Sorry i haven't pulled the head yet..just the valve covers. The adjustments seem to be holding after adjustment. The engine type is "0016 E1". Pulling the head looks to be where I'm heading, just dont have a shop manual so a little nervous. The engine is a reman. replacement from the ELS series that had the bad air filter set up on the 24hp. She maybe has all of 20 hours on it now. Its only the intake rod on the left side as your sitting on the tractor...Thanks for you help!!

If you have not seen the IPL, click link below. You can save a copy to your computer.
If the adustments seem to hold, that's an indication that the rocker arm stud is staying put at least. It seems to be heading toward a defective valve or valve guide. We'll check them later.

Here is a link that might be useful: 44P777 IPL

Do not understand why you are messing with an engine that should be under warranty and most likely voiding it.

Walt Conner

***"should be under warranty"***
20 hours or so on the clock does not mean it was bought last month, so warranty might not actually be in effect, poster has not stated WHEN he acquired the engine or even IF he was the original purchaser.
On the other hand, if this engine WAS covered by a warranty, just why are you taking it upon yourself to try and fix. If in fact there is still the chance that this engine still has a warranty, you need to stop and get in touch with Briggs before you get into a situation that might even require you to buy a replacement cylinder head (or engine).

O.k IÂm not apart of the IDIOT brigade that would try to repair something still under warranty. To clear the air with warranty issues, here are the dates. Purchased the Craftsman GT5000 on April 8, 2005. Bought an extended warranty till April 8, 2008.
A sears "remanufactured" Briggs & Strat engine was installed on Dec. 20, 2007. My extended warranty expired 4 months later. So for roughly a year and a half IÂve put about 25 hours on the engine. SEARS of course is saying sorry should have bought our extended warranty at $$$. They also said that the engine that was placed in my tractor was NOT new but remanufactured, therefore it no longer has the Briggs & Stratton manufactures warranty AND I just now got off the phone with Briggs and Stratton Call Center and they said "the second engine installed warranty begins the original date that I bought the tractor from SEARS and that it doesnÂt start the date of replacement install.

I hope this helps those thinking that this could be a warranty issue. It obviously is not.

So back to the problem a listed in previous posts. Any suggestions? Thanks for the IPL mownie, it helped a lot. If IÂm reading it correctly the valve guides are not replaceable and I need to replace the whole head if one of the valve guides is bad?? I will start the tear down this evening a little at a time on that one head. Once I get it off I will report my findings Thanks..

Henry

"poster has not stated WHEN he acquired the engine"

Thanks, mownie.

While B&S says that a loose valve guide in this series of engine is not repairable, I do have a tried and proven fix.

Walt Conner

Most likely pushrod is coming out of position because valve is not closing fast enough. For whatever reason there is too much friction between valve stem and valve guide I.D. Fuel varnish etc...

Hey thanks for the info and guidance I really do appreciate it. Does anyone happen to have the tear down specs for the heads. Not looking for a full manual freebe but just the specs for that part of the engine. IÂm real curious to see inside the head and piston camber to see whats going on. Thanks..

If it comes through OK............

{{gwi:335703}}

Let me remind you that if you embark on taking this engine apart, you need to use a digital camera to record the procedure. Take pictures from several different view points. Take a photo before, and after, you remove each component. Download the photos into your computer and keep them in a folder just for your engine project. If you fail to mark your trail, you could find yourself lost when trying to reassemble. Also make notes on a sheet of paper or in a "note book". Bag & tag parts is another suggestion. You are about to invest some time (and $) in this engine, you would do well to get yourself a copy of the Biggs service manual for this engine. If you have no desire to buy the manual, you should at least do the other alternative thing with the camera and note taking. All too often, people begin taking something apart, "one screw/bolt/nut at a time", and before long......they have a "pile o' parts" and a "bucket o' bolts" with no idea where anything came from (or which way it was oriented). If you go through a few sleep cycles while waiting on parts, funds, spare time, or a sunny day, and the "Iforgots" really set in.

Be sure and seal the bags good, when I don't put an engine back together in a couple of days, some parts "evaporate".

Walt Conner

Pulling the head is easier than you would think.5 bolts and your done. I found an interesing video on an alternate way of adjusting your rocker arms. It appears to achieve the same results as the briggs method, but you dont have to pull the plugs or look for TDC .
Here is the link,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGkn0jR9RJM
Pay close attention to your valve guide to make sure one hasnt slipped or is loose. This alone will cause your push rods to fall out

Hey thanks for the great advice... I will be ordering the shop manual this evening... As far as the valve guide will it be visible loose?? I agree with galaris. For the push rod to just fall out with out bending or breaking something is causing the valve to close slower. I will check for varnish ect on the valve... Thanks again guys, I will update on my progress.

