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cutngo

Craftsman 21.5 HP Intek loss of power

cutngo
10 years ago

It has 407 hrs. on the motor. It started to lose power while mowing. I immediately shut it off and checked the oil. Not much. I filled it up with oil and cleaned the air filter. The motor will run fine under no load. Once the blade is engaged it runs strong momentarily and the bogs down to failure/off if I let it.

One plug was sooty. No oil on the plugs.

I've never changed the fuel filter.

Do you have any ideas?

Comments (105)

  • cutngo
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Valves. The valve spring retainers disintegrated upon removal.

  • mownie
    10 years ago

    With the combustion chamber side of valve (valve face) resting on a balled up rag/towel on your work bench.
    Take a socket, about a 9/16" will do. Put that socket on a short extension.
    Set the open end of the socket on the spring cap with the valve stem centered in the center of the socket.
    Now, gently strike the end of the extension with a mallet or light hammer as though you want to tap the valve spring down.
    This will break the "stiction" or varnish that develops over time in service.
    Once you have "broken" the spring cap loose from the 2 valve keeper collets, you can push the valve spring down as described earlier.
    Beware, you don't want to be too rambunctious with that hammering. If you get carried away, and the collets jump out when you strike, the valve spring may fly off. That seldom happens but you are a newbie at this, and so a word from the wise....yadda yadda.

  • mownie
    10 years ago

    ***"The valve spring retainers disintegrated upon removal."***
    You mean like they broke in half?
    Show us a photo of them.
    Probably just seeing valve spring collets for the first time :^)

  • cutngo
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    I hope theses aren't a gazillion dollars a piece. I lost two of them. Ok, duh, locks. Now what guru's?

    This post was edited by cutngo on Sun, Mar 30, 14 at 14:58

  • mownie
    10 years ago

    Those are just the normal state of the retainer halves. How the heck did you lose 2 ? Briggs part # 499586. That's gonna cost you $4.50 and comes as 2 keepers and a new spring cap.
    Remove the valve stem seal from the intake valve guide and let's see if the valve guides are a matching set (meaning are they both at equal height from the floor of the head?).
    'nuther photo please.

  • cutngo
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Is the intake on the left?

  • mownie
    10 years ago

    The intake valve is the LARGER of the 2 valves.
    The intake valve is the only valve featuring a rubberized valve stem seal on its valve guide.
    Yes, in your last photo, the intake valve is on the left (unless I transpose the image).

  • cutngo
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    The rubber ripped.

  • mownie
    10 years ago

    I don't see a pair of pliers to grip the valve stem seal in your photo.
    At what point are you referring to the manual? :^)
    You will be needing a new seal anyhow.

    This post was edited by mownie on Sun, Mar 30, 14 at 19:18

  • cutngo
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    This smartphone user ain't too smart. I missed the pliers picture on my little screen. :( Here we GEAUX!

    This post was edited by cutngo on Sun, Mar 30, 14 at 20:02

  • mownie
    10 years ago

    EAUX KAY
    Get yourself a straight edge and a ruler (or 2 rulers as I have mocked up in a photo I borrowed somewhere) and measure down from a straight edge laid across the head (as shown) to the top edge of each valve guide.
    If the 2 measurements are EXACTLY IDENTICAL, the valve guides have not migrated.
    If the distance to one is less than the distance to the other one, the shorter of the 2 values indicates the guide that is loosening and migrating.

  • cutngo
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    We have some migrating going on down south, here! The exhaust side is migrating (the shorter distance). Next?

  • mownie
    10 years ago

    I don't remember if Walt Conner has a fix for loose valve guides.
    I think Walt's fix was for rocker ball studs that back out on some Briggs engines.
    If there is no "field expedient repair" for a loose valve guide, a new head is your option.
    You will need to determine whether this is cylinder #1 or cylinder #2.
    Cylinder #1 is the cylinder that is closest to the flywheel. So you will need to measure that, or determine from the image below.
    Walt may chime in or you may want to e-mail him if he does not jump in on this.

    This post was edited by mownie on Mon, Mar 31, 14 at 1:32

  • cutngo
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Cylinder #2 by that diagram. Hey Walt!

  • MantonJohn
    10 years ago

    The cause of your troubles is that stupid E-Plug!!!! They are the most worthless pieces of chit out there!!!!

  • cutngo
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Hmm, so do you think I have a case? I don't mind contacting them and referring them to this post.

  • bill_kapaun
    10 years ago

    I think E plugs are a scam but-
    EXACTLY HOW did it cause the problem.
    Anybody can pull wild claims out of their ..........
    How about some EVIDENCE!

  • cutngo
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    I think I created a perfect storm. :(

    Poor spark plug choice
    Ethanol infested gasoline
    Dirt dobber encrusted cooling fins
    One pint low on oil

    Anything else?

    So, after I order a new head, do I put it all back together and run it?

    This post was edited by cutngo on Mon, Mar 31, 14 at 21:31

  • walt2002
    10 years ago

    As I said many, many posts back privately to you, your problem was caused by a cooling problem as you have finally shown in pictures. I also pin pointed that you were likely running on one cylinder and how to check that and where to look when you determined that to be the case. I have a proven fix for valve guides that move which I thought I had sent to Mownie a year or so ago. I will send it if requested privately but I am dubious about your ability to utilize it. Your best bet may be to locate a good used head, I sell them for $20 ea. plus shipping but am out.

    Walt Conner

    Your problem was not caused by any spark plug regardless of how much someone may dislike them. I would have no use for them either anyway.

    This post was edited by walt2002 on Mon, Mar 31, 14 at 21:47

  • cutngo
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Looking for a good, used head. Any ideas! "Dubious" was an understatement.

