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18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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Posted by
jeremy77 46360 (
My Page) on
Tue, Sep 15, 09 at 19:59
OK,I hope everyone here can help me with this. I purchased a craftsman lt2000 riding mower from a friend for $200 w/ a lil motor probs. The model # and engine # are listed in the title.
The problem's are:
Once warmed up it dies.
Once running and blades are engaged it wants to die w/ a lil smoke. The mech governor arm was loose. so I tightened it where I think it belongs, and the throttle linkage was bent so I straightened.
The things that have been done by previous owner:
New plug, fuel line w/ filter, air and pre-cleaner, and coil.
I rebuilt the carb to just be on the safe side. Does anyone have a "how to" for adjusting the valves(I think this is the next step) and something so I can verify the proper location for the mech governor? Any and all help on this would be greatly appreciated...
Jeremy
jdragon@live.com |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: 18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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| the govenor arm has to be adjusted with throtlewide open.with gov arm loose moove in same direction as throtle all the way then wile holding it there tighten the bolt. that should place gov arm in the right place |
RE: 18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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| " Does anyone have a "how to" for adjusting the valves(I think this is the next step) and something so I can verify the proper location for the mech governor? " Yes, address below, put in proper format. Walt Conner
wconner5 at verizon dot net |
RE: 18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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| Thanks guys. On the governor arm, should the pin (that goes into the block)be at a spacific "clock" position? or would it be better for me to just remove the arm and let the pin rest where it does, then re attach the arm at full throttle? Thanks in advance. Jeremy |
RE: 18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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| With throttle adjustment lever at "full" and with choke still fully open, I believe the governor "pin" or shaft entering the engine and the governor arm should BOTH move as far as possible toward same direction as throttle, then tighten the nut on the arm. This is the method on a Kawasaki and should be the same. If I'm incorrect, someone please correct me. Also, if it dies when warm, I recently had a 18 hp briggs that had a bad coil. Get a spark tester at Autozone ($7.99) and test the plug wire or wires once the engine dies. I had a coil that would heat up and one cylinder would cut out. The spark tester will insure a adequate spark. Grounding the spark plug on cylinder and seeing a spark does not always mean the spark is adequate, as I learned the hard way. Good luck. |
RE: 18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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| Loosen the clamp holding the governor arm to the governor shaft that comes out the side of the engine. Move the carb throttle butterfly to wide open, turn the governor shaft clockwise as far as it will go, there will not be much movement in either direction, while holding these in that position, with your 3rd hand (grin) re-tighten the clamp holding the governor arm to the governor shaft. By the way, not all B&S engines set in this manor, the adjustment is called the, "static governor setting". Don't know about other engines. Walt Conner |
RE: 18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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| OK, I re adjusted the governor arm. Also have adjusted the valves per Walt's instructions(thanks again) 3 different times and am still having issues. When I throttle up, it seems like it doesnt run but a lil bit faster than idle. And as soon as I engage the blade, it acts like it wants to die or if I start to drive around the driveway at full speed. I removed the gas cap to see if that helps and no change. Any other ideas guys? Only other option is to take it to a shop to get looked at and I really don't want to drop the $$, but if I have to I have to right? |
RE: 18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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| You adjusted the , " static Governor setting". Can you take your hand and make it run faster? If so, look inside the throttle box, the box that fastens to the side of the engine where the throttle cable attaches. Inside it you will see a short spring running between the governor arm and the movable throttle lever. The movable throttle lever will have a "U" shaped tang on it with a hole in the end that the spring attaches to. IF you were able to take your hand and make the engine run faster, bend the "U" shaped tang to put more tension on the spring. Walt Conner |
RE: 18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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| Just adjusted the spring tab, and now it does throttle up alot more. Now when I try and run at full throttle, it wants to bog down/spitt and i have to throttle back. Wile its doing this, I am noticing black smoke? Sorry I am asking soo much, just cant get this figured out.. Thanks in advance. |
RE: 18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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***"I really don't want to drop the $$, but if I have to I have to right?"***
Maybe not, in your case! You seem to be making some progress, you have gone from no fuel to probably too much fuel, or at least maybe.....too little air. Can you now confirm that the choke is not on when you see the black smoke? |
RE: 18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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| Out of everything I have been through, I dont think its a fuel prob. The choke is not closed when I see the black smoke. The black smoke happenes when I put it at full throttle or when I engage the blades/ under load. This is where it wants to sputter and die. Wile I am running it, the shroud is not on, so it is getting plenty of air. |
RE: 18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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***"Wile I am running it, the shroud is not on, so it is getting plenty of air."***
I'm not sure what you mean. What SHROUD are you referring to? You might be able to use the IPL to pinpoint what that is for us.
Black smoke means either too much fuel or too little air.
