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Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

Posted by jkmc (My Page) on
Mon, Apr 9, 07 at 13:30

Does anyone have experience with the Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine?

It is a twin cylinder with an accordian type air filter that has a no tool air filter cover with tabs and a plastic lever to secure the air filter cover. I am looking at a scag tiger cub with that engine. A kawasaki engine on that same mower will cost an extra $1,000 plus tax. I seem to recall that one of the briggs engines in this size was troublesome.

I would like to know more about this engine before I spend $6000 or $7000 on the mower.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

I am looking at the exact same ZTR. I am not even considering the Briggs engine. The Briggs ELS is a homeowner model (though a better one), and not a Briggs Commercial engine. Briggs doesn't seem to publish the torque numbers for that engine, but I'll bet that the peak torque is less than that of the 19hp Kawasaki Kai.

Keep in mind that the "promo" Tiger Cub also lacks the adjustable sticks, the foldable ROPS, the flat-free front caster tires, and the canister air filter. The upgraded engine isn't the only thing that the extra $1000 buys you, but only you can decide if the extra money will be well spent. For any potential resale situations down the road, especially to commercial operators, those extra features (especially the Kawasaki engine) may be fairly notable items.

In my opinion, for the long term, the extra $1000 is money well spent.

JKG


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

The letters ELS stands for "Extended Life Series", but I believe it is just a standard Intek engine that has had various parts upgraded for improved durabilility and is not not a different design. Some of the technical types know exactly which of the parts get changed out or there may be details on the B&S Website. Occasionally I have seen these show up on the higher-end consumer-grade lawn tractors from places such as Sears. Sears also uses them on some of their ZTR's, for example the current $3299 2690641 Craftsman ZTR uses the same 24 hp ELS Vtwin Briggs I think, as does their $2679 Yard tractor with 54 inch deck model 28750. I presume the mower you are looking at with this engine is a good deal more than $3299.

No one knows exactly by how much B&S thinks the design life in the ELS series is improved relative to a standard Intek, but these often apppear on machines destined for the higher end box store consumer/residential market as opposed to the commercial mowing services. In my mind, an ELS is an upgraded Intek but not up to the level of a more expensive Kohler Command or a Briggs Vanguard. The ELS might cost the manufacturer an extra $50-$100 over a standard Intek whereas a Command or Vanguard would be $200-$300 more than an Intek, and the Kawasaki perhaps as much as $500 more. I'm guessing here but am probably close given how retail prices vary with different engines.

Generally when I walk into Sears, Lowes or HD I do not see Kawasaki engines populating the retail floor space. In terms of the general quality/durability pecking order, I think most of the guys here would rank a Kawasaki as a little above a Kohler Command or Briggs Vanguard, also now seen mainly on commercial-grade ZTRs and the higher-end lines from companies like Deere (above the LA series). Briggs ELS is below that in a separate category, then the Ineks and Kohler Courages in a third, average residential homeowner subcategory.

These designations and labels come and go. My lowly $879 1995 MTD Yard Machines has a 11.5 hp Briggs I/C engine, the I/C standing for Industrial/Commercial. I will say this, that engine has been trouble-free and has taken a real beating over the years. There were some key differences between the I/C design relative to the basic Briggs at the time, but now I think all the Inteks incorporate what were once the unique I/C design features.

The ELS might do well for you as well, but keep in mind that same engine is on a $3299 Sears ZTR.

David


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Pecking Order within Briggs

In looking at the Briggs site, the I/C designation is still around
The Pecking order appears to be
Basic Engine: PowerBuilt Basic design through 13.5 hp Single cyl no cast iron cyl liners

I/C Standard engine Single and Vtwin no filter, cast iron cyl liners bronze upper bearing avail thru 22 hp. I believe the Briggs used on Deere LA 100 is an I/C version as it has no filter.Full pressure lube

Intek Single & Vtwin with Oil Filter up to 22 hp.

ELS Up to 25 hp, various design upgrades still bronze upper bearing
All of the above are variations on the same design with assorted parts changed out.

Vanguard Commercial Quality Ball PTO bearing, Different design entirely


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

Over the past several years, there have been few complaints on the Briggs V-twin - on this board. As I recall, some engines on Craftsman mowers failed because the air cleaner housing warped - allowing unfilter air into the engine. Comments indicated Craftrsman warranted the engines and replacement engines had a redesigned air filter housinig tha solved the problem. Other than that - seldon see complaints.

The Kawasaki is probable the most common engine on the premium commercial equipment. The operators are probably not the owners and are not likely to comment on this board.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

My 2005 Husqvarna blew up its Briggs 24hp ELS at 80 hours. The engine was replaced under warranty. I was very dilligent in my scheduled oil changes. The repair technition mentioned the same thing larryf did - likley the air filter design was allowing unfiltered air to contaminate the engine. The new engine has a different filter design so that would seem to confirm this.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

I've been looking at the JD LA120 with Vtwin 21 hp. Does anyone know if it has the ELS engine ? I know the engine is built to JD specs but can't find any info on it, even the JD dealer don't know.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

