lynxville, the 346 can be bought for about $250-$270 at most dealers. Internet/Ebay purchases have them averaging $175-$200. The main reason I replaced my older saws with Echo is 1 brand reputation and servicing dealers in my area(if need be,quick parts), 2 the size and profile is smaller and lighter than compared to Stihl and Husky which are also good products. I'm not a pro or make a living with my tools, just like dependable tools that lasts. I also enjoy keeping my equipment running and looking like new! Been a hobby for many years.

The little Echos are great saws in their intended role. If you are looking for one and don't plan to buy from a saw dealer, save yourself some money and buy it off eBay. The CS346 goes for $160-180 NIB. Since you won't be able to get service or parts from HomeDepot anyway, there's no disadvantage in buying online.

Despite the remarks of another member, you CAN have too much saw. Different saws exist for different purposes. If your purposes will be properly served by a small Echo, then you need a small Echo. If you need a pro-grade 50cc-class saw, then buy a Husqvarna 346 or 353, Stihl 260Pro, or Dolmar 5100s, because the little Echo would not be a good stand-in for a 50cc saw. It's all about having the right tool for the job.

If you do buy the Echo, here are a couple tips -

First, you will want to get a couple extra loops of chain along with the protective gear that you'll need. Head over to your Stihl dealer for those goods. The Stihl PM chain is a superior chain choice to the Oregon 91-series that the Echo comes with. Notice I said PM, not the PM1! It lacks the anti-kickback saftey bump-links, which leaves more room for the chip to be evacuated from the cut. 25% increase in cutting speed compared to PM1, in my experience. It also has superior chrome on the cutter, which means that you will get much more mileage between sharpenings. Oregon also sells non-safety chain in the 91-series, but I've been happier with Stihl or WoodsmanPro (rebadged Carlton from Bailey's).

Second, if you are comfortable working on saws and tuning them correctly, you can pick up an easy 20% power increase by opening up the muffler. Just removing the spark arrester screen (assuming you're not cutting on BLM lands, where doing so would be forbidden) will get you a noticeable increase. But if you do that, then open up the muffler outlet a bit more, and possibly open up the basket inside the muffler, your little Echo will act like a totally different saw. It will run cooler, last longer, and will be more powerful. Make sure you richen up the carb to accomodate the increased airflow, or you will promptly burn your saw up.

Third, if the saw has the INTENZ bar with the in-bar tensioner, you will probably get annoyed by this "feature" in due course. A quick trip to the saw shop (or Bailey's, if you shop online or by phone) will allow you to put a standard bar (Oregon Pro91 has been my preferred version) and a conventional on-saw screw tensioner. The tensioner assembly is a $7.00/7minute swap.

How do the 91VG series Oregon chains compare to the Stihl PM3 chains?

Computeruser A Echo CS510 49.6cc CUTS, keeps right up with my brothers Husky 346 and outcuts his 026. Otherwise that was a good post you did. One more thing most new Echo's are adjusted to lean when you get them, need to cut the tabs off the adjusting screws right away. Olny 1 out of five I didn't have to.

Ladylake, if you have personal experience with an Echo 510 and a Husqvarna 346 side by side, then I retract my statement about the 510 early in this thread. I was repeating what I have read, not speaking from personal experience.

Computeruser, I totally agree with you on buying Stihl chains. It's amazing how much better my Shindaiwa 488 cuts with a Stihl non-safety chain than with the standard Oregon chain. I bought two Stihl chains and rotate them for most of my cutting. I save the original equipment chain for dirty work, like cutting stumps off low to the ground.

ladylake, I have found the same problem with Echo, too lean out of the box and not enough adjustment available but other brands have the same problem courtesy the pollution police. I played with the carb on a CS360T , read ground off the limiter tabs, and really woke it up. I did not touch the muffler, neither the customer or my boss would have appreciated it.

I bought the Echo cs 346, according to the owners manual you are supposed to run it 2 hours before carb adjustment. It doesn't run at top speed and will not idle without a little throtle or it stalls. I looked at the carb adjustment screws and it looks like I need a special tool to adjust them. I noticed the little red plastic stops, how do you grind them off if I need to?

