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Battery overcharging

Pusher
10 years ago

Looking for assistance regardnig a Briggs and Stratton 422707 1214 01 lawn trractor engine. About three weeks ago I mowed the lawn and shut the tractor off. When I restarted the tractor about 15 minutes later the battery exploded (took the top right off of it). The battery was about 3 years old with no prior starting or running issues. After cleaning the tractor and replacing the battery, I placed a volt meter on it and recorded about 14 volts at the battery with the tractor running full speed. Being curious about what caused the battery to explode, I checked the voltage again last night and received a reading of 16 volts at the battery. I suspect the voltage regulator might be shot, however, could not locate one on the engine. The parts diagram lists a voltage regulator but I can't locate it.

Comments (45)

  • bill_kapaun
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What's the brand & model# of the tractor?
    maybe there's a schematic available so we can tell which of the various Briggs charging systems you have.

  • Pusher
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the quick reply. The tractor is a Ranch King/MTD 18 HP Model 143P849H205 1C053810007. It appears that there are two wires from the stator (red and yellow).

    This post was edited by Pusher on Wed, Jul 31, 13 at 11:01

  • mownie
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    ***" It appears that there are two wires from the stator (red and yellow)."***
    Better double check the colors of the WIRES and the plastic CONNECTORS.
    Briggs has specific colors of WIRES & CONNECTORS to identify the exact (or nearly exact) system configuration/type.
    Your statement about the stator having 1 red and 1 yellow wire is not exactly correct.
    The component you are referring to that has 1 red wire with a red connector, and 1 yellow wire with a green connector..................actually is the regulator, not the stator.
    The stator is under the flywheel. The yellow wire with the green connector should join to a black wire leading to the stator. The red wire with red connector is the charging output circuit that joins to a battery positive circuit on the chassis harness.
    Your Briggs charging system is the "5 or 9 amp, regulated" system.
    Whether it is 5 amp or 9 amp is determined by the size of the magnets on the flywheel. 5 amp has small magnets and 9 amp has large magnets.
    The Briggs part number regulator you need is 691188.

  • Pusher
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I may have misled you. The two wires that I believe are coming from the stator under the flywheel are red and black and plug into a red and white wire. I have attached a picture of the wires. The red wire runs direcctly to a key cylinder that starts the tractor. The white wire runs to the light switch. There is also a black wire coming from under the flywheel at the front of the tractor that connects to a yellow wire that runs directly to the key cylinder. Hopefully, the picture makes sense. Is there a chance that the voltage regulator is located under the flywheel? Could this model not have a voltage regulator? Again, thanks for the assisstance.

  • bill_kapaun
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You don't have a VR.
    The "lump" in the RED wire coming from the stator is your charge diode.
    It converts AC to DC. (3 AMP)
    The other wire is your AC (5 AMP) lighting circuit.

    The diode in the link is what many of us use for a replacement.
    Polarity is important else you'll get negative DC out.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Diode

  • mownie
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    OK, your system DOES NOT have a regulator.
    Yours is the Dual Circuit system.
    One circuit delivers untouched AC to the lights.
    The second circuit is for battery charging.
    It has a simple rectifying diode to change the AC output of the stator to DC for charging the battery, but the output is unregulated.
    What sort of history does this tractor have? Has it always been in your hands or is it something you acquired "used"?
    I ask because this type of unregulated charging system is usually just "barely able" to replace the drain of cranking a battery after about 30 minutes to an hour of run time.
    Unless you "topped off" the battery with an external charger before you did your volt meter test (the test where you stated a reading of 16 VDC), this system really ought not be capable of raising the voltage to that value.....unless the engine is seriously over speeding.
    You might do well to have the RPM checked.
    How big a battery did you buy (cranking amps rating) to replace the exploded battery?

    This post was edited by mownie on Thu, Aug 1, 13 at 0:43

  • exmar zone 7, SE Ohio
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Intrigued by the "battery exploded..." comment. In my experience with farm tractors, etc. that kind of failure is caused by a dead short on the battery. Even then, the contacts on the starting relay will usually fail prior to actual battery explosion. Usually, someone dropped something which "bridged" from + to ground.

    Perhaps if the diode is shorted and there was pure AC on the battery would cause this? Maybe Mownie will weigh in on this one.