    Also, I'm looking at ~$200 to repair this and replace the mower belt right now. IYHO, would you repair a 10-12 yr. old Craftsman tractor, w/ 407 hrs on it?

  • mownie
    9 years ago

    ***"would you repair a 10-12 yr. old Craftsman tractor, w/ 407 hrs on it?"***
    I dunno, my menagerie includes machines like my wife's 1968 Snapper Comet, my dad's 1986 Snapper RER, my FIL's old 1988 Huskee garden tractor, and my own newest 1994 White Outdoor GT 185. We have various reasons for keeping them all, but sentimental feelings rank high with the first 3.
    A person must become a "care giver" and learn how to develop some useful mechanical skills (and a few tools) if they intend to keep and use older machines.
    One must also develop an appreciation for preventative maintenance procedures and scheduling to keep machines running.
    Too often people don't do much if any preventative maintenance, and then the work falls into the category known as Damage Control. I can tell you as a professional mechanic, there is no control in Damage Control.
    The alternatives are that your pockets must be a little deeper so you can replace machines often, or simply hire out the grounds maintenance to landscaping contractors.

  • cutngo
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I know I created this damage by not maintaining it. I don't mind fixing it, but what could go next? Is there any maintenance for the transmission before it goes out?

    I know how to maintain my car (300,500 miles on original motor and drivetrain) I just neglected the mower.

  • cutngo
    Original Author
    9 years ago
  • tomplum
    9 years ago

    If you are looking for head # 1 , pricing looks good. $88 is list.

  • cutngo
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Head #1 it is. Ordered today. Thanks!

  • mownie
    9 years ago

    How did we go from your identifying the cylinder in the image I posted as Cylinder # 2, to ordering Head # 1?
    In the list of Briggs part numbers that the ebay site shows, it says the head replaces 792299, which is the # 1 head.
    If you identified the cylinder as # 2, then the Briggs number for that head is 792300, and that number is not in the list of heads the ebay head replaces.

  • cutngo
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    It's been a long week. All work and no play makes cutngo a mistake prone boy. Upon further review, it is cylinder #1. Sorry for the confusion.

  • mownie
    9 years ago

    Whew, better a mistaken identity of the cylinder number in this case than the perceived situation of yesterday.
    Sometimes Murphy looks the other way (not often).
    :^)

  • cutngo
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Time to put the sump back on, and the motor back on the tractor. Any words of wisdoms here, other than torqueing sequence? Is any Permatex used on the gasket?

  • tomplum
    9 years ago

    I use Hi-tack myself. Shellac could be fine too. Briggs instructs you to use sealant in areas that may have been marred on clean up. You will want to take the pump cover off and along with that replace the o ring.

  • cutngo
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Sump installed with new seal and O ring. Awaiting new head.

  • cutngo
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Parts are in!! What are these three red rings?

  • tomplum
    9 years ago

    You can hold bunches of broccoli together with these. I've seen it before. Or they double as intake manifold seals....

  • cutngo
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thank you. Will they work for asparagus? I'll be putting the head on tomorrow. Do I put any oil on parts here? ie cylinder walls, valve springs

  • mownie
    9 years ago

    You should put some clean engine oil on the valve stems, the top ends of the valve stems and where the push rods fit to the rocker arms. Also oil the rocker arm pivots themselves. Just a couple of drops at each point mentioned.
    And don't forget to put oil in the crankcase :^)

  • cutngo
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    What is this thing that attaches to the crankshaft? If I attempt to spin it 360* the ears on it hit the front axle.

  • cutngo
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Cranked her up and oil was pouring out of the oil pump circular plate, on the bottom of the engine. I'm not too happy right now.

  • tomplum
    9 years ago

    Forgot an Oring? The PTO clutch should be anchored in place so it does not spin. A bracket is laying around somewhere...

  • cutngo
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    IDK, but I ordered a new plate an o ring today. Can this be changed from underneath? Or do I need to pull the motor again? What bracket are you talking about? Thanks!

  • tomplum
    9 years ago

    The clutch housing locks into a locator bracket which bolts into the frame rail w/ 2 bolts. It is part # 171258 if you don't have one. If you cant see the plate screws, the motor will need to come off. You may find it preferable to do it that way anyways.

  • cutngo
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I think the bracket is there. Is it rod shaped?

    I can see two screws. I was thinking if I unbolted the motor to the frame I could slide it over to the hole in the deck. If I could do that, would I be able to keep what's in there in place, when installing the seal? Or would it be a hassle and a oily mess? I've drained the oil from the drain tube, but I never seem to get much out it.

  • tomplum
    9 years ago

    You can see it if you go to Searspartsdirect and look in the drive section. It is essentially a rod mounted to a plate. Removing the pump cover you will get oil and possibly a pump rotor and shaft in your hand at the same time.

  • mownie
    9 years ago

    How many photos have you taken during your teardown process? Those photos should show you how the PTO clutch and anti-rotation feature were configured.
    Pulling the engine back out will give you some additional (and needed) hands on training.
    Aside from that, my crystal ball looks pretty murky this morning. :^)

  • cutngo
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Just got finished mowing the lawn! Another feather in y'all's cap! I can't thank you enough!!

  • optsyeagle
    9 years ago

    Lawn looks good and only 100 posts.

  • cutngo
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    101, who's counting?

  • tomplum
    9 years ago

    Good deal. Congrats on your success! Gee, you think you'd need chains mowing uphill like that....

  • tomplum
    9 years ago

    I think we can make 200..

  • cutngo
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Hill? What hill? We don't have those things in south Louisiana.

  • mownie
    9 years ago

    No hills? I dunno, that slope looks pretty steep to me.
    Congrats on the rebound.

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