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flgargoyle

Mowing lawn with a 'real' tractor?

flgargoyle
17 years ago

Anyone out there mowing there lawn with a 'real' tractor, like a small Kubota, Kioti, Farmall Cub, etc.? We have 7 acres in SC that we are going to develop and live on in a couple years, and I will need a true tractor for various chores around the place. What I need to know is whether I can mow the lawn w/ a machine like that, or will I want (or need) a separate lawnmower? We'll probably have about an acre of lawn, kept to 'farm' standards (If I wanted a perfect lawn, I'd stay in the 'burbs where I am now). The house will be about 300' from the road through the woods, so nobody will be able to see the lawn anyhow. If the tractor will work, what type of mower attachment should I look for? Belly? Tow-behind?

Comments (41)

  • castoff
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If you have need of a CUT sized tractor because you want to do more than just mow one acre of grass, then a Kubota or copycat Kioti, John Deere, New Holland Boomer, Case etc. are all viable choices. If you go with a CUT, then you sould also consider a FEL for it. At that point, I think I would choose a five-foot wide three-point finishing mower for the ease of attaching it.

    You will still need a push mower to handle the sreas that the CUT is too clumsy or large to get into.

    If you buy the CUT with the FEL, then 4WD is essential. Pick a loader that has a quick-tach feature plus auxilliary hydraulic lines running down the loader arm. That will allow you to use other implements on the front of the machine.

    A TC-45 Boomer with cab, FEL, air etc. should be around thirty grand or so.

  • metal
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    castoff hit on an important point. If you know you will be using a larger tractor to mow, make sure you landscape accordingly or you will be spending about as much time around the edges as you do on the rest of the lawn. I have a friend who bought a commercial ZTR for his 8 acre "lawn" and an old Ford 8N w/FEL for other tasks and he said it works out very well.

  • don21
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If you're only cutting an acre, a sub-CUT with a 54 or 60 inch belly mower is all you need. I cut just over an acre with a Kubota G-2160 diesel with a 54 inch belly mower and it's a breeze. Hydro trans, power steering and power deck lift. I added the hydraulic 3 point hitch and I use it for lots more than just cutting grass

    Don

  • johndeere
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I mow with a John Deere 4410 ''CUT compact untility tractor with a 72'' mid mount.Mows just as nice a LT GT.The only thing that can be a problem is low hanging tree limbs.Especially when you catch one with the ROP.

    You could use a old Farmall C or something like that with a belly mower.But then tree limbs are more of a problem and that type tractor is limited to what else you can do with it.

    A Ford 4000 would be a nice tractor with a loader to have around and you could have a rear finish mower.Is alot more useable then a 8N and has a live pto and very capable hydrauilics and a nicer bucket available.

    Sounds like a compact utility tractor with a loader would be just about right for your needs with a midmount mower.But sticker shock might steer you toward a good used Ford 4000 as described.Less money and more tractor.

  • johntommybob
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have an old classmate who is also a farmer. He cuts his grass with a international cub with a belly mower, and he has done this for a long, long time. At one time I had a "C" Farmall and I never gave a thought that I could have put a belly mower on it. If I had - I would still have it. The thing was a jewel and would turn around in its own tracks.

  • nancyk
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If you have any inclines, the tractor tires may tear up your lawn. We used a 20 hp riding mower for years but because of the lack of oopmh on any inclines my husband started mowing with our 38 hp tractor and 6 ft. finishing mower. It left the lawn areas looking "just o.k.", and the inclines with lovely tread marks. We just purchased a zeroturn, about time.

    Nancy

  • castoff
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If you read the OP's post carefully, he states that he has seven acres that he intends to "develop" and as such, needs a true tractor to carry out chores OTHER than just lawn cutting.

    I take it that the need for the true tractor is not negotiable. His real question is whether or not he can get away with just the tractor with a belly/finishing mower OR he is better served by purchasing a small LT to handle the lawn cutting chore.

    From my experience, I think he should have the small LT because he is only cutting an acre of lawn and the LT will get in tight around all obstructions such as trees, flower beds and foundation planting. The larger tractor will be too cumbersome and lawn damage is sure to result, especially if he is in a sandy area of FLA.

    In addition, a good finishing mower is in the same price range as an LT and a belly mower is likely to cost even more. Having both means he can jump on the LT any time he wants to, without having to drop one implement and pick up another. On top of that, he will save even more time because he won't have to haul out a push mower to cut all those places the big tractor missed.

    If his budget allows and time is a big factor, then a residential ZTR with a 48 inch deck would speed things up dramatically and still give him an excellent appearing lawn.

    Oh and..... good post, nancyk. Your direct experience with all three types of machines is exactly the kind of input that helps others.

