Just estimating from memory, the 4000 series with power steering is somewhere close to $8K, I think with a mowing deck(?!). The 3000 series is less and not built as large. Last I heard they're hanging on by a thread. Sales has really been falling off the last few years and this latest economic crisis may be the final nail. They're sure built well, but the same basic design since their inception. That's a pile of cash for an air-cooled gas engine powered garden tractor. And, the attachments are way up there too since they're hydraulically driven.

When I page thru my old Sperry-Rand Vickers mobile hydraulics manual, Copyright 1967 (I received it way back in college and it was a new edition!) they show a garden tractor hydraulic drive system. I think this may be the same unit / system since the Case-Ingersoll design has been around at least that long. It reads and I quote:
"A typical garden tractor drive uses a variable displacement inline piston pump with a fixed displacement inline piston motor of the same size in an integral installation." They indicate a 10HP gas engine and go into more detail on the system components and their role in the circuit. I think hydrostatic systems have now replaced hydraulic drive systems in all garden tractors, except for this mfr., for efficiency and control reasons.

Bill

3000 series is no longer in production. Ingersoll is now owned by Eastmen Industries of Maine and operations have been moved from Wisconsin to Maine

Maybe I can clear up some of the mis-information posted in this thread.

Back in 1962, the Johnson brothers began building the very first hydraulic drive garden tractors under the name Colt. As they say, timing in life is everything because it just so happened the J.I. Case was looking around for a line of garden tractors to add to their stable of machinery. The Johnson brothers sold the Colt company to Case in 1964 and Case began producing models in their colours in 1965. Case immediately set about to improve the basic tractor and to make more implements available.

By 1971, the die was cast for one of the best designed tractors to hit the marketplace. The patented HyDrive system of the Johnson brothers is still in use today. Case continued to make minor improvements to a well-proven design. They also continued to swallow up other companies, including International Harvester. Unfortunately, Case ended up with all the IH staff as a result and some bad decisions were made. One of those decisions was to sell off the Outdoor Power Equipment division in Winneconne, Wisconsin....the home of the garden tractor line.

The buyer was John (Jack Ingersoll), a member of the family that owns Ingersoll-Rand but there is ZERO affiliation between the new company founded by John Ingersoll in 1983 and Ingersoll-Rand. Without the famous CASE name on the tractors, sales began to plummet and John sold the company a few years later to the Rothenberger Group in Germany. Further mis-management ensued, and the company floundered until the fall of 2004 when the company went into Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.

By April, 2005, the Eastman Corporation, makers of the famous HoverMower, bought the company and began production again. A year later, Eastman located a suitable factory in Maine that was large enough to house both companies. Each company is separate and distinct but having everything under a single roof was a wise decision.

They set about making improvements to the flagship 4000 series and put the 3000 series on hold, along with the 5000 Grazer Zero Turn series and the 6000 and 7000 series loaders and loader/backhoes. Due to popular demand, the 3000 Lo Pro tractor has been brought back for this coming season and an official announcement will be made shortly. The 6000 is undergoing redesign and a totally new 4400 series has been under development for two years.

The new 4400 will offer an even larger deck than the 60" currently available for the 4200 series. It will also have power steering, limited slip differential and have an optional loader and possibly a backhoe available for it. Gas and diesel engines will be available pushing close to the thirty hp mark.

Neither Colt, Case or Ingersoll every used Vickers-Sperry Rand products. All of the garden tractors used a fixed displacement gear pump and a geroller style drive motor mounted directly to a cast-iron 2 speed trans-axle. Only a few lawn tractors used hydro-static drives in them. Those who have not experienced a Case or Ingersoll tractor have little understanding as to why they are so well loved by their owners. There is a forum dedicated to this brand and has over 3000 members.

The typical reaction made by owners new to this brand is "Boy, these things are built like a tank." There are all kinds of Colts and early Case tractors that are forty plus years old and still blow snow, plow snow, cut grass and till gardens every year. Any similarity between what happened with that swamp buggy and how a 4223 Ingersoll runs and drives is light years apart.

The Eastman company is a long way off of "hanging by a thread". The company is very much alive and well. They're doing just fine, thank you very much and are in this for the long haul. Eastman is moving slowly, carefully and diligently. The QUALITY of components and design that the Case tractors were famous for has, if anything, improved and not diminished. The Ingersoll of today still uses structural steel frame rails with check plate floorboards, cast iron front and rear axles and the hood, fenders and other components are all steel.

