Return to the Tractors Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
fuse in the grounding circuit of my huskee 22 hp garden tractor

Posted by cliedo1 none (My Page) on
Thu, Aug 22, 13 at 2:12

i recently replaced the motor in my huskee garden tractor. connected all the electrical connections. Started the tractor and all went as normal. Installed the electronic pto and started the tractor and there was smoke from somewhere on the engine. After testing and guessing the manufacturer did not put the correct electrical diagram in the owners manual. I found 3 fuses where the diagram only showed one. One on the battery one on the pto and one in the negative wire going from the battery to frame. all were fused with 30 amp fuse. Now nothing works except the starter and the anti-afterfire solenoid. I replaced the ignition switch which was burned up. The carburator is not allowing gas to be delivered to the cylinders. The motor is a Briggs & Stratton 22 hp inteck i/c ohv deer engine 9 amp 1"x3-5/32 #407777-0188


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: fuse in the grounding circuit of my huskee 22 hp garden tract

the model is a 2000 pro cut series, number 14av807p131


 o
RE: fuse in the grounding circuit of my huskee 22 hp garden tract

I found the owners manual on the mtd site but it did not include the electrical diagram which is in my hard copy of the owners manual


 o
RE: fuse in the grounding circuit of my huskee 22 hp garden tract

i did all that briggs & stratton indicated on the tables that is posted on their website and still no fuel flow, i know the solenoid is working per visual watching it pull in


 o
RE: fuse in the grounding circuit of my huskee 22 hp garden tract

I changed out the coils from the engine that was running perfectly but leaking oil, gapped the coil to a .010 for general and did a spark thing with an indicator that safely detects sparks from the coils


 o
RE: fuse in the grounding circuit of my huskee 22 hp garden tract

  • Posted by ericwi Dane County WI (My Page) on
    Thu, Aug 22, 13 at 11:39

Since the published wiring diagram does not match up with the wiring on your tractor, you will have to make your own wiring diagram in order to get this unit up & running. Also, you will need a volt-ohmeter for checking connections, finding potential shorts, and confirming that power is present. All of this is doable, and likely less expensive than a new tractor.


 o
RE: fuse in the grounding circuit of my huskee 22 hp garden tract

Hold on here a second!
Are you installing an identical engine, or is the replacement engine different from what you took out?
If it is different, how about posting the model and type numbers of that engine, and also tell us if the old engine has an anti-afterfire solenoid on the carb.
It might (at some point) be required that you post some pictures of things in lieu of diagrams/schematics.
Did you replace that key switch before.....or after....the smoke?
Where did you source that new key switch from?
And yes, you are going to need a VOM and/or 12 volt test light to determine some facts about the wiring.


 o
RE: fuse in the grounding circuit of my huskee 22 hp garden tract

I have never replaced the ignition switch before this situation happened. There was no continuity between the b and the n and the a1 at the run setting. After receiving the new switch and compared settings with the new and old it was evident a surge of current back flowed through the switch


 o
RE: fuse in the grounding circuit of my huskee 22 hp garden tract

And that still leaves my other questions unanswered.
???


 o
RE: fuse in the grounding circuit of my huskee 22 hp garden tract

Both engines have the same model number on the valve covers. The type numbers are different. the replaced engine has the number 0128 e1, and the replacement engine has the number 0188 b1. Both have anti-afterfire solenoids. The switch was cross referenced and purchased at an authorized distributer locally.


 o
RE: fuse in the grounding circuit of my huskee 22 hp garden tract

The carburetor was just after the fact and can be discussed on another posting. I will place


 o
RE: fuse in the grounding circuit of my huskee 22 hp garden tract

Both engines have the same model number on the valve covers. The type numbers are different. the replaced engine has the number 0128 e1, and the replacement engine has the number 0188 b1. Both have anti-afterfire solenoids. The switch was cross referenced and purchased at an authorized distributer locally.


