Ken I never even started after watching what you describe in so many friends' gardens (more the pruning and the ungainly trees - nobody here does much spraying). I don't miss the fruit as they all have more than they can consume so I benefit from their largesse. I have only two - an espaliered Meyer lemon and a fuyu persimmon.

So no, you are not alone!

Sara

My very first tree was a beech transplanted here from the woods, and after that I bought a manchurian walnut. The only fruit tree I have ever planted was a cherry wich I have never tasted the fruit from, the birds beat me at it every year.

Everybody around here grows apple trees in their back yards, but few know how to treat them right. So there are ugly, suffering apple trees everywhere. Even I have got one, planted many years ago by some former owner of this property. The apples from that tree does not get much larger than an inch wide, and is eaten by dears in winter. There are some pretty fruit trees too though, like mulberry, pear and many from the prunus family.

if it werent for my mother and father, I would have none. They think the trees prune and spray themselves and its my carelessness when the trees dont produce enough, critters get them, or they dont produce at all.

I never understood fruit trees for landscape use. I never thought twice about getting one. I think back to the diseased apple tree in my backyard growing up that would get infested with so many insects that the fruit was rarely viable. Plus my neighbor had a pear tree in which they let the fruit drop and there where swarms and swarms of yellow jackets and hornets would gather kitty corner from our side entrance to our house...aggressive little buggers when fruit is present.

hey whaas ...

yellow jackets and wasps.. basically mind their own business ...

the only fruit issue is their eating FERMENTED rotting fruit ...

so its more of a belligerent drunk issue.. rather than otherwise aggressive ... lol... sorta bikers with wings and an attitude ... lol..

and of course that other problem mentioned.. if you do succeed.. exactly what is your plan for 50 bushels of apples that come ripe one single weekend .. lol ... fear your success.. lol ... that is when neighbors start locking the doors.. and not answering when you ring the bell .. lol .... right up there with zucchini and tomato season ...

ever notice how the first tomato is sublime.. the first dozen are wonderful ... then how you start throwing some away.. because of some very slight blemish.. lol ...

i once read a readers digest joke.. that in hoity toity Newport ... the only time peeps lock their rolls/benz/etc ... is zucchini season.. else you come out of the shop and your back seat will be gratuitously filled with zucchini.. lol ..

this is starting to sound like a Seinfeld monolog.. lol.. time to go ... whats that all about ...

ken

It's unfortunate that so many people are turned off to fruit growing because they tried growing apples, which are, in many parts of the country, just about the most difficult fruit to grow. As others have noted, they are plagued by numerous pests and diseases. Peaches and other stonefruit are also quite problematic, being troubled by worms in the fruit, borers in the trunk, and diseases of the foliage. Of course, this is just about all the bog box stores sell, apples and peaches.

There are a few fruits that are quite easy to grow. Pawpaws and native persimmons among them. Delicious fruit that are not available in the stores. Asian persimmons are also easy, and there are many varieties hardy to zone 6. Pristine fruit without a single spray of anything. Asian pears, and some European pears are mostly trouble free as well.

Alex

True dat, alex.
I started out gangbusters with apples, but fortunately also planted a number of pears, and along the way got into persimmons and nut trees, with a short dalliance into pawpaws(yeah, I know folks are extolling their virtues, but I can eat one, and that's enough to last me for the next 2 or 3 years).
Most of the apples and stonefruits have been abandoned or died out and have been replaced with a pear or persimmon, and I spend much more time propagating and cultivating the pecans/hickories/walnuts/oaks than anything else in my collection. I do still have a number of edible crabs and good early-season apples that will ripen decent fruits with no spray and little other care, but the big European hornets pretty well eat all late-season apples, and many of the late pears long before they're ripe.

Started out fooling around with low-tannin oak (white oak group) selections early in my woody-plant phase, but have recently begun branching out into the red/black group - not for edible acorns, but for a bit more fall color.
Do have a few other 'ornamental' woodies, such as redbuds, dogwoods, buckeyes/horsechestnuts, deciduous magnolias, but oaks and edibles still predominate in the yard proper - but with close to 200 acres of farmland & forest, I have plenty of space to play around with the nut trees.