The use of plastic is kept to an absolute minimum unlike so many of the machines being made today. Vanguards are the engine of choice. The beauty of these tractors also lies in their simplicity of design which makes them easy to work on by the average Joe. Parts availability is not a problem. People have no trouble in conducting a ground-up restoration on a 1965 180 or 130.

If you get an opportunity to see a new Ingy up close or better yet, to operate one, don't pass it up. It will amaze you.

As for the notion that all the implements are hydraulically driven, that too is a misconception. While Ingersoll did release the All Hydraulic Drive (AHD) tractors in both the high-wheel 4100 series and the Lo Pro 3100 series in the early 90's, that only happened for two years. All the other tractors have belt driven mower decks and belt driven single stage snow throwers.

However, due to the open-center hydraulic system that produces up to 10 gpm of flow, numerous hydraulic attachments have been engineered for use on these tractors such as a three-point mounted finishing mower, a 4 ft Bush Hog type mower, a log splitter that splits both ways, a vacuum that literally sucks the clippings and leaves out of the deck and spits them into either a triple bagger or a tow-behind trailer.

At one time they had a self-powered 60" wing mower and a chipper/shredder that was a joint design by Ingersoll and McKissic. The quality of Case and Ingersoll attachments is legendary.

Click on the link below and check out their website for yourself.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ingersoll

Nice to see that Eastmen is going to bring Back the 3000 series back into production. One of my garden tractors is a Ingersoll 3016PS. But it was nice of Eastmen to update the Ingersoll a little since they took it over with drive pedals instead of a lever. I only Use my 3016 for 3point work and Mowing every so often. Ingersoll is one of the best GT's on the market.

I wish them well, I really do, but I fear the worst. Same business plan as the WH Classic series, incremental changes on a mostly steel/cast iron unit with a resultant high price. And now I believe they're gone too, or almost.

The Ingersoll's are cool looking and I wouldn't mind having one myself. Looking on ebay, they don't seem to hold their resale value very well, and that's including pricey hydraulic driven attachments like the vac collection system and tiller. And apparently from the linked factory site you gave, Vanguards will no longer be the engine of choice, going instead with Kohlers for the new series.

From what I've read on the "other" garden tractor forum by Colt-Case-Ingersoll members, the few dealers that actually had a new one on their showroom floor the last couple years were not moving them off that same floor. And as I remember, the factory rep that they had had such a good relationship with finally left the company. But really, when you're faced with 8 to 10 large to buy a new one with power steering, LSD and a belt-driven deck, would you really not expect to get more for your money, like say 4WD, diesel engine and std. 3-pt. hitch that can use any Class 1 attachments from any mfr? One with a stable dealer network and parts/service availability? And I understand the owner love part too. I own a '74 British bike, a Norton. Remember what happened to the all-powerful British motorcycle industry when they stopped innovating and improving design, and then Honda came on the scene? It's almost the same sad story. And let's not even talk about the US auto industry.

I realize this post could be considered an attempt at a buzz-kill on your glowing report kompressor, but I get a tinge of anger when I see a company produce a piece of equipment that's clearly out of step (read "obsolete") with the latest products available and then attaches an unreasonably high asking price to it. As always, the market will decide their fate, and I could be (and hope that I am) wrong.

As far as I know, Toro is still making the WH Classic and will likely continue to do so as long as there is enough of a market out there for it.

As for holding their value, back in the early to mid 90's, a 4020 was selling for around $6000.00. The dealers apparently have no problems getting $2500.00 for one in decent condition today. I think that's pretty good for something that was made 13 years back. I don't know of any car out there that can be sold 13 years later for a little under half its original purchase price, do you?

And if you bought a Craftsman, Murray or box store Cub in the $2000.00 and under class, what would it bring 13 years later? Maybe 10 to 15 cents on the dollar? How much life would still be in one of those machines? Would you be willing to spend $400.00 to $500.00 to put a new hydro in it?

As for implements, those are often the things that see the most severe duty and when you are hundreds of miles away, why would you bid high? Shipping costs alone are often a deal killer and then there is the unknown wear and tear factor. I recently stripped and then scrapped half a dozen Case deck shells from the seventies because used decks never bring much money so why would I invest my time in them and perhaps make two bucks an hour?