Henry

"As far as the valve guide will it be visible loose??"

No, and as far as a valve guide being loose, that results in the push rod being bent.

Walt Conner

***"5 bolts and you're done."***
Were you intending to leave the exhaust and intake manifolds attached to the head??

"Were you intending to leave the exhaust and intake manifolds attached to the head"
I was refering to the head bolts,that hold the head on. I do however leave the exhaust manifold on.

Anyone have a part numbner for the service manual for a 44P777-0016-E1? Can't seem to find the right one for my engine? Thanks..

273521 looks like the manual for 44XXXX series engines. Walt can say yay or nay.

Here is a link that might be useful: Repairs manual

REPAIR UPDATE: Well gents I removed the head (wasnÂt that hard) that was having the problem with the push rod popping our AND the intake valve looked like it was coated in some funky karo syrup. I removed the valve spring and sure enough there was a lot of varnish coating the intake valve causing it to stick or have LOTS of resistance. So I think I found the problem. IÂll assume that the other one is not much better and tear it down too once I clean this one up. I should just be able to clean this up with out any replacement parts other than new gaskets???right????
Any suggestions on a good cleaner for removing this varnish build up would be great??
I bagged and tagged all the bolts and screws (though) there was not that many but I could see with this being drawn out how some could walk awayÂ. AND my service manual should be here in a day or two.
THANKS Â
Henry J.

***"a good cleaner for removing this varnish build up"***
Lacquer thinner, acetone, spray carburetor cleaner are all good for this. Plain old gasoline is even effective, and no more dangerous than the other things, regarding "fire hazard" and "inhalation hazards". If you are tempted to "soak" the parts in a solution, don't soak the valve seal (if you plan to reuse it, I actually recommend new seals). You can clean out the valve guides by putting the valve into the guide with some solvent or spray carb cleaner and then "reaming" the valve guide using the valve as "ram rod".
When you get this engine going, you will want to be certain to always use a gasoline stabilizer product AND some upper cylinder lube as suggested near the top of this thread.
The findings would almost make one wonder "just what" the reconditioning to this engine actually consisted of???

Can anyone give me a hint on how to remove the intake valve seals. They seem to be press fitted on. My manual will be here Tuesday but I have some free time tonight... pulled the number 1 cylinder head too and it wasn't as bad but almost. Went through a few dremel wire brush heads cleaning out all of the build up in both heads. The valves glide like silk now. Ordered the whole head/ valve seal kit from ebay for $22.00 and it has all of them in there so hopefully she will be back to her olÂself again here soon. Went to Wallyworld this morning and bought the MMO. Mixed up a batch and its setting in the gas tank nowÂ2 oz. for 5 gal.
I agree with mownie, REALLY makes one wonder what SEARS puts into a remanufactured engine. Briggs and Stratton should not let them use the Briggs name once they do that JMO.
Henry J.

I take a pair of pliers, come straight down on the seal, twist and pull.

Walt Conner

When you are assembling the valves into the heads, be sure to wipe some clean motor oil on the entire valve stem before putting them in the guides.

Hey Walt2002 after a little squirt of parts cleaner on the seal to remove any excess oil a pair of channel locks dialed in twisted the seal right off!!! THANKS!!

Mownie, thanks for the reminder, I actually used STP oil treatment in the rockers and valve guides. Seems to stay put till it gets its own lube flowing.

You guys are the greatest!!! THANKS!!!

Henry

Am reading this thread -- just getting into a problem -- have a B/S model 445677 type 0413 E1 on a Craftsman lawntractor -- always was low on power -- bogging under stress or heavy grass load -- seemingly ran out of power -- but still running -- removed the rocker cover to find that there is only one push rod ???? that one immediately fell off and is bent. Is it possible that this motor ran with only one push rod for almost three years ? and if not -- where is the other push rod ?? as I said -- just getting into this problem :-)

How does the other side look? Mine ran on one cylinder for about half a day. And ran good at that. WOW no push rod....something tells me that quality control was sleeping when that put that one together.

I just rebuilt both heads on mine. Wasn't really that hard. Of course heads and valves are easy..compaired to the block.

They have some real great guys on this forum that helped me a lot. I'm sure they can give you some direction...

So, oohma, you bought this new? And it has been like this since Day 1? Clink on the link below and pick out which part you say fell out and is bent. I hope you noticed which rocker it was in.