  • Pooh Bear
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I use an 8N with a 60 inch rear finish mower to mow my yard.
    We have 3 acres, a little over 2 of it is yard.
    Then subtract all the buildings, garden, dog lot, driveways, etc.
    Then last year when gas prices went so high I made a deal with
    a neighbor. He provided the fence material and I install it.
    Fenced off half the yard and let his cows do the mowing for me.
    They keep the woods down by the river cleaned out too.

    The 8N does a real nice job of mowing the yard.
    There is very little that I can't get to.
    And that can be mowed with a push mower. Or RoundUp.

    And it depends on what you expect your yard to look like.
    My yard was a cowfield when we moved here.
    We just started mowing it. No fertilizer, no weed killer.
    Didn't do anything to it but start mowing it.
    It may not pass for a lawn in some subdivisions
    but it is the best looking yard in my neighborhood.

    My Yard before letting the cows in it.

    Pooh Bear

  • flgargoyle
    Original Author
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lots to think about- thanks! Much of the land will remain woods, but I plan a big garden area, and will need a CUT w/FEL for light excavation, driveway maintenance, and moving stuff around. Now that I think about it, though, a tractor that will pull a plow or harrow will have to have ag tread tires- probably not great for mowing, esp. considering much of the land has a slope to it. Note that the property is in SC, not FL, so it is a clay-type soil. As for the lawn, I plan to keep it more of a 'short pasture' rather than a real lawn. I'm hoping I can find a useable CUT w/ FEL for $10K or so. I suppose a cheap LT would work for the lawn around the house. I collect and restore old Cub Cadets; I could alway fit one of those w/ a mower deck for the close-in work.

  • castoff
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The FEL is a valuable tool but it is made far more usefull with four wheel drive and a hydrostatic transmission.

    A quick-tach on the FEL will allow you to drop the bucket in 20 seconds and put on a set of pallet forks. If you have no past experience with pallet forks, you will wonder how you got along without them after experiencing them for awhile.

    The best way to maintain your driveway is with a box blade equipped with a a ripper bar. Far faster than using a loader bucket and easier on the machine and you.

    Auxilliary hydraulics on the loader frame will allow you to rent a hydraulic post hole digger for fencing, run a hydraulic broom or use a bucket with a grapple.

    If the quick-tach is compliant with skid-steers, you open yourself up to one of the largest pools of attachments out there. You sound like the kind of guy who not only knows tractors but likes to do things himself. So, I don't really have to tell you that buying the right tractor the first time around is usually the least expensive decision.

    And what better way to cut your grass than with one of the best GT's made.

  • deerslayer
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Pooh Bear -- nice looking property!

    -Deerslayer

  • Pooh Bear
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks. I love living here.

    Don't worry about the ag-bar tires on your lawn.
    My 8N has R1 tires on it filled with fluid
    and they don't hurt the yard a bit.
    The 3rib tires on the front do the most damage, but not much.

    N series tractors are great, but not for a FEL or a tiller.
    Need to move up into the hundred series or up to a 4000.

    I just plowed our garden over the weekend. 36x60 feet.
    Ran thru it with a 16 inch bottom plow, then a disk harrow.
    Gettin' ready to plant them 'maters.

    Pooh Bear

  • jeffgt5000
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Being in a similar situation I opted for a light duty GT to handle lawn and garden duties near the house and use my tractor on the rest of the property. Actually I bought the GT first and used it for everything while I saved to by the larger tractor and some implements.

    If you're budgeting $10K for a CUT and FEL that means you are looking at a small tractor. Small CUT have low PTO HP, low 3pt lift and low loader lift capacity. Low HP and lift will limit it to a 4' or 5' finishing mower. Also consider a CUT in that price range is most likely going to have an unsynchronized 4 speed gear transmission and that MMM and rear finishing mowers (RFM) will cost between $1k and $2.5k. For the money you can buy a hydrostatic LT or GT with a 4' or 4.5' cutting deck and mow the 1 acre lawn faster with out the stress of worrying about poking the loader through a wall or car door. Having a LT/GT also allows you to pull a sleeve hitch core aerator, lawn sweeper, garden cart, spreader and detacher with minimal soil compaction. Compaction is an important consideration with clay.

    My loaded AG tread (R1) tires leave clearly visible tread marks in my clay soil lawn if it is even slightly damp. If its wet the tractor will cut 2" deep ruts in a single pass. BTW, R1 is usually the best choice for working on hill sides. Though narrower then R2 or R4 tires but resist lateral sliding better and on larger tractors the R1 rims are adjustable and can be set further away from the tractor allowing for a wider stance.