Where do you see anything announcing that Ingersoll's are going to Kohler's exclusively? That spec on the 6000 series is for the old machine, not the new one. I'm not saying you are wrong but no announcement has been made on that issue so far. There has been talk that the new 4400 may be fitted with a Kohler but since that tractor is still undergoing R&D, anything might change. And even if they do pick a Kohler for that one, it would surprise me to see them drop the Vanguard for the other models.

With all that has happened to this brand over the past few years, dealers are reluctant to stock up on inventory that they may have difficulty selling for a number of reasons. Lack of brand recognition, price point, the economy, fear over the future of Ingersoll all play a part. Last year, Ingersoll began putting in an appearance at some of the larger tractor shows and I suspect that they will enlarge that program this coming year.

What better way to make the brand known then to bring it right to the people who enjoy tractors? As for the "factory rep", perhaps you are referring to Bill Parkin. He was chief engineer for Ingersoll when they were in Winneconne. Bill was invited to make the move to Maine but declined. Bill has a young family and deep roots in Wisconsin. We speak via e-mail these days but when Bill was with Ingersoll, we often talked on the phone.

The other possibility is that you are referring to Bob Jensen. I forget why Bob decided to move on but it had zero to do with how things were with the company.

These tractors aren't in the weight class for a CAT 1 hitch. They've always used CAT 0. This is a garden tractor, not a sub-CUT or CUT. I'd rather have a tractor that has no issues with handling CAT 0 implements than one that is forced to use "limited CAT 1" implements because the implement is just too heavy for the size and weight of the tractor.

Eastman is slowly working on the stable dealer network and as that comes into place, then parts and service will be right there at the dealer. Very little goes wrong with these tractors due to the design of them and the quality of the parts chosen to build them. Of course, nothing is 100% bullet-proof but those who own new Ingersoll products do sing their praises on this issue.

I am curious as to what "innovation" you believe is required. This is a well-proven product just as it is. The 400 Case tractor built in the 70's weighed in around the 770 lb mark. The new 4223's are pushing 1000 lbs and the engines aren't cast iron any more. That extra poundage came from somewhere. The Hydriv system works so why change it to something that is really expensive to repair, like an integrated hydrostatic drive would be? If the hydraulic pump fails in one of these tractors, the owner can install a new one all by himself for two to three hundred dollars depending upon year and model. The drive motors have amazing life to them but even if one failed, those too can be replaced by the homeowner.

Having nearly ten gallons per minute of oil at your fingertips means that the homeowner can design and build his own attachments and power them with hydraulic cylinders or motors. No belts, no pulleys, no driveshafts to worry about. Just push and click two hoses into the PTO and the implement is ready to be used. Switching attachments couldn't be faster or easier.

I don't find anything negative about the Ingersoll's. People bemoan what is happening to the tractors they see on the showroom floors. You hear things such as "They don't make them like they used to." Wrong. Ingersoll not only makes them like they used to but today, they make them even better. There is no need to make garden tractors complicated. Keep It Simple, Stupid is the KISS principle that Ingersoll follows.

Until you and others actually own one, drive one and work on one, then you are at a disadvantage in this conversation. A new Ingersoll isn't for everybody because not everybody can afford one. It is a high-end tractor with a high-end price.

I rarely post here any more but I do look in every now and then. I saw this thread and just wanted to make a few corrections. There are quite a few very good machines out there but I think you'll agree that it's getting tougher to find something that will last for thirty to forty years these days with proper care and maintenance. Although the Ingersoll's do cost quite a bit up front, when you amortize that cost over as little as twenty-years, they don't look so pricey.

This is a discussion forum so I don't look upon your post as being any sort of buzz-kill. Maybe you'll be at one of the tractor shows this year that Ingersoll attends and you will get a chance to try one out. That's the only fair way to assess any product. Anything else is simply speculation.

Very nicely stated kompressor. I am glad Ingersoll is still around and still made in America. Looking forward to see the new models they have coming in the future.

The last Wheelhorse classic 315-8 was porduced in 2007 They are still advertised on the Toro web site but are not being produced anymore

well ... i do enjoy a some good feedback...

and while I do enjoy a well built machine - its likely the nearest Ill get to one of these units - is a used one (at best).