Well, I kinda started with a fruit tree. A Serviceberry (Amelanchier x grandiflora) was among the first trees I planted and I still enjoy it.

tj

I didn't start with fruit trees, but incorporated them as I expanded. I still have 2 apples and a peach, all about 20 years old. The peach should have been cut years ago, but it makes enough fruit for me to graze on them for a couple of weeks in July. The apples are old varieties, one is a York Imperial that makes apples that are good and impossible to find anymore. No spray, and most of the apples have scab, but it gives me good grazing in the fall. I am lucky enough to have a good friend who has a commercial orchard, otherwise I'd go broke if I had to pay for all the fruit I eat.

Would I plant another pomme fruit? No. Neither would I plant stone fruits again (peaches, plums, cherries, etc.).
BTW, Asian pears don't last long around here without spraying, one season of fireblight can make your Asian pear dreams shatter, and fireblight is real common about every other year.

Like other posters, I have a bunch of other fruit. Amelanchier (locally called Juneberries), Pawpaw, American Persimmon, hardy Kiwi, grapes and different nuts. Even planted a Raisin Tree (Hovenia dulcis) and a Mespilus germanicus, Medlar.

Some people waste their patch on Conifers, can you believe this! From growing up in the taiga, I am saddened to see the ends to which these misguided people go to procure small, slow growing plants that will never flower, never fruit, only make seed for Red Squirrels and other rodents.

I think most of the problems I see with home-grown fruit trees arise because people go into it absolutely blind. They see some big, pot-bound, mislabeled, half-sick fruit tree at the big box store and just can't resist. Many probably don't even realize they are buying a grafted tree and very few check into things like which rootstock would be best for their application. Spraying and pruning aren't covered on the label, so must not be necessary! And, since they are often labeled as "disease resistant", surely that's been taken care of.

I havnt seen this problem up here, because almost no one grows fruit. I see the trees being sold, but I almost never see them planted in peoples yards.

My first fruit tree was a "honeygold" apple. The next year, I purchased a Toka plum, 2 Evans cherries, Serviceberry "smokey", John pear and seedlings of macintosh apple, and a bosc pear.

The honeygold was bread in Minnesota, pretty much the exact same climate as me, while the Evans, serviceberry, and John pear were bread in saskatchewan, much colder than I am here. The Toka was bred in N dakota, which again, is similar climate in ways to me, but colder.

IF anything the problem lies with the sellars more than buyers. Its just good customer service to make sure the people get good plants, and the right ones so they dont come back. Unfortunately, most stores care about selling stock, rather than proper selling.

I started with houseplants, then ended up annexing my parents yard (dont have one to myself yet). It started as a small perennial garden, but as I researched gardening techniques, I ended up coming across permaculture courses and books, which made me rethink how I do things.

Basically, I dont want to do more work then I have to, and to accomplish that, I needed to research what I want, and figure out what I CAN grow witha minimal amount of care. The real problem is, there arent a lot of people who really go for fruit, so its hard to find info about what diseases ar prevalent here, what plants work etc. Mostly I see seedling prune plums, and crab�macintosh apple.

Exactly my case.