Here is a link that might be useful: 445677 IPL

Yes this was bought new -- part 102A is there (bent)-- I know where it fell out of -- but I also have back up -- but we stopped at that point cause we were a bit shocked !!! I did check other side later and there are two in there.

Well got the gasket set in and work all night putting her back together. Jumped in the drivers seat to turn it over and thats was all it did turn over and over and over???? Pulled the fuel line..pump works...pulled the plug wires..plugs are getting spark...sprayed some starter fluid in the intake and she started for a few seconds??? So the carburetor was suspect....Well a carburetor tear down i found the freak'n problem..A STUCK VALVE FLOAT NEEDLE!!!! Ahhhhhhhhh. I was wondering why there wasn't any fuel in the float bowl...Duhhhhhh. Well its back together now and after a few cranks she started right up!!! Thanks for everyones help...

Henry.

Hi everyone.

I have the 24hp briggs els mod 446777 as discussed above in a recently acquired cub tractor/mower showing 105 hrs. It has the notorious yellow clip air filter housing. Previous owner did little or no maintenance. Started with oil smoke, ran rough. Compression showed 120 left cylinder, 60 right cylinder. Removed valve cover right cylinder, intake rod broken and 1+1/2 inch piece missing, exhaust rod bent lying loose. Exhaust valve guide was pushed toward the valve retaining washer so the rod bent when the valve retaining washer hit the guide. I was able to tap the guide back to a position approximately the same as the guide on left cylinder.

The intake valve guide seemed fine and both valves are moving freely.

Hope that's clear. Looking to understand the cause and proper repair.

Any ideas and suggestions? TIA

I have the same engine and have replaced the push rod 4 times on the left side. First time it got sucked into the crankcase. after bending the 3rd rod - I pulled the cylinder head and found the exhuast valve sticking. Took the valve out and cleaned the valve - did not clean the valve sleeve -(My Bad). After reassembiling - it ran great for about an hr. Parked it in the garage and went out a week later - yet another bent rod! I thought about just replacing the cylinder head assembly. PS. Does anyone know why one rod is steel and the other is aluminum?

This is a year old,long thread and I am not going to read all of it. A new thread would have been better.

The aluminum push rod will be used on the valve that is utilized by the compression release. Intake valve for Intek V engines.

I suggest you check that the valve guide is not working up to where the valve spring retainer is hitting it. IF not, use Marvel Mystery Oil per instructions on the can. The valve guide should not be over 1/8" above the head casting. IF it is, I have a fix.

Walt Conner
wconner5 at frontier dot com

I see this is an old thread, but I have a question along the same line. I too have a 24 hp B&S that is bending push rods on one side of the motor. It did it 6 months ago and I took it to a shop that told me they replaced the push rods on the right hand side of the motor and it was " all fixed". I asked why they had bent, and the answer I got was " maybe it overheated"? Now at the end of the season it has done it again. I pulled the same cover and found the exh. rod bent and lying in the bottom of the head, and the intake rod still in place, but slightly bent. I replaced both rods, removed spark plugs and began the process to set the gap when I notices the exh. rod was bending again as I was turning the motor by hand! I stopped right there....Time to pull the head? What could be causing this? This motor only has 256 hours on it, and I have owned it since day 1. All maintenance is up to date. Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Drew

The INTAKE pushrod probably got bent due to the tendency for intake pushrods to stick to the valve guide when the engine stops while the valve is in the open position. If the valve sticks while open, the next time the engine is cranked, the valve stays open (momentarily) while the camshaft and pushrod move away. This can result in the pushrod disconnecting completely from the rocker arm, which results in an "out of socket" pushrod. Or the pushrod might "get caught" on the edge of the rocker arm adjuster socket, resulting in a "bent pushrod" as the camshaft rotates to the next intake stroke.
The bent EXHAUST pushrod is almost certainly the result of the exhaust valve guide coming loose and migrating upward, reducing the amount of travel for the valve spring. The valve spring can now only compress just a little bit before it effectively becomes a solid metal "spacer" instead of a compressible spring. At this point, the pushrod starts bending from the pressure imposed on it.
With both pushrods removed, measure the length of both valve springs. If the exhaust valve spring is measurably SHORTER than the intake valve spring, the exhaust valve guide is creeping out of place.

Because this IS such an old thread, you really ought to start a new thread of your own to address YOUR issue.

This post was edited by mownie on Fri, Oct 18, 13 at 12:13

Mownie-
Thank you for the info...You are correct the exhaust spring/valve compresses about 2/3 as much as the intake. Can the exhaust valve guide be readjusted, or is it time for a new head?