Thanks
Lynx

Some of you guys with your ringing endorsements of the Echo saws make me laugh. Look at what brands 99% of the pros use, is Echo one of them? I`m not talking about lawn guys either because frankly how many of them are tree pros? I don`t know any guys who could really be considered full time pros who still use Echos now that Stihl and Husky have lighter and more ergonomic lower priced tophandles.

Sure, Echo is a step up from Poulan and Craftsman but given that Echo has been on the American market for over 30 years it`s not like they are a new, as yet under marketed pro quality saw. Sure Echo has a pretty good cutting saw in the 510 but it is not the superior saw or even the equivalent when compared to the 346xp or ms260. I know first hand because I`ve had two guys who really thought they were bring them to me for comparison. We tweaked and tuned them, one guy even opened up his muffler and retuned the carb again. Close but no cigar, and the lack of modern anti vibe, air filtration, operator controls ergonomics, and I also believe that the 510 lacks side chain adjusting and you can get a feel for why the Echo is a cheaper saw even when you consider the strength of the Yen compared to the US dollar.

You get what you pay for. If all you need is an occasional or moderate use saw, then the Echo will be fine, but certainly no better than Husky or Stihl`s consumer grade saws and it will be lacking in features.

Another point for consideration is that you might not need to use your saw for 4 hrs at a time if it cut faster. It`s distinctly possible that a slightly heavier saw with more power could cut your usage time in half.

If those 510 echo's didn't have side chain adjusting must be the old 510ev built in the 80's.. You won't find many people who own modern Echo's that don't like the power, handling. wieght or smooth running. Steve

Hey computeruser, I realize this is your fishbowl and I`m not here to usurp your position as saw guru but I will counter your last post point by point so that this time around you might see that I have already stated in agreement with you on a few points and on a few other points I`m going to challenge you to back up your claims.

Let`s start here: Posted by computeruser on 12/26/06@21:13

"Laughing? Why? This is Gardenweb, not arboristsite or forestryforum. And it certainly isn't hotsaws. Consider the target audience - homeowners, landowners, part-time and occasional saw users. For this audience there is no reason to need to buy magnesium-cased pro saws. Most folks who come here can easily meet their needs with homeowner- to mid-grade saws.

"There is more to it than "what the pros use" being the measure of quality and performance. Echo is not at the front of the pack in terms of product development, but their products are durable, reliable, and up to the task of regular use. Their design philosophy is different from many of their competitors, and if your needs happen to match their design philosophy then theirs is the saw for you. For most homeowners, personal firewood cutters, and ranch owners, there is an Echo saw out there that will meet their needs perfectly."

My statement posted on 12/26/06@12:37

"Sure Echo has a pretty good cutting saw in the 510 but it is not the superior saw or even the equivalent when compared to the 346xp or ms260."(In response to LadyLake)

and.....

"You get what you pay for. If all you need is an occasional or moderate use saw, then the Echo will be fine, but certainly no better than Husky or Stihl`s consumer grade saws and it will be lacking in features."

My last statement speaks to your allusion to Echo`s different "design philosophy" in that they lack features common to todays best saws as well as stating that Echo saws are appropriate for moderate use.

computeruser on 12/26/06@21:13

"Another point: your comaprison between the 510/520 Echo and the MS260/H346 is misplaced"

I already adressed this statement, LadyLake originally made this comparison, not me, but I`m not so sure that there is anything to talk about even when compared to the consumer Stihls and Huskies because the Echo lacks many now standard features, you know, the "design philosophy" thing.

computeruser on 12/26/06@21:13

"Dolmar presents another interesting situation that runs counter to your "what the pros use" benchmark for quality. They aren't what most pros use, but many of their products are equal if not superior to the competiting products from Stihl and Husqvarna/Jonsered. And Dolmar has been around, and in the US market, forever. For most pros, it is the lack of stocking dealers for Dolmar products that prevents wider adoption. Performance and durability are not the limiting factors."

No, Dolmar does not yet have a real widespread pro fan base but that is changing daily, so it is a matter, once again, of what the pros use. I don`t see any evidence of a mass migration of pros moving toward Echo, infact I know that many climbers who formerly used Echos now use something else. This I know firsthand.