Act one- A shovel and a dream
I just bought my first house with a big empty yard, and was thrilled at the prospects of finally graduating from my nomadic herd of windowsill pots to an actual piece of earth. While roaming the garden center of my local big box, I was struck with a vision of my own peach orchard. I quickly left with 4 scrappy looking peach trees, 8 bags of compost, and a shiny new shovel. While driving up to my house, I decided that my barren putting green of a front yard would be the perfect full sun location for the new peach mini-orchard. After about two days worth of debating on the most aesthetically pleasing way to make use of my new fruit trees, I marched out front and paced out the spacing on a stately new avenue of peaches parallel to the street. What could possibly be more functional than fruit trees as landscaping? Flowers in the spring followed by delicious fruit, all while adding curb appeal to my vanilla brick ranch. I grabbed my brand new shovel and broke ground on my virgin front lawn, well sort of. ..To my surprise the shovel penetrated about 6 inches of soil, before coming to a dead stop at a concrete like layer of clay. I reassessed my tool selection for the job and after a second trip to the trusty big box, returned with a serious pickaxe. The directions on the pots suggested I dig holes 2 times as wide as the root balls. Naturally one should assume digging them four times as wide and twice as deep, would virtually ensure a successful transplant. After a couple hours of sweating and cursing, I had chipped out four giant pits in the rock hard clay that was my drought stricken front yard. Determined to have the finest peach trees in the state of NC, I decided that the mounds of clay I had just removed from the ground must be completely incompatible with supporting plant life. Not even if I mixed in all 8 bags of compost would it be suitable material to backfill onto the roots of my prized peach trees. Yet another trip to the old big box store was in my immediate future, and this time I returned with enough bags of premium "garden soil" to plant all of the trees without having to reuse any of that useless clay I had just chiseled from the earth. Trees now in the ground, it was time to water and dote on them like frail children until they finally went dormant for the winter.
Act two- Root rot, gummosis, and cankers, oh my.
(to be continued? It is a really really slow day in the office)

Oh my.............I plant fruit trees and have always had fruit trees and still planting fruit trees. I am in the same camp with Brandon. You don't go into it blind. You make good selections and you expect a modicum of care to go into the production of the fruit. I have just installed eight more peach trees over the last two years. None of my peach trees have ever been sprayed, and I can easily get a bushel off one tree. If I buy 3/4 bushels of peaches, it would set me back $75 a basket. I consider that a gigantic return on investment. I also grow apples, cherries, quince, and persimmon, black walnut, three varieties of grape, currents, strawberries, blackberries, red and black raspberries and blue berries. I DO NOT use sprays. Well, I take that back. Once in thirty five years I had to treat my grape vines with hort oil for grape flea beatles. Yes, I prune. No I don't buy dwarfs. Yes, I can fruits for home use. Yes, I occasionally lose one and plant two in its place. If someone struggles so much with fruit trees, something is wrong in the equation. All food production takes some work, and there is always a learning curve, but my fruits bring me lots of pleasure, as well as lots of produce.

I have reduced my number of fruit tree in part because of the squirrels they attract. However some of them I merely replaced with healthier cultivars. I'm actually pretty happy with my 7 apple trees. The fig does well as do my plums and pluots. The apricot is chlorotic so I'd probably skip that if I had it to do again, but who knew in advance? And otherwise it is healthy so I'll leave it in place. I inherited citrus and a wonderfully delicious mulberry tree. The pomegranates I planted will probably begin bearing this year. I'm looking forward to that. I'll probably replace my persimmon. I moved it a couple of times and eventually it just gave up and stopped growing. Can't say I much blame it! My grapes are wonderful and I love them.

All in all, I reduced my original overly-extravagant plans, but am keeping favorite fruit. Also I have moved on to planting ornamental trees and native shrubs in the unfenced area out in deer country, that is, my back yard hillside.

Rosefolly

I bought a 5-in-1 grafted pear tree, and 3 of the grafts are Bradford pears!

Still, one of the grafts produces large & sweet pears -- Bartletts I think.

Gee, I must just be lucky. I have a Stella sweet cherry that gives me about a 100 lb crop every other year-unless we get a frost at the wrong time. I have never sprayed this tree, and never seen a worm either. There are always plenty of people to help me pick, my grandsons make wine out of a lot of them. We used to cover the tree when it was younger, now we share with the birds.My neighbors have 2 apricot trees so we share. My daughter has an apple and a nectarine. The main thing here is keeping them watered. I would hate to do without the fruit trees around here.

