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Tecumseh Engine problems

windcatcher
13 years ago

Model Hs40-55568k, carb is supposed to be a 631918.

I've rebuilt the carb with new float, valve and jet, and gaskets. This is for a Troybilt Chipper/shredder Tomahawk.

Engine runs great, has plenty of power. However, it has an "atmospheric vent" I think that's what it is called. Gas pours from this vent during operation.

I'm concerned about fuel coming from this engine, especially since it is so close to the muffler. One spark, and this thing would go up in flames.

Would anyone have any ideas of what to look for? I set the float at 11/64" via a digital caliper. The carb was soaked in Berryman's carb cleaner for about 3-4 days and all holes were cleaned with small wire.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I like fire for my marsh mellows, but not singed hair. ;)

Comments (23)

  • rustyj14
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I set Tecumseh floats this way: With the carb in hand, hold it upside down, bowl off, float and needle valve in place. Look at the side of the float area. Float should be tilted slightly upwards, on the side away from the needle valve, around an eighth of an inch higher than the needle valve side. could have it a wee bit less, but it can be set with a small screw-driver, used as a pry bar.This is done in the needle valve area.
    This is looking at the outer edge of the float. Also, did you check the needle valve "seat", down in the tube where the needle valve fits into the body. If you replaced it, it must be in the hole with the indented side down at the bottom of the hole. And, did you check the float, to see if it floats? To check the float, place it in a small cup of gas, and see if it floats or sinks, preferably over night. If it sinks, it is no longer a "float" and must be replaced! HTH

  • gator_rider2
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    All tecumseh I have work on even clean just do float any place on float don't see brass clean it make lite as can.

  • baymee
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Did you replace the seat? The grooved side of the seat faces the carb body; you can't see the groove when installed.

  • windcatcher
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Baymee: I did not replace the seat - yet. It looks very good right now.

    I managed to take the carb back off last night before I lost all semblance of light.

    I then took it inside to the kitchen and tore it back apart again, looking closely at everything as it came apart.

    I stopped and got supper going then returned back to the spread out carb parts on the kitchen table.

    I not only smelled the gas, but could see the puddle where the float was! I picked the float up and shook it. Even with my poor hearing I could hear the gas sloshing around inside the float.

    Mind you, I replaced the float with a brand new one when I rebuilt this carb. Just goes to show the quality of parts isn't what it used to be.

    New float ordered and on the way. I'll do the dunk the new float test in a cup of water to see if it bubbles. No bubbles, I'll put the carb back together and see what happens after that.

    I'll post my findings after reassembling.

  • mownie
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Put the float inside a plastic baggie (if you are a bachelor, you can skip the baggie) and leave it in the freezer for at least 15 minutes prior to dunking it into a clear glass container of hot water. This will give you the maximum benefit of a greater temperature differential which in turn will produce the greatest volume of bubbles.
    It helps also if you place the container of water so it is lit from the back side (container is sitting between your eye and the light source), while you observe the float by looking through the side of the container, NOT looking straight down into the container. The bubble test is usually the "last word" on whether that noise you hear is liquid gasoline that leaked in, or if it is a stray pellet or 2 of solder from the assembly process. Use some long needle nose pliers to hold the float under water.

  • baymee
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would soak it in gasoline. Gasoline molecules will penetrate where water can't begin to go.

  • mownie
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    baymee, I think you miss the gist of the "dunk in water" test.
    The idea is not to see if the float will take on water and sink, the test is to see if air bubbles will emerge from the leaky place if the float has a leak.
    By chilling the float in the freezer, the float will "inhale" extra air through the crack or bad spot.
    Then when you submerge the cold float in a clear container of hot water..........air will jet out of the leak as the air expands inside the float.

  • ewalk
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bay , Mownies so Bright his Mother Named him Sonny he he sorry Bro ! Good point of info M !

  • baymee
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    OK, I get it. Condensing air and then expanding in hot water. Both ways work, but your way is faster.

  • windcatcher
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Still waiting on the new float to come in. Mownie, I will try your freeze & dunk test as soon as I can get the new float in.

    I don't want to install yet another defective part into this carb and have a "do over" again.

    BTW. I found this link for downloading a Tecumseh repair manual: http://www.cpdonline.com/692509.pdf

    Get it whilst it's hot. I've downloaded and saved the manual myself and have printed it in its entirety.

    Good information contained in this manual. Has about 123 pages for printing in case anyone wants to know.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Tecumseh Repair Manual

  • windcatcher
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well gents and gentesses. Leave it up to MOI to help add a turn to make things a bit more complicated.

    I finally made it home with my brandy new float, and put it on the kitchen table. I put a few things away in anticipation of tearing back into the carb again.

    I changed clothes, then headed to the table. With one real good swipe of both arms, I'd cleared up a good open space on the kitchen table to work with.

    From there I proceeded to get the carb and other repair parts in case I needed them along with a scattered repair manual.