Ill have to keep my eyes open for one that needs a bit of love...

Dave

lt150, thank you for your comments.

sergeant... sorry to hear that. One has to wonder why Toro would still keep that model on their site if the stopped making them 2 years ago. Perhaps they still have inventory in their warehouse and on dealer's floor. To me, it's a big loss to see such a worthy machine fade from the scene.

Dave,
Used Ingersolls and Case tractors show up regularly on Craigslist and e-Bay. If you want one to work around your property, then choose a 444, 446 or 448 Case. Just make sure it is 1971 or newer. There are some mid-80's models that are marked Case/Ingersoll or just Ingersoll. Tractors built in 1989 and up are Ingersoll 4000 series if you wish to have the Hi Wheel model.

Tractors built after 1986 all come with the holding valve built-in so if your property has steep grades, the holding valve is essential.

It is possible to buy an early but still decent 400 series with a deck for less than a grand.

Yes they still have inventory in the warehouse. All other tractors under the Toro label are MTD.

I should have said current Toro label are MTD

Hmmm - looking at youtube for some footage of these (444,446,448) machines, i can see there pretty rugged ... I assume the differences between the 444,446,448 would be the deck size?

Im not a believer in garden tractors needing big motors (with big trannies) - but are the 444/446/448 powered with the same motor - can someone give me a rough idea what those case units were powered with ?

I will start keeping my eyes open for a case - I think this is my next toy... I see on youtube someone has a little bucket loader on his... this would be ideal for me - but a blade would suffice.

Is this the bucket loader a typical attachment for this tractor ?

Also - based on previous statements - Tractors built in 1989 and up are Ingersoll 4000 series if you wish to have the Hi Wheel... What size would those wheels be prior to 89?

RE - Tractors built after 1986 all come with the holding valve built-in so if your property has steep grades...
In my case I do have an uneven yard ... and I am curious to know more about this "essential holding valve" ...

Your time, consideration, and input are greatly appreciated.
Thanks - Dave

There has always been a Lo Pro and Hi Wheel model. The tractors are identical in every aspect except for the parts used to change the ground clearance. The Lo Pro has 12" diameter rims and the Hi Wheel has 16". Nothing has changed on the wheel size issue from day one to now.

Lo Pro models built after 1968 are known as 200 series or 3000 series after 1988. Hi Wheel models are the 400 series which then became the 4000 series in 1989. There is four inches difference in ground clearance.

On three digit models, the last digit signifies the hp of the engine. Therefore a 222 or 442 is 12 hp and a 224/444 are 14 hp. Kohler K's in 10, 12 & 14 hp were used right up to 1988. Onan twins powered the 226, 446 and 448 tractors.

On the four digit models, the last two numbers dictate the engine hp. So a 4016, 4018, 4020 and 4223 have 16, 18, 20 and 23 hp respectively. When Ingersoll went to the four digit numbering system, they rotated the engine 180 degrees in the frame and began using an electric clutch instead of the mechanical one. This change meant the end of the left hand discharge deck and the introduction of the right hand discharge deck due to the engine's output shaft spinning in the opposite rotation in the frame.

It also meant that the old snocaster had to be fitted with a kit to compensate for this rotation change.

The standard deck for a 200 is a 38" but 44" and 48" decks could also be used if the buyer chose a 222 or 224 over the basic 210. The standard deck for the 400 is a 44" but a 48" was available. In 1980, Case added 2" to the wheelbase of the 400 so that a 60" wide deck could be used. That deck works only with 1980 and newer Hi-Wheel models. It is the only "timed" deck and as such, is more expensive to repair.

People have put aftermarket and home-built loaders on these tractors. I am not a big fan of this because the tractor was never designed for loader use. Two wheel drive FEL's are always a PITA to use and those without power steering are an even bigger PITA. Ingersoll four digit models such as the 4020 PS are the only models with power steering. Case and Ingersoll made a 600 series garden tractor with an integrated front-end loader but only the 648 came with power steering. The 644 and 646 never had it.

Aside from the lack of power steering, other issues such as wheel bearings, front spindles, front axle and the steering components are geared to garden tractor use, not FEL work. These were all beefed up dramatically in the 600 models. So to answer your question; the FEL is not a typical attachment. Johnny does make a JohnnyBucket for these tractors though, if all you wish to move around are light materials.

