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hydrogrower87

Mower 911! Please help!

Hydrogrower87
10 years ago

Hello, I have just inherited a Simplicity lawn tractor with a Briggs and Stratton 18HP engine - model #422707. I beg forgivingness for what you're about to read, considering I have the mechanical skill of a pencil. But here goes:

When I turn the key, the engine clicks once, just once. The top of the engine turns about 1/4 inch. It seems like it's meeting a lot of resistance.

Here's what I've done: New battery, fresh gasoline, clean oil, took off carb and sprayed some engine start in intake.

I have no idea where to go from here. Remember, pencil!

Very appreciative in advance of your assistance/ideas. Thank you!

Comments (14)

  • rcbe
    10 years ago

    Hydrogrower67 - Best first step is to remove battery - take to qualified shop for a LOAD TEST. Meanwhile, disassemble and clean to bright metal with sandpaper all wiring connection points in the start circuit, including chassis ground points.
    If - with a known good battery and clean connections - the engine behaves as previously described, remove spark plugs and turn engine over by hand while observing for any liquid being expelled from the spark plug holes. If liquid is observed, the engine was hydro-locked - usually from raw fuel coming from a faulty carb. Fixing such usually means a carb teardown - cleaning - rebuild.
    Post back with details if problems continue. Also try to find/advise the full model # off the tractor's ID plate (often located in the cavity under the tilting seat).

  • krnuttle
    10 years ago

    I agree with the rcbe,

    However I would first put the battery on a charger overnight and then try to start the tractor. if that does not work and the the battery is more that three years old I would just replace the battery instead of messing around with trying the other things suggested. While three years seems short, remember they get bounced around for over and hour, every couple of weeks, and have then it sat for a couple of months unused.

    You may consider getting a cheap battery charger. Then in the winter store the battery in the garage or basement,
    . Every couple of weeks place the charger on the battery over night.

  • justalurker
    10 years ago

    @ rcbe and knuttle,

    OP stated NEW BATTERY so let's start at square one...

    OP:

    1 THOROUGHLY clean and tighten connections at BOTH ends of BOTH battery cables.

    2 Make sure the engine mounting bolts are tight.

    3. Make sure the bolts holding the starter to the engine are TIGHT.

    Report back after you've done that.

    OR...

    @ Hydro,

    hydro,

    You inherited a simplicity that you haven't heard run and you admittedly know nothing about L&G repair and have limited mechanical ability, right?

    Since you've accepted that you don't know what you don't know open up the Yellow Pages and see if there's a Simplicity dealer in your area.

    If there is then have them give you an estimate. If there isn't then look for an independent repair shop.

    This post was edited by justalurker on Fri, Jan 24, 14 at 23:50

  • bill_kapaun
    10 years ago

    Brand new batteries can be bad far more often then one would expect.

    Assuming the OP has a spark plug wrench, it only takes a couple minutes to remove the spark plugs and see if the engine cranks.
    POSSIBLY, the carb has leaked through and hydro locked the cylinders.
    GROUND the spark plug wires. You don't want a spark if the cylinders are pumping out a few oz. of gasoline!!!

    A load test on the battery can confirm its condition. Places like Auto Zone etc. will typically do that for free. Or maybe the place you bought it? It's also possible, that it simply needs to be charged??

    Once you have done the above, if you still have problems, check back.

  • tomplum
    10 years ago

    If the rider has sat for a while, it is possible that a drive belt has rusted to a pulley- preventing it from cranking. A unit with an electric PTO wouldn't be a likely candidate for the deck belt causing it , but the traction belt or a manual PTO model very well could. Trying to turn the engine by hand via the screen on top or from below would be a good place to start.

  • Hydrogrower87
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Hello all,

    First of all, thanks to you all for taking the time to suggest your ideas! I really appreciate it!

    Here's where we're at:

    I drained the fuel/oil, and replaced with new. I made sure the battery was completely charged (it is new) and replaced it. I removed the air filter, cleaned, and set aside. I also took off the engine cover, exposing the flywheel. I hit the key, and the flywheel turned about 1/4 turn, then stopped. When I try to move the flywheel by hand, I can. But again, for about 1/4 turn, it turns smoothly. The other 3/4 is difficult to turn.

    Where should I go from here?

    Thanks in advance (again!) for your help!

  • cedgo
    10 years ago

    Crank it without the pugs installed.

  • Hydrogrower87
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Hey cedgo,

    I will try that! If I can ask, what would that do? Why would removing the plugs help? (I know zip about engines, so just tying to learn as much as I can.)

    Thanks!

  • bill_kapaun
    10 years ago

    IF the carb needle/seat has leaked through, it can fill the sump with gasoline, which can rise high enough to hydro lock the cylinders.