    Now to work! Carb, manual, other parts....where's the float? Look around table for a good 15 minutes with each minute getting more and more frantic - looking for that dang float.

    Go outside to the car and look. No float there either.

    Go back in the house now getting flustered. Kept searching and almost gave up. Figured these dang bi-focals had gotten me again, and I'd wasted a perfectly good chance to get this engine back up and running.

    Came back to computer to look something else up and went back to kitchen table. Moved scattered papers for repair manual. Heard something rattle. Looked, and there was that stinking float sitting on top of the freshly printed manual in the white section of a page.

    Ok. It's going to be one of those days huh? I can deal with it. I have beer.

    But, no beer until I'm done. Deal? Yeah, right.

    Tear carb apart. Replace float that soaked up gas a little at a time. Reset float gap according to specs. Put carb back together and install on engine.

    Engine runs for a bit then gas starts pouring from throat of carb and once again from atmospheric hole in carb. Same problem as before!

    Now gritting teeth, thinking all kinds of things I shouldn't. Calm down. It is only nuts and bolts. Someone made this thing work before, right?

    Take deep breath. Shut engine down by running gas out of carb - via new gas shut-off.

    Dismantle carb and tear apart again. Notice these bifocals managed to make me put the old, slightly worn needle back in seat. (It was in the pile of parts on the table).

    Changed needle for new one. Looked at float gap, and noticed difference in float gap. Reset float gap a little on the shallow side - remember the problem of gas pouring out the atmospheric vent?

    Reinstalled carb on Tecumseh engine. Added gas to gas tank. Turned gas valve on, and watched carb. No drippy as before. Waited for at least one minute maybe more to see if any drip started. Still no drip.

    Ok. Looks good. One pull on the rope, and it fired right up!

    Let it run for quite some time. At no time did it overflow, nor even try to come out of the atmospheric vent (vent hole). No gas out of carb throat as before.

    Side of carb became dry and I let the engine run until it ran out of the gas - which was quite some time, time wise.

    What an adventure to help stop a potential fire problem just using a piece of OPE, but I think this Troybilt Chipper/Shredder will be ready for some real work soon.

    BTW, couple of things: Part number of new float is 632816. This happens to fit at least two different models of engines that I know of right now. I bet it fits others too.

    Last thing: I know this is a chipper/shredder. But, it has a Tecumseh engine driving it. This same series of engine can drive a snow blower, garden tractor, generator, etc.

    So, by helping to share this info, I hope to help someone repair a wide variety of equipment.

    Grasshopper, "How did I do Master".

    Master, "You starting to listen well".

    Cheers folks. I do appreciate the ideas with working on this stuff. I'm a rookie, but I have a steep learning curve.

    Yes, the oil does look thin right now. It'll be changed before I even try to push the limits of this fine piece of machinery. This one is a real Troybilt. It looks almost brand new because no one has been able to get it to run right since the mid 1990's.

    Now, where's my beer?

  • rustyj14
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hip, Hip, Hooray for a newbie getting his medal!
    And, there are lots of Tecumseh engines out there, doing Yoemans work, for many folks, many types of applications, and for many years!
    Welcome to the club!
    by: Rusty Jones, The mower Man.

  • ewalk
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Windcatcher: Yep Faulty Float is the norm for Atmospheric Vent leakage. Great descriptive writing on your part Dude , with very humorous anecdotes ! You may well have missed your calling Bro !

    Note: Very Happy that you enjoy your small engine troubleshooting , it will give numerous moments of reward and pleasure in retirement , take it from an Old Dude lol !

  • baymee
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I remember this past summer, having gas pour out of the vent hole on a Tecumseh carb. Thought it was the float, but no, the float was OK. Put it back together and gas came out again.

    Took it apart and checked the seat, looked good, but replaced it with a Stens seat. Put it back together and gas came out again.

    Frustrated, checked everything again, and this time I used a genuine Tecumseh needle and seat and viola, it worked.

  • windcatcher
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Baymee, thanks for the extra information. I have yet one more Troybilt chipper/shredder (Tomahawk Jr), that has almost the same identical problems. This one has a 3.5 HP Tecumseh engine whereas the first one had the 4.0 HP engine.

    Looks like parts for carb are close to identical. Kitchen table is already cleaned up and ready for carb work as soon as those parts come in.

    Ewalk, I'm glad you could see the way I was. It is so frustrating to wear these bifocals now and know the direction I want to go in, but am befuddled because I don't know which of these four images I'm supposed to pay attention to. All before any beer consumption too!

    Rusty, I kept reminding myself about your adventures. I knew someone had made this thing work properly before I worked on it, and it was just a matter of time before patience and proper parts would make it run again.

    On another note, I managed to get a Troybilt mini tiller up and running the next day too! Couldn't get it to run off anything but carb cleaner sprayed in the carb.