Because these tractors use hydraulic drive and not hydrostatic drive, the system can be over-ridden by gravity when owners fail to sit down and read their freaking Owner's Manual carefully and then go out and practice how to control their tractors on steep grades. Instead, they jump on them and start mowing the lawn right away and are shocked when the tractor runs away with them as they start to descend a hill.

In the late 70's, Case began offering a "holding valve kit" for the tractors that could be easily installed by the dealer or end user. It consisted of a rectangular valve plus some pre-bent steel tubes that allowed it to be installed between the travel control valve under the tractor and the drive motor that is bolted into the side of the trans-axle.

Shortly after Ingersoll bought the company, a new travel/lift valve was created that incorporated the "holding" feature. During 1985 and 1986 model years, this new valve became standard on the various models at differing times. For "runaway" to be a real problem, you have to have some pretty steep grades.

If you watch e-Bay, then do a search under "Case lawn mower". You will find examples of the older holding valve kit, as well as the old travel/lift valve and the newer travel/lift/holding valve.

Hmmm ... very interesting - thank you for this info...

I just bought a real clean Ingersol 446 with a 48" snowblower and a 46 or 48" mower deck. I am looking to get the operating, parts and service manuals for this machine. If anyone can steer me in the right direction I would appreciate it.

The deck may say N-46 or M-46 but the cutting width is actually 48'.

Operator Manuals and Service Manuals must be purchased. Check with Ed at http://www.casegardentractors.com

Go to the 'Manuals' section of his website and use the serial number of your tractor to select the appropriate Operator's Manual and Parts Book if you want a factory hard copy. You will have to e-mail Ed about the service manual.

The parts book can be downloaded to your hard drive or printed out for free by going to Ingersoll's website below. Click on the 'Illustrated Parts List' and then scroll down to find the 446 PDF that contains your tractor's serial number. You may as well get the parts book for your deck while you are there.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ingersoll

Thank you for the info.

In reguards to the Wheelhorse classic tractor 315-8 a limited production run was done in 2008 for the special addition models but there are currently now pland to produce anymore at this time.

I have an Ingersol 446 tractor with an Ingersol 48" snow blower. I cannot figure out where the belt tension spring is supposed to connect to. At the rear of the blower where it connects to the tractor there is an arm with the tension idler pulley mounted to it. This arm has a spring connected to it that must connect to the mounting bracket somewhere but I cannot see where that may be. I have looked at the parts breakdown and do not see any mounting point or bracket to connect the other end of the spring to. If anyone out there is familiar with this setup and can help me out it would be greatly appreciated.

It's simple but not obvious. Hook it over the cross brace of the snowblower mounting bracket. Don't expect to find a hole, notch or other indication, just loop it over.

If you attach the spring before installing the belt it's easy. If the belt is already attached then you might try opening the hood and threading a long piece of baling wire down through the front of the tractor so you can pull up on it. WARNING: If ever there were a time to wear safety glasses this is it. Ditto for all messing around with springs under tension.

Couldn't help but revive this old thread.

I'm the original owner of a 1991 Ingersoll 3012, (Kohler magnum 12hp engine), RM44 (44") mower deck and a dozer blade. I bought an Ingersoll because my yard ate hardware store mowers and at the time, cast iron front axles were being replaced by manufacturers with welded tubes. I knew this was a bad idea and so did Ingersoll.

In that 19yrs. other than oil and air filter changes, I've boiled out the carb once, replaced one hydraulic hose, replaced the bearings and center spindle in the deck, front wheel bearings, an idler pulley, a deck adjustment bar, a belt or two, a spark plug or two, a set of blades and its still worth near half what I paid for it.

Can't tell you how many acres of grass its mowed or feet of snow its plowed or tons of rock its graded and its ready for more.

Recently I thought I wanted something new and did some shopping. While cast iron front axiles are no longer rare and hydrostatic drive is common, full hydrolic, as Ingersoll provides, is rare and still, nothing compares with their raw durability. Since I too an 19 yrs. older, I may upgrade to the softer ride the 4000 series tractors provide with their 32" rear tires but lawn equipment dollars will not be fearfully spent on a new Ingersoll.