    Good luck,

    Ev

  • ericwi
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It is normal and expected for lead/acid batteries to generate hydrogen gas when they are charged. There should be some kind of vent to allow this excess gas to escape. If the vent was plugged, then internal pressure could accumulate, causing a sudden and catastrophic failure of the battery case. It would not be necessary for ignition to take place, this scenario would be more like an exploding balloon, that was overinflated. Since batteries are filled with a solution of water and sulfuric acid, it would be necessary to douse the contaminated wiring and hardware with baking soda solution, or something similar, to neutralize the acid. Clean cold water can be used to get rid of the baking soda solution.

  • mownie
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    When one of these diodes shorts, the main fuse for the electrical system will blow as soon as the key switch is turned................because..........the diode is no longer a diode......it has become nothing more than another connecting point in a circuit.
    This means that it will conduct current in BOTH directions.
    In normal operation with a good diode, the stator is only going to be able to make about 4 amps maximum (on this particular machine) to send out to the battery, and 4 amps will not overload the 15 or 20 amp rated fuse used in most tractors in this class.
    But, on the other hand, the battery is capable of throwing at least 50 times greater number of amps back at the stator.......if it could just get past that darned diode preventing it from doing so.
    And once one of these diodes becomes shorted, the main fuse will blow......and keep on blowing new fuses until the diode is replaced.

    Diodes usually don't short out of their own volition while in service, though it can happen that way.
    Diodes usually short out when they are asked to conduct an amp load that exceeds their rated capacity.
    The surest way to exceed the ampacity of a diode in any automotive charging system is to subject the electrical system to a REVERSE POLARITY event...........by connecting jump start cables backward between the donor battery and the recipient battery...................or by installing a replacement battery carelessly and getting the cables connected backward.
    It is relatively easy for a diode to resist the flow of current in the wrong direction (against its bias), and that goes nicely with the intent of allowing only one side of AC current from the alternator to pass through without damaging the diode......because the amps from the alternator are within the amp range the diode was made to handle.
    When you commit the reverse polarity sin with an automotive charging system, you are effectively tasking the diode to carry a massive amp load back through the stator windings and ultimately back to ground.
    And because the fuse is designed to protect the electrical system from damage due to current overload, the fuse pops.
    Occasionally (but not very often), a diode might survive a reverse polarity event where the fuse popped before the diode melted together.
    And to be realistic about the damage done when a reverse polarity event occurs.............the damage to the diode usually causes the diode to become OPEN, not SHORTED.

    So, the prospect of a diode being shorted and passing continuous, pure, unrefined AC to the battery is impossible.
    What is possible is for a diode to have its bias altered somewhat in that it might allow SOME AC to pass at intermittent times, and that would show up as a transient event if you connected a volt meter to the system with the meter set to AC scale instead of DC (as suggested by bill kapaun).
    But even if the diode was allowing some transient AC to pass the diode, that WOULD NOT raise the voltage level of the electrical system.
    Transient AC in a strictly DC venue will result in effective LOWERING of the battery state of charge because every DC pulse of current ADDS a bit of charge to the battery.
    Every AC pulse of current ADDS a bit of charge, but then immediately SUBTRACTS a bit of charge.
    You would think this might be an equal "give and take" resulting in "no change". But remember, every time a transient AC pulse enters the mix, it means one less DC pulse that would have charged the battery, or put another way...........an AC pulse negated some charge intended for the battery.