    On a small tractor's a Bobcat style quick attach (QA) loader isn't really practical for two reasons. First CUT have low hydraulic flow rates (measured in gallons per minute) compared to skid steers, in the range of 1/3 to 1/5 the rate. Attachments with hydraulic motors like post hole diggers or snow blowers can not spin fast enough, or have sufficient torque, to be effective. More importantly QA attachments are industrial duty, which translates to heavy. My light duty (by QA standards) pallet forks weigh 300 pounds, many small cuts can lift only twice that weight at the loaderÂs pivot pins. Using those forks a small cut would be lucky to lift a 200 pound pallet. On larger tractor though, a QA is a very convenient option.

  • castoff
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    For the most part, I agree with jeffgt5000 but perhaps some clarification is needed, since his advice might seem slightly opposite to what I posted earlier.

    The OP stated that he was seeking a "real tractor". To me, that would mean a unit with a CAT 1 three-point hitch capable of handling all the CAT 1 implements. Some tractors are fitted with the CAT 1 hitches but they have limited use due to inadequate tractor weight and horsepower.

    Based on the OP's mention of a real tractor, I suggested a New Holland TC45DA because it's three-point is rated at 2,330 pound lift capacity. With four-wheel drive, 45 gross hp and 38 PTO hp, this tractor will handle any chores that a seven acre parcel of land can toss its way. Not bad for a tractor that weighs two tons.

    Comparable models can be found in the Case DX45, Kubota L 4330 and M- 4800, Kioti DK-45S, John Deere 3720 and 4120 and Massey 1540.

    The quick-tach loader for this tractor has a lift capacity of 1540 pounds. The lift capacity of a Case 40XT skid-steer loader is 1500 pounds by comparison. Therefore, THIS PARTICULAR TRACTOR will handle the same attachments the 40XT will and to me the 40XT is the benchmark.

    As for hydraulics, the TC45's pump puts out almost 10 gallons per minute. Hydraulic post hole diggers will run on as low as 4 gpm. Ten gpm is more than adequate. Sure, the unit will turn only half as fast if it were powered by a 19 gpm pump, like that in the Case 40XT but nonetheless, it will dig post holes for you.

    Ten gpm will also power any skid-steer style implements with small hydraulic motors or with hydraulic cylinders. As for snowblowers, I don't think that one of those is in your future.

    The above is not intended to be argumentative. The issue here is YOUR NEEDS and then choosing the best tractor that will easily handle those needs with safety. There are GT's out there, sub-cuts and CUT's. It's all about size, weight and horespower as to what is right for you.

    My city-boy son-in-law asked me what he should buy for his 25 acre horse farm a year ago last fall. We found a nice, used TC45DX Boomer for him with a cab, air and FEL. He procrastinated for his own reasons and it got sold. He then found a nice 25 hp Ford CUT with FEL and I told him not to buy it because it was underpowered, underweight, manual transmission and had no cab.

    He went ahead and bought it. Within two months of using it, he concluded that he made a huge mistake and is now in the process of seeking out another TC45 or equivalent. Good used CUT's are out there but your budget is a bit slim for the models I mentioned. Instead of just reading about them, you should pound the pavement from dealer to dealer and look at new ones and then see what's available used in the size you think will work for you.

  • wheelhorse_of_course
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think your first goal is to determine if a brush hog is suitable for this "lawn area". My guess is there is a good chance it will. You may want 1/8 acre right around the house to be nicer, but my guess is this semi pasture area could be cut 2-5 times a season with a brush hog and you'd be happy.

    The brush hog will most likely be handy for clearing up the property too (if there are overgrown areas).

  • jeffgt5000
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bush hog (a.k.a. rotary cutters) have a series draw back as a lawn mower, they are dangerous to use near people or property. Even with chain guards or rubber deflectors they will fling objects like stones, loose pavers, golf balls, stray toys, etc out the back at very high speed. Besides the danger an RC leaves a ragged cut, doesnt mulch and the tractors heavy weight will compact clay soil.

    Castoff, I'm with you any of those would be a great choice if flgargoyle wants to double or triple his budget. A $10k CUT, like a Kubota B7410, just isnt going to match what a big CUT can do.

  • castoff
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    jeff,
    I completely agree. My daughter runs a small internet biz from her home plus she looks after four horses, some of the outside maintenance and the cooking and cleaning inside the house My son-in-law runs his own business but spends more than two hours per day commuting back and forth.

    Before they bought this farm, I tried to make them understand that there are only 24 hours in the day and you can't always rely on having good weather either. Therefore, you must buy equipment that will get tasks done quickly and in almost any kind of weather.

