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19.5hp Intek, hole in block

Posted by Rixta none (My Page) on
Sun, Jun 2, 13 at 19:05

Hi, I have a Mculloch/Husqvarna 42"ride on. It is 6 months old done about 40-50 hrs. The other day a rod flew through the block. A few days earlier I did an oil change, I checked 3 or 4 times to make sure I put enough in.I ran it 2 days later for 1.1/2hrs and then the next day I started it and after 1 minute bang!!
Its hard to get parts or info in Australia on these engines, but it sounds a little common. What would anybody suggest?
Replace it with a Kohler engine, or go back to the original Intek? The fella I bought it off is a Husqvarna mechanic and he reckons he might be able to get one wholesale. Otherwise theyare $1000!!
Anyone had this problem before ??
Cheers


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

6 months old.....40-50 hours? I believe I would be shouting WARRANTY if it were mine.
If.............the crankshaft rod journals do not show any scoring (or at least "very little" scoring) I would claim defective materials and workmanship by Briggs.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

Well this is where I am stuck! It was a demo model, which had done 5 hrs at a field day. They cant sell demo models so the mechanic bought it off them and sold it to me. So, therefore no warranty.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

If no warranty, then I'd just replace the motor if the rest of mower appears workable. Briggs & Stratton is usually a reliable engine. But you could go with a different make of engine if the shaft matches your shaft.
Incidentally I have a 17.5 hp engine on my 42" mower. The difference in power is neglible. Something to keep in mind if you can get a better deal on a different hp engine.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

If you switch to a different brand engine, you'll have to deal with electrical connector surgery at a minimum. Possibly problems with the muffler and throttle linkage??
IF you stick with Briggs, you have much more versatility. For example, if the charging system is different, you can simply swap the one off the old engine.

Post the Briggs Model & Type #


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

Thanks guys,
Here is the model numbers, 31p677 1517 g5 110209zd


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

No matter which make of engine you install in it--have a real mechanic show you how to "read" the dip-stick! T'will save ya money in the end!


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

You'll want an engine with the dual circuit alternator, which tends to be less costly.
I don't know if yours has a fuel pump or not.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

No need for smart alec answers, maybe I should just buy a longer dipstick Rusty.
I rely on this for my wage, so I need this back on track ASAP


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

that "next day when you started it and after 1 minute, Bang"... did you check the crankcase oil level before starting the engine and was it within the dipstick limit marks after the stick wipe-off and 2nd dip?

And - my Aussie friend - don't be taking Rusty to the woodshed - chances are he's older than yer daddy and has fixed more mowers than you've ever seen.
G'day, mate.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

Well, as "dip-sticks" go---you can just stick it in the hole in the block, and get the reading there! By the way--do you just pull the stick out, look at it, without wiping off the oil, and re-insert it and then start it? If you do that--its no wonder the engine went "BANG"! Maybe, by now, you might realise you aren't really as smart as your comments make you out to be! Thanks for the smarmy message, to me, from you. Be happy, when help comes to you. I don't get my feelings hurt much any more, so have at it. Yours: Rusty Jones, The Mower Man!


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

Yes, Rusty Jones arta be about 87 YOA now.
His privilege to issue sassy remarks is now carved in stone.
It's like this: If his remarks don't actually fit YOU......well, they darn sure fit somebody.
Now, on the other hand, if the shoe fits you must wear it.
All remarks and comments on this forum are available to everyone for the same cost, whether the comments be stone cold sober, sarcastic, facetious, or wry.
Photo below of Rusty's favorite beverage when he reached the age of majority (during the 1930s).
Pick it Rusty,


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

I checked it 3 or 4 times. Yes I wiped it every check. I even cranked it over waited for 5 minutes and checked. What I cant understand is that it was running the day previous for 1 hr, then the next day it blew within a minute!


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

" then the next day it blew within a minute"

Checking the day before doesn't count. It MUST be checked each days starting. Very good chance the float needle leaked diluting oil with gas, very common.

Walt Conner


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

I am not a mechanic, so this is a bit double dutch.
The float needle leaked diluting oil with gas??
It runs on petrol, what is a float needle, and why is it common they leak?? You mean this will happen again??
The neighbour and I are going to pull it apart today.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

If the float needle is leaking, does that mean it needs to be replaced? Or just amended? If this was the case, what needs to be replaced apart from the block?