    The voltage level of the electrical system in this instance is determined by the SIZE of the components (flywheel magnets) and their frequency (engine RPM).
    Briggs has engineered this system to be a somewhat loose match between charging system output and the electrical needs of the machine.
    It is anticipated (by Briggs) that the STARTER is the ONLY DC operated component on the machine and that it will only be operated briefly to start the engine. Once the engine is running, the alternator will SLOWLY (at a rate of not more than 4 amps) replace whatever charge was withdrawn from the battery during cranking the engine. Briggs calculated this to require an average time of 30 minutes to around one hour to bring the battery standing voltage back up.
    The problem with an unregulated system is that it has no way of accounting for variables, such as engine RPM and/or long run times.
    I think the engineers have done a remarkable job of figuring out the AVERAGES to enable such a simplistic version of charging system to meet nearly all needs in the applications where it is used.
    But if you toss in some "unforeseens", like too many RPM, or run all day long (dependent of course on fuel tank capacity), or a battery that is too small for the application, a battery that is not filled to the correct level of electrolyte (yes, having a battery low on electrolyte is equal to having a battery with lesser capacity).
    Any or all these things might contribute to having a system voltage rise higher than is optimum for the battery life.
    It might be money well spent to install a "volt meter" (dash gauge) on this tractor and watch what happens with the charging system as the machine is used, from cranking at the start of a use cycle, to final shut down when the job is done.
    If it seems that the the charging system is a bit too robust, then we may have to discuss some options.
    but I would want to know for sure just how much "too robust" the system was before trying to bring it in line.

    The Briggs service manual states that over charging can be caused by excessive vibration on the battery, caused by inadequate mounting brackets etc. (though I am at a loss to connect vibration of a battery to raising the charge level).
    It also states about the battery being too small for the application or if the battery is damaged.

  • Pusher
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow Mowie, Bill, Others, you guys are outstanding. To answer/clarify a couple of the questions asked:

    1. I acquired the mower secondhand about nine years ago. Since that time I have done routine maintenance including pulling the engine and replacing the shaft and oil seals.
    2. The new battery is listed as having 365 CA at 32 degrees. I am not sure what the former battery was rated.
    3. When the previous battery blew (literally ripped the case apart) I had just finished mowing (run time at full engine speed about 1 hour). I went to restart the mower to pull it into the garage and when I turned the key was when it exploded. (Just as information it was very hot and humid that day.) Prior to the event, the mower started easily from the battery (no need for external charging or jumping). Also, the battery cables did not have any corrosion on them.
    4. I believe full engine speed (RPMs) have been constant since I acquired the mower. I will have to figure a way to test the engine speed to insure that it is not running too fast.

    Having read the responses, it appears that the diode is not used to regulate current, only direction. Because the main fuse did not blow, and the battery is remaining charged, the diode should be ok and not need to be replaced? If you do suggest replacing the diode, can the fitting be taken apart and a new diode installed? (I am aware of the need to check for proper direction/current flow.) Also, there is a dash meter that indicates a positive charge on the battery while the tractor is in operation. Although there is a slight “bouncing” movement of the meter’s needle, it remains in the ok operation range. (I was not really sure how much I trusted the gauge and used my volt meter instead.) Again, the last time I finished mowing with the tractor my volt meter indicated between 15.8 to 16 volts at the battery with the tractor running fully throttle, which I believe is excessive and damaging for the battery. Again, thanks for all of your input.

  • bill_kapaun
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A charging battery generates hydrogen gas.
    Excessive charging generates a lot more.
    Some battery explosions are simply a bad connection on the post that generates a spark igniting the gas.

    The diode simply acts as a check valve.
    It allows the positive pulse of the AC Sine wave to pass through, but blocks the negative half. The result is a pulsating DC current,

    You still didn't specify if you had your meter set on DC or AC.
    Not trying to be insulting, but many posters aren't even aware of the different ranges. The turn the dial until it reads "something".

    A diode can also be mechanically damaged by being twisted around etc., causing it to short.
    Use the OHMs function of your meter (you may have to try several scales) and check the diode in both directions.
    It should conduct one direction, but not the other.

  • Pusher
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bill, Thanks for the information. The meter was set for DC. Can you advise how the diode is removed for testing. I unplugged the connection immediately downstream of the diode. Does the black boot/covering where the diode is located pull out from the plastic connector to gain access to the diode? Thanks

  • mownie
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If you unplug the connector (as you stated) you can use the terminal inside the connector for one test lead, but (and per Briggs recommendations) you may pierce the insulation of the wire upstream from the diode using a safety pin or a straight pin, or you can purchase electrical probes to do the same.
    Once you have pierced the insulation, you put the second test lead of Ohmmeter onto the pin or probe to do the test of the diode.
    I am not an advocate of poking holes in wires, but sometimes you have to.
    I always seal the hole up with super glue or RTV smeared on the prick point if I can't slip a piece of heat shrinkable sealant tubing over the wire to cover the hole.
    I have also used a product known as "liquid electrical tape" which is a brush in can vinyl plastic compound that you paint onto the wires and I like it too.