Computeruser 12/26/06@21:13

"For example, Dolmar's 5100s blows the MS260Pro out of the water and gives the MS361 a run for its money, and at a lower cost than either of those saws."

Saying that the 5100 blows anything out of the water is a pretty strong statement but it is essentially true about it`s performance compared to the ms260 when both are stock. You are talking out your behind when you compare it to the 361, where did you read this? The fact that you made that statement proves to me that you have neither a 5100 or a 361 to compare it to. I own a few 346s, several 260s, two 361s and did own two 5100s. Got rid of the 5100s(modified) because I didn`t see where they did anything any better than any of my modified 346s or 260s and I don`t like the switch or the feel of the rear handle. I do however feel that they are a fine saw, but yet to be proven for durability.

"Same when compared to Husqvarna's 346/353 and 357. The 5100s' air filtration, anti-vibe, and ease of servicing are superb" More bunk.....and a little conjecture thrown in for good measure, eh? The 5100 is stronger than either the 346 or 353 when stock, but it also cost more. Wasn`t that a point you made in favor of the 5100 when compared to the Stihls? The 5100 does not hold a candle to the 357xp OR the 359, which I also happen to own both of. The 5100 is a strong 3 cube saw, not some sort of engineering miracle. BTW, are you implying that the Dolmar`s air filtration, anti-vibe, etc is any better than the Husky`s? Ummm...what do you have to compare it to?

computeruser on 12/26/06@21:13

"Likewise, Dolmar's 7900 also beats its competitors, outrunning Stihl's MS460 and Husqvarna's 372/385/575, all while weighing less than any of these saws, costing less, and having superior anti-vibration and air filtration."

You don`t say? But have you really tried any of this to see if it`s true? I will agree that the 7900 has a slight performance edge over a stock 372, which btw is 9 cc smaller, and a stock 460, but it will not run with a 385, albeit it is very close. Modifiy them all and it`s a game of operator skill and yes, I have all of these saws too. My 460 will eat the 7900 for breakfast and has eaten many 7900s built by various individuals. Keep in mind that my 460 is not a full on race saw either, simply woods modified. The added displacement, which puts the 385 in a different class, will mush the 460 when modified.

The 575, which I also have, is better left un-spoken of, lol. Nothing spectacular about this saw beyond it`s smoothness and fuel efficiency.

computeruser 12/26/06@21:13

"I've run the 7900 in.......... and racing, and set up with identical off-the-roll chains it walks all over the saws I listed."

I`d like to know where you race. I have hosted several races and attended many others and inexplicably the 7900 has not dominated as it must where you are. But wasn`t this thread about how Echo saws compare to the Big Two? I can see Dolmar making inroads into what has been Stihl`s and Husky`s market but truth be told, the only two saws that Dolmar currently makes that are anything special are the 5100s and the 7900. The 6300 and 7100, being based on the 7900 chassis are too heavy for the performance they offer and although Dolmar is now marketing a new tophandle, the jury is still out on it`s performance or durability.

Didn't know we were talking about modifiyed saws. Steve

"Didn't know we were talking about modifiyed saws. Steve"
You`re right LadyLake, we weren`t, but then I didn`t know that we were talking about Dolmars either.

I just threw in the stuff about the modded saws because I wanted to give as complete a picture as I could when I saw that computeruser was referring to racing saws. I assume that if he is racing for anything but a beer that he must be running a modified saw of some sort and I also figured that if you have a 510 that can outcut a 346xp it must be modified in some way because from what I have seen it`s not even a race otherwise. The mufflers on the 510s are way too stiffling. Not that most people even care about racing saws, but then noone wants to have a slow, or underpowered saw either. I assume that people want saws that pound for pound compare favorably to the competition.