    I'd suggest smelling the oil for the presence of gasoline.

    However, you state the engine turns 1/4 turn repeatedly. I doubt it would do that if hydro locked.

  • mownie
    10 years ago

    If you have failed to follow the suggestions made by 2 members (and concurred by a third member) to clean ALL the connections in the starting/cranking circuits, including the ground cables, you really haven't properly addressed the issue.
    After you physically disconnect the battery cables from their attaching places on the engine or frame, the cable terminals and their bolts/nuts must be sandpapered or wire brushed to a bright shiny luster. If the bolts/nuts are corroded or rusted, replace them with new. And this means at all places where a battery cable is used, such as the 2 on the solenoid posts.
    An issue that might be affecting this old opposed twin engine is carbon build up on top of the pistons and the rest of the combustion chamber. Carbon buildup causes an increase in the compression ratio of the engine, which makes it harder for the wimpy starter to spin the engine. The buildup of carbon is a normal occurrence, but can be worsened by an oil consuming condition.
    It is recommended by Briggs to remove the carbon deposits every 100 to 300 hours of service, or whenever the cylinder heads are off for any reason.

    If the engine still does not want to crank/spin properly after you fastidiously clean up the battery cables, carbon build up would be suspect.

    Something else that can cause difficulty in cranking is using a too viscous motor oil for the climate conditions.
    A heavy summer weight oil is often too viscous in winter temperature to allow the engine to spin up.

  • gewf631
    10 years ago

    Hydrogrower87
    There have been a lot of suggestions, from a lot of different perspectives, so let's first start with the inheritance - do you know if/when this last ran?

    cedgo's suggestion, removing the spark plugs, eliminates cylinder compression as a possible cause. This should make the engine MUCH easier to rotate (turn-over), so much so that you should be able to turn it over by hand pretty easily. I doubt if this is the cause, as you mentioned that you could turn-it by hand, just with resistance for the last three-quarters. In all likelihood, that's cylinder compression building-up. This is an easy way to rule-out mechanical issues as preventing the engine from turning..

    If the starter then works, and/or the engine turns freely by hand, the next step would be the electrical wires and connections. A couple questionable ones will introduce enough resistance that your starter can't get all the juice it needs from the battery - much like when you kink a garden hose. That bend restricts the flow of water, and you get a trickle at the end. While cleaning the connectors, check the wires for exposed conductors, or wiggly ends, suggesting the wire has lost it's integrity. A garden hose that breaks down inside will restrict the flow through the hose, or a leaky connector won't let all the water flow through the hose.
    If it still doesn't work after this, try jumping with a car battery - CAR NOT RUNNING. This will introduce extra current, enough that if the battery was bad, things would work as they should. This is a shadetree mechanic's approach to load testing the battery.

    If you get this far, and things still don't work, it might be the starter itself. Or, it might be beyond your "mechanical skill of a pencil", and taking it to a small engine mechanic would be the next step.

  • Hydrogrower87
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thanks again, all! Here's where today's progress has brought me:

    I spent a great deal of time cleaning all battery/electric connections. Put the new battery back in with all the connectors sparkling clean. I removed both the spark plugs and cleaned them up. With the plugs removed, I attempted to crank. Same issue - spinning for about 1/4 turn, then stopping. I moved the flywheel around by hand, still very hard to turn the other 3/4.

    I removed one cylinder head to find some carbon buildup on the top of the piston. But I don't think it looked too terribly awful. The walls of the cylinder look pretty good. I will clean both piston heads. There wasn't just a ton of lubrication in the cylinder, but as mentioned previously, I did add a fresh batch of oil. Is it appropriate to manually lubricate the cylinder?

    gewf361 - thanks for all your info. And yes, while my mechanical skill isn't where I'd like it be, I'm determined to do this myself so I can learn!

  • mownie
    10 years ago

    It is appropriate to manually add some oil to the cylinder while you have the head off for cleaning. But....it will not be absolutely vital for you to do so.
    And as far as manually adding some oil to the cylinders through the spark plug holes regularly, no no no. That is not good for the engine at all.
    Have you tried the jumper cables to a good car battery for a boost?
    With the spark plugs removed from the engine, it should have spun rapidly, provided that the battery and starter are good.
    Since it does not, we can now rule out excessive compression.
    You may want to look underneath the tractor to see if the deck drive belt is trying to turn when the engine moves when trying to crank the engine.
    If the deck drive belt is attempting to rotate, that may be dragging the engine to a halt.

  • bill_kapaun
    10 years ago

    Did this tractor sit for an extended time?
    Just thinking that if the cylinders had rusted up, that could create a lot of friction.
    Maybe a manual application of some oil might be a good idea to see if it frees things up.

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