Too much fuel can be caused by an improperly set float, or by a float being stuck, or by a non seating needle valve (that may be due to a few different things). |
Here is a link that might be useful: 31P777-0299-E1 IPL
RE: 18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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| When I had mentioned "shroud" I was referring to the top plastic cover that holds the air filter. The carb was one of the first thing I rebult when I started this project. As far as setting the float? When I inspected it, it was just a plastic float w/ the needle valve, it looked like there was no adjustments. It just sat in the bowl. It has a NIKKI carb on it. |
RE: 18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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| With float bowl removed and carb flipped upside down, the float should be level/parallel with the carb diaphram. This is the easiest way to set the float adjustment without a micrometer. If it needs adjustment, carefully bend the tab on the float that rests on the float needle. You may want to remove the needle jet and inspect it, and clean and blow out the needle seat. I agree with Mownie, sounds like to much fuel or too little air. When you rebuilt the carb, did you remove and clean all jets with small wire (only if necessary), carb cleaner and air hose? Sometimes they are not clean even though you think they are. Also, if you remove the float itself, shake it and make sure there is no gas inside of it. If it had a small hole in it and fills wih gas, then it may not "float" or close properly. This sounds stupid, but is your throttle cable connected/adjusted properly? Good Luck. |
RE: 18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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The whole float assembly is plastic, and did not notice any bendable tabs. One thing I did not remove was the jet. I picked up a repair manual today and was thumbing throught it this evening. I think I will remove the carb this weekend and go through it again. I will look to see if the float has any gas in it, never thought to check it..lol
What is the cause for the motor to stall/ want to stall @ full throttle when it warms up or under a load( blades engaged)?? Wile at full throttle and warm, when it acts like its going to stall, all I have to do is idle it down all the way and it will still run but only for a sec or two. This is still puzzeling. |
RE: 18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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| Insufficient fuel flow through uncleaned jets. What was it you did during the carb rebuild? just to be on the safe side? |
RE: 18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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| "The black smoke happenes when I put it at full throttle or when I engage the blades/ under load." "Insufficient fuel flow through uncleaned jets." ?? Walt Conner |
RE: 18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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When I rebuilt the carb: I replaced both throttle shaft seals and the one seal/spring assembly. The valve float needle. The gasket float bowl seal. Made sure the float bowl hinge pin was not bound up after install of new needle valve. The only thing I did not do was remove the jet. When I had the carb appart, I cleaned the carb thoroughly. then re-assembled. Also I did mention that this is a NIKKI carb.
Is there any reason why I should remove the welch plug? |
RE: 18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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jeremy says:******""The black smoke happenes when I put it at full throttle or when I engage the blades/ under load."
Mownie says: "Insufficient fuel flow through uncleaned jets."
Walt Conner says: "?? Walt Conner"*****
Mownie says: Yeah Walt, you got me on that, ............but, jeremy said:
****One thing I did not remove was the jet."****
So I guess I momentarily "forgot" the detail about black smoke. |
RE: 18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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| You're right. It is not a fuel problem. Is this an Intek? Your problem is the head gasket. Replace head gasket and you will be good to go. |
RE: 18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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| Yes it is a INTEK.... Head gasket? I usually assume if a head gasket is bad then its bad all the time. For some reason it only goes bad when its warmed up or under load. Could this still be the head gasket? If it is so, then I will replace, just don't want to do anything unecessary. |
RE: 18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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| On an air cooled engine a head gasket can take a while to totally fail. A lot depends on the design of the engine. With an Intek, first signs may be a slight loss of power and maybe a little more than usual oil consumption. Next signs with the Intek will be a random large puff of mainly black smoke and mower will start to shut down. It will run fine and once warmed up under load will blow black smoke mixed with a slight oil smell. Have you noticed any increase in oil consumption? The one lung Inteks tend to have head gasket failure, I think this is your problem. It is a very easy job. Good luck. |
RE: 18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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| It does appear to be a easy job. My only question is, will I lose all the oil if I remove the head wile its still on the mower? |
RE: 18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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*Update*
Just replaced the head gasket (was leaking) and did a complete tear down and cleaning of it. Checked and re-checked valve clearance 5 times befor installing the valve cover. Checked and adjusted clearance of coil to flywheel. And I am still having the problem of stalling when warm. I checked the spark as it was dieing and it is good. Checked the fuel silinoid on my work bench w/ a 9v batt, and also wile it was on the motor to verify it was working.
I am completely out of ideas. If anyone has any other suggestions I am all ears. Otherwise I am going to have to take it to a shop. I do want to say thanks for everyones help..! |
RE: 18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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| Well, there have been reported cases of excessive wear to the camshafts in the Briggs 31 series engines which can cause the engine to literally be starved for lack of induction volume. Measure the height of each valve spring when the rocker has the valve pushed down the max amount. You will have to turn the engine to a different position for each valve when checking, so be sure to record the measurement on paper. If you have a dial indicator you could use, that would be great. |
RE: 18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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| It's a good thing to check the lift as Mownie suggested. You haven't said if things have changed since you've started down this road. Stalls when warm- after how long? Is the black smoke still present as it stalls? Chugging or missing as it stalls or just seems starved for fuel? Honestly, I'm not nuts about that Nikki carb you have on there or the fact that it still has the solenoid on the bottom. If it comes down to it, swap a carb with another unit. These things are a dime a dozen. The Walbro carb bolts right up. |
RE: 18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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| On mine (Craftsman LT2000, 18 hp, B&S 31C707 engine) the choke was stuck closed. Raising the choke control up closes the choke, but when the lever was moved down for mowing after warm up, the choke did not open. So it died, smoked, etc. Deciding not to push it open every time, and deciding adding a string control was silly, I added a 25 cent spring from Ace Hardware; there was already a hole in the top part of the choke butterfly shaft, so I drilled a small hole in the reddish plastic housing, and ran the spring to that, works great now. I had read about others shaving down the shaft to make its diameter slightly smaller, but I like my fix better. |
RE: 18 hp B&S 31P777-0299-E1 Lots of problems
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| I have a 2004 Craftsman LT2000, it has 20 hrs. on it. It wasn't started for about 3yrs. List of things I did; Removed Carb (Nikki) and cleaned, with all new gaskets and seals. New gas, cleaned tank. New spark plug. Adjusted valves to .004 and .005. I can't move the throttle too fast or it will backfire and sputter and put out black smoke until throttled back down then its fine. Or when I go to engage the Blades. Or when I go to move forward(moving the handle forward fast). Runs great when not under a load. Model #31P777-0299-E1. Tractor model #917.275760 |
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