BTW Steve, I had a few Echos built in the 80s, in the early 80s, and the 50cc model was the 500EV which compared quite favorably to the Stihl 031 which was very popular at the time. 12.5 pounds, it revved decently and had good torque. It had no chain brake but otherwise was on par technologically with the other good saws on the market. Then Echo went through a reorganization, their saws became gray and atleast a third cheaper, and they never visibly advanced beyond the early eighties features or design. Echo has their niche, a good quality saw for a fair price, I just don`t accept that they compete with comparable displacement Huskies, Stihls, Jonsereds when you compare features and performance. For example, I have "white fingers" from years of saw operation and I cannot run one of the Echo tophandles for more than a few minutes before I am in danger of dropping it. If in this day and age now that we know better and have other choices, if you still feel the Echo is satisfactory, more power to you. However if someone asks how Echos compare to other modern choices I`m going to feel compelled to throw in my two cents. Buying any cheap power tool is false economy, especially if it can have potential health effects.

This sounds like the same old Ford versus Chevy flame. First off I have been cutting firewood for over 30 years. I am not an arborist or in the business. I have 3 chain saws and one is a new Husky 355, which is plenty big for felling trees, but to heavy to buck and trim with 4 hours at a time. There is no reason to use a larger saw for this purpose. I cut 50 to 70 foot trees and there's lots of smaller twigs to cut off.

The Echo 346 weighs 7.5 pounds without bar and chain, so where do some people get it's heavy? I am not saying it's a professional saw and could care less what the pros use.

What I really wanted to know is how to cut off the tabs on the carb, they are flush with the carb, and is there a special tool to adjust the carb?

I will do a lot of cutting with this saw and have had a number of other saws over the years so I will write an honest opinion of the 346. If it's a dog I'll say so, but I won't pretend just because I bought it it's the best.

I use wood to heat all winter, so it will get plenty of use. So if it has a weak link I'll find it. As far as vibration is concerned it seemed very smooth to me, no worse or better than my Husky.

I can say that the chain and bar that came with it look like a toy, but I new that before I bought it.

Here is a nice video link comparing cutting speed of the 5100, then 361 and 460.

http://s92.photobucket.com/albums/l15/THALL10326/?action=view&current=5441.flv&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1

The link does a pretty good job of showing how well the 5100 almost cuts up there with the 361.

Certainly both running a 20" bar buried would be a different story, but given the circumstances of the video, the 5100 shows it to be nearly as fast as the 361 and perhaps worthy of the title "fastest stock 50cc saw available".

BTW, when shopping for my Christmas saw, I bought the 361 over the 5100 or any other saw in the 50-60cc range.

Hey bytehoven,

I`d like to give you a good reply regarding the video(that I can`t see) right now but I have an appointment with my parole officer, er, ahh, I mean to get my hair cut!

ttyl

So Roland, you getting the information you were looking for? This thread is just about getting to the place where some of us are popping up a batch of popcorn so we can relax and follow the action.

I had a Husqvarna 55 and when it was time to replace it, I wanted something a little lighter. I was thinking about moving up to a Husqvarna 346XP, but ended up buying a Shindaiwa 488, which about split the difference in price.

No regrets on the Shindaiwa. Lighter and easier starting than my Husqvarna, and pulls an 18" bar about as well as my 55 did a 16" bar.

I don't give a rip "what 99% of the pros use." Any saw sold by Stihl or Husqvarna for under $400 has lots of competition, and the main reason I would recommend Stihl or Husqvarna is because they have more full-service dealers than the otherwise excellent alternatives.

Let's try that again.

http://s92.photobucket.com/albums/l15/THALL10326/?action=view&current=5441.flv&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1

Yep, try that link barbedwire. It's got some nice Elvis music happin' as well. :)

Hey, just popping in to check the progress of this thread before heading to the Great White North for some business and pleasure today. Thanks for reposting the link bytehoven, I`ll watch it when I get back, but I can make an ms180 look comparable to the 5100 in small or soft wood, know what I mean? I think you do, and that`s why you bought a 361 instead of a 5100.

BTW montessa, I don`t enirely agree with your assessment that the 488 is comparable in power to it`s Stihl or Husky counterpart but it isn`t far off and I do regard them as being nearly bulletproof. I have two of them, bought `em for a swedish cope cabin project that I have planned. They should be able to stand up to the sweeping that kills alot of lesser saws although I did outfit one of them with the fully adjsutable carb. See, I don`t suffer from Japohobia, I`m just not tremendously impressed with the tiny Echos.