I think that's more or less considered a standard Intek built to whatever the Deere LA-120 spec code calls for. Keep in mind that Deere could easily spec an Intek code with Briggs that includes some features normally found only on ELS engines, or not. Indeed they claim specs like super polished crankshaft different from a "garden variety" Intek on a tractor sold by "sniff" Sears. You would first need the spec code from the Deere speced engine and then start digging through parts numbers one at a time to see whether they are consistent with an ELS or a standard Intek.
This is a variation on the old Kohler Command versus Command Pro engine discussion long debated here.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

jkmc, I have the 24HP ELS engine on my ZT7000 ZTR, and after the first 60 hours the engine sounded like a diesel engine, it had the according flat style air filter and it leaked contaminated air very badly. The engine was replaced by B/S dealer with a new designed air filter housing using a barrow shaped cartridge air filter which has a round shaped seal that makes a very good seal on the intake elbow, no contaminated air leakage with this new designed air filter housing. So if it has the flat according style filter housing, I would suspect that it will leak contaminated air after a few hours use, JMHO.

Dan


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

I have the 25 HP ELS from 2003, which has about 75 hours on it. It's run flawlessly, and now I am worried when I read these posts. What exactly am I looking for in the filter? If I change it, will it make it worse?


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

Count me in too. I have a 2005 Sears GT5K with the B/S 24 ELS twin with about 50 hours on it. Haven't had any problems yet, but if I do I want them before the warranty runs out next year.

What do you look for, or does it just shut down??


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

I have a 3 year old 21 hp B&S that at 70 hours started smoking and at 78 hours is now burning 1 qt of oil every 1.5 hours. The shop says the rings are shot and will need a rebuild at my expense. They state the air intake as the original issue. After paying over $1500 for an ELS engine and getting only 3 seasons of mowing...it will be a cold day before Briggs and Stratton gets another penny of my money. Buy anything else.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

mowerdan - do you have a picture of what the new filter and opening looks like?? That might be very helpful to those of us that are just waiting to possibly get screwed over by Sears and others. Hopefully not.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

duke88

The engine series # stamped on the engine id sticker on the JD LA 110 - 150 match what is shown as B&S standard Intek line. I was/am comparing the LA 130 vs. the DGS6500 # 28750. ie the intek vs the els. I bet the JD is just a standard intek as far as durability. But if the els has dirty intake air it can't be any better than the intek or even as good.

What to look for on the redesigned intake assemble I would like to know also.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

I have a 22hp B&S ELS 656 Cu. In. in a 2002 Craftsman DLT2000 with a little over 200 hrs with absolutely no problems. My understanding in reading the blurb from B&S on the ELS engine, it has an additional pre-airfilter over the normal air filter and a 35% larger bearing on the output end of the crankshaft. (PTO end) other than those 2 items B&S makes no claims over the Intek engine.
I fully expect to run mine another 400 hrs before selling the tractor (approx 8 more yrs). That should give the second owner several hrs of engine life - - -
I wish I could say the same for the 17 hp Kawasaki in the JD GT275, have had it in the shop several times - charging circuit twice, carb and fuel system problem once, not to mention 2 new PTO clutches. All after the warranty expired. But I am hoping that it will be gone this year. Replaced by a Scag Tiger Cub or a Country Clipper. Zturn


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

would you believe a 656 cu cm


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

Ever since I read "ELS" on an engine,I had wondered what is the meaning? What was the originial engines lifetime,in hours,I presume,before it was "extened?Extened to WHAT,and again in how many hours.Why aren't the engines manufactured for an ELS to start with.I have several decades old engines that are running as good as when new. I wonder if they are ELS without the now fashionable a ELS decal affixed? Wonder when automobiles will come out with poor,fair, good,better,and best quality decals?


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

It makes no sense to me why manufacturers of ZTR mowers are now putting residential grade engines in a commercial chassis . They're probably noticing a trend by homeowners towards these machines and are trying to reach a lower pricepoint to intice homepowners to buy them . Just two years ago I saw a new Scag ZTR with a Honda engine selling for 6K , although it may have been an 04 leftover . My advice , before spending 7k on the Kawasaki powered Tiger Cub I'd look around for an 06 leftover for a discount on price to get a Kawasaki powered machine for hundreds less than the 7k price of a 07 model .


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

Since this topic is floating around again, am I to assume that other Craftsman ELS 24hp air intake problems have surfaced?? I'd be very interested in knowing if they are since I have the tech coming out next week to check another problem I have with my GT. Thanks, guys.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

  • Posted by jimtnc 7b NC TTTF (My Page) on
    Tue, May 22, 07 at 13:15

C'mon folks. Gotta be someone out there with something new.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

Obviously no one has this problem.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

I have this engine on my Husqvarna. I'll NEVER buy another one! After Briggs replaced the first one due to the crappy filter system, the new ELS engine is already knocking! It ran fine the first few hours when we got it back. But now when you engage the blades (all the way up I maight add) it starts to knock really really bad and then starts to stall. I thought maybe it was somewhere in the mower deck. We found nothing. And then tonight as I was reving up the engine alittle, I could hear it knock then. Sooooooo......back to the shed it goes until Monday. Then it's back on the phone to Lowes again! We've had nothing but problems with this mower since we bought it 2 years ago. I can understand why people are turning Japanese!