Fruit trees are great with caveats as you mention! I plant them at the edge of my lawn, and yes they get bugs, diseases, rodent and deer chewed, etc. But I try to keep it in perspective. I mostly don't spray, and pick what is fairly bug free only. Peaches i keep trying and hoping, but in zone 4, i usually lose the trees after a couple of years. But I occasionally get fruit, and the trees are free since they all come out of my compost.
I DID give up on plums though - they aren't yummy enough to warrant any actual work.
I have better luck with ground/bush fruit (strawberry/raspberry/blueberry/juneberry)

I have planted a peach, plum, apple, and fig in my yard. I never get any fruit from any of them, except a couple of years from the apple. The birds, squirrels and possums get them before they get ripe. I've given up on them.

However, they do leave citrus alone! I have 2 grapefruit, 2 kumquats, 1 lemon, 1 ujukitsu (cross between grapefruit & orange), and am planting 2 clementines this week, and will be getting a cara cara orange eventually, then the grower releases them to the nursery. And a friend is going to give me cuttings from a lime tree that has survived several hard freezes - impossible to find if you get the varieties available at the nurseries.

When I was growing up, it was believed that citrus wouldn't grow in our area, but I had a neighbor who had a small lime tree. Now, they know better, and citrus are major best sellers this time of year, and the Master Gardener fruit tree sales are total sell-outs, no matter how many they have. They're even available at the big box stores these days.

i think.. and its my post.. lol .. the the root of the post .. was to perhaps.. to burst the bubble of newbies with dreams of getting a viable crop .. simply by planting fruit ...

yes.. you get lucky ... but not very often ...

yes ... sometimes its bulletproof.. most often a PIA ...

they are fun for the adventure.. IF.. you clearly understand ... the effort in time and work.. should you wish to succeed ...

ken

You can say the same thing about almost any type of planting. I think roses are a PIA, myself but I don't try to discourage or bias anyone who is thinking of growing them. Most newbies are pretty naive and yeah, you really hope they don't get so burnt with expectations of reward without proper preparation and have it sour them so they don't want to garden anymore. I have even had this discussion with gardeners who shoud know better about things like groundcovers. The seem to think you can just dig a little hole and plop in a start and magically all weeds will be choked out. They look totally shocked when I start the drill about tilling and bed prep, hand weeding and watering until establishment. They ignore me, buy a flat and then *itch about it next year when they come to buy something else. They look at my beds, oozing flowers and flowing over the stones and think I saved the best for myself and sold them crap. LOL. My typical poinsettia customer (I was a wholesaler) would specify they wanted their delivery in mid-November. It should not have to be watered whilst on display but they expected the flowers to be fresh for Christmas and since their customers wanted to take their flowers home with them after the epifany preferably look nice until then. Oh, and by the way yes they put them in front of the heater vents and by the doors so folks could appreciate them as they entered the building. That's when I'd tell them to head to a box store and buy the plastic jobs. It's the same with fruit trees. Some folks seem to not mind the work involved, somehow get lucky most years with pests ( a lot of that is scouting for potential problems and nipping it in the bud) and get a decent yield for their efforts. Some don't. You just don't know until you jump in and try. The pic is the yield off ONE tree. It was grown from a pit and has never been pruned or sprayed and is now at least twenty years old. So, adventures into fruit growing aren't always exercises in frustration. I now have twelve peach trees .........lost two through the years. One from gummosis and one from a windstorm when it was laden with fruit.

Get outa here - I started with fruit and I certainly hope to end with it. With no spraying whatsoever, I have plums, cherries, damsons, gages, apples (including a number of cordons and espaliers - I love the pruning and shaping), nectarines. quince, medlars and even a couple of tricky citrus. Then there are nuts - hazels, almonds, walnuts....the list goes on. I cannot imagine not having productive fruit and nuts. Same with berries - all more lovely, with blossom in Spring and crops in Autumn. I actually feel a bit ripped off if ornamental trees do not produce a crop of berries at the very least (sorbus, crateagus, amelanchiers). Of course, I have finally got a bit more space besides allotments and can grow native trees, but I would never be without fruit. The only problematic ones are pears (midge) so I reluctantly do not bother.

When we moved to our current place, there were two cherry trees. Too tall, birds got them, so I cut them down. There was also an apple tree--likely a Granny Smith. Squirrels get nearly every one, so I will likely take it down one of these years.