Redmax is also making a very good product and they can be bought very competitively. I think the 60cc model is the 621 and surprisingly a stock one did cut almost neck and neck with a new 361 that we tested against. It was fairly smooth as well.

Another thing, the chain comparison. The Oregon that came standard on my 488s was 33sl which is darn near impossible to make cut real well because of it being semi chisel with some rather large bumper links. To categorically say that Stihl chain cuts better than Oregon based solely on a comparison between SL chain and Stihl PM is either being deliberately blissfully ignorant or displaying an agenda. This is a comparison of apples to "road apples". Yes Stihl chain typically has thicker chrome than a similar style Oregon or Carlton chain which will make it stay "sharp" longer, but they are also typically much more expensive and harder on files, so what is a better chain deal? Another thing regarding Carlton(Woodsman Pro) vs Oregon. Carlton chain seems to lack a crisp working corner on the chisel chain. This indisputably results in SLOWER cutting than any chain with a crisp working corner. Sure, someone will say that "Hatchet Jack(Mr. 500 Honda) uses Carlton for racing chain because I`ve seen his Carlton Banner" or something to that effect, but first to think that his finished chain looks or works anything like stock chain is naive and second, he gets his chain FREE from Carlton in un-assembled components that he can then modifiy to his hearts content without having to break the chain down first. The other Northern California guy who is known for building consistently faster chain uses Oregon chain. I know this because both of those guys and I have spent a fair amount of time discussing chain and swapping pictures and I have run both of their chains. Yeah, apples to oranges when talking about work chain to race chain, but that is my point in even coming to this forum. Too many parrots go to the other forum and read and subsequently take out of context what they have read then come to forums such as this and repeat it as gospel.

I also support Butch, Fish, and canguy for being pretty knowledgable, but calling them oracles? HAHAHAHA!!!

Walt posts here? Walt Galer?

That's interesting. Shellbark's post and my response to it are gone, so barbwire's response doesn't have any context. I guess maybe there is a monitor on this board.

Barbedwire: My Stihl dealer sold me the 361 with 20" bar and RSC chain for $539 cash, and sold me a case and 2 20" RSC loops for another $45. That was/is a very solid deal from a Stihl dealer.

The Dolmar dealer, on the other hand, was not willing budge from the $409 MSRP price on the 5100, nor wood he extend any discounts on accessories. I even gave him a 2nd chance to deal once I knew I had the $361 deal in the wings, but still "no joy".

Had the Dolmar dealer been willing to negotiate like my Stihl guy, things might have been different.

Granted I was still paying quite a bit more for the 361 no matter how I slice it, but to me it was more a matter of principle.

In the end, I know I ended up with a saw I might be able to pass on to my 6 year old son. :)

Hi bytehoven,

I can`t get this link to work either, can anyone else?

I get the jist of what is being portrayed however and I read Tom`s assessment of the saws. You nailed it though, if the saws were cutting bigger wood the 361 would be clearly stronger and faster. That being said, it`s moot to say that the 5100 cuts nearly with a 361 unless both saws are cutting from the same log that is near the maximum capacity of the larger saw in this comparison. If I said that the 5100 has a free speed of 14,500 rpm and the 361 has a free speed of 13,500 rpm, does this make the 5100 the faster cutting saw under real world conditions? Of course not. Of course I`m not so much replying to you on this matter either bytehoven because it seems to me that you understand this otherwise you would not have spent an extra $134 to purchase the 361, principle or not.

The bottom line is that both of these saws are fine examples of the best that is available today, but that doesn`t make them equals, or even peers. I have to admit that also like the feel of a Stihl in hand better than a Dolmar, which is ironic because I outright prefer the Husky to any others and the Dolmar is more closely balanced and spaced like a Husky from the way they feel, I just don`t care much for the shape of the rear handle on the Dolmars and I really don`t like the way that the front handle attaches to the 5100. Take a good look at one sometime. The way the handle appears to enter a plastic socket molded into the saw body looks cheap and flimsy, especially since on every 5100 that I have seen, this socket seems poorly formed and both halves don`t mate properly. Yes I know that this is a minor detail, and more than likely purely asthetic, but if that is their standard "fit and finish" in areas that I can readily see, what is on the inside? The balance on the Dolmar also makes it feel noticeably heavier than a 260, I compared them side by side yesterday, and since the 5100 is more a peer of the 260 than the 361 I feel that this is a more relevant comparison than one made to the 361. Apples to apples right?