 o
RE: fuse in the grounding circuit of my huskee 22 hp garden tract

I was curious about why a fuse would be installed between the negative post of the battery and the chassis ground which I know that a fuse is placed in a circuit that does not have a grounding strap to the same point. there should have been no current because the battery was the ground.
I do know how and was trained on the theory of why meters/indicaters are used and why, I wrote all the things down which i mean the data of the engine model and type and code, Which the manufacturers, print on the owners manual to give when asked by an authorized service repair establishment. It still puzzles me or curiousity on why a fuse would be in a grounded circut
The only thing i can think of , is someone forgot to ground to the chassis ie motor some part was not soldered properly, probably the electomotive mechanical, ie. pto clutch. sorta for some who know that a pump can be a motor, or a motor can be a pump, depends on which one is driving, It is a theory that can be have loads of ideas, It happened to me, the only reasoning while persuing and I am not an engineer is the pto clutch was in someway responsible, I will do a highpot test on the suspected part, I will respond to this post I am still curious,,,, my quote is why the hell would a fuse be put in a grounded circuit. when the battery is the ground


 o
RE: fuse in the grounding circuit of my huskee 22 hp garden tract

Cliedo, can you post some pictures showing the Fused Ground Wire connections at both ends of the wire?
The only reason (that I can think of) for even having fused ground circuit would be if there was some type of isolated (think "double insulated") electrical device that routinely used a ground circuit to dissipate a voltage spike that occurs when an electromagnetic coil circuit is opened. The device an coil I have in mind is the PTO clutch. Some PTO clutches utilize a "snubber diode" to shunt high voltage spikes that occur the moment the PTO switch opens.........so that the self induced spike is drained harmlessly to ground instead of arcing across the contacts of the PTO switch and burning them.
But a fused circuit incorporated into the wiring in such a scenario would be an "isolated ground" that connected directly to the GROUND lead of the PTO clutch harness. NOT from the Battery Negative terminal to a common chassis ground.

Snubber diodes can be damaged by a high amp reverse polarity event (such as attempting a boost start with battery jumper cables connected backward, or......connecting the machine battery backward). In order for a snubber diode in the PTO clutch to be harmed by a reverse polarity event, 2 other conditions would have to met in addition to the reversed battery poles.........the key switch would have to be ON (run or start) and the PTO switch would have to be ON.

What about your voltage regulator? Do both engines have identical regulators and the same wiring coming from under the engine shroud?


 o
RE: fuse in the grounding circuit of my huskee 22 hp garden tract

no, the replaced engine has the 10/16 amp regulator and the replacement engine has the 5/9 amp regulator, I did not know that a snubbing diode was in the circuit for having a fuse. which i found none. The clutch in question was 717-1709. Curious why would such high amperage fuse be placed seems like the fuse for the clutch would be lower and not the same. The snubbing resistor should have taken the voltage to ground and not prevent current from burning up the ignition switch as everyone knows a diode is a check valve Thank you mowie that answered my question. I am totally impressed. I am going to wire it up where i can read the diagram and know that the diode is placed and where. I am rewiring it, and want 13 more yrs out of this tractor


 o
RE: fuse in the grounding circuit of my huskee 22 hp garden tract

I checked the clutch and both wires are black.


 o
RE: fuse in the grounding circuit of my huskee 22 hp garden tract

I connected the clutch with the switch off and the battery disconnected I was so impressed with the engine runnning and driving the tractor around my yard. I was so on the mindset of do not get the cart in front of the horse. It has been a learning experience. I don't have the time to research the web, while between working and having the time to repair the machinery I own. The ole huskee 22 hp 50 inch mower deck and the 2 stage snowblower and the fastattached system that is why I bought the replacement engine


 o
RE: fuse in the grounding circuit of my huskee 22 hp garden tract

I just was searching for an explanation on the pto and found the burnishing of the pto, which was interesting. Just search in the favorite browser you use I am the owner and user of the garden tractor that i am learning about. not a business


 o
RE: fuse in the grounding circuit of my huskee 22 hp garden tract

And I don't KNOW that a snubber diode is in the circuit on your Huskee either.
I was just stating that I could not come up with a scenario that explains having a fused in a ground circuit that simply seemed like somebody's attempt an adding another ground.
So, are we working on getting some pictures posted here of this stuff?
When it comes to DIY electrical work, I have seen a few "dillies" in my time.
Ponder this one I discovered. Had a machine come to me that somebody had wired in some kind of contraption themselves (don't know what it had been cause it was not present). The person did the wiring himself. The feed circuit (battery positive) began at the battery positive post as nothing but about 4 inches of bare wire wrapped around the battery post and a small hose clamp screwed down to "secure" the wiring. This wire had not 1, but 2......15 amp inline fuse holders (with fuses), in SERIES configuration.
So when I talk of things that might be done for a reason, I might be speculating if there is not a sound reason for it being there. And I can state unequivocally that there is no logic in wiring in 2 fuse holders serial fashion on any circuit.

