Haven't seen one here, don't know if I am still on the list. Size of the catalog may be a reaction to the same persisting downturn in sales of woody ornamentals that is being seen elsewhere. I would look at the discussion in the front to see if they say anything about what is going on with them and their print catalogs - which cost a small fortune to produce. Maybe it is just a shifting to the web site as being the main source of their offerings.

Actually, it does say right inside the front cover, "visit www.forestfarm.om for our full inventory".

As far as the downturn in woody ornamental sales, it bothers me because I fear a future where even with mail-order, we only have Bradford pears, October Glory red maples, and in the south, crape myrtles.

Worth noting though, that Rarefind and Camellia Forest's catalogs are as ambitious as ever. Particularly CF...I can remember when their catalog had no color plates and only a 2 color offset printed cover. Now it's all glossy with scads of color pictures. Ideally they would develop a more scientific approach to it, it's hard to judge the colors because they seem to be taken in varying light. The example of the Phillips & Rix books is the one to follow.

I would recommend hurrying up and ordering anything you have your heart set on at Forestfarm. They aren't exactly spring chickens. And we know Greer is closing this year because the land development has been in the papers.

I don't think you have anything to worry about. Express your feelings with your wallet, bring some beautiful plants into your yard that give you joy and inspire your neighbors.

Ours used to be the one odd ball property in the neighborhood but after ten years, not so much. Others have been bit by the bug and have added some delightful and interesting trees, shrubs, and perennials.

Yeah, I just got mine today, also. I need to stop spending so much money anyway, I guess.

"I would recommend hurrying up and ordering anything you have your heart set on at Forestfarm. They aren't exactly spring chickens."

"Peg and Ray...
Peg and Ray have retired, and are no longer involved in the day-to-day operations and decisions of Forestfarm. After 40 years, it's time to turn over Forestfarm to the capable hands of the Forestfarm at Pacifica staff. We have enjoyed growing quality plants for you all, but now it's someone else's turn. Best wishes, Peg & Ray"

I wouldn't mind them doing away with paper catalog anyways, was too big, no pics, descriptions of plants from other sources, so not point to keep it, best to look online anyways.

Yeah the last time I spoke to Ray on the phone - only last summer or spring IIRC - he implied that handover was coming soon.
However, as I've mentioned in my comments about the Sequoia sempervirens at the Barnes Arboretum - non-profits have a way of ultimately not following their founder's wishes. There may not be other parties willing to put the blood, sweat and tears into keeping Forestfarm what it is, that were put into making it what it is. So don't think you'll always be able to have access to their palette of plants. At least this is happening in a orderly way, unlike the death of Rarefind founder Hank Shannen, which caused the nursery to list periliously close to closure. Things are looking good there now there, their new owner seems to be taking a genuine interest in the place and in preserving its legacy. And running Forestfarm as a non-profit is a better idea than selling it to another owner/operator - since it seems most nurseries end up being non-profits anyhow. :-(

"I wouldn't mind them doing away with paper catalog anyways, was too big, no pics, descriptions of plants from other sources, so not point to keep it, best to look online anyways"

They seem to be improving the website, which is a step in the right direction. You can finally do a search rather than look up everything taxonomically. However I never understood why they didn't offer at least a pdf of current inventory. That way you can quickly scan to see if anything jumps out as a likely purchase. I agree generally, that paper catalogs don't have much of a future at least for people my age. Nor do paper books, really. Just the other day I look at the big DK Trees and Shrubs book I have and thought, "I'd much rather have a 200 megabyte pdf of that book".

I can't help commenting on the irony involved in advocating for digital only catalogs/books and the struggles of the horticulture industry. The collapse of the housing market was certainly a major factor effecting nurseries. So was the takeover of some nurseries by bigger companies with no real interest in plants. What happened to Heronswood is a prime example of the latter. There is, however, another important factor. Presently, we are just not seeing interest in horticulture among a younger generation. Nursery owners and devoted gardeners are aging and not being replaced. One important reason for this, imho, is that generations raised to see leisure activity as something that has to involve a screen and an internet connection are very unlikely to take up gardening or any other activity which involves interaction with the actual world rather than a virtual one.

I blame the internet (which found me forest farm and all these cultivars in the 1st place) on the demise of the paper catalog. Off my cell I can browse their catalog and order on any bathroom trip.

As long as the nursery has a plan of action.

Far as the downturn I blame the economy. It seems to have recovered a bit in the furniture industry but the 2005 ere refinancing boom of created imaginary wealth was just a weird bubble of people, bankers and home sellers and refinancers making money thanks to lower interest rates and short sighted lending and borrowing practices.