Barbed...

You just need to cut & paste the link info in a new window and it should load the youtube video. I tried it again to be sure, and it's working for me.

I think the popularity of the 5100S comes into play for the (3) saw scenario, where you would have a nice lite 192T/200T/3400 or other similar climbing saw, something in the 50cc range, and then a big dog in the 80cc range. In this (3) saw scenario, the 5100S has been looked upon as a really strong limbing saw, as well as a climbing saw in a pinch or when larger limbs are rigged. Certainly the 361 also fits this (3) scenario with just a tad more weight, higher cost and better power.

Because I'm not in the "biz", I was looking for an all around saw to go with my lite weight 192T. Something I could use in almost any situation I would not be calling a professional, and something that will be running long after we have forgotten about this conversation. :)

I too was looking at the various Husky options, but I just have very poor Husky support in my neck of the woods. So, the decision was easily narrowed down to my very friendly Stihl dealer who has great service, runs a big/busy shop and gave me a price break ta boot.

With the 361 & 20" bar, I haven't needed a splitter as I recently quartered a bunch of trunk and larger limb sections faster than I could ever split them.

Anyway... If one was limiting their saw purchase to $400 max, the 5100S is at the top of the short list of many folks.

One thing I have not seen anyone comment on, is the real world MTF of the Dolmar saw engines. Are they a 1200 hours saw like the pro-Stihl engines?

Hi bytehoven,

I didn`t mean to imply that I outright prefer Husky saws to all others in fact I have many Stihls, including the new 660 that I bought this afternoon.>

I love the 361 and prefer it to the 359 or 357xp, both of which I also have so my point is that I am very familiar with those models. I think that Stihl did a fantastic job when they developed the 361 and I hope that the rumored 261 is equally as well developed. Although the 346 and 5100 are stronger saw, I have a fondness for the 026/260 and they feel very good in my hands.

I agree that the 5100 is a great saw, I just balk when someone tries to tell me that it will cut with a 361, it won`t and I know it first hand.

The pro Dolmars are just as well made as pro Stihls, Huskies, and Johnnys. Life expectancy is comparable.

SOMEONE EXPLAIN HOW TO TRIM THOSE LIMMITER SCREW TABS OFF THE CARB:::I HAVE THE CS360T SAW:::
APPRECIATE IT!!

give the echos a chance i took a cs 400 gutted the muffler retuned and added a 16" bar it will outcut my 290 stihl by far twice as fast with sharp chains

I've found the same thing, my muff modded CS400 40cc cuts just as fast as my 56cc 3.8 hp 029 Stihl both with good sharp chains I wouldn't believe it if I didn't see it. The CS400 has a narrow kerf chain which helps some. The CS400 wieghs 13# and the 029 wieghs 17-3/4# ready to cut on a good scale. Echo did thier homework on this saw. Steve

Echo may have done their homework with the CS400 but without all sorts of complicated math to prove it, common sense still proves to most of us that if all conditions are identical, as in same piece of wood on the same day, running the same chain or somehow proven to be equally sharp chains, in the hands of the same operator, both saws tuned by the same person etc......that there is no way that a 40cc saw is going to be able to cut as fast as a 60cc saw, even a pig like the 029.

If both saws are operated to keep them at max effective rpm in the cut, that is fully loaded and not bogged, and assuming a peak power produced at 9k rpms, because that is where most saw manufacturers design their engines to run fully loaded, the best that one could hope for is that the heats would be dead even, but for the sake of comparison you cannot cut a piece of wood that is the maximum diameter which the small saw will handle without bogging, no, you must cut the maximum diameter that the larger saw will handle, otherwise it is not a test.

I won't argue that many people aren't more productive with a lighter weight saw, because many people can work significantly longer with a lighter saw. That is the only way that a lighter and smaller saw has a production edge against a larger, more powerful saw unless all the cutting is done in small wood. I have built MS260s, 346xps, and had the infamous 5100s that only get used in small wood because that's what they were made for, simple as that.