    After learning your new battery has 365 CA I can say that your battery is not too small for the system.

    Because the earliest history of this engine is not known, it is possible that somebody somewhere put an incorrect flywheel on the engine.
    It might be a good idea to test the AC voltage output of the stator by disconnecting the stator connector as in the diode test above, except this time the engine will be running and you will set the voltmeter to AC scale.
    With the engine running at governed RPM, touch one test lead to the pin or probe in the stator wire upstream from the diode and touch the other test lead to a clean engine ground.
    This will reveal the maximum AC VOLTAGE that is being output by the stator and flywheel.
    If your engine has the correct components to match the Dual Circuit system, the maximum voltage should be 14 volts (at 3,600 RPM).
    If the voltage shows to be about 16 volts or so, I think your engine is doing too many RPM.
    If the voltage shows to be around 28 volts, someone has done some mismatching of stator/flywheel in the past.
    If the voltage shows to be 40 volts.................oh boy! Someone has really gone overboard with the wrong parts.
    My gut feeling on this is "too many RPM" but I have been wrong before.

  • bill_kapaun
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mownie-
    Aren't you supposed to have 14 VAC on the lighting side and 28 VAC on the diode side?
    Since the diode blocks the negative part of the sine wave, only a 14 V "pulse" would pass through the diode (minus the "couple tenths" voltage drop of the diode)

    OP, you might just check the lighting side first and see if that is the "normal" 14 VAC. IF it's 16ish (or more), that would tend to indicate problems.

    This post was edited by bill_kapaun on Fri, Aug 2, 13 at 9:55

  • exmar zone 7, SE Ohio
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Very interesting topic going here. Wondering if the trees aren't getting in the way of the view of the forest though?

    If there's 16VDC at the battery AND this isn't a regulated power supply which it isn't with just a diode that would indicate there's no current flow. Is there a meter on the tractor and does it indicate current going into the battery at the 16VDC reading? Is the OP taking a reading on the cable connector or on the "lug" that physically goes into the battery? Maybe a high resistance connection between the two which would indicate 16VDC but it's an "unloaded" voltage, e.g. no voltage drop to pull it down to 12+.

    Still wondering how or why the original battery exploded.

    Ev

  • tomplum
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You do see this from time to time and it seems to be taxing on batteries in the long run. IE the guy that gets a new battery every 2 years. Usually it gets picked up on a PM , you clean, service, check and watch the meter just tick upward. 32, 33, 3500 RPMS not seeming to change the factor by any great margin. Not referring to the OP specifically here, I see enough times where a new battery is put on -sometimes not using a wrench at all by the looseness of the terminals as it starts to create other issues- which as pointed out above a spark and a battery doing its thing don't mix.

  • mownie
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The engine in this thread is fitted with the Dual Circuit charging system.
    According to what I can glean from the Briggs Engine/Alternator Replacement Guide, the stator in the Dual Circuit system is (should be) able to output 14 volts AC.
    Whether you are checking the dedicated AC terminal, or the DC lead (upstream from the diode)........the voltage valve ought to be the same, whether AC or DC.
    Rectifying 28 VAC does not yield 14 VDC.
    Rectifying 28 VAC yields 28 VDC, but in half sine pulses.
    Rectifying 14 VAC yields 14 VAC in half sine pulses.

    In a rectified, but unregulated system, observed battery/system voltage will climb to reach the exact (or near) voltage value of the charging source ONLY when the battery has ABSORBED its optimum charge. If the battery is still lacking some charge, the observed voltage of the battery/system will be LESS than the final voltage the charging system is capable of.
    ONLY after the battery is completely saturated (charged up) to its optimum point will you be able to observe a voltage level that matches the design parameters of the charging system.
    So, if you are observing a voltmeter connected to the battery/system of a Dual Circuit system, and the battery is not TOTALLY CHARGED already.......you will not see 14 VDC.
    Remember, this is one of the minimalist DC charging systems 2-4 amps max, so if the battery is not yet fully saturated, the VOLTAGE observed will be less than the design maximum output voltage of the charging system.
    As the battery nears saturation, the observed voltage value will raise.
    If the battery reaches the maximum state of charge on an unregulated charging system, the battery/system voltage will continue to climb, until it matches the ACTUAL output voltage that the charging system is making at that time.
    And any time you exceed the optimum voltage of a battery, you are not actually charging the battery any longer, you are simply carrying on electrolysis, and boiling the juice out of the battery.

