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bigmike_91

starter issues

bigmike_91
10 years ago

ok so i know my solenoid is bad but i figured if i jump it i could still start it.......when i jump it though the starter just turns the engine half way over and just makes a loud buzzing sound....its a troy bilt pony 17.5 hp 42 in deck......could the starter be bad...i took the starter off and jumped the starter and the gear pops up and spins but when i put it back on it just spins it half way any help would be appreciated

Comments (19)

  • mownie
    10 years ago

    First thing here is to make absolutely certain the battery is good, and that it is fully charged.
    Nothing less than having the battery load tested can tell whether the battery is capable of cranking the engine.
    Second, what kind of engine is this? If it is a Briggs & Stratton, the valves probably need adjusting so the compression release works effectively.
    The buzzing sound you hear only indicates that the starter is being stalled, whether that stall is due to a weak battery or because the compression release is ineffectual is unknown at this point.
    How come you think the starter solenoid is bad?

  • bigmike_91
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    i was jumping the starter with a batter charger and the solenoid is bad cause there is no power after the solenoid it just clicks....i pulled the solenoid and it is melted on one end......yes its a brigs...it was running yesterday and i can rotate the engine by hand so i dont think its the valves...

  • bigmike_91
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    was jumping the starter with the battery charger while the starter was still in place

  • mownie
    10 years ago

    OK, how much will it cost you to adjust the valves?
    How much will it cost you to replace the starter?
    I ask because usually people come here and explain that they have replaced the battery and replaced the solenoid and replaced the starter and replaced the key switch and replaced all the safety switches...................only to find out later that it only needed a valve adjustment.
    You have no idea how often the scenario has been repeated.

  • bill_kapaun
    10 years ago

    Mownie gave you excellent advice.

  • mla2ofus
    10 years ago

    I've often wondered if the compression release feature is just a scheme to get ignorant,not stupid(there is a difference),people to bring their engines to the shop to get the "won't crank" issue fixed. It seems it would have been easier and cheaper to just have the starter mfgr's build a stronger and maybe larger starter. Everything is getting too many bells and whistles.
    JMHO,
    Mike

  • User
    10 years ago

    Well Mike, along with consumer's lust for more (unnecessary) horsepower in OPE products and the manufacturer's marketing department's zeal for oneupsmanship specifications for their products comes the added cost for small engine manufacturers to redesign their engines to accommodate higher output charging systems to maintain the higher capacity batteries required to spin those larger starters that start those engines without compression releases that have proved so reliable for decades and then there's the added cost factored by profit markups that consumers sure won't want to pay... so you keep wondering.

    When we buy machines that we are not qualified to service we have to make a choice. Either learn how to do the service or pay to have it done. If you're ignorant then learn. If you're stupid then suffer, cause ultimately you'll either pay or lose a lot of money on that OPE you'll end up selling for real cheap. There are small engines that have hydraulic lifters that eliminate routine valve setting maintenance but they are more expensive. More people buy entry level products because that's what they can afford, or they can afford to spend more and choose not to, but are not informed regarding what these entry level products lack and what it would cost to move up the market to gain features that they don't know they really need or would pay for if they knew. Researching a purchase is the buyer's responsibility. When they don't they suffer the consequences, but that doesn't stop them from blaming anyone else for their self induced suffering.

    There is more than enough customer pay service work for dealers to do for owners who ignore doing routine service work and then discover how costly that choice can be and for do it yourselfers who screw it them selves and then scream bloody murder that they should be able to do the work themselves. Accusing small engine manufacturers of designing in a revenue generating feature that only benefits the dealer and doesn't result in increased profit for the manufacturer flies in the face of your statement.

    JMO

  • mownie
    10 years ago

    Well, it does require an understanding of the principles and technique employed by Briggs in the application of their "Easy Spin" compression release concept.
    This concept has permitted Briggs to utilize smaller starters than would otherwise be required to do the same job were it not for the compression release.
    The concept results in a somewhat lighter starter (weight) and can use a less expensive battery (priced as an assembly line item). It also enables use of smaller battery cables and so forth.
    All this gives some extra leverage in the "price point" marketing game insofar as getting a product to market under a budget. Pennies are counted carefully in corporate strategies.
    Briggs is not the only brand of engine that features a compression release, but the Briggs Easy Spin concept achieves its goal without any extra mechanical parts.
    The Briggs compression release does require periodic valve adjustment to keep it working properly.

  • bigmike_91
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    ok ill adjust the valves tomorrow and see if it fixes my problem thanks for the advice

  • wheely_boy
    10 years ago

    Yeah, the valves being out of adjustment probably melted the solenoid.

  • mla2ofus
    10 years ago

    Justalurker, I agree w/ everything you said in the first paragraph. Regarding the lust for extra HP, I own a vivid example in a Dixon 3303 I aquired this spring. It came from the factory w/ a 14 1/2 HP B&S that apparently died. It was replaced w/ an 8 1/2 HP Honda that has no problem cutting the tallest, toughest grass. So it's apparent to me the OPE marketing people decided to go the way of the diesel P/U mfgr's and sell more HP that was unneeded and joe consumer took the bait.
    As for DIY, as a percentage how many OPE buyers are handy enough to know when and how to adjust the valves? So I'm reasonably certain most OPE shops run a lot thru that only need the valves set, So maybe it wasn't part of the marketing strategy but has been a windfall for the OPE shops, dealer or non-dealer.
    Fortunately, due to my father passing on his knowledge to me, I've been working on engines and drive trains for 55yrs so I have no problem setting valve lash on these engines.
    I rest my case,
    Mike

  • mownie
    10 years ago

    Mike, there is a specific procedure for positioning the Briggs engine correctly for setting the valves. This differs slightly from a typical 4 stroke cycle engine valve adjustment technique, but is critical that the Briggs method be adhered to, else the valve adjustment will not be accurate and the results may not leave the compression release in any better order than before.
    You can e-mail me if you want my procedure as you did not include your e-mail in your forum profile.

  • bigmike_91
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    i know the procedure isnt difficult at all....i have been messing with these small engines for a few years now.....i just didnt think that the valves being out of adjustment would stop the starter from turning the engine over....guess we do learn something new everyday

  • bigmike_91
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    alright thanks guys i adjusted the valves and sure enough the starter kicks it over now

  • mla2ofus
    10 years ago

    Mownie, I'm well aware of the adjustment procedure for B&S engines. Appreciate the offer.
    Mike

  • mownie
    10 years ago

    Your welcome. I just wanted to make sure you had the how to to go with the know how. Stumbling blocks for some folks.....easy breezy for others :^)

  • mla2ofus
    10 years ago

    Bigmike, glad you found the problem and got it fixed. That's what these forums are for. Sorry about the hijack.
    Mike

  • mownie
    10 years ago

    @mla2ofus.... Looks like I goofed and should have stated "bigmike" when I made the offer to contact me for a copy of the procedure.
    At the time I did not notice you were signing off as "Mike".
    :^)

  • mla2ofus
    10 years ago

    That's OK, Mownie!! If we get pizzed over something on the web we shouldn't be there. The web is the only place I know of where little people can act big and tough,LOL!!
    Mike

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