    At one point, the reply was: "We don't need no stinkin' cab." LOL

    This old man now gets to chuckle when he sees his SIL freezing his a$$ off using that dinky-toy bucket to clear snow drifts or watching the powder blow all over him from the blower. There's nothing like hands-on experience to drive home the point.

  • flgargoyle
    Original Author
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My only experience with tractors so far has been real antiques. I've had a Farmall Cub, and a John Deere H. I figure I'll need to go much more modern if I want a FEL. I looked at combination tractors on ebay, and there are tons of them (used) between $5 and $10K. I know tractors that cheap can have lots of problems, and bargains can get expensive real quick, but I've worked on a lot of construction equipment, so I know what to look for and how to fix it. I once rebuilt a small bulldozer one winter, so things like that don't scare me. It's really not going to get used that much- if I have serious work to do (like clearing a couple acres of stumps) I'll rent an excavator. I may have a lot of fence posts to set, depending on how I use the land, and plans are for a 100 x 100 garden area. It's a little silly to use a 50 HP tractor for that, but hey, it's a toy! Probably the biggest usage after I have the land the way I want it is mowing bigger areas, plowing the garden, and grading the driveway. I'm starting to think some kind of LT would be best for mowing close in. I already told DW that the only mowing will be whatever I can reach from a seat. No weed wacking, edging, raking, etc.

  • metal
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Be very weary of the E-bay tractors with prices "too good to be true." There have been multiple posts on here of scams.

  • don21
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I agree that I wouldn't consider a brush hog for use around people/buildings/vehicles - Plus there's little to be gained. An average brush hog is a 6 footer and you can get 6 foot finish belly mowers for even sub-CUT's, so what't the point in using a poor cutting, dangerous brush hog for lawn cutting when something so much better is available for a smaller machine?

    True enough, my sub-CUT has little hydraulic capacity and only sports a CAT 0 3 point hitch, but you would be surprised at the amount of work I get done with a 4 foot grader blade and turf tires . . . . which still makes it an excellent lawn mower and that's what it does about 80% of the time. I'm sure the lift limit on the 3 point is probably 1,000 pounds or less, but it will pull fence posts, carry loads on forks or soil in a Johnny bucket with no problem

    A FEL would be nice once in a while, but only if the whole thing could be quickly detatched and reattached because 95% of the time it would be in the way of what I use my tractor for. My biggest pre-buy decision was whether or not I needed a FEL - If you DO, then you're in one class of machine and you're talking $10K or so even on the used market. If you don't, you can get by for about half of that, so is the FEL worth $5K or more to you? - THAT'S what you need to decide before you spend your money

    Don

  • steve2ski
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have a "real tractor" JD2040 w/143 FEL and a Woods RM990 8' cut finish mower.
    The tractor was purchased primarly for the FEL, handling large amounts of bulk mulch(approx 240 yds) per season.
    The Woods was a addition to get alittle more use from the investment.
    To have a FEL on the front and a RM mower on the back is a accident waiting to happen in tight places. You need a swivel head and large mirrors not to mention a little luck for accident prevention. I would not recommend this type of equipment on a lawn period.
    I think I presently have a buyer for the Woods this spring, since I lost the mowing contract for a 16 acre patch to a Bota ZD28 72" cut. The Bota cuts it in alot less time and the finish appearance is much better.
    Oh I purchased the 2040 used for $7K ended up spending $4K on the Hydraulics the first yr and then $1.5K for tires 2 yrs later. (owned it 5 yrs) been doing a little landscaping part time for several yrs.
    The 2040 is a 1979 model with 1800+ hrs on the clock, 40HP, 3 cyl Diesel, 8 Forward-2 rev gear tran. Some true JD people refer to it as not a Real JD since its a German vintage. This has been a excellant tractor for use with a FEL, but for mowing buy a mower.
    I sill rent a Skidloader once in a while for specfic jobs.

  • castoff
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    There are tractors out there which are smaller but still have a FEL that are close to the OP's budget. Used units with low hours on them represent good value for the money spent. The first owner took the big hit, depreciation-wise. Anything under a 1000 hours on the clock is unlikely to need any major repairs for years to come.

    New or used, they all get dirty and scratched once you start using them. That "new car smell" is only good for about ten minutes.

    Here are some decent units that would probably fit the needs:

    http://www.ironsearch.com/IRONSearch/details.aspx?IWNO=179039&rowid=B2555F8D-1B98-4419-ADDB-33FB2C4BE12E

    http://www.ironsearch.com/IRONSearch/details.aspx?IWNO=713661&rowid=B2555F8D-1B98-4419-ADDB-33FB2C4BE12E

    http://www.ironsearch.com/IRONSearch/details.aspx?IWNO=787098&rowid=B2555F8D-1B98-4419-ADDB-33FB2C4BE12E

    http://www.ironsearch.com/IRONSearch/details.aspx?IWNO=775272&rowid=B2555F8D-1B98-4419-ADDB-33FB2C4BE12E

    http://www.ironsearch.com/IRONSearch/details.aspx?IWNO=799165&rowid=B2555F8D-1B98-4419-ADDB-33FB2C4BE12E

    It's all about taking the time to search out that perfect tractor at the right price.