    If this engine in this thread is outputting more than 14 volts (AC or DC), I believe it will be due to excess RPM.

  • bill_kapaun
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mownie-
    I was looking at some Craftsman schematics with the same system and they showed 28 VAC on the alternator side of the diode.
    Of course we know about "some" Craftsman schematics........

  • ericwi
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    In general, lead/acid storage batteries will last longer if they are securely clamped down. They are adversely affected by excess vibration. Since the owner has spent some time getting this lawn tractor maintained and operational, he might want to modify the wiring with a voltage regulator, to keep the battery from overcharging in the future. It would be easy to install a voltmeter at the same time, to keep an eye on what the charging system is doing.

  • bill_kapaun
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    ".. he might want to modify the wiring with a voltage regulator, to keep the battery from overcharging in the future."

    How much do you think this idea would cost?
    New flywheel >$200+
    Stator $40-60
    Regulator $30

  • ericwi
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It would be possible to purchase n=10 5 amp diodes, pn 50SQ080, at 85 cents each, and build up a system for keeping the battery charged, without overcharging. Four diodes are used to make a full wave bridge, & this assembly will lower the stator AC voltage by one volt. To further reduce the DC voltage, at the battery (+) terminal, additional diodes are wired in series, forward bias, as needed. Each diode reduces the voltage by 0.52V. If the DC voltage at the bridge output measures 15V, then 5 diodes in series will lower the voltage at the battery terminal by 5X0.52=2.60V. That would result in 12.4 volts at the (+) battery terminal, and should eliminate overcharging. This is a straightforward circuit that is easy to build and troubleshoot. The starting point is to find out the actual AC voltage that the stator is producing, over a range of operating RPM.

  • bill_kapaun
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A ONE input/output Bridge rectifier?

  • Pusher
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Original poster back with an update. I was able to measure voltage on the unit and this is what I found. On DC mode at the battery with engine not running 12.8 volts. Testing upstream of the diode with the meter on AC 16.6 volts (at full throttle). Testing at the battery connection in DC mode about 16.4 volts (at full throttle). By lowering the speed of the mower I was able to drop the voltage as measured at the battery to around 14 volts with still plenty of power to run the tractor and mow the yard. I am thinking that the engine speed on the tractor may be excessive as suggested. (I do not have an RPM or tach to determine engine speed.) Can you tell me if this engine has a mechanical governor that can be adjusted or is it adjusted simply through the throttle cable? Thanks for all of your input.

  • bill_kapaun
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    " Testing upstream of the diode with the meter on AC 16.6 volts (at full throttle)"
    Is this with the battery connected?
    IF so, the diode is shorted because you shouldn't be getting AC, just DC.
    IF the battery is disconnected, you may getting a slight "bleed through" of the AC.
    Meters, especially the newer ones, draw so little current that you can sometimes get a false reading.

  • mownie
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Testing as indicated in the image below will disclose the maximum, AC voltage output of the CHARGING leg of the stator.
    AC is tested by putting on test meter lead to the wire upstream of the diode with the white connector halves separated. You will have to prick the wire insulation as described earlier in this thread.
    If you want to check for transient AC, put your test meter on AC scale and touch one lead to the battery positive post and the other lead to the battery negative post, or any good ground point.

  • moresquirt
    9 years ago

    Excellent info,had exact same problem when i bought a 11hp briggs and stratton with a blown engine and installed a 12 hp briggs to replace it but battery was showing 16 volts,My 11hp was a basic unit with no regulator also, the new used engine either had a reg or a different flywheel and stator so am about to pull the old stuff off the blown motor and hope this is the problem.I tested the Diode as per info above and its good,tested stator running on high rpm and got 28VAC .Got a question,could i just change out the flywheel or must i also change the stator from the 11 hp,thx Both engines were built in 88 same month which was i thought was a conincidence.