I've not seen a tougher machine in their weight/size class and I really don't think a grand will buy my old one.

If you have flat and smooth, then a uni body might serve you well but if its rough and wooded, do yourself a favor, look at em, hard.

Normally, I'd be quite critical of someone hauling an old thread out of the archives and reviving it but your post does fit into the spirit in which this thread began.

Ask an Ingersoll dealer and they will tell you about the customer loyalty they enjoy thanks to the durability that is built into every one of these garden tractors. I am not being critical when I say that there is nothing all that unique about your 19 years of experience with your GT. When John (Jack) Ingersoll bought the Outdoor Power Equipment Division belonging to J. I. Case and put his name on it, the slogans used in their advertising went as follows:

- Quality in the American tradition

- Be in a class by yourself

- Ingersoll...Invest in the best

- The tractor of a lifetime

I would have to say that your experience proves that the above slogans were not an exaggeration in any way. I don't know of another tractor today that uses hydraulic drive, offers a large line of hydraulically powered attachments or still builds their garden tractors without compromise.

You invested in the best and it paid off in spades because after 19 years of hard use, you still own a tractor that has value to others. If you amortize what you paid for your tractor over the 19 year period and include the cost of replacement parts, the annual cost of ownership of this fine quality machine is very low. The other bonus is the absence of the aggravation factor that comes with owing an Ingersoll. When other people are having to take the time needed to send their low quality machine in for repair and then pick it up, your Ingersoll was at home and ready to do some more work for you.

A "generation" occurs every 20 years and to some, that is a lifetime. Your tractor is still far from being dead even after 19 years so Jack Ingersoll wasn't lying when he said his products were "the tractor of a lifetime".

Thanks for providing your first-hand report about a marque that few people have heard of but still "makes them like they used to", only better.

I got my first 2 on dec. 29 2009 448 and 446. 448 running with a 16 horse onan. I'm rerebuilding engine 18 hp for 448 someone put new rod in but wrong style heavier rod so out balance only run engine short time to vibration. I've read many time run for 30 years rebuild run another 30 years so my 250.00 each tractors on there second 30 years.

Thanks kompressor,

My intent wasn't to start a brand war discussion, or dredge up old posts. Like I said, I've been shopping lately and nosing around here seemed a good idea, found that thread and tossed in my two bits.

~~~ If you amortize what you paid for your tractor over the 19 year period and include the cost of replacement parts, the annual cost of ownership of this fine quality machine is very low. ~~~

This can not be deined, at least in my experience.

~~~ The other bonus is the absence of the aggravation factor that comes with owing an Ingersoll. When other people are having to take the time needed to send their low quality machine in for repair and then pick it up, your Ingersoll was at home and ready to do some more work for you. ~~~

There is a possible negative to buying a new Ingersoll. Since so few things needed repair, my mechanical abilities stagnated :-)

Also there was no need to keep up with the current offerings. I've heard good things about Husqvarna, JDs are everywhere, as well as Cubs but when I look at how they are made and compare to what I have ... They don't show too well. All the way up to JD X700, I wouldn't trade even, for use on my rough, wooded lot.

As to not keeping up with current offerings and thinking of making a change, can someone tell me about the relative improvement in ride from the Ingersoll 3000 series to the 4000s? Common sense says that such an increase in tire diameter should have a marked effect. Also, I've been advised that the new vangaurds are much better than the old Onans. True?

My single lung Kohler is pretty loud. The V twin should be much quieter and I'm told, better fuel economy. Yes?

Thanks.

Some say that they can detect a noticable difference in the ride between the two models and I think that's more true on certain properties than others due to the terrain.

The upside to the big wheel tractors is the additional 4 inches of ground clearance that comes in handy when you are "off road" so to speak. The slight downside is that the big wheel tractors are not as easy to mount and do not have as low a center of gravity for working on steep grades.

The Vanguard uses about 1/3 less fuel than either the Onan or the Kohler K's and M's. The Onan's still have a much better torque curve and have been known to chug on through stuff that slows the Vanguards down. And yes, the twins are quieter and have less vibration.

Production of the 3000 models has begun once again and they are available in 19, 21 and 23 hp versions and I believe that power steering can be had too. The new tractors turn tighter than before and some models offer a foot pedal to control ground speed but the direction is still controlled by a lever.