  • Pooh Bear
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Don't knock the idea of using an old tractor.
    My tractor is an early 1949 8N.
    I can still get all the parts for it.
    Most of them from the local Napa store.

    I'm not suggesting you get a tractor that old.
    Going a little newer would get you live lift and live PTO.
    And power steering, and better to use a loader with.

    The tractor I want is a Ford 3000. Made sometime in the 1960's.

    Pooh Bear

  • castoff
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    pooh,
    There is nothing more useles than a two wheel drive tractor with no diff-lock, that has a FEL fitted to it.

    The second most useless tractor is one that doesn't have a decent amount of gallons per minute in it's hydraulic system and is devoid of auxilliary hydraulic circuits with control valves.

    In this day and age, there are lots of good used tractors available that have four wheel drive, modern loaders, diff lock, auxilliary hydraulics, live PTO's, three point hitches with draft control, power steering and even hydrostatic transmissions. Reaching back to an houred-up thirty to fifty year old tractor isn't necessary or even advisable unless your budget forces you to do so out of sheer desperation.

    The tractors in my post above are all late model units that have low hours and all or most of the features mentioned in the above paragraph.

    You really need to stop by a tractor dealer and experience something made in the last ten years. It just might surprise you as to how far things have come and just how antiquated your trusty old 8N really is.

    Perhaps then, you might set your sights higher than an old Ford 3000. LOL

    Take care.

  • flgargoyle
    Original Author
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    castoff- thanks for those links! Those are newer tractors than I would be looking at- golly day, my pick-up is 11 years old! But it goes to show that you can buy a pretty decent tractor in the $10K range. I'll admit that the tractor isn't going to pay for itself- it's a toy, really. I'm a DIY type to the extreme, and I like having tools at my disposal for any reasonable task. I find renting to be a pain. I won't need a heated enclosed cab, or anything like that. I wouldn't plow in the rain anyhow (esp. in clay). Not enough snow to worry about in SC. I imagine the tractor will be in the barn about 95% of the time.

  • Pooh Bear
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh, I wouldn't say useless.
    My 8N does almost everything I want or need to do.
    I would love to have a loader and a backhoe.
    And being able to run a tiller would be nice.
    Would also like to be able to run a hay baler.

    But other than that stuff, I'm fine with my 8N.
    And I only paid $2400 for it.
    Got another $1000 or so invested in implements.
    For under $5000 I could get a Ford 3000.
    I drove one on a farm when I was a teen ager.
    I have wanted one of my own ever since.

    Considering that 85% of what I do is mow the yard,
    my 8N is just fine for that. I also play in the dirt some.
    For that I don't need all the bells and whistles.

    Sure, a late model tractor with 4wd and all that would be great.
    But I simply can't afford it. Or even justify it.

    Pooh Bear

  • castoff
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Pooh,
    Maybe you misunderstood.

    Your 8N is to the tractor world what the Model T was to the world of cars. Henry had a winner with the 8N and 9N. But you don't have a loader on your 8N.

    If you did, I would send you to the nearest pile of wet, slippery stinkng cow manure and then laugh while you struggled to get that 8N to back away with a full bucket of cow crap dripping off of it.

    Use it to pull a plow or haul a wagon or disc/harrow a field. The 8N will still do a good days work. Put a loader on it and you have just moved into a territory that the 8N cannot compete in.

    But this discussion is about the needs of the OP, isn't it? I understand your budget and your needs and I respect the fact that you are willing to work with the limitations imposed.

    All that aside, my impression is that the OP is best served with a much more modern tractor and his budget indicates that he can afford those bells and whistles.
    Cheers,

    Castoff

  • glen3787
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I used to mow 5 acres with 1953 Ford Jubilee pulling a Woods RD72 finishing mower, and it did a good job. I was very happy with the Old Ford till I brought a new tractor home.

    Now I'm using a JD 4410 ehydro with turf tires, and what a difference diesel power makes. Also with the ehydro, you have 2 foot pedals (fwd & rev) and no clutch or changing gears. The more you push the pedal the faster it goes. It's now a joy to mow the lawn!

  • Pooh Bear
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Castoff, I couldn't agree more.
    Let's work within the limits of the OP, not mine.

