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my gut tells me that this is for human consumption cleaning... and that it could probably be addressed with a much cheaper horticultural solution ... [or i am wrong]

in other words.. they are thinking a FILTER.. wouldnt a professional add something that counteracts the problem.. rather than filtering it out????

for e.g. i seem to remember a hosta friend with an iron issue [not sure on this.. bear with me] ... and the solution was not to remove the iron.. it was to add something to change the iron into a form that was irrelevant to the garden ... he used an injection system for such ... not a filter ... and it was relatively cheap.. compared to the alternative ...

i would start by calling the appropriate county water agency .. and discussing it with them.. all wells must be tested.. and records kept ... and you might be able to get a plethora of information from them..

i would also contact some local county water softening businesses.. and see if you cant get info from them ...

i realize that you are asking a soil question .. but it bothers me that we have a one man fluoride island ... and it just doesnt seem possible that no one else in the area has these problems .... and being a client.. and presumably local to you .. that you never heard of this before ...

i am not enough of a scientist.. to google this all for you ...

and i presume you have ruled out all other possibilities regarding plant damage ....

ken

In horticulture, the damage is primarily due to the accumulation of fluoride salts in the soil caused by long-term irrigation (among other things). Fluoride ions are NOT 'volatilized' when you water your lawn. Once irrigation ceases, natural precipitation will eventually leach the salts away (takes longer drier climates).

As for water treatment, your options are limited and rather expensive, especially when your intent is to treat water for irrigation use. I would include a large cistern in your costing so you can get away with a smaller capacity residential treatment system.

I'm no expert on it, but from what I've heard (mostly from multiple dentists), the evidence STRONGLY indicates a SIGNIFICANT positive impact from the addition of fluoride to water.

From Wikipedia..."Water fluoridation prevents cavities in both children and adults, with studies estimating an 18-40% reduction in cavities when water fluoridation is used by children who already have access to toothpaste and other sources of fluoride."
and
"Drinking water is typically the largest source (of fluoride)...(and) has substantial advantages (over other sources of fluoridation), especially for subgroups at high risk."

Sorry, Harvestman, I know this isn't helping you with the tree problem...

Sorry but Wikipedia is not that reliable.

Dentists wouldn't know it if it hits their face. That's what they learn in college. Big difference.

I'm willing to bet that widespread vitamin D deficiency played a much bigger role....

To get us back on topic, do you have anything to add about what the thread is actually about????
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Harvestman, you've probably already considered this, but have you contacted the local extension office to see if they have any reports of similar problems? Sometimes their expertise can vary from office to office and from subject to subject, but it might be worth a try.

I've been concerned about this issue in a few cases before, but have never really looked into it much. Now seems like as good a time as ever to try to learn more.

John

Brandon, the only reason I was looking at volatilization as the cause was that in the Lyons, Sinclair book on pathogens it was the only source of fluoride damage to trees mentioned, and I've been unable to find mention of damage to trees derived from irrigation water. That's one reason I posted this- I assume this can't be a unique situation and was hoping someone either had read about similar circumstances or, even better, had direct experience with the issue.

As to your situation, I do not have any experience like others on here but it seems to me the logical thing would be to take soil samples nearby that are NOT irrigated from the water source and compare those results to soil that IS irrigated and see if the Fluoride concentration is significantly greater. If the native soil does have very high levels of Fluoride then one of the treatments listed above may or may not even help. I wonder if some kind of rain barrel/water collection and storage like they do on the west coast would make a difference? There are some pretty incredible things you can do with buried water drums and pumps that only use mother nature's rain for the water source. I saw this on a show on TLC a while back. Of course deep pockets helps here, but that seems to be what you are working with anyway...

Two: If Fluoride compounds exist in the ground water and in the soil the trees will have a natural tolerance to that level of Fluoride and would thrive, else everything would be died from excess Fluoride. (If in the soil they will leach into the ground water and visa versa)

Finally: In the middle of the 1900's there was much experimentation with the use of Fluoride in the water systems. Don't Google looking for the research papers on the use and benefits of Fluoridation of he water systems, go to the library and find the copies of the actual research papers. Googling will only turn up recent propaganda on the effects of Fluoridation.

Have you considered sending samples for tissue tests?

So is this a conclusion based on water sample tests? Or a diagnosis based on plant tissue tests?

There are a number of other issues that have similar symptoms (nutrient deficiency, for example). If I'm in the woods in VA and I hear hoofbeats...I have to assume that zebras aren't running wild in the Shenandoah.

There are specific target levels of fluoride in plant tissues that lead to such a diagnosis, but this is highly subject to fluctuation, not only between various species, but also between individual of a population within the same species. Sinclair and Lyons lay out the criteria quite succinctly, but there aren't clear cut lines where this rate is damaging and this rate is safe. (But you knew that if you have cited them.) Apparently, certain species are able to accumulate fluoride in the plant from the soil (camellia), but you are correct in your surmise: volitization is a much more likely culprit.

Is your client using this well for potable water?

Also, do you know what the actual amount of Fl is in parts per million(PPM)?

The maximum level for Fl in potable water is 4.0ppm; parts per million (ppm) and milligrams per Liter (mg/L) is the same thing. It's just barely over the limit for human consumption so I'm not sure if it would be harmful to plants.

If he is getting his potable water from a water works he may be able to get an irrigation meter.