Now the stock market (big multi national business) has recovered and the middle (aka mass buying) class in America is stable if not recovered.

The on going (and maybe for the best) Marshall Plan like rebuilding of the world against socialism or radical Islam is leveling out the world's wealth and hopefully moderating our enemies and potential enemies. However this fights against our buying power as Hyuandi's (and other goods) we must buy are produced in countries with increasingly competive wages + shipping leaving us less money to spend on specialty trees.

tornado3800: pretty hard to see much "leveling out of the world's wealth" when entirely credible sources predict that more than half of the world's total wealth will be in the hands of the top 1% by 2016.

ikz5ia, I've had the same experiences as well. Add topping trees to the list. If I get two orders in a row with issues, then I'm done. Only Girards and Forestfarm have meet that fate.

rhizo_1, I like your comment as its very true. After I landscaped my last three homes, multiple homes on the block would then landscape their homes after being there for many years. One garden at a time, thats all it takes.

I feel like I've already beat this horse to death, but anyhow...

Mainegrower I'm not so sure it isn't just a coincidence...but isn't that always the cliched question about ironies? Whether youth are accustomed to it or not, for a taxonomic reference volume, digital *really is* better than paper. I think one could even get Edward Tufte to agree to that, assuming it had really good UI design. Sometimes the new-fangled really is an improvement over tried and true. You could say it doesn't work w/o electricity, but neither does an LED light to read your paper book.

However, you are right on the money about the lack of appeal of horticulture. "Generation i" seems to have been trained by their i-whatevers to have incredibly short attention spans. At least with anything involving the real world. Even in so-called adults, the mentality created by the oxymoronically named "Reality TV" and the echo chambers of the internet don't help either, but I'm going to stop at this point rather than even risk the thread starting to get political again as it almost did a couple posts above.

If you want to see what people are interested in within the sphere of gardening (and home ownership) just look at what appears on the MOST RECENT POSTS feature on this web site - or what forums the site offers in hit content when you search for it using an engine. (Hint: three of them are about edible plants and two others are not about gardening).

Last time I looked I think Sunset Publishing was still listing alstroemerias, Abelia x grandiflora, tomato plants and bean plants as the most asked about kinds.

At least there is one kind of shrub in that list, albeit a not very dignified and long-lasting one. Presumably all of the new, colorful yet frequently unstable variegated cultivars of it that growers are able to pump out comparatively quickly (compared to conifers and rhododendrons etc.) are what is driving this.

This post was edited by bboy on Thu, Jan 22, 15 at 18:10

Girard's and Fairweather Gardens have apparently ceased operations. Not exactly a surprise in either case, but the list of once good nurseries no longer in operation continues to grow. There are a number of others - Monrovia, for example - which continue to operate, but are under bankruptcy supervision.

"tornado3800: pretty hard to see much "leveling out of the world's wealth" when entirely credible sources predict that more than half of the world's total wealth will be in the hands of the top 1% by 2016."

I more meant betwen countries. The buying power of the average Japanese, Chinese, Indian, German and American are more even now than in 1950.

Despite that I agree true wealth is isolated to the 1 percenters and there are only soo many plants Jerry Jones is going to order.

>The buying power of the average Japanese, Chinese, Indian, German and American are more even now than in 1950That's because the average Asian used to have next to nothing and the lot of most western citizens has fallen markedly in recent years - although I am not sure it is as bad in Germany etc. as it is here.

Just now when I Binged GardenWeb no plant forums at all came up in the links offered by the site within the body of the search hit.

The main thing that is causing contraction and killing off of nurseries is lack of sales. The small amount of land being left around buildings on new construction sites will have a lot to do with this. Otherwise, many commercial and residential properties in my area are being maintained by mow, blow and go operators that top and shear, never fertilize or do anything else that assists plant health and beauty - except maybe operating and maintaining irrigation systems. Replacement of failed trees or shrubs in such settings often does not occur, once the initial installation phase has passed.

This means that in numerous cases there is money to be put into outdoor spaces but no interest in gardening them, in the usual sense. Awhile back a majority of residential properties in Seattle were rentals, likely there has been no change in this - if anything probably more people there are renting due to an inability to buy a house. Here and there you see a hobby garden or an apparently professionally designed one, otherwise very little true gardening is going on from one place to the next - brown lawns are the typical state during summers here. For years I have wondered where all the plants sold by local garden centers were going, the general landscape apparently having a boundless ability to swallow them up, without a trace.

"Girard's and Fairweather Gardens have apparently ceased operations."

While the bad news is being passed around: I recently noticed that Porterhowse Nursery, specializing in conifers for those who hadn't heard of them, has closed as well.