  • moresquirt
    9 years ago

    Forgot to mention,i checked torque setting on line for the 12 hp flywheel nut and it shows 145 lbs,is that possible,seems really high,model is #281707 Type #0182-01 thx again warren

  • johnlohanley
    8 years ago

    I own a 14.5 hp Briggs and Stratton lawn tractor with the dual-circuit non regulated charging system. I wanted to improve the lighting on the lawn tractor; so I chose 18 watt 1.4 amp @12volt; 6"x3" Led lights. I mounted two on the front bumper, and one on the back of the operators seat. I disconnected the original factory 1156 bayonet bulbs which were virtuously useless. The two front Led lights are using the unregulated AC circuit and the rear Led is connected to the DC circuit through a relay and switch. Then I mounted a Volt gauge to the dash to monitor the effects of these modifications. I also added an inductive tachometer/hourmeter. Upon starting; the voltage rose until it peaked at 17.5 Volts. The two front Led lights running off the AC circuit were on at this time. The rear Led light was not. When the rear light was activated, the Volts dropped to 16.8. This was unacceptable. So I wired the original incandescant lights to my DC mini fuse panel which feeds the aftercare solenoid, volt guage, and the relay for the rear Led light. This resulted in having the original lights and the two Led lights on the bumper lit all the time the engine is running. Now the voltage was 13 volts and 12 volts with the rear light on. This was a little too low; so I replaced the original incandescent bulbs which were 26 watt, 2 amp each with 10 watt 1 amp each bulbs. This now gives me 15 volts and 13 volts with the rear light on. The voltage with the engine off is 12.4 volts. Hope this information helps in some small way.

  • rexlex
    8 years ago

    john - did you account for the addtl elect pto current draw (if so equipped?)..


  • johnlohanley
    8 years ago

    My lawn tractor does not have a PTO; it's manual engagement of the deck blades with a lever.

  • rexlex
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    then for anyone following this thread, that fact should be taken into account, as a typical electrical pto clutch pulls around 6 amps when energized...

  • johnlohanley
    8 years ago

    I would suggest if your lawn tractor has an electric PTO clutch it almost certainly has a voltage regulator and this problem of overcharging would not apply.

  • rexlex
    8 years ago

    wouldn't bet my ride on it and doubt that the average shade tree mechanic will pick up on such differences until it's too late....your basic idea is OK - these cautionary notes are for those that might jump on the idea w/o recognizing some of the potential pitfalls... that's all. I'm outta here.


  • wheelhorse_of_course
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Back to the OP.

    1) 13.8 volts is perfectly normal

    2) 16 volts is not

    3) The meter can make a difference. At the diode you have half-rectified AC superimposed on the DC voltage when the engine is running. At the battery end of the cable you have something similar but not exactly the same. My point is that it is not AC, but it really isn't DC either. Digital meters do not all handle AC the same (when buying one look for one that states "True RMS" for the CA volts.). Ideally use an analog meter and be sure to take the reading from the same place each time.

    This is mostly "a word to the wise", but it could be relevant.

    4) Given no regulator, the real question here is why would there have been different voltages at the time of the two tests. Engine RPM should be the only thing that would change it (in an unregulated system).

  • Raymond Parkinson
    8 years ago

    I have the same problem, that Pusher has. Minus the destroyed battery. Seems the easiest solution, would be to add a voltage regulator. Can someone supply a wiring diagram to do so ? Thanks rparky

  • nordy24
    8 years ago

    AfterA great discussion about electrical which I know a little about being I'm in auto mechanic I had the same problem with my mower and after tinkering for 2 to 3 hourshours and a six packI simply fixed mine by adjusting the throttle cable which reinforces the high rpm problem

  • Raymond Parkinson
    8 years ago

    Thanks for the come back, nordy24; I have a analog meter wired into the electrical system. I found a wire that turned off with the ignition key, & permanently wired in the meter. When I start to use the tractor, I hold down the rpm's, when the voltage meter reach's 14 volts. It will hold 14 volts for a few minutes, & then begin to climb. Before I'm done, its at 16 volts. If I put a meter on the battery, It's also 16 volts. Does this every time I use it. Its probably been this way since new, its a 2000 Murray W/14.5 hp Briggs. I just never noticed, until I added the voltage meter. Doesn't seem to boil the battery, I only use it for about 1hr at a time. It's just frustrating.

