltrating the blocks.....whenever WE see this problem there is usually a leak somewhere that allows WATER to ENTER INTO the BLOCK WALL..."

Mold?
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Story?id=131638&page=3

.."More importantly,you need to ELIMINATE the CAUSE"

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Story?id=131638&page=7

"Remember,cleaning up the mold is not enough. You MUST FIND the WATER SOURCE and ELIMINATE it"

They don`t tell you its fine and dandy to CONTINUE to ALLOW water/moisture to ENTER and then divert it around the inside perimeter...no. 'Eliminate the water'.And inside systems do NOT stop/prevent water from entering exterior cracks,loose-cracked parging as in block and brick walls thus it will not stop/prevent mold/efflorescence etc.

Inside systems also do not remove expanding-contracting SOIL that is against exterior walls,they don`t remove possible ROOTS that also CAUSE cracks in walls,subsequent leaks or sometimes walls to bow inward. Porch footings and concrete slabs against a wall can also cause cracks etc.

RADON gas,other soil gases?
How Radon Enters Your House
http://www.epa.gov/radon/pubs/physic.html#Character

among other entryways, see 'D'. FLOOR-WALL joints

Inside systems drill HOLES in lower courses of hollow-blocks and leave them OPEN, they also leave a GAP OPEN along the FLOOR-WALL joint on poured walls and most block walls, they surely dang do.

Inside system co`s will most often COVER part of most of the inside of basement wall with a type of sheeting, this does NOTHING other than HIDE/CONCEAL the true condition of the basement wall,it hides water/moisture/dampness,it hides crack(s),wall bowing in/further-wall-MOVEMENT,hides mold,efflorescence

hey, if this is the kind of cheap,plastic water-diverting crap some homeowners opt for,fine! But have tried to warn ya`s.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

All due respect to 'some' BUT AAA homie,
checked your websites,you install inside water-diverting system,same as others.
LOOK at a couple PICTURE`s,if you care
http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/AlbumID=216532607/PictureID=4132581960/a=122238283_111847456/t_=122238283

What do you see? And where???
http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/AlbumID=234828863/PictureID=5169799115/a=122238283_111847456/t_=122238283

What do you see,and where?

Can post thousands over 30 years.

One point is, ANY inside system does NOT stop/prevent FURTHER water from entering these exterior cracks,loose-cracked parging etc, if you don`t stop/prevent water you`ll NEVER stop/prevent mold `n efflorescence and, radon gas also enters basements through these,hello?

Another POINT is,first picture,inside systems do NOT REMOVE EXTERIOR weights/pressures that CAUSE many dang cracks and subsequent leaks,mold etc....knock knock?

Inside systems/companies do not,never have and never will REMOVE expanding/contracting SOIL or roots or possibly, concrete slab(s) and porch footings which CAUSE cracks,leaks,sometimes cause a wall to bow inward.

If you/others don`t remove these CAUSE(s) then the stupid wall,cracks can only get worse.....widen.

You people think it OK to LEAVE exterior cracks OPEN???
Misrepresenting the true CONDITION of the basement wall, of why/where the WATER is FIRST-ENTERING is incompetent,negligent and w/MANY inside system owners/salespeople......FRAUD.

Talking homeowners into an inside system that does NOT repair/waterproof EXISTING cracks,existing DEFECTS-flaws, does not stop water from where its entering,doesn`t stop mold/efflorescence DUE TO the water entering THROUGH these exterior openings....for self gain,is fraud.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

Some have a clog,a blockage between the house and street.
Do inside system salespeople/owners explain to homeowners this may/might be their only problem? Nope.

http://www.msdgc.org/downloads/wib/common_causes_wet_basement.pdf

Page 2. Fixing the Problem
'Fixing your wet basement MAY be as easy as rodding your lateral line..'

Page 4. Broken or Clogged Lateral Lines
Sewer Line Backups
Other times/possibilities as to why there is an excessive amount of water under the floor can from a problem with an existing sump pump,a possible need for an adjustment or may need a new pump.