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

Ya know fellas, I really have a hard time with these air
filter leak stories destroying engines in 60-70 hrs...
Looks to me like some folks must have some mighty dirty
air where they live.. Or somebody is being fed a line of
BS to cover for some basic problem... I've only been
mowing for about 60 years now, and a lot of the old
mowers I've used never had any air filters on them, and
they worked fine for years !!! My recently retired 39
yr old GT with a 12 HP Tecumseh hasn't even had an air
filter on it for the last 25 years !!!!an it still runs
and works just about as well as when I bought it in 1968...
Its mowing function has been taken over by a ZTR,
but it still does the snow-blowing around here... Sorry,
I'm just not buying the leaky air filter tale...
Paul R...


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

well w3nzl.....facts are facts. If you'd seen the inside of this engine once they tore it down, you'd change your mind. That and the "well engineered" filter system they put on the first engine. Not sure about everywhere else but, here in Georgia, it's been very very dry and dusty. This Georgia red clay is a real pain in the you know what! Yes.....we have some very dirty air out here. Constantly cleaning the filter. But this brand new ELS engine probably has less than 10 hours on it and it's already knocking! The oil still looks like new. Not looking forward to this phone call to Lowes.....again!


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

Well GaJohn, all I can say is that I hope Ur not naive
enough to believe that the airfilter destroyed this one
too... Afterall one would assume that any airfilter
problem would have been corrected on the first go-round..
Think somebody better start looking for the disease, and
stop treating the symptoms... That airfilter tale is
pure BS...
Paul R...


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

gajohn, I seriously doubt this is typical. 10 hours is simply not enough time for a breach in the induction system to result in the kind of wear/damage it takes to make a "knock". I would not rule out the possibility that someone at the shop where the engine was replaced, may have cranked and run the new engine without filling the crankcase first. If that occurred, 10 hours or less is about right for latent damage to manifest itself. We would be very interested in the outcome of your knock issue. Why don't you post a separate thread devoted to this issue when you get some kind of answer (or excuses).


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

W3nzl....uh no, I'm not that niave. But the dust DID destroy the first engine. And from what the guy at Briggs & Stratton told me, it surely wasn't the first one from this filter problem. But this second engine problem is something else. It's a very loud knocking when you put the engine under a load such as engaging the blades or just reving up the engine with the blades off. Lowes has a call into the shop that replaced the first engine. They're suppose to call me back this week sometime. This engine looked brand new. But I wonder if it could be a rebuild? I'm sure glad I took out the extended warranty. I think next time, I'll buy a lawn tractor at a dealer that repairs what they sell. Like John Deere. Not Lowes or Home Depot. Father inlaw says it sounds like a wrist pin with this new engine that's making the knocking. Can't wait to see what they find. Keep ya posted. ~J~


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

I'm having a similar problem with my ELS725 engine/ Husqvarna YTH2448 to what some others have described. In only two dusty mowing seasons but less than 50 hrs. use, it started smoking so badly this year that I placed a warranty call on it to Sears. (The DAY before the warranty expired. . .whew!)
Anyway, a new (actually rebuilt at the Sears rebuild center in Garland Texas) engine is sitting in my garage, and the repairman is coming to install it tomorrow. I'll see what he says about the background of this situation. My original setup has the flat cartridge air filter. It wound up burning oil incredibly; within a couple of hours of that trend appearing, I got a sound like a bucket of bolts was rattling inside the engine. (That, by the way, was after the warranty call, approval of new engine, and the repairman leaving word for us to go on using it until he could install the new engine.)
Although I wasn't at home when the repairman came on my warranty call, I'd left a written history of services & basic troubleshooting I'd performed. He read that, made a brief inspection, and approved a new (rebuilt, but with new warranty) engine at no cost to me. That indicates to me that Sears/Briggs & Stratton are seeing this problem recur on a regular enough basis that they didn't waste time approving the fix.
Will let you all know what happens tomorrow. I've had good experiences with many B&S mowers, pressure washers, etc. but this is my first lawn tractor. I'm hoping the problem is something they figured out how to fix, and wonder if the rebuild process is modifying all damaged engines to a new standard.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

Looks like this has become an epidemic with this engine! The repair shop called about mine earlier this week. Said they couldn't hear the knocking. Wife told them to take it out and try to mow some grass, let it warm up a bit. They called back the next day and said, the mower has "Internal Engine Problems." No kidding! They continue to put this same engine on.....what next???? What's going on with these B&S engines??????


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

I would think if you had one of these engines with the bad air intake system you could remove the air filter housing and see if any dust is getting into the carb.? If the inside of the carb is dirty you can beat the engine is sucking in the dust. In dry conditions there is enough dust to ruin and engine in 70 hours that for sure. That usually almost or over two years of operation on most lawns. About right after the warranty runs out IMO... Take the crap off and look in see if it's getting contaminated if so you need to call in before the warranty runs out beings this is a known problem.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

rcmoser....I did this with the second engine. The new and improved air intake system seems to have helped. But.....this new second engine has started to knock for some reason. I'm wondering if I were to call Briggs & Stratton. But I'm sure they'd give me some line of crap. I thought maybe I'd just gotten a lemon. But from all these posts here, it doesn't look like it. Meanwhile....my yard looks like a jungle.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

Me thinks that Briggs does the warranty work or replacement on Briggs engines not Sears, same for Kohler.
Still say don't pass the crap that you are being fed.
But, maybe Sears has a contract to rebuid engines for Briggs? Somehow that doesn't sound right but maybe it is.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

gajohn, I live in an area were it is very dusty during the summer months, and yes my engine with the according style air filter housing, with the yellow clamp leaked contaminated air constantly. I called the B/S tech center and they told me to call a B/S dealer in my area to have it checked out, well to make a long story short, they, B/S and the B/S dealer agreed that the engine needed to be replaced. It was replaced with an engine with the new designed air filter housing, instead of the old style according air filter it has a round oblong shaped air filter opened at one end and seals completely around the intake elbow of the carb. The new air filter hasn't leaked in 20 hours of dusty mowing and the engine runs fine, no more power loss.