    I may go have a look at those links myself.
    Mite find something I like better than a 3000.
    No reason for me to wish too low.

    Pooh Bear

  • johndeere
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Castoff im disapointed in you!You get upset when people give poor information.Then you say things like you need a hydrostat transmission and 4 wheel drive for a front end loader.Then put up links to little pip squeek tractors and misinform people like that.

    I thought this was about real tractors?Not riding lawn mowers on stearoids?

    I agree your thoughts are better then the old 8N.But for that kind of money your linking to you can have a real tractor like a Ford 4000 I did not mention this is a industrial tractor they come either way but industrial is the way to go.

    You do not need 4 wheel drive when the tractor has enough arse to push or pull the load.You do not need hydrostat.Its not a real tractor if it has it.Shuttle shift with a torge converter is my pick with a tracor with a loader.Select your foward gear push in the Tourqe converter button.To stop touch the breaks to back up just pull back on the shuttle shift lever to go forward push the lever forward to creep lightly touch the break.

    There not that old they were built for years a 15 year old model will still be going strong after the Yanmar or other pip squeek engine is long gone.

    Its a real loader tractor that you do not have to worry about the arse end flipping up like a pip squeek or buckling the loader.You could lift a Sub Compact or Compact with this real tractor for around the same money.Used of course.

    Also maybe you need a cab up there but down here there a PITA in the warm weather.I would rather deal with a little cold weather with a heat houser then to sweat and burn the other 9 months out of the year.AC is no good on a tractor in this HP range because it robs to much HP.

    I mow with a 4410 John Deere with ehydro and 4 wheel drive to help me get out of road ditches.But the hydro is another HP robber.There fine for mowing and light work but.If I had my choice of it or a Ford 4000 as mentioned for loader work there is no comparison.That why after the mowing is done the CUT stays in the shed.

    If I was wanting to mow 1 acre and have a capable tractor for 6.I would have a Ford 4000 or something like that with a loader and a bush hog or finish mower depending on the need for that 6 acres and other atachments and a cheap ''Twin'' cylinder lawn tractor to mow the 1 acre.Maybe a LA120 John Deere not so cheap as a LA100 however.

  • castoff
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    OK JD, let the games begin. LOL

    First off, let's keep something in mind. This thread is about giving the OP advice as to which SIZE of tractor might best suit his needs. Any advice given, was done so based on whatever he disclosed. And the words he used were "with a 'real' tractor, like a small Kubota, Kioti, Farmall Cub, etc.?". So, he defined what "a real tractor" meant to him and I took him into an even larger series.

    So...... please read messages carefully before you attempt to chastise me by saying that I am giving out bad info.

    If someone has five acres or more that they intend to "develop" (check the OP's own words), then having a tractor with a FEL is very handy, as we both know. Running a tractor with a FEL requires more skills than running a tractor without one. Buying a tractor with a two pedal hydro means that the operator doesn't have to think about whether s/he is in the correct gear or range.

    The trannys in "real tractors" have no syncromesh. If you have a hydro, there is no clutch to wear out or abuse nor will you grind any gears and possibly chip or break a tooth off of one.

    You mentioned a shuttle shift and I agree that they are great. I have run 580 Case's, JD's and JCB's with them but all of these are TLB's that are well over sixty hp and far larger than the OP needs. Anyone who has a reasonable amount of experience with hydrostatic drive knows about the instant torque multiplying feature that is attained just by lessening the pressure on the forward pedal or levers.

    No need to stop, put the shuttle in neutral, shift gears and then proceed in a lower gear to dive into the pile. I suggest that you stop by a New Holland dealer and try a TC45DA with a loader out. With a push of a button, that machine will shift from low range while entering and leaving the pile to high so that you can scoot to where you want to drop the material that's in the bucket.

    In my mind, it doesn't get any simpler or easier to use for the novice or the pro operator. I operated one of those Boomers and was totally impressed.

    And if 4 wheel drive isn't needed for loader work, then why is it that Cat, Case, JCB, Deere etc all offer that feature and enjoy massive sales. I am not even going to go into the logic behind having 4 wheel drive on a loader because it's a no-brainer. Especially when using a loader in muddy or slippery conditions, which happens all too often.

    The Ford 4000 is a good tractor but it weighs a 1000 pounds more than the Boomer, was never offered in 4 WD and was made between 1965 and 1975. On top of that, all you get out of the pump is 5.4 gpm.

    Any 4000 that is out there is likely to have well over 3000 hours on it after a minimum of thirty-two years. So, why would I advise someone to buy tractor technology that old and with that much wear and tear on it?

    Your comment about bucking the loader is bad information. Manufacturers install cylinders on loaders that are appropriate for the strength of the loader arms. If anything, they err on the side of safety because they don't need the warranty issues.