Lo Pro and extremely narrow kerf chain is just a crutch to keep small saws in their powerband but very simple math proves that when the chip thickness is thinner, it will take longer to cut through a given thickness of wood than a chain producing thicker chips at max rpm.

Barbed . When i tested my CS400 against my Stihl 029 it was in a 14 x 20" square off the sawmill, I wouldn't call that a little chunk of wood by any means. That little 40cc 13# Echo has made a believer out of me. I also ran my Rancher 55 which both saws beat easy. My 029 is one of the best cutting 029 or 290 saw I've run and all 3 saws had a sharp chain. Looks like the poster above me had the same results, believe what you or don't want but I know how that little saw cuts. Steve

Barbed, one more thing, have you run a muff modded CS400? Steve

No Steve, I haven't. You're still not going to convince me that you two, or maybe the half dozen Echo fanatics around, have discovered some rare gem of a saw that defies the laws of internal combustion.

What percentage of exhaust port opening did you give your cs400? Round hole(s), square, or rectangle? Straight out the front or out the side? Screen? What mesh? What chain? I'll duplicate it as soon as I get the new saw delivered.....I want to own a 40cc saw that kicks butt in a 14"x20" cant.

No idea what %, 3 round 5/16 holes outn the front with a deflector, got rid of the cat, no screen . Running 91 picco . Stock these saws are just average, with that muff modd cut times went from 15 second to 8-1/2 on the same piece of wood. Steve

I was just looking at IPLs for the modern Echo saws and noted that until you get up to the cs-680, the saws use a single ring piston. I'm not saying that single ring is good or bad but I've seen where alot of Echo fanatics(Stihl too) proclaim a mechanical superiority because their brand runs twin rings. Just something else that many guys have been hanging their hats on that isn't true.

Echo just switched to single ring pistons on quite a few of thier models lately, most older ones had 2 rings. Husky has a lot of model with single rings for quite a few years and I don't think it's anything to get excited about one way or another. 150hp snowmobile engines use single rings. Steve

Single (L-Ring) Piston Design has been utilized for years within High Performance Snowmobile Racing where less frictional loss (heat) was required within High RPM Racing Applications. 1st generation (Wiseco) were quite effective within increased horsepower and lower engine head temperatures . Chromium coatings where utilized to reduce friction and increase life cycle within these single ring racing designs . Molybdenum has also been used successfully along with Ceramic Coatings (Federal Mogul) for friction fighting characteristics but less successfully due to thermal cracking on air-cooled engines. I believe with the new liquid cooled 2 stroke engines Ceramic has found their niche at least within the Sno-Pro and X-Cross Levels. As for Chains Saws the same would apply the cheaper versions would still supply radial cut single ring construction where as Professional Grade (High Performance) Units might well indeed utilized the L-Ring Single Ring Construction for its Superior Performance and Endurance Properties.

If you were able to find everything I've ever posted on the matter of single rings you would clearly see that single ring means absolutely nothing inherently bad or good to me without considering many other factors however I've had many Echo and Stihl fanactics try to beat me over the head with the fact that thier "superior" brand was utilizing two rings while some of the premier examples of my brand for the sake of the discussion, Husky, were only using one ring. I know that many brands including Stihl, Echo, Husky, Jonsered, and I believe Partner also had one ring saws that had absolutely no issues due to their one ring.

I am not aware of any saws running an L shaped ring but I do know of several race saws with one instead of two rings and some exotic piston coatings which are holding up, but holding up in a race saw is a relative term.

Have a few buddies who play and design hot saws and they run Rotax with Dykes L-Rings which are far superior to radial narrow cut single cut rings . I know from Snowmobile Racing experience that the basic chief factor for L-Ring is the better piston to wall sealing and much better heat dissipation around the piston crown than conventional single ring designs. Realizing that all racing applications are for short term duration , life cycle is secondary . Normally engines are torn down every 2nd / 3rd race and fresh pistons and rings are installed. Therefore you can see that the performance gains outweigh the duribility aspects . I suppose with today's advanced metallurgy and syntetic oil technology single ring saws would not pose a problem as realized during earlier snowmobile design usage . I agree with all things considered there is more to consider than simple ring design within a saws merits.