Now, I did plant an Asian persimmon. I do have to net the tree -- but these can be kept smaller with pruning. I get some wonderful fruit from it. No spraying or anything is needed - just some supplemental watering in hot summers. So I'm happy with this fruit tree. Not all fruit trees are bad.

I started out here with fruit trees. Two cherries and a mulberry. The mulberry is thriving, the bing cherry is doing well, and whatever the other cherry is, its holding it's own. Considering how difficult its supposed to be to grow cherries here at all, I'd say they've been quite the success.

Moved on up to Pawpaws last year, and have a couple of American Chestnuts that will be going out in the woods this year.

The real trick is picking fruit trees that are native to your area or that are native to one that is very similar. If you live in main and try to grow an orange tree, you're not going to end up very happy.

The cherry trees aren't native to around here, but all the other food trees I have planted are. Most of them were wiped out by blight or over-forestation, or any number of other man-made disasters. Kind of like to think I'm helping do my part to restore the woods out here to their original grandeur one tree at a time.

One day I would like to have my own little orchard. I want to try some permaculture and agroforestry methods. Basically take an old pasture and plant some disease resistant apples, pears, persimmon, peaches, plums, and etc. Then put in some goats and sheep to take care of the grass/weeds and rotten fruit. In the process they would leave fertilizer in the form of dung. I would also put in some guinea fowl and chickens to take care of the insects. I have read that this process works in other forums. Basically no mowing is required around the trees and no rotten fruit to pick up. Plus the guinea fowl and chickens eat any insects so no need for insecticide.

Sorry, this was a double don't know whats up with my computer..ignore

This post was edited by greenthumbzdude on Wed, Feb 6, 13 at 20:58

Sorry, this was a double don't know whats up with my computer..ignore

This post was edited by greenthumbzdude on Wed, Feb 6, 13 at 20:56

You would still need to be very picky about what types of fruit trees you got. Simple insect removal and fertilization is not enough when you're looking at trees that were never meant to be in the environment you put them in. Do your homework first, ask at your local nurseries, send a letter to your local college, that sort of thing to find out what grows best where you are.

Otherwise you might be cursing those goats and sheep when you're slipping in piles of dung trying to spray all the trees in fungicides and the like to keep them alive.

I have 30+ dairy goats, and have had sheep--you don't have to worry about slipping in the dung as they make small, dry "berries" that are fairly well spread out (they poop as they walk). But the goats will strip the bark off all your fruit trees in a heartbeat. So either fence each individual tree using very sturdy posts or just get sheep which aren't as bad.

'zactly what I was thinking, gene.
If gtdude puts goats in his orchard, the first thing they'll do is eat every leaf or small branch as high as they can reach, then begin stripping bark...

Horses as well. I told my ex to NOT fence them into the new corral. Huge, beautiful seckle pears. They had them girdled in a heartbeat. Put in three more peach trees last week and have a dozen left, if nobody around here wants them, they're going in too. Blueberries are blooming now, as are the quince trees. Found a surprise peach tree on a hillside I'd never noticed before. I used to throw my peach pits there when I was canning. Noticed it this spring in bloom and guess I had just never walked back towards the woods to inspect it, and thought it was a redbud or wild crabapple. Hah. Looks plenty big enough to bear this year and I'll be eyeballing it to harvest unless the deer have at it first.

Ugh. Don't even get me started on the hayburners.
I've known for years that they'd walk through knee-deep lush grass and clover to bite the top out of a vigorous oak seedling.
They're dedicated to reducing any landscape they're confined within - or gain access to - to the treeless Siberian steppes from which they originated.
Have to work constantly to keep fences in place surrounding the few sizeable pecans in the pastures where my wife keeps hers - and there's one huge old white oak in one pasture - probably 3 ft dbh that they've killed, by stripping the bark off, all the way around, as high as they can reach. Just makes me sick.
She runs temporary fence around the front & back yard to graze them - and I have to come along behind her an move it back away from the trees. She wants 'em to have the benefit of all the grass she can get 'em to, but I want my trees out of reach of ol' Bucky the Beaverhorse.