    Took the carb off two times before I found a little tiny speck of wet leaf covering the fuel intake hole going into the engine. Used canned air to clear that passage along with cleaning all the fuel passages and fuel lines.

    Couple of pulls later along with priming the engine, and it ran for about an hour before it ran out of gas.

    Now, I'm learning and having fun.

    Gents, I thank you for all your helpful information. There is no way I'd have tried to tackle things like this even two years ago. Now, I at least give it a try and see what I can do.

    If I have spark, I can get things to go better from there.

    Cheers and Happy Turkey day!

  • ewalk
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Windcatcher: Bi-focals..Rofmbo getting a Visual Bro . All the Best to You and Your's on Your Turkey Day South of the Border , this Beers on Me lol ...E .

    Bay: I remember your thread Bro , I know you had a time scratching your head but perseverance paid off , I took note also Dude Thanx !

  • rustyj14
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If you think Bifocal lenses are tough to get used to--wait until you need Tri-focals!! I had to get them, to work on this small carburetor stuff, and other things, too.
    An interesting thing i have found about them--when ya scroll down in Craig's List pages, the lines of print seem to go up under the line above! It happens by a certain way ya hold yer head.
    And, when i went to the tri's, i found i couldn't do any arc welding, because, by the time i got my eyes situated to see out of the helmet, they wouldn't focus on the work or i'd be looking at the ceiling!

  • baymee
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have a pair of reading glasses, a pair for carb work, and a pair for welding. They all come from the dollar store and work great. Forget about the trifocals!

  • andyma_gw
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Last spring, I stored my Ariens snow blowers. One was flooding over badly at idle. I shut the gas off and pushed it deep into the shed. A few weeks ago I pulled it out and it started easily and idled fine. Whew, just a stuck float. The shifting in and out of storage must have freed it. A screw driver handle lightly applied to the bowl will free a stuck float. I have had no luck fixing a leaky one. The durn things are made of really thin brass.

  • windcatcher
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, I was able to get the new parts for the second troybilt chipper shredder Tomahawk Jr.

    Same symptoms as above: Flooding out of carb - either with just having gas turned on and engine not running, or with engine running.

    I'd already rebuilt this carb too, with new brass float. The new floats superseded the old brass floats with plastic. Folks, it does look different, but does work once you work out the other details.

    Installed new parts, installed carb, turned gas on to watch flow out of throat of carb and onto car shed floor. I didn't even try to start the engine. I did however think ahead of time to bring the fire extinguisher out there because of the gas stove way over in the corner.

    Removed carb, dumped excess gas, took carb back into house and tore it apart on the kitchen table again. Decided to use yet another new needle, and then noticed two other things.

    New float has a factory nipple on it to prevent the float from bottoming out on the float bowl. As I started to replace the float bowl, I noticed an upward impression - nipple on the inside of the float bowl.

    It just happened because of the alignment of the float bowl that BOTH nipples were hitting each other, keeping the float at a level it wasn't supposed to be at.

    Took float bowl out to work shed, found brass drift punch, and popped it good with hammer on drift punch to make float bowl now flat.

    Reinstalled float bowl in proper alignment once again and reinstalled the carb. Turned gas on, and didn't see any further flooding. Added extra gas as tank was almost empty. Still no flooding.

    Moved chipper/shredder outside and fired engine up on second pull. Let it run for I guess 30 minutes or so until gas tank ran empty. Still no flooding, and carb became bone dry on the outside including the atmospheric vent.

    Once again, these dang bifocals prevented me from seeing the nipple on the inside of the float bowl.

    It is frustrating to do my reading ahead of time, and then have my vision mess with me like it is. Not only that, but I now have a brand new pair of glasses with a slightly different Rx to mess with my head too.

    Does it ever end? I'm sure glad I don't rely on my OPE repairs for a living. I'd have starved long ago if I did!

  • baymee
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The nipples only prevent the float from dropping too far and nothing to do with it rising and stopping the fuel flow. Sounds like a coincidence to me.

  • windcatcher
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Baymee, I hope it was a coincidence. But, it sure was strange that both nipples were in the same plane and location once I mounted the float bowl and they hit.

    No biggie now. Both chipper/shredders are doing fine these days.

    I'm now working on a Troybilt mini tiller's carb. First one I've worked on.

    I've now gone from a no gas situation and a carb rebuild to a flooding carb. I think I have something out of adjustment causing that part.

  • Warrant
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Good day,
    Got a Tecumseh Indian head engine on a homemade wood splitter.
    Missing some info, but can you tell me what I have?
    HM80 155186J S_ _ _ 288D.
    From what research I have completed, it's a Horizontal Medium Frame 8 HP 19.5ci Piston Displacement.
    Parts number 155186J. As some of the rust has taken some info, I guess two of the hashes are E and R, but guessed at the next _ and the possible 288D. Anyone want to take a shot at it finishing the info?

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