  • gearwise1958
    8 years ago

    I have a Briggs and stratton 20 hp 407777 that I checked the stator (black wires) and found 34 VAC. the battery was not charging, only 12.87 at starting. Followed process and installed new voltage regulator, still no charge at battery??????? Should not the red wire at the new voltage regulator give me 13+ VDC volts to the battery?? I checked the red wire all the way down to the voltage regulator and had same voltage as the battery.

  • rexlex
    8 years ago

    mght want to have that battery load tested...

  • wheelhorse_of_course
    8 years ago

    Presence of 13 volts or more is a sign the charging system is working, but the fact it isn't present does not prove the charging system is bad. Also keep in mind the DC from the charging system isn't really DC, it is rectified AC. Not all meters will give sound readings. Use an analog meter if you have one.

  • Raymond Parkinson
    8 years ago

    I do have a analog volt meter wired into the system. Its active, when the ignition switch is in the run position. As stated earlier, I can hold the RPM's down, so the meter reads 14 volts. After a few minutes, the meter, will rise to 16 volts. Its the same, even if I install a new battery.

  • wheelhorse_of_course
    8 years ago

    I was responding to gearwise regarding meters. Gearwise, what happens if you disconnect the battery while the engine is running. If the voltage jumps up to 13 volts or higher your problem is probably the battery.


    Raymond, it sounds like you have a "budget" system on your engine. You certainly could add a regulator fairly easily, but since the battery does not seem to be boiling it is probably not worth the bother! If you want details on how to upgrage let us know and you will probably get more than one suggestion.


  • johnlohanley
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I'm back with an update. Running the two Led lights on the front of the tractor off the AC circuit didn't produce the expected light output since they would receive only half power. So I returned the AC factory circuit to original and tied the front lights into my mini fuse panel from the key switch to give them 12v DC. Much better light output as you would expect. This upgrade of the lighting system occurred during the lawn tractors second season. This is an important factor in that in it's first season of ownership it was completely factory. Looking back; that first season of approx. 40 hours of use did damage the original battery. This spring I had to replace the battery because it wouldn't hold a charge. It is a U1 150 CCA battery. I replaced it with a 300 CCA battery. Now the voltage has changed; such that when running it maxes out at 15.8 volts with no lights on (other than the factory 1156 bulbs which are on all the time). If I turn on the single rear Led light the voltage drops to 14.9 volts; which is acceptable. If I turn on just the two front Led lights the voltage drops to low 13's. I don't run all the Led lights at the same time. Only need the rear light when dumping my lawn sweeper; and then I turn off the front lights before turning on the rear light and vice versa. So If I run for an extended period of time with the front Led lights on; before I shutdown I will have to let the system build up voltage with the lights off to ensure the battery is fully charged for next time. Just as a footnote: There have been suggestions made that excessive RPM's are at fault but my lawn tractor parked at full throttle won't exceed 3300 rpm; and when cutting it ranges between 3100-2900 rpm. Also Briggs and Stratton emphasize that the engine should always be at full throttle when in use; especially at shutdown so it won't backfire. All for now; John.

  • blainejohnson78
    7 years ago

    guys,,, help, please. i have an old briggs 14.5hp that i have put on an old snapper. engine model num 287707. it cranks and runs like a top but does not charge the batt. the duel circuit stator was reading about 10vdc when running at almost full throttle and the a/c side is reading about 13/14vac. got a funny reading on my meter when i ohmed it out. engine was off and the dc side reads open to ground. that is good. the a/c side is reading a direct short. since i do not have any lights on the snapper and just to see what would happen, i disconnected the a/c side of my stator (cut the wire at the plug). after starting it up again, battery volts was at 17 to 18vdc. wow!! what the heck happened???

  • tim philpot
    3 years ago

    I have a 23 horse Briggs that at full throttle reads 16.5 volts charging into battery.
    This is not good .
    I need at the most 14 volts because I have a electric PTO clutch.
    It has to be between 13.4 - 14 volts so the PTO clutch does not burn up .
    Too high or too low and clutch will burn up.
    How can I remedy this problem?

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