My advice to you is to call the B/S tech center and let them know about all the problems you are having and find a good reliable B/S service center to fix your engine are replace it. It took me about three months to get my problem fixed and a lot of calls to the B/S tech center before they finally replaced my engine, just don't let them off the hook and keep after them.

Dan


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

I have a Husq 2148 that is 3.5 yrs old. Changed oil every season, always checked the air filter and oil level before every run. The 21 HP ELS Briggs threw a rod this season at 130 hrs. I never liked that flimsy yellow air filter clasp on the engine - maybe there is something to all these stories. I know one thing, I am staying away from the els engine. I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water and say that I'll never buy another briggs, but I wouldn't buy this engine again. I also read someone claiming that this is all BS because he ran an older engine with no air filter for years. Is it possible newer engines have much tighter tolerances requiring much better filtration?


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

Well, gang, I wish I could say my problem is fixed, but I can't! The Sears guy installed the Sears-rebuilt engine last Monday. He was knowledgeable & proficient, and said he'd done somewhere between 20-50 of these engine replacements; the good news was, he'd never had to go back to the same customer. Moral of the story: the redesigns had fixed the problems. One, which he said was fixed early on in the life of this engine, was the head gasket--I think they weren't torquing bolts tightly enough. The other was the air filter failing to seal.
So, on my new/rebuilt engine, I was interested to see a completely redesigned air filter housing with two wing-nut style closures on top and a friction fit filter inside. Looked pretty good, and ran well the moment he had it installed. I commented on the fact that he was able to get 72 oz. of oil into it, rather than the nominal 64. . . .
Now here's the BAD NEWS: I mowed my lawn Friday--4 days after the new engine was installed--and the engine ran GREAT. After 1.5-2.0 hrs. or so, I got down to hitch up my dump cart to haul mulch. . .and noticed a huge grassy buildup right under the engine, where grass had never built up before. I knew at first glance that it was loaded with oil, because it was dark, and touch/smell verified that. I pulled the dipstick and it did not even register any oil in the crankcase! From 72 ounces down to zilch. . . ? I didn't see any leak around the oil filter, or around the drain plug, and dashed inside to call Sears since it was already almost 5:00.
The 6 August appointment will replace the engine, because I contacted the Sears repairman at his home (nice guy!) and he's getting his parts guy to go ahead and order me a new engine now, rather than dragging out the normal timeline of appointment--assessment--order--arrival--appointment--installation. He said it sounds like an oil pan seal is the problem.
Guess we'll see! I've got an inquiry in at the B&S site to see if they'll 'fess up on known design problems with that engine. I also wonder if they pay attention to Sears' rebuild center efforts, since the B&S name is at stake.
My bottom lines: B&S equipment has always done a good job for me, and I really like this tractor & its engine, EXCEPT the original engine had a major design flaw (?) and the rebuild seems to have had a major quality control issue in the rebuild process. I hope they square this away before they beat the brand loyalty out of me! Hope the next engine has a low-oil cutoff switch!
Wish me luck, and I'll keep y'all posted from down here in Dixie.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

takeiteasy, I tend to regard such claims of running without air filters and causing no harm as mere gossip (or bold face LIES) in most cases. About the only setting where an engine could survive without air filtration would be in a marine environment where little airborne dust/grit was present. Also, how many people do think would say "I ran my engine without the air filter and after 25 hours it was a worthless pile of junk."?? The tolerances of the engine components are about the same as they were 50 or more years ago (because that's what it takes to function as an engine). Air filters (and other filters) came to be as a result of the necessity to keep the abrasive stuff out of the engine (or other unit) in order to have an acceptable life span.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

Also have similar problem. Husqvarna 2448. Noticed sound like screw loose in engine. Noise stopped, but significantly less power. It stalls in high grass that it used to cut through easily. Changed oil, clean air filter, plugs OK, deck good (new primary deck belt). No improvement and it's 2 months past warrany. Suggestions?
Thank you.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

"Suggestions?"

Kawasaki, Honda, Kohler...


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

Shop finally called today. Said the knocking and loss of power in my new (second) engine was caused by a loose head bolt. A brand new engine with 4-5 hours on it. What the heck is going on with Brigg's quality today???? I call them to gripe about it. They tell me to call Husqvarna. I call Husqvarna and they tell me to call Briggs. Like I said before.....thank God I bought Lowe's extended service warranty! Can't wait to see what happens next in the next two years.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

Update on my engine. They we're going to just tighten the headbolts but decided to replace the head. That was earlier this week. The mower was suppose to be done today. Well, they called today and said the head was on "indefinite backorder" from Briggs. Meanwhile, my grass is up to you know where! This must be happening alot if it's on indefinite backorder. I'm debating wether I should call Lowes and gripe at them to get someone out here to cut my grass!!!! This is really ridiculous!