Or, some homeowners will only need to drill/create some holes in the sump PIT, in the sidewall to allow water that is under floor to get INTO the PIT faster rather than,accumulating and then then rising up through a floor crack or other opening in floor.NO need for any inside system here.FIND the problem(S),correctly repair them.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

WOW this was pretty helpful!
When I was reading this I was like man I wish that guy lived in Michigan (refering too licwaterproofer) and he does YAY! I hope the number you put on here in 06 is still valid because I am going to try to get in touch with you today! You seem very knowledgable, and honest, and that goes a long way in my book :O)
Great information in here Thank you!


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

Have had some leaks thru vertical cracks in basement foundation wall. Cracks less than 1/16"-1/8" wide. They are pretty minor but I do have use the wet/dry vac when it rains hard or when ground is still frozen from winter. Waterproofing companies suggest filling crack with epoxy or with urethane. Any thoughts on which is better? I am confused after reading their promotional materials. They both make a good case for their products.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

Our experience has seen about 50% of ALL injections of poured wall cracks do not last,RE-LEAK. Exterior cracks,loose-cracked pagring etc in 'Block/brick walls' won`t be of any use.

Lets see what U S Army Corps of eng`s says.....

http://www.wes.army.mil/REMR/pdf/cs/mr-3-9.pdf


Applications and LIMITATIONS.....
THEY say..."Epoxy injection has been successfully used in
the repair of cracks in buildings,bridges,dams.....
HOWEVER, unless the crack is DORMANT(or the CAUSE of-the-cracking is REMOVED,thereby making the crack dormant),
it will probably RECUR,possibly somewhere else in the structure...."


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

licwaterproofer, Is there something wrong with your shift key? The random capitalization of words detracts from your message. Perhaps if you could put a complete sentence together you could get your point across. At this point I would seriously wonder if you could even finish one waterproofing job. (At least according to how your whacked-out posts look.)


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

Licwaterproofer-
i have been reading your posts which i have found very helpful and was wondering if i could ask a few questions-
we just bought a house ( undisclosed mold/water issues)...it seems that the mold is limited to one wall with a water stain at the bottom...we do not see it on any other wall...the issue we have is that the home is 80-100 yrs. old with a stone foundation...I have been doing a lot of research and agree with you that external waterproofing is the way to go...however, I have read that excavating around an old stone foundation is a very very bad idea. Apparently it upsets the compacted soil that has been there for decades and can undermine the foundation causing way larger problems...so I dont think that is an option for us. What I did find is that using Sodium Bentonite/ Bentogrout injection..which doesnt require excavation...may be our best option...what do you think of this? i saw your comment on injection techniques but what other options do we have with this kind of foundation? Can you recommend an honest/not crazy expensive company in the NJ area?
Thank you!


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

We had a drainage system installed in our house about 8 years ago and still we have no water. They installed a french drain system. They jackhammered all around the perimeter and used a 4inch perforated pipe for the drainage. The whole process was very simple and not dusty at all. They brought in these air filtering machines and cleaned up very well. The name of the company was Murray Construction and they are located in Netcong NJ 07857 (I believe)and the phone number there is 973-527-7130. I would highly reccomend these guys! I know the cover all of NJ and most of PA. No lies no high pressure sales and the best warranty out of anyone we had out here


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

Here is a tip for patching and sealing where the floor meets the wall. While many use Hydraulic cement on this area I find that these patches are brittle and tend to crack. I use Hydroseal 75 epoxy coating and mix concrete sand mix into it at a ratio of 3 to 1 or 4 to 1(4 parts sand mix to 1 part Hydroseal) By adding the hydroseal to the patching mortar you get a better patch that is more waterproof and lasts longer than hydraulic cement. After patching I apply 2 coats of Hydroseal 75 over basement walls and I come out a foot or so on the floor so I have a seamless tranission from the floor to the wall.
Note: the Hydroseal 75 is odorless,easy to mix and is applied like paint with rollers and brushes.

Hydraulic cement is great for stopping running water but if there is no running water I use the hydroseal 75 with sand mix for patching where the floor meets the wall, crack in the foundation and snap tie holes. Then 2 coats of hydroseal 75 painted on the walls and floor perimeter.


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RE: Waterproofing a basement

I have had the same problem and I went to waterproof.com and their system really works for block basements.


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