Barb: P.S. Actually No I did not realize that you have previously discussed Piston Ring Technology 101 . Pull up a few of your posts if you can Bro !

ewalk,

I can't say that I am the authority on piston ring technology but I know a little. Back in the old days of this forum there were many posters here who all had something to add, whether experiential, knowledge based, or both combined. Unfortunately all of that collective knowledge which was shared is no longer accessable after Spike banished us to Disneyland and apparently did not allow for those "discussions" to be archived in a searchable manner, I just tried.

I and many others also posted on a few other forums that I don't even visit anymore because of the venomous arguments and deep seated animosities which developed, crazy huh? It's just the internet and we are only talking about chainsaws, but hard feelings still exist and clashes flare up when we all get together so I generally just avoid any revisitation of the old days.

Barb: Yeah I know only too well what you mean lol . I try to limit my Engine Rebuilding conversations to Snowmobile and Motorcycle situations which I more familiar , although there are some similar situations within saws and gas trimmers . Unfortunate about the Historical Archives , it would have been interesting reading . Thanxs for your efforts .

Never buy echo chain saw. Warranty is not worth the paper it is written on. Bought new on eBay. Registered the warranty with Echo. 5 year warranty Ha, Ha. Used about 6 times when it stopped. Took it to nearest dealer and was told no warranty unless I bought it from them. Called echo and they said take it to a Signature Repair shop. Took it in and was called back 7 days later. It had piston damaged and no warranty because even though gas in tank showed proper lubrication, it could only be my fault.

tah: That really sucks. Part of the problems with buying via Box Stores. I have had friends who have not had such a bad experience as long as the warranty card had been filled out and mailed to Echo Canada. Seems to be a difference apparently with the US Policy . I can't unsderstand their Dealer issue when normally warranty labour rates are more than time and a half . Paid from the factory to local dealers.

"Part of the problems with buying via Box Stores."...I always consider Home Depot for a purchase if they have something that I'd be interested in buying because they will take almost anything back without much of a hassle within 90 days of purchase. I think a lot of manufacturing defects show up pretty quickly.

Efd: Other than Chainsaws with a 5 yr warranty I would agree . Home Depot within the US has shown disinterest in any warranty work and usually jobs out their repairs as the op has stated . Perhaps the owner was neglectful perhaps not . Normally a Dealer will give the benefit of the doubt and warranty the unit , Box Stores seem to be a little more reluctant . I do by various wood products and tools from Home Depot locally without incident , they have excellent products.

This is not the first report I've read about Echo refusing warranty service on siezed chain saws. Supposedly they can tell if a engine was damaged by an improper fuel mixture, but I don't know how, but then I don't know much about 2-stroke engines. It easy to put a long warranty on an item if one doesn't intend to honor it which is why I take all waranties with a grain-of-salt. However, I think Echo products are generally well engineered and well built.

Hi,

I've got an echo 352es, and having trouble finding the chain bar oil flow adjuster.

Nothing in the maintenance manual, nor is google much help

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Instructions on adjusting bar oiler at the address below:
http://www.ehow.com/how_5973304_adjust-oiler-echo-chain-saw.html
1.
o 1
Turn off the Echo chain saw, and release the chain brake by pulling back on the chain brake lever. The chain brake is the plastic bar located on the topside of the body and in between the bar and the throttle. With a gloved hand, spin the chain to ensure the chain brake is off.
o 2
Turn the saw upside down. Look for the adjustable oiler screw. It will be a plus and minus sign with a little dripping oil can next to it.
o
o 3
Twist the adjusting screw clockwise with the screwdriver to decrease oil volume; turn the adjusting screw counterclockwise to increase the oil volume.
o 4
Start the saw again. Depress the throttle and hold the bar's tip about 2 inches away from a clean piece of wood. You should see a light splattering of oil against the wood if the oiler is adjusted properly.
o 5
Adjust the oiler as necessary throughout the job to maintain proper lubrication.

Here is a link that might be useful: Oiler info

FYI, any Echo tool purchased from Ebay is considered used and has no warranty. Same goes for Stihl as well as most other brands that have servicing dealers.

Learn how to tune a saw and you won't need a warranty.