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

According to Husqvarna HQ only 2 things can cause this, not enough oil or over reving


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

"I am not a mechanic," "The neighbour and I are going to pull it apart today."

Well that should be interesting. The float needle may get a speck of dirty, flake from inside the gas line, or other contaminate under it keep it from seating. Best solution for all these engines is an inline gas shut off valve and shut the gas off whenever the engine is not running.

Hole in block? The connecting rod will be broken and most likely the crankshaft will be damaged at a minimum. Camshaft and or camshaft bearing towers may be damaged. New short block or different engine likely best route.

Petro there, gas, gasoline, here.

Walt Conner


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

  • Posted by ericwi Dane County WI (My Page) on
    Mon, Jun 3, 13 at 22:45

If the engine was low on oil, you should see evidence of scoring, or scratches, on the crankshaft, where it meets the connecting rod. If the journal is smooth and reflective, then there is some other reason for the rod failure. Possibly a defective part, or possibly over revving. You did not have the engine running long enough for overheating to occur.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

The float and the float needle valve (with valve seat) is what maintains the petrol at a specific height or level in the carby during engine operation. It is widely (through erroneously) believed that the float and needle are dependable enough to serve as a "fuel stop valve" when the engine is not running (machine is at rest between uses).
Float systems were never intended to be the sole fuel keeper for the duration of storage, even if it is a short period.
Price point marketing has caused the omission/deletion of factory installed, manually operated........fuel stop cocks a long time past.
And the upshot of that has been a lot of trashed engines due to petrol dilution of the crankcase lube oil since that time.
EVERY piece of outdoor power equipment should be fitted with an inline fuel shutoff valve and the valve should be closed except when the engine is actually running during use.
Never put blind faith in the performance of a float valve to keep your petrol confined to the tank during storage of the machine, not even overnight.
Typically, if the float needle in the carby leaks petrol into the crankcase (during the time the engine is offline), the next operating session of the engine will usually have great clouds of blue smoke pouring out the exhaust.
The reason is that the petrol in the crankcase thins out the lube oil and raises the level high enough for the crankshaft to begin frothing the mixture into a foam.
Next, as the engine begins to warm up, the volatile petrol begins to "boil off" and in doing so, the crankcase becomes pressurized and the pressure begins to vent out of the crankcase through the crankcase vent and on into the intake system of the engine............where this oil rich stream will be fed to the combustion chamber.
The result is a huge amount of smoke and a rapid depletion of lube oil from the crankcase.
Sometimes this runaway process moves so much oil out at once that the engine is literally overwhelmed with the mixture and (thankfully) the engine may stop running before the crankshaft is trashed.
Sometimes the amount of petrol is low enough that the oil moves out at a bit slower pace, but still fast enough to run the engine low, besides that, the foamy and thinned oil is not much good as a lubricant and so the engine is slain in a tortuous death.
Just tell us the condition of the crankshaft rod journals, or even better, show us some photos of your findings.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

Took it apart. These are photos of crank shaft and the puncture hole from the inside. The oil filled a 500g spaghetti sauce jar


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

The hole


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

  • Posted by ericwi Dane County WI (My Page) on
    Tue, Jun 4, 13 at 10:44

Thanks for posting the photo of the scored crankshaft journal. The surface is clearly scored, most likely due to lack of oil. I can't say if gasoline from the fuel system got into your oil. Since the engine was on a "demo" unit, it has an unknown service history. I agree with comments above that pertain to the need for a fuel shut-off valve between the gas tank and the carburetor. This valve allows the owner/operator to close the valve and run the carburetor dry at the end of the day, and at the end of the season. It greatly simplifies prepping an engine for off-season storage, and it helps keep the carburetor clean and free of varnish and gum residue. There is reason to think that if such a valve had been installed on your tractor as original equipment, and it the valve had been used on a daily basis, your engine would still be in good condition.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