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

gajohn,
According to Lowes extended service plan - they will cut your grass if needed and if the problem is not resolved in 3 try's the unit will be replaced.
Doesn't sound like griping would be necessary - just go in with the extended service plan you bought in hand and ask for them to honor it.
I'm sure you will let us know how you come out.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

Yikes...my mowers are all from 1986- 1990 vintage. they have from 450 - 1050 hours on them... and I have almost no engine issues to speak of at all. I am running horizontally opposed 18 and 20 horsepower kohler magnums... and based on reading this series of posts... I am really happy that I like older equipment.

The one briggs vertical twin vanguard is running great ... replacing the starter was lots of fun and required special tools... but was a 100 dollar job that I did in a hour...


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

gajohn,
How did you come out on the Lowes Extended Warranty? The voltage regulator just failed on my 22 hp ELS last Thur 8/8/07. Got a new one off ebay $44.55 including shipping, recieved and installed it 8/11/07 everything working well again. Oh, 1/2 hr to troubleshoot it, 10 min to replace it.
Been very hot here but yard is irrigated so have to continue to mow - I think the heat is what killed the regulator. BTW the way the engine now has 211 hrs on it first problem I experienced with it, 5 + years.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

"Basic Engine: PowerBuilt Basic design through 13.5 hp Single cyl no cast iron cyl liners"

Well this doesn't have anything to do with the real conversation here but the above statement is not true.

Walt Conner


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

It's Aug. 24th and my mower's still in the shop awaiting a new head from Briggs!!!! The Lowes Extended Warranty gives you $25 towards someone coming to mow your grass for ya. But who's gonna mow almost 8 acres for $25???? She did mention that they will sometimes give you a loaner. They've still not called me back on that yet. I outa trade the damn thing in on a John Deere or maybe a Toro!


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

"The one briggs vertical twin vanguard is running great"

That's easy to understand. The only thing Briggs about those engines is the nameplate. The rest is Daihatsu...


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

gajohn, you've be struggling with this Husqvarna going on the 2nd month - $25.00 doesn't seem like much help on mowing even on .8 acre let alone 8 acres. The amount of time in the repair shop without a resolution to the issue seems rather excessive also, Time to have a serious talk with Lowes about the extended service plan. (Don't know what you paid, hope not much cause you didn't get much).
But in all - about 8 acres with a residential mower is expecting alot also - You should be looking at a good commercial unit. I would recomend a good Zturn many different brands available.
You have cleared up buying extended warranty's from Lowes, thanks for that and good luck to you on dealing with Lowes Warranty.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

I really love those two words "indefinite backorder" ya know that? Yes, my mower is still in the shop. Maybe I'll have it back by Christmas? I'm never ever gonna buy another Briggs engine again if I can help it that's for damn sure!!!!! One one thing though. This is strike two. One more problem and I'll be getting a brand new mower from them!!!!! Gee......think it'll make it another two more years????


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

Just wanted to post my experience with 4 year old Craftsman 3000 mower and the air filter. I live in an area where there is a need to mulch and bag leaves which causes a lot of dust. I have the habit of cleaning air filter each time I mow, but with this machine I noticed a tendency to let dirt into the throat of the carb intake. As time went on the problem got worse and I inquired about modifying the air intake which always seemed inadequate with its plastic housing. I made sure that the filter was seated each time I put it on. No help from anyone at Sears as most units at that time had the same air filter design. The engine, a Kohler twin 23 hp began to smoke and I suspected the rings were going and after checking the plugs noted they were oil soaked and fouled. I replaced the engine recently but I have a hard time believing that a better more effective air filter system would not have prevented this problem completely. I have engines that work in the dirt and dust every season, many much older than this Craftsman but they have cartridge filters that were well designed. It would seem that we have traded functional good sense for sleek, cute riding toys.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

I bought a used 2005 Husqvarna 2448 with the ELS engine - at 80 hours it promptly decided to start using oil just as others have described. I'm looking for a replacement engine but wanted to know two things - First, where is the tag on the motor with serial # and other info? and 2) does anyone have a recommendation for replacing it with a different engine?
thanks,


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

This is an interesting thread.

Ive been working on lawnmower engines since I was a young boy - my neighbor was an old man who had a lawn equipment repair shop - taught me most of what I know (with regards to engine small engine repair).

Over the years ive seen a LOT of abused equipment (im sure others of you have also). Clogged air filters, BLACKend oil - in general poor maintenance ...

A lot of these older machines needed a little bit of love to bring them right back into service - and running strong again. (some of them died on the bench).

But with the constant revolving door of people having these long standing quality control issues ... I am convinced through statistics (not opinions) that there is something more to it than just an air filter issue.

I do not discount the dusty Georgia air or warped Air Filter housings ... but there simply is more to it than an air filter defect. I use my equipment rather hard - in dusty conditions and I happen to have several different mowers (for a plan B - if needed). I happen to have a 10 year old 20hp Intek which I am rather pleased with - runs great (i hope i didnt jinx it)

But I think Briggs and other American companies - perhaps even a few car companies are in the mode of QUANTITY not quality... (you and I both know its true - and yes the truth hurts).