    As for the "arse flipping up", you just provided the very reason for 4WD. The second you push the loader bucket deep into the pile and try to lift the load, the front axle becomes the pivot point, thus unloading weight off of the rear tires. When that happens, the rear tires lose traction and spin. Having 4WD provides the needed tractive power to exit the pile.

    Having a cab with fully operable windows, allows you to work in cold weather with heat on and it keeps the snow and wind from making your life miserable. In warm weather, the cab keeps the sun off of your body but allows the air to flow right on through. Having AC means you can choose to turn it on or off, as need be. Sure, it takes a few hp to run the compressor but having it can mean the difference between doing that chore during the day or waiting until the crack of dawn the next day.

    If that task happens to be bush hogging ten acres of tall grass, then give me the cab and AC because if the bush hog is sized properly for the tractor, there is still plenty of ponies left to run the AC on a TC45.

    If you read the OP's latest comment, he was pleased to learn just how new a tractor he could buy and how much tractor he could buy for the ten grand plus budget he gave. So..... this isn't about which tractor pleases me or you. He has his property and perceived needs and you have yours. When it's all said and done, the final choice rests with him after reading and considering all the advice in this thread.

    Thanks for posting.

  • flgargoyle
    Original Author
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow! I'm glad I get to make my own decisions.... I guess I should have quantified what I mean by real tractor. My old Farmall Cub is about the minimum 'real' tractor- all cast construction, with enough weight and power to do some actual work. Although only rated at 10 horsepower, that Cub would probably drag most 25hp LT's backwards all day long, if only due to more weight and traction. Since I'm not trying to do any of this work for a living, I would imagine something in about a 30-40 hp machine would be more than adequate. It does seem as though you can get more bang for your buck w/ an older, bigger tractor, but I would have to luck onto one that wasn't beat to death. They're out there, but few and far between. If this goes the way of a lot of my purchases, I'll buy a fixer-upper, totally rebuild it, have twice as much money in it as it's worth, and my labor will work out to about $.47 an hour. But that's what makes me happy! It will probably depend on how much money or time I have when I buy one. Actually, what I was looking for was advice on the practicality of mowing w/ a bigger tractor, as opposed to a LT. It has kind of evolved in to a discussion on size and type of tractor to do other chores, which is a good thing, too. Personally, I think A/C and heat is ridiculous in a tractor unless you're gonna spend some serious time in the seat. My truck doesn't have A/C, and I live in FL! I've never operated a FEL on a tractor, but I've run them and backhoes on dedicated machines; I think I can figure it out, Obviously, I'll try out whatever I buy, so if a certain machine is a PITA, I'll move on to the next one. I belong to a large tractor club, with members who use modern machines as well as the old iron, so I should be able to easily try out some different machines there (they have a digging pit, among other cool stuff).

  • castoff
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    All of that is good. If you have run late model TLB's then you should be familiar with joystick loader controls and shuttle shift transmissions. As great and convenient as shuttle's are for loader work, I am not aware of any CUT's that are equipped with them. As such, the closest compararble option is the hydrostatic drive.

    With the hydro, your right foot chooses a reverse pedal or a forward pedal, leaving your left hand free to steer and your right hand free to operate the loader joystick.

    You simply preset the engine speed to keep the pump spinning for good loader response and let your foot pressure control the ground speed. My reference to A/C and heat was more rebuttal to what JD wrote than it was suggestion to you.

    Your latest post kinda surprises me. I was under the impression that you were prepared to spend 10 grand or so to get something that could plow your garden and carry out chores. Sure, you can find older tractors with loaders on them but will they be as convenient to operate as one of the units I gave you URLs for? Also, it's one thing to run a two wheel drive tractor with a loader on one end and a big backhoe hanging off the other in comparison to a two wheel farm tractor with a FEL only. The counter-weighting effect of the backhoe goes a long way to giving you traction which you won't get from the farm tractor.

    Of course, you could load the tires with calcium, add massive wheel weights and then make some sort of weight box that had to be picked up by the three point whenever you wish to do some serious loader work. Four wheel drive goes a long way to eliminating all of that but finding older 4WD farm tractors under the ten grand mark may prove difficult.

    It doesn't matter if you are doing this for a living or not. If you were, then my advice would have been to go finance a brand new unit with full warranty because you cannot make money with a machine that is waiting to be repaired.

    I think that it's a good idea for you to run this whole thing past the guys in your tractor group and then take a test drive/operation on one of the old two wheel drive FEL's and compare that to a 4WD one with a hydro in it. At that point, you will have enough info to choose whatever is best for you.

    Cheers.