There can always be a degree of conjecture (A.K.A "the maybes") in trying learn the actual contributing factors that lead up to catastrophic failures such as this one.
One thing now certain (since seeing photo evidence) is that some time recently (how recent is unknown, but I would guess within a few days prior to scattering).............the engine suffered a period of running with insufficient oil in the engine.........or oil that was adulterated with petrol............or the oil was worn out from being in use too long...........or inadequate grade of oil was used (all conjecture, mind you, and not an accusing pointed finger).
The bottom line in this internet analysis is that the crankshaft connecting rod journal, and the rod big end, became scored from inadequate lubrication and from that initial scoring, the damage simply propagated to cover more and more of the rod big end and the crankshaft journal. The rod began transferring aluminum alloy onto the crankshaft (called "galling"). The result of galling is somewhat akin to welding in that the material from the connecting rod and the surface of the crankshaft try to become one piece of material, instead of one component revolving inside the other.
At some point this highly overheated mass of metal begins to tear apart and shed loose pieces from the juncture of the rod and crank, and at that point the rod big end may fly to pieces and separate from the crankshaft..........or the rod may fuse sufficiently to the crankshaft that the rotational torque will break the rod somewhere between the crank journal and the piston wrist pin.
Other scenarios that can also happen in these events include the likelihood of piston galling to the cylinder (which tends to stop the piston mid stroke) and thereby breaking the connecting rod by PULLING it apart.
This engine is now recyclable in the most basic way.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

Yes, something I haven't pointed out, the day before, I was on an embankment, say 80 degrees angle. I was right on the edge and it slipped. I disengaged the blades and then it rolled backwards down the slope and then I just drove off around the end and carried on mowing. Maybe this incline had something to do with the oil?
I carried on mowing no problem, till next day when it blew after 1 minute.
Thanks guys.
Ive been on the net since googling for engines and they are all over in USA, it seems I cant get one on line here.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

just curious, mate... how long did you operate that engine at that embankment angle?


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

I was on level ground, then the back wheel slipped, and it was half off for a bout 5 or 10 seconds I disengaged the blades then it slipped down back wheels first. All up I say it would have been about 20 seconds


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

That's quite some slope, since 90 degrees is vertical!


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

yeah, even if that briggs had a pressurized lube system, that sharp of an operating angle did the innards no good at all. OTOH, run time in that condition was short. Perhaps a wash.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

I really don't get Rusty Jones. His posts are either giberish or they are in dialect. He is prone to posting intellegence insulting comments and when someone reacts to one of his insulting quips, RJ gets offended?
Fowks hoo livs in glas howsis shoodnt thro stowns.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

Grass - answer with the bark on:
not getting Rusty means you don't have any grasp of the subject(s) he addresses. His wisdom comes from decades of applied L&G powered eqpt experience and self-reliance... prolly has more "been-there-done-that" t-shirts than many of us will ever earn.
On top of that, he is still going strong when most of us would be proud to sit up in a wheelchair and oh, BTW, left one of his feet in Europe so you and I can still write subjective posts. IMHO, he has earned his right to post in his own way and does offer very good practical advice to many that come here looking for help.
Capisce?


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

You know how Jethro Gibbs smacks Tony on the back of his head (NCIS)?................
Well, that's rusty.
This forum could likened to a gemstone.......rusty is but one facet in the entire array.
I (on the other hand), may be that green stuff that shows up on cheap jewelry.
May God bless rusty and all our veterans.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

rcbe, reply with muzzle on:
Ive been reading this forum for a couple of years and I'm aware of rusty's knowledge and wisdom. I also understand he enjoys employing giberish and dialect as a literary device when posting. If you want to pick rusty's brain, you have to earn the priviledge by deciphering his code. That's fine. I enjoy reading his posts.
I would be the last one to chastize him when he posts something demeaning or rude. It's a free country we live in and we have great latitude in what we say and how we say it thanks to the sacrifices of veterans. I just wasn't aware you could earn the right to insult a stranger without the expectation of some reprisal. (albeit not a right, we do grant such allowance to the mentally impared -which rusty clearly is not- if that was your purpose in pointing out his age) .

Mownie,
If Jethro smacked a complete stranger alongside the head, would Jethro be justified in expressing shock and anger when the stranger responds in kind?

I like rusty. My point was: he should consider not pitching it if he's not willing to catch it.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

Grass - might go back and re-read Rusty's original comment and the OP's response... then tell me who went thin-skinned. and who was telling it like it was. And don't worry - I've seen Rusty in scraps that make this little ditty look like a sunday school play. Have no fear - He's got the thickest of boilerplate for skin and the Last thing you want is a firefight with him on the other side.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