... and we all know what happens when quantity comes first... and for those who dont - this leaves the consumer wanting to buy into hollow reputations associated with days long gone. That or the consumer buys his product from someone - even if it comes from a land very far away.

In my opinion - Briggs and Kohler (and Ford GM Chrysler ...) should be embarrassed... Its understandable that a manufacture would have a bad run. But to NEVER re-design / produce and a product that completes (forget about beats !) with the likes of our Japanese/Chinese competition and their "reputation" is completely unacceptable.

Gentlemen (and female readers as well) I submit to you - that we (the American consumer) have been sold down the river by those who care more about profit margins and how well we did this quarter on the stock market. By the way - those people don't actually tend to their own lawns - so they wouldn't have a clue as to what were talking about here.

My friends - we have met the enemy and HE is US. So how do we actually fix this problem... Do we complain about the air filter housing... Or do we go back to the manufacturer(s) and tell them its time to step up to the plate and build a competitive product (or better yet - a better product) than our competition... Maybe we can even put a little sticker on it that says something like "Proudly made 100% in the USA"... Wouldn't that be nice ?

I wonder - If I lived in Japan/China ... If i would actually be interested in purchasing one of those sought after ford focus's/chevy Aveo5's, or even a lawn mower powered by B&S ...

I'm certain it is NOT the air filter housing ...

good luck to you - in your future purchases of amerikan produkts.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

Help My 2006 48in Husqvarna blew up its Briggs 24hp ELS - It threw a rod, Briggs and Stratton are telling me I must pay for the replacment engine which is less than 2 years old. It was very well maintained, service, oil changes, and always topped off fluid and kept the filters clean.

This was also purchaed by @ Lowes.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

""The one briggs vertical twin vanguard is running great""

"That's easy to understand. The only thing Briggs about those engines is the nameplate. The rest is Daihatsu..."

Well of course that is not so. It may be true of the block, crank, heads.

"Briggs and Stratton are telling me I must pay for the replacment engine which is less than 2 years old."

As I have told others, contact the Consumer Protection Section of your State Attorney General's Office and tell them your story. Have times, people's names (if possible) results. Be sure you are dealing only with the facts. There is no cost in our state and it is affective.

Walt Conner


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

Mike-
If you are sure that you have always had oil in the engine -make sure that an engine failure analysis is done. Torn down, the engine will tell its story. These do blow if run low on oil. They will know if a lack of lube condition existed. If there was an assembly issue, one would think it would have reared its ugly head by now. If the dealer is not co-operative and you are certain you have a case, move further up the food chain. Our B&S distributor never had a problem with the analysis. Take what walt said as gospel as well. No business wants to be involved on the wrong side with an AG case. Maybe they would negotiate. Sometimes that is the only way to get things done.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

I just crossed the 300 hour mark (304.x) with no additional problems on my 22 hp ELS B&S. 2002 Craftsman DLT2K is still running well. I did replace the blades again this year, purchased the adjacent property and now have additional 1/2 acre to mow. Hours are adding up a little quicker now.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

I bought my Huskee 50" 25HP ELS in 2004. Each spring, I buy
a B&S tune-up kit from Tractor Supply that consists of an
oil filter and oil, air filter and pre-filter, fuel filter,
and two spark plugs. All that maintenance takes less than
an hour to perform. After 230 hours, the engine is still
running fine. I've had some mechanical issues with the
tractor itself, like the pinion gear and hex bearing that
I just replaced on the end of the steering shaft, and one
of the deck lift cables broke last year, but other than
a deck belt and blades, this machine has performed pretty
well, seeing that I mow 3 acres each time I pull it out
of the garage. If I consider a 42" cutting swath, I figure
that I travel a distance of 6.5 miles each time I cut the
yard. At 2 miles an hour, that comes out to a total
distance of roughly 500 miles of service. Not bad for
$1800.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

"Basic Engine: PowerBuilt Basic design through 13.5 hp Single cyl no cast iron cyl liners"

This appeared "way back there". At least part of the Power Built engines had a cast iron liner. I am not aware of any B&S engine over 11 hp built without a cast iron cylinder liner and I have done a lot of engine rebuilding for many years. The only difference between them and the "I/C" was usually the trim.

"Vanguard Commercial Quality Ball PTO bearing,"

The Vanguards I worked on had plain bearings.

While the Kawas. are highly toughted, some of them at least had a plastic camshaft gear that fails prematurely.

Walt Conner


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

Here is a follow up to my story - I was told that because my property had multiple inclines that this was the culprit to my engine failure. Lack of lubrication to the top of the top of the engine.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

Mike, Still sounds like an engine problem. As long as your weren't rolling it over due to incline and you kept oil level up. Poor lube system design. B&S is BS in this case. Sorry you had this happen to you.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

One person was able to retrofit the air filter cover with this screw-type. Parts are under $100 at various distributors. Unfortunately, the ste is blocked from me posting the link. Engine pdf diagram 446700:

Blower housing - 790692
Intake Elbow - 691011


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

I have a 1-year-young GT with the 24HP B&S ELS - newer style (dual) filter (oval shape, friction seal, wingnuts). About 90 hours on the motor and runs ridiculously well & strong. I maintain the motor quite frequently.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

Now check this out. I emailed Briggs for the retrofit parts. I told them I had about 100 hours in 6 years, and want to purchase the parts to make sure the engine does not fail because of this. Parts would be about $100-$125. Today, they email me to tell me while there is no retrofit, the engineers said the parts should fit and work. Then the icing. They would send the part at no charge! Hell, not bad since I offered to purchase them!