  • mokevinb
    17 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    flgargoyle, my neighbor has used a cub for years for mowing his lawn. He has a 4 foot (approx.) belly mower under it, and other than the height around the trees, it does a nice job. He has used JD rear engine riders in the past, but they didn't cut a wide enough swath to make mowing a quick chore. Last year he bought a new JD 42hp CUT w MFWD and FEL. It is a very nice unit, although I think it is more than what he truly needs. (He bought it to replace a 50 something hp JD 2010 utility 2wd w FEL) The new tractor has a 5 ft tiller and a 6 ft field mower, it does a good job at both, but it isn't able to get around on ice! Something you won't have to worry with in FL!

    I use a 25 hp SubCUT with both a 4 ft brush hog and a 6 ft groomer. The groomer is actually too big for it, but if I keep the grass cut on a regular basis, the little devil can run it. The thing I like is with it being cat 1 3pt I can get several implements to use with it.

    If you are wanting to stay in the under 15k price range let me suggest you look at Mahindra and FarmTrac. Both are made in India, and have good dealer networks set up. (They have websites) The Mahindra used to build the smaller IH tractors, and FramTrac was the manufacturer of the Ford 3000 series. (They even still look like them!) My best recommendation is either keep the Cub for mowing around the house or replace it with a ZTR over 18hp and add a 35 hp or bigger tractor, with a FEL, PS a must!, and 4wd an optional idea. (You really won't need it unless you are planning on working in mud on a regular basis.)

  • green-zeus
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have nearly the same property as you have. Six acres, house 500' from the road,driveway goes thru woods. If you need to plow snow, that immediately calls for a 4x4 tractor. I also have property that has slight slopes on it. If you have that too, you will find it can even be difficult to mow uphill without 4 wheel drive!! One day I tried mowing uphill in 2 wheel drive and it wouldn't happen!! I also have the need for a frontend loader. So here's what I bought back in 1999. A 24 horse Kubota, 4x4,with a 60" mowing deck,frontend loader and outfitted with a Curtis snowplow. I also have the softcab on it--fabric sides and back that snap on in winter. A very nice thing when out pushing 2' of snow. The dealer might want to sell you the Kubota snowplow. I think very little of this plow. The great thing about Kubota is that everything is easy-on/easy-off. Except for this plow. They really screwed up this design. You have to bolt it on--ugh. So I would not buy it unless they've changed the design. The Kubota dealer I used was a big farm eqip dealer and they said they would make up a Curtis plow for me. Glad they did--it mounts on the arms just like the bucket does. Takes about 45 minutes to take mower deck and bucket off and mount the snowplow, and get the softcab on---and the 45 minutes even includes beer drinking time! I've used this outfit for 8 years and it has been great. Twice in those years I had 2' snowfalls with drifts higher than that. The Kubota handled it fine,altho you have to cut thru that much snow by taking it 1/2 at a time. But it has the guts to push the snow into 8 foot piles. The belly mower does a great job. Since I mow with this tractor WITH the frontend loader on all the time, I had to buy a smaller rider for trimming. Tow behind mowers are a pain in the back and neck if you don't have clear mowing. If you have objects to mow around, get a belly mower.

  • flgargoyle
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the advice, green-zeus (and everybody else). Snow isn't much of an issue in SC, although on rare occasions they do get nailed. Plans I have include mowing, gravel driveway maintenance, light excavation (maybe a water garden?), and dragging logs out of the woods, as well as usual tractor stuff. I almost never buy anything new, but I'll probably spend the money for something in good shape.

  • steve2ski
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The Owner of the Kubota called me to see if I would/could mow that 16 acre patch with the 2040 and woods rm - I sold the woods a couple of months ago. Gave him the name of the guy that bought it.
    The ZD28 is down - ctr spindle tore up - parts 2 weeks away - middle of mowing season - no back up unit - wow.

  • steve2ski
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Now the guy with the ZD28, purchased a 'Bota 326 60" with a bagger as a backup when the ZD28 is down, plus do some high visibility areas where bagging is necessary. That 326 Bota sure is a nice machine.

  • cherokee_140
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would say you are going to need both. I have 13ac and mow about 3-4 of it, the rest is bailed. A tractor that is going to be big enough to be usefull is going to be too big to get close to the wifes tulips.

  • lisa12conley
    8 years ago

    skinnerback41301 I just wanted to let you know, that yes you can mow your lawn with larger tractors.. my neighbor, he has religiously used a Ford 1920 4x4 with a 5 foot finishing mower for the past several years. In my opinion, he has lawn that one could easily mistake as a golf course if they didn't know otherwise. The tractor, by the way is approximately 25 to 30 horsepower. If mown when dry there is little evidence of a tractor being used at all.