Well, thanks, fellers, for the votes of confidence!
It is plain to see that some folks never learn, or refuse to learn, the rudiments of operating small (and sometimes big) Gasoline or diesel engines. Nor do they learn how to check the dip-stick/oil level. I had one customer say that he started the engine, and it went "BANG"! He said he had checked the oil several days before, but not that day. I asked him to show me his method, on one of my machines. (Mine hadn't been started that day, but was used day before.) He took out the dip-stick, didn't wipe it, looked at it, and said it had lots of oil in it! Said it looked like it had way too much oil! MMM-HMMM! I wiped the stick and told him to check it again. It was now down to the full mark.
And, thanks for defending me from the uneducated folks, who will soon learn the error of their ways, of dissing me!
Help offers will be a long time coming.
And, thanks to mownie for the pic of my favorite brewski!
That can is really old. My Cousin, who got me educated about beer and what kind to drink, would walk among tigers just to get that can, or one like it. We both owe our long life to Dave Yeungling, who managed-s the Company. by: Rusty Jones


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

rcbe-Yes, I re-read it a couple of times before posting. rusty's first comment about learning how to "read" a dip-stick is stating the obvious at best and belittleing and inulting at worst. It's understandable to me that the OP might think rusty was being a smart alec which the OP expressed in his reply. I didn't think the OP's reply was over the top, he expressed his offense but his comment about using a longer dip-stick also indicated that he acknowledged rusty's point and understands how a dip-stick functions.
So far no blood, no foul.
Then rusty took it to a whole new (and IMO completely uncalled for) level. rusty interjects name calling, a crude sexual referrence and a comment regarding the OP's intellegence.

I also just re-read my own comments. At best they are poorly expressed and belittleing, at worst, outright insulting and disparaging (I had to look up "dissing"--slang term originating in the 1980s).
Rather hypocritical for a pot (me) to "call out" a kettle (rusty).

rusty- I didn't write with the intent to disparage you, but obviously that is what I did, the point of my post was lost, and I can understand where you (and the others) would be justified in taking that view.
I appologize.
grass1950


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

grass, very much a man of diplomacy. Respectful and respectable.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

What is wrong with slapping a complete stranger on the head? For all we know the OP filled his crankcase with beer to the correct level.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

What is wrong with slapping a complete stranger on the head? For all we know the OP filled his crankcase with beer to the correct level.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

I appreciate the help that I have got from here.
( I have not said anything of an insulting nature to anybody)

For the last time, I CHECKED THE OIL SEVERAL TIMES, AND WIPED THE DIPSTICK EVERY TIME!!!!!
Upon pulling the motor apart there was certainly no lack of oil. And the oil was clean.
Many (including the Husqvarna mechanic) do not agrre that the float needle would have caused this.
Going by this forum, people I have rang and others I have spoken to, eliminating all possible actions, I have come to the conclusion that it was a manufacturing fault. Something must have not been quite right when I purchased it.
It seems to have happened to a lot of people, and why do they not, manufacture the 19.5hp engine anymore???
I am going to buy the 21hp unfortunately $975 AUD.
Thank god its Friday, POETS day.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

Oh a customer told me he never changed his oil for 8 yrs and it still ran fine.
And Rusty, my Pop was in the navy, he passed away at 85. He knew lots of old tricks too.
My favourite was when he taught me to split a log into 8 pieces just by using 2 swings of the axe/log splitter.
We also love a beer.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

Mownie - I am thinking about trotting out my story about my old ford's freezing radiator... would go well here, do ye think?


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

Nah, all them worms in that can are probably dead by now.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

To: Grass 1950: Apology accepted! I have been a trans-planted hill-billy for many years, as some of my good friends here abouts have said. I served in Army with a bunch of them, in Camp Butner, N.C. and over seas, too. When i got back home, i took to playing guitar with a Country Music bunch, and got used to talking that way. Except when visiting my Mother, who gave me stern looks if i didn't use the King's English. (american english)
Rusty Jones


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

Rusty14,
Thank you.
As a first generation hill-billy transplant on my Mother's side (Dad's heritage isn't quite so stellar), it's nice to know that I can refer to a car's cubby hole and someone here will know what I'm talking about and we can worsh our hands of this unpleasantness and start fresh.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

I'll drink to that! Decaf, anyone?


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

Me an' my wife seen Warshington (D.C.).