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

I bought a Snapper 50" zero turn radius with a 24 hp B&S just under 2 years ago. The warranty has one month left on it. I have always kept the maintenance up according to the B&S owners manual. My wife took the mower out last Saturday to mow our yard while I did some repair to our house. She made it about 100 feet and the mower quit running and wouldn't restart. I took it to the Western Auto store where I purchased it to have it repaired. I got a call from the store today and the engine has a broken rod. I was told that the warranty wouldn't cover it because it had a dirty air filter. I am to meet with the B&S rep in a few days. I am not familiar with any thing mechanical. I was hoping someone here would have some advice or some statistics to help win my argument with this rep.I know that from what I have been reading here and else where that I am not responsible or this. It has to be a flaw with this B&S motor. Not only are people having the same issues the 24 hp, but some of the other larger ones also. I would be very grateful for any help anyone could give me.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

I don't know what else to add other than what you've read. Have them show you the filter and the dirt it ingested. The air horn of the carb should be dirty. Obviously, an air filters job is to stop the dirt if it was a Briggs filter with an air filter cover that actually made the seal I'd think you have a case- unless it was super dirty. We know they know they have an issue. And you are w/in the warranty period. Bring repair orders, documentation (even a notebook w/ dates hours etc) on maintenance done. Let us know what happens. Maybe even start a new thread!


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

I have a Husqvarna YTH2448 lawn tractor. It's 3 years old with 220 hours on it. It's recently started leaking oil, which appears to be coming from the seam in the engine just above the oil drain. It's a steady leak, but the oil level doesn't seem to drop (according to the dip stick).

Any ideas on the likely cause and fix?


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

***"I have a Husqvarna YTH2448 lawn tractor. It's 3 years old with 220 hours on it. It's recently started leaking oil, which appears to be coming from the seam in the engine just above the oil drain. It's a steady leak, but the oil level doesn't seem to drop (according to the dip stick).
Any ideas on the likely cause and fix?"***
First idea: Create a new thread of your own to spotlight YOUR present problem.
Second idea: Post the engine model number and type number in your opening post to the new thread. Both numbers will be found on the engine, both numbers will consist of 6 characters (may have letters and numerals).
Posting new problems concerning different machines is best done by making a new thread for the new issue. We want to help with your problem, we just want a new thread which covers YOUR problem only, we don't want to have to wade through a 2 year span of posts to get to the latest.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

My 2005 Husqvarna blew its Briggs 24hp ELS engine at 139 hours. Just my luck that it was out of warranty. :(

When I checked, the oil was a bit low, but I had just changed the Oil & Filter and cleaned the air filter the week prior. I've read that there have been some problems with the Air Filter not working properly on this engine, and it can get pretty dusty near the trees in my backyard. However if it was the low oil, you would think that a mower in the $1500 to $2000 range would have an engine equipped with a low oil sensor.

I went back and bought a Toro Timecutter Z-5030 with a Kohler Courage 23HP engine.

I am 50 years old and have had 4 tractor mowers in the past 32 years. The two that had Kohler Command engines that I have had were used for 15 and 10 years respectively. One on a Wheel Horse and the other on a Craftsman. The tractors fell apart long before the Kohlers ever did and those engines were still going when I gave them away to friends. The two Briggs & Stratton engines blew up within 4 years ea.

Basically, I am done with Briggs, and will stick with the Kohler as far as gas engines are concerned.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

***"However if it was the low oil, you would think that a mower in the $1500 to $2000 range would have an engine equipped with a low oil sensor."***
Well, most people (same as you) would not pay the higher cost of a low oil sensor. Briggs as well as other makes offer low oil protection systems for their engines.
Do you care to make a guess as to how many people opt for getting that feature installed on their new machine?
You did get Oil Sentry option with your new Z, right?


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

I bought a 33" Snapper RER with a 14 HP B&S in 2000. The second time I used it in 2001, there was a knock from the crankcase. This mower and engine had been meticulously maintained, and I immediately shut it down. Being under warranty, I called the dealer. They came and picked it up, and thus began a six-week ordeal which I consider primarily the dealer's fault. Their mechanic said the camshaft was wiped out, so he ordered the parts to repair it. Then they said there was a problem with the carburetor, which they ordered and replaced; more delays. Then the mechanic's wife fell ill, so he was out for over a week. Next, every time the engine was started, it stripped the flywheel key. At my increasing insistence, and after I spoke with/complained to the B&S person responsible for service in my area, they finally replaced the engine with a 15.5 HP B&S Diamond I/C, #28N707. I estimate this engine now has at least 1,000 hours on it, and it has been an absolute jewel. Smooth, powerful, zero problems, zero oil consumption. All I've done are regular oil changes and a few sparkplug and air filter changes.

Some of the zinc phosphorous compounds have been removed from motor oils starting roughly 10 years ago. These compounds greatly increased the shear strength of the oil film, and at this point their replacements aren't as good. Automobile camshafts in particular had a problem without the zinc phosphorous, which is why even minivan engines have roller lifters. I'd be very interested in knowing what was causing the knocking in all of the above engines.

