I saw your post this morning and agree with some of what they said. It looks as if the leaves are mulberry or maybe basswood and the bark is from a shagbark hickory. I think you accidentally have your trees mixed up since they are dormant and don't have leaves which is very easy to do even for many of us that enjoy paying attention to such things! You may have to wait until they leaf out again this spring to know for certain.

Your description really does make sense, too. Mulberry are fairly common in the understory and are somewhat shaped like dogwoods in their sapling stage while in the understory.

This post was edited by j0nd03 on Tue, Jan 14, 14 at 16:55

I would usually agree about mixing up but I walk by these trees everytime I go there.They are like friends.I see them regularly but like I say I will stay at it until I (we) figure it out.I dont know all the Hickories or Oaks by heart yet but these are different and when you see them you know they are different.More pictures and research needed.

its an old birch, leaves a match and check out the link for the bark

Here is a link that might be useful: bark

Bark is definitely not Tilia americana but the leaves look like Tilia americana.

You might compare your pics with these from Va Tech.
Red Mulberry or Morus rubra sometimes has unlobed leaves. Old trees can have flaking bark. Male trees produce no fruit.

Here is a link that might be useful: VA Tech Factsheet

Sam I saw that link and that was one that lead me to think this is a Mulberry....but what kinda mulberry is not clear.
When this thing starts leaving,fruiting and flowering I think we are gonna see what kinda tree this is exactly....I hope...lol
Thanks again to all for helping with this.

Agree w/whaas, that doesn't seem to be Tilia americana -- bark is wrong. I'm a bit stumped....

You better remember to post an update for us when it happens, wgreenlee1!! I know I'm not the only one curious about this identity. Sure would appreciate it =)

I know its killing me also.
I am gonna take some twigs with buds to Conservation dept or extension office and have them help but you know how asking the government for anything goes.
Will keep at it....

I posted on your Plant ID forum thread; here is my reply.

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/namegal/msg0121502231960.html?15

That's probably Red Mulberry (Morus rubra) given the very limited information provided.

wgreenlee1 could assist by saying WHERE these plants are growing. From your post here on Trees, I'm going to surmise Missouri - where Red Mulberry would be perfectly at home.

I am pretty sure that there are no Tilia sp. with this kind of bark characteristics. It doesn't fit any of the birches either. Not even close on poplar or cottonwood (Populus sp.). Since these plants have been observed by you over a long period of time, I'm certain you would have observed Tilia flowers in passing. You should have seen Mulberry flowers, too - whether male or female. This tree is plenty old to have flowered.

Those leaves look large enough, within the range of morphology, and appear coarse enough (along with the written description) to fit right in with Red Mulberry. Lobed leaves are just one expression of Mulberry species leaves, but not the only expression.

Your location is significant in answering your question, and additional images of the dormant features like buds, stems, and - be still my heart - the WHOLE tree, make a huge difference in offering lucid opinions to the identity of this tree.

Here's an old Red Mulberry trunk for comparison.

Here's a 200+ year old Tilia americana.

Basswood develop a ridged and furrowed bark character, NOT a exfoliating or flaking character.

I will go out on a limb here and say if this does turn out to be a red mulberry AND the bark is exceptionally pronounced as it appears to be, it should be cultivated. It should prove much easier to grow than shag bark hickory for that particular bark effect. If it turns out to be a male, it would be perfect!

South Eastern St.Clair County Missouri