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

WARSHington? Soooo refined. Your Mother musta used Emily Post to learn ya. Pronouncing it thata way would be a sure sign you're from the hollar and new to the ridge.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

Naaahh! My mother was more like "fence post" than Emily Post.
I am "dyed in the wool" hillbilly from east Tennessee.
Nothing contrived about my roots at all.
My ancestors pronounced "ruined" as if it were spelled "rernt"..... not ruint.........rernt.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

Where I live and operate my ride on, it is in the hills. So most gardens are on hills/slopes.
Do you think continued use at times on slopes caused this?
How often and long can you use a ride on, on slopes etc?? what angles etc?? cheers. I don't want this to happen again.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

Well, I can't really say whether those conditions led to the ultimate destruction or not..............there are simply too many variables and unknown factors to try and guess.
All I can say for sure is that tilting an engine far enough that the oil pump intake port becomes exposed to air, certainly could hasten wear to critical parts.
The problem with sustaining even a little bit of damage at the rod journal and rod bearing is kinda like a woman being just a little bit pregnant...................neither of them is going to remain in that condition for very long.
So, looking at the photo of the rod journal on the crank I can say with confidence that the damage I see is due to insufficient lubrication, but I can't say when the initial damage was done.
Usually, if you can stay on the tractor and it does not turn over with you, you probably aren't hurting the engine, provided that it has good oil and the prescribed quantity, in the engine.
One thing an owner can do if they want to protect against running an engine with no oil pressure is to wire in an oil pressure operated kill switch that will ground the magneto if oil pressure falls dangerously low.
Pretty simple to add one of these to a magneto ignition system. The shutdown system does not utilize any "battery hot" circuits, only ground side circuits, but it DOES require having a "momentary open" switch that you have to operate manually while cranking the engine. But not a big deal to do.
I have posted a simple sketch of the low oil shut down in the past and would be glad to hit it again if requested.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

Thanks Mownie, I appreciate your synopsis.
A sketch would be welcome also..
It is obvious the damage is from lack of lubrication, but how I don't know...
Cheers.
I`ll blow the top off a frothy for you.


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

Rixta - just as a reference - my engine manual (Kohler twin) sez:
" Angle of Operation
Refer to operating instructions of equipment
this engine powers. Do not operate this engine
exceeding maximum angle of operation; see
specification table. Engine damage could result
from insufficient lubrication"
My tractor manual simply states the standard (Stateside) 15 degree slope max. Prolly a bit conservative, but important in case of a warranty issue.
Your engine manual and tractor manual may have different specs...


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

Some operator's manuals will furthar define with time limits.
For example, my owner's manual states that to prevent damage from oil starvation that the tractor be operated at LESS than 10 min. at a 30 degree angle, but can be continuously operated at 25 degrees. This is separate from the recommended angles of operation for reasons of safety. (I'm pretty sure an attorney added the "LESS")


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RE: 19.5hp Intek, hole in block

OK, since I haven't figured out how to post multiple images to a single post (without going through a separate host website) I combined 2 sketches into a single image.
Both sketches illustrate the same concept but maybe one or the other will convey what needs to be done to incorporate a low oil PRESSURE shut down circuit into an engine that has a pressure LUBE system.
Lest someone be somehow misled into supposing the magneto kill function (described in the sketches) can somehow be wired up to an existing OIL LAMP circuit, let me say right now "HECK NO, YOU CAN'T DO THAT"!!!!!!!!!!!!
Trying to do that would send 12VDC current to the magneto, and that would KILL the magneto permanently (as in: Go buy a new magneto).
The oil pressure switch can be bought at auto parts stores, just make sure it is in the pressure range of 4 to 6 PSI (or whatever your local metric equivalent of that happens to be).
The momentary OPEN push button switch MUST function so that the switch provides continuity through it when the button is not being pressed down. This allows for manually over ruling the oil pressure shutdown so you can start the engine.
Once the engine is running, release the push button and the system is ready to stop spark ignition if oil pressure falls below the switch threshold limit.
Now, in operation................any drop of oil pressure that closes the oil pressure switch.............will result in the magneto being grounded, stopping the spark.
You may encounter an operating "situation" that causes the shutdown to momentarily try to kill the engine, but does not last long enough to actually stop the engine (because the oil pressure comes back up while the engine is still spinning).
If you find yourself doing things that incite this to happen.......you need to stop doing that, whatever you are doing........because that is telling you you may be operating outside of safe parameters for your engine (regarding the lubrication system).
ABOVE ALL other considerations......DO NOT think this system protects against LOW OIL LEVEL, it does not.
In all fairness, having a low oil LEVEL to begin with will increase the likelihood of having a low oil PRESSURE event during operation, but this system is not aimed to be a substitute for checking the oil level before each run of the engine, and after refilling the fuel tank if your operation requires refilling the tank before continued use.


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