Starting this year, I've been using 30-wt diesel oil in all of my four-cycle yard equipment engines. The zinc phosphorus has not been removed from diesel oils, and so far, everything is running well.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

I purchased a new 24hp husqvarna with 48"deck. After 88hrs, the engine seized (B&S claims lack of oil) $1200 engine, after 90hrs, started smoking and losing power, then head gasket blew, still in the shop. They are replacing valves etc.....they have no logical answer for the equipment failure. I service the engine regularly, i too suspect the air filtration system.
Say goodbye to B&S


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

I have a one year old Craftsman riding mower with the 24hp Briggs engine and am having starting problems. The only way I can get the engine to start is by spraying starting fluid into the intake, then the engine will start and will restart again on its own as long as it doesnt sit too long. But if it sits overnight, it will not restart without starting fluid. Fuel tank is full and fuel filter is new. Any suggestions?


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

kevin, if my suggestion does not help you, please create a new thread of your own for continuance of addressing this problem.
Briefly, difficult cold starts that can be improved by use of externally added, extra fuel (the starter fluid) indicate that either too much air, or too little fuel, is available to the engine.
In your case, this sounds like it is "too much air", because once you get it started up and running, it will restart, and you do not complain of power loss (which would be the case if too little fuel were the cause).
Check the operation and adjustment of the choke and choke controls to ensure that the choke flapper is closing completely. If it is not closing fully, repair or adjust until it does close.
And quit using ether based starting fluid in this engine.
Better to use spray carburetor cleaner as it is less apt to harm the engine.
Save your ether for your diesel powered truck.


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Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

i too have a husky with a 24hp b&s. ive been a mechanic for 9 years. my engine started smoking under loads and would get worse the more the engine warmed up. its got about 300 hours on it. tearing the engine down now, found oil in the top of the cylinders. at first i thought it was a bad head gasket and it was sucking oil from the oil galley into the cylinder. but since the lubrication is a splash lube system this doesnt seem right too much smoke and oil to be sucking from the galleys. then i rotated the crank to look at the cylinder walls and noticed the piston wouldnt even swipe the oil away. BAD RINGS. going to rebuild the engine from the bottom up now. ALL YOU GUYS ARE ONTO SOMETHING....GARBAGE. NOTHING IS BUILT QUALITY ANYMORE JUST AS CHEAP AS POSSIBLE. B&S SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES. SOME CEO IN AN OFFICE DECIDED HIS BONUS WAS MORE IMPORTANT THAN PUTTING CHROMOLY RINGS IN A MOTOR. SO WE GET THE SHAFT. The only way to protect yourself is to educate yourself. good luck to all you weekend mechanics.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

i have an oil leak that appears to me to be coming from the mounting bolt that holds the engine to the frame. sitting on the mower it is the left front engine mounting bolt and oil appears to be coming up from the bolt. is it possible that there is a crack in the sump next to the bolt?


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

cewalw,

Yes, that leak could be coming from a cracked sump. But, it just might be a bad sump gasket. I had a bad sump gasket that got worse over time (years). Clean everything up very well and look for where the oil is actually coming from. I just might be seeping down from the sump gasket area (probably near a sump bolt) to the mounting bolt.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

Hi all,

I'm not mechanically inclined, so if you could give me some thoughts on what has happened I would appreciate it much.

I have a Craftsman Pro Lawn Tractor, it has the B&S 24 hp ELS V-Twin with a 24" cut, that I just use here at home,(2 Acres) I've had it about 2 maybe 2.5 years and it is out of warranty.

I was riding it from the garage to the yard (blades were not engaged yet) when a very loud pop happened and it died. After that, when I tried to restart it, the motor just turns but it will not start as if something in the engine broke.....

I DO think this is MY fault (and I'm embarrassed to say this), but I think I was low on oil - could you give me a suggestion as to what may have broke, due to my ignorance, so I can at least have some idea of what to tell someone it may need when I try to find someone to give me an estimate to repair it?

BTW, I live in a rural area and do not have any authorized B&S centers within approx. 80 miles of me (Sears store is about 58 mile away too).

One last thing, I have always put new oil and filter, and air filter on it each year, and last year I put a new spark plug on it in addition to the other maintenance - I have tried to keep it running well, but this year I just made a MAJOR/stupid mistake that is gonna cost me.........

Thanks for any suggestions guys (and ladies) :-)


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

***"I think I was low on oil"***
Absolutely, and I'll bet your tractor engine was extremely low on oil too!
The fact that you think it may be due to low oil suggests that this might not be the first time you have jumped on the tractor "and away we go" without ever checking anything prior to jumping on.
Your description of what happened ("very loud pop happened and it died") might mean a number of things, but if in fact is is tied to running low of oil.......your engine has almost certainly broken a connecting rod and possibly bent the crankshaft.
Have you "checked the oil" since this occurred?
If the oil was low when this happened......it is still going to be low, and is an important detail in determining what actually took place.
If the failure is due to low oil, and has affected the aforementioned components (and more), you will need a replacement engine (new or used).
And, you really need to create a new thread of your own if you intend to further get help here.
Now that you have joined, you can create a new thread to cover your specific event.


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RE: Briggs and Stratton 24 hp ELS Engine

Just a note to gajohn, if you are using that to mow 8 acres, you are smoking ga grass, which is illegal in most states.


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