So, this fused ground wire.............does it look OEM or home made?
Are you still getting smoke?


 o
RE: fuse in the grounding circuit of my huskee 22 hp garden tract

the fuse was not homemade, it was oem, and I will show the colors of the wire on which the fuse holder had once i figure out how to upload a photo. to the website. The fuse in the ground wire sent a surge that now i do not have to have the coils joined. Seems the coils ground each other out. Strange but true. I know it is a safety problem if the grounding from the chassis to the ignition switch fails. I will put all the the testing results in this forum. I think i was intoxicated when I set the ignition coils to .030 small engine basics 101 when i was younger, I passed with good grades, now an ole fart I forgot about when purchasing the coils keep the flaps of the box. Anyways i got another ole fart to invite another ole fart to help diagnose the problem of not firing the plugs. seems the ole playing card Ace of diamonds works, but the laminates that make up each coil have sharp corners when the magnet passes the legs there can be a violent clash of mass.After the 3rd ole fart say unplug the the grounding wire and the engine started and ran not the ole fart but the engine. I placed the chassis ground wire in a location with not a fuse inline where anyone can see. the ground. Then I got the bright idea. lets unplug the "G" wire from the switch, since i have the ground wire securely fastened to the chassis. The engine continued to run and run with the switch turned off. the only way the engine stopped was when i connected the "G" on the switch with the grounding wire did the engine stop. I put what made the motor and pto work, with no fuse between the ground and all the rest with one 15 amp fuse "the old addage better go less for more works well" electrical wise. the motor runs the pto works but still curious on why would a manufacturer put the fuse where every "motorhead would not put one because of a firery outcome. I will be continuing to rewire the tractor. there are 3 things I want to know. first is the battery charging i.e. amp meter second is the oil sensing light working indicating low oil. when wife uses the tractor. Lastly shutting down in an emergency grounding the coils to each other. It has been a learning experience, the garden tractor mows the lawn and wife is happy. will put more information later


 o
RE: fuse in the grounding circuit of my huskee 22 hp garden tract

The picture gets fuzzier and fuzzier without any pictures to accompany the meandering tale.
Let me direct you to a recent thread (click link at bottom of this post) in which the form and function of the Briggs V Twin ignition kill circuits is discussed at great length. This thread was opened and finished before you signed up as a member.
You will not read it all. I just know that.
Now to try and address the ***" 3 things I want to know."***
1...***"first is the battery charging i.e. amp meter"***
RESPONSE...
I don't know because you don't give any description of what that ammeter is doing.
But from the rest of your posts I would have to suspect it might probably not be charging.
If the charging system is working, and the ammeter is even wired up correctly............the indicator needle should move to the PLUS side of the gauge face for at least a few minutes AFTER you start the engine (engine must be near full governed RPM for charging).
2...***" second is the oil sensing light working indicating low oil"***
RESPONSE...
NO, it is not an indicator of low oil. It is an indicator of LOW OIL PRESSURE.

The only reasonable and reliable indicator of low oil is the manual oil level gauge, also known as the OIL DIPSTICK. (do not confuse it with other types of "dipsticks").
The only way to guard against engine failure (due to low oil level) is to check the oil level by following the instructions in the owner's manual.
The oil level should be checked each and every time BEFORE THE ENGINE IS USED. This means prior to using it and between use cycles if you must stop and refill the fuel tank.

In lieu of following the instructions in the OM to determine if the oil level is sufficient, there are 2 alternate methods (signs) for "guessing" that the oil level might be low.
A. You notice a piston connecting rod protruding from a new hole in the engine block.
B. Engine refuses to rotate even when a 6' breaker bar with socket wrench is used on the flywheel nut.
3...***" Lastly shutting down in an emergency grounding the coils to each other."***
RESPONSE...
I don't understand your use of the term "emergency".
Try to read through the thread found by clicking the link I provided and it might "click" for you about how the 2 coils are separated from each other, and how they are connected to a COMMON GROUND for routinely shutting down the engine.
Now get to work on posting pictures on here. :^)

Here is a link that might be useful: Curiouser and curiouser


 o
RE: fuse in the grounding circuit of my huskee 22 hp garden tract

my garden tractor is running perfectly though i may have to adjust the valves,,, compression checked at 120 lbs at #2 cylinder and 80 lbs at the #1 cylinder. and yes i dont need but have a clamp on ampmeter to see if it is charging or not I am laughing while typing this. Sometimes us ole farts forget, anyways what is the best carburator cleaner for a b&s engine.


 o
RE: fuse in the grounding circuit of my huskee 22 hp garden tract

***" what is the best carburator cleaner for a b&s engine."***
The kind that is sold in a spray can in the automotive chemicals section of your favorite discount store?
I am laughing too, but probably not for the same reason as you?


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Tractors Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here