That the valve guide is creeping out might mean that the head has been overheated in the past. Overheating is usually caused by rodent activity, mice build nests and cache food stuff under the sheet metal which is the cooling fan ducting.
Briggs says valve guides can't be restored and that a replacement head is the answer. But, there have been threads where a guide was removed for cleaning out the valve guide and its bore, and then driven back in AFTER some peening of the bore and applying a thin coat of JB Weld epoxy to the guide.
I do not know how successful those have been.
Whatever you do be sure you take off all the sheet metal shrouding and clean out any nests or other blockage.

I do have a fix which has been used by many and is successful. J.B.Weld will not take the heat associated with either Exhaust or Intake Valve. I have a successful fix for the Exhaust Valve furnished by another contributor which does not even involve removing the head. IF you want them, address below, put in proper format and remind me what you want.

Walt Conner
wconner5 at frontier dot com

GUYS PLEASE START A NEW THREAD !

Please help,I have a 24 hp ELS briggs & stration motor that i took apart and getting it back together and now getting ready to put heads on and push rods back in, one is steel the other is alliumium, which one goes where in the head

This post was edited by couger2kool on Thu, Nov 20, 14 at 8:31

The aluminum push rod goes on the Intake Valve. I can send you a Service Manual for your engine IF you like. Address below, put in proper format and remind me, model number and what you want.

Walt Conner
wconner5 at frontier dot com

Hi thank you for getting back to me Walt, my model 446677, 24 ELS, Intec v- twin, I have a brigg & stratton manual for this model, I finally got it all back together, all it needs now is to adjust the valve's ,the book didn't really say which valve rod went where ,thanks again for you help

This post was edited by couger2kool on Sat, Nov 22, 14 at 6:34

I gave you my address above.

Walt Conner

Hi ,I have a manual for my motor but it don't really say much about how tight to tighten the center bolt on valve rockers before making adjustments to them and it is not clear on procedure on making the adjustments to the rockers, it says to put it on tdc and adjust the intake valve now at this time do you adjust the exhaust one too then do the other head the same,thanks with any help you can give me to clear this up

This post was edited by couger2kool on Sat, Nov 22, 14 at 8:30

Same problem and I understsnd the repair. However when the valve stuck and the pushrod broke it feel into the engine opening that is next to area the push rod sits. How do I get it out

Thanks

Sorry if late Jerome as assuming after a year you either figured it out or gave up. I had same issue and was able to remove with magnet through oil fill...to some patience it got it done

Btw couldn't find new thread for this but i am experiencing same, right side exhaust valve....second time for me and this time around positive it's not an overheat issue...first time it happened it may have been. From what I have read on here already is my assumption that the motor, is pretty much junk, correct? Any input would be appreciated as I don't have the money and especially don't have the time time to be replacing rods on a regular basis. Yes I kept up with valve lash after first issue and it remained at factory spec. Not sure about valve possibly sticking or guide...guide remained in place last time but honestly didn't go as far as to check this time due to my frustration...long story

Shaun , Yeah usually better to start new thread , as you can see multitude of questions and not quite as many qualified responses. If you are comparing apples to apples Briggs not Tecumseh or Kohler , then yes the Briggs in question are junk . however if you maintain them , they will serve you reasonably . They have had a history of premature cam lobe wear and valve lash issues and bent push rods. They require religious mtce oil filter changes along with valve top end lube fuel treatments . Your experience could be any of 5 basic issues. Worn cam lobe , worn valve guide , dirty carbon fouled valve seats or faulty guides , loose valve lash rocker adjusting nuts or screw or a slightly bent or worn push rod . Only you can advise of the preventative mtce you have performed , regular oil and filter changes , fuel conditioner use etc ! Check you internal components and get back to us with Engine specifics Manf. Model Number , age , general condition !

It is more likely that you have a valve guide migrating in the head than anything else. If valve lift is comparable on both valves, both cylinders- then look at guide positioning. If you have a guide that protrudes from the head to the point it is hitting the valve retainer, then you will break the push rod. If you have only 1 head that it is happening to- it is probably worth another head if there are not any other issues.

Being that you stated it is the exhaust , then the overheating and build up of carbon applies or the actual guide migrating , as advised by Tom within the head . Normally worse case scenario head replacement , however Walt advises he has a cure without removal of the head . You may wish to contact him at the email listed above with engine model designation . Clearly define your problem , his solution may save you some time and money Shaun . You have to ensure top end conditioner on these Briggs , for future reference , along with religious valve lash mtce and thread locker usage.

My valve seat came out causing this problem