trees take care of themselves .... EVERYTHING you can dream up is contrary to nature .... EXCEPT .... removal ...

hire a certified arborist.. and get an opinion as to the health of this tree .. especially since it is so close to the house ...

my personal nightmare .. oft repeated here.. is that a large tree.. planted WAY TO CLOSE TO THE HOUSE ... will fall and kill me in my sleep ... and a rotting tree .. too close to the house.. is NOT reassuring ...

if that is a zip code next to your name.. it means nothing to me.. if you are in a storm or severe weather area .. think long and hard about removal ... oak makes great firewood ....

good luck

ken

PS: why have you had your head in the hole.. smellin' the stink???? ... lol

ken....95062= Santa Cruz

no CA experience here.. at least its not in hurricane land ... but my midwest experience says if its near a trailer park.. look out.. the funnel clouds will come ... but i dont recall any CA tornado stories either ...

you still need a certified experts opinion ...

ken

I think what I am going to do is build a very lightweight "roof" or maybe even an umbrella to go over the hole to prevent water from entering in the first place.

Yes, if that tree ever fell it would rip up our deck. But thankfully it does lean away from us. I love that tree and so does all the birds and squirrels.

Squirrels in an oak tree, in the middle of your patio?

Does that mean the tall tree is very close to your house? If so, does that mean you often hear the patter of their little feet running across your roof? Or are squirrels chewing vulnerable parts of the siding or roofing materials in an attemp to make just large enough entry access for getting into your attic and nesting in or with the insulation?

cats are idiots... lol ...

ken

My goal was NOT to fill the cavity in an otherwise healthy tree. I wanted to stop water from collecting and allow the tree to heal itself by eventually covering the actual hole. My hole was in an old oak. It was at the base of the tree and almost perfectly round (roughly 18" in diameter) the cavity inside this tree was large. Filling it with cement (not recommended these days for a varity of reasons) would have required yard or more of cement. I didn't want to do that. I just wanted to cover the hole, and as I said allow the tree to grow over it in time.

I used window screen, some small copper nails, foam expanding insulation (get it from any hardware store), some old fashion tree tar (garden center). I wanted to allow for expansion and contraction, and I didn't want to drive a lot of nails. First I used enough screen material to create a a little droop inside the hole. I used copper tack nails to hold the screen over the opening. Perhaps heavy wood staples would have worked as well the key for me was to minimize any additional damage to the healthy parts of the tree. I then sprayed in the expanding insulation (toxic stuff, but didn't hurt the tree)allowed it to dry and shaved it down with a knife to below surrounding scar tissue. I covered that with tree tar just for looks, really. (it is bright yellow) The finished product won't stand up to pressure, I could push through it with very little effort. But it has kept water from collecting in the whole, and animals out. It also has allowed the tree to start healing over the hole. 3 years on it is still in place, and the tree has started to grow over it (currently only 16"). Given enough time and annual "checkups" (and spot fills) the hole should be completely covered in the years to come. (fingers crossed)

Might not work for all holes or conditions but worth knowing. The stuff expands and contracts with the tree, and is somewhat flexible with the wind and weather. Maybe this will help someone.

I beleive 'do no harm' would be a better credo.

Anyway, reading most arborist agree, that removing the water and scraping away the rotted wood, then swabbing with an anti-bacterial (root hormone to promote new growth) or lime sulfur is the best method. Then it's suggested to use foam sealant, and paint over surface of hole.

MY QUESTION (didn't think you were leaving without one did you?) is WHICH FOAM Sealant? is Evercoats Polyurethane Isocynate gonna poison the tree if used? is there a safe foam? Is the foam gonna promote growth while keeping the animals/ants/corrosion at bay?

BTW, I know lots of arborists. I'm one myself! But I know none that recommend expanding foam for any aspect of tree care.

+oM

When I read GoldenSage's post, my jaw dropped. I don't know what arborists wrote what she's been reading, but I sure wouldn't want one of them to touch one of my trees! I guess you can always find someone that will recommend most anything, but even just a little checking should have debunked what GoldenSage read.

Simutaneously, if it's foamed up, no water would sit in it. Suppose whoever puts the product out there that would promote new growth inside will have the first on the market, good if it also repelled ants/termites/etc.

Not sure what your last post is all about? Maybe the "she" reference? Sorry I didn't know, and just made the assumption based on the name (not there's anything about the name that necessarily indicates female, but anyway).

As for your recommendations, they fly directly in the face of scientific evidence and modern arboricuture. The evidence that contraindicates "tarring cut limbs", for instance is pretty overwhelming. The only people I ever hear supporting that practice are the people that make the tree goop (aka snakeoil salesmen) and people who just don't really know (those that heard it from an acquaintance of a friend of a relative, etc).

This forum has many arborists and horticultural experts, and I'd bet that none of them would support such a disproven technique for general practice. I certainly would not. I don't know where you derive your information, but I'd respectfully suggest abandoning those sources!

Secondly, while it's possible that something the tree pruners did would cause limbs to drop this soon, it's not common. Limbs don't start rotting and breaking down that fast, even with the worst of tree-pruning practices. I'd suspect that maybe the owners of the tree had the work done in response to falling limbs (guessing).

Unprofessional tree workers (not what I'd call arborists) can indeed cause serious problems with trees. Those hat-rack butcher jobs, that are so common around here, do indeed frequently cause limb and total-tree failure, but just not usually within a month.

Lastly, even healthy trees drop limbs. There are no such things as 400 year old oaks that have never lost limbs, at least not on this planet. Maybe you were just saying that nothing as serious as what you've noticed lately has happened, to your knowledge, in the past, but one must realize that trees drop limbs as part of their normal way of life.

+oM

+oM

Really I pruned a branch on a walnut tree which was just encapsulated now a decade later. On my young Acer rubrum the structural wood always cracks when exposed to air by pruning cuts. Ants and rain have been getting in there for two years now.

Too bad I dont know what to seal it with. Ridiculous on a species which will live through encapsulating bicycles and metal fences we can't figure out what does not transfer to the live part of the tree and cause damage.

I know you've been around here long enough to know that the similarities between a tree wound and a wound to a mammal's skin are few. Trees encapsulate while mammals heals, just for starters. But, I've used tree bandaids before. Polyethylene placed over fresh, large wounds for a relatively brief period of time has been shown to be beneficial in certain situations.

Sure, we have a lot to learn about plants, but I think we also know quite a bit. I get much more frustrated with the lack of knowledge I see in human medicine than I do with any lack of knowledge about tree physiology.

Now where 'leave a a tree alone' probably indicates not to trim the tree to start with, or trim out along the branches that were theoritically endangering the house, preferably along a branch nodule that would redirect the branch.

HOWEVER the same radical trimming takes place, the louses then start quoted well do nothing to the tree. Which is at least neglegent, as the damage has been done.

On this tree we see the third wave of branches snapping, and we can see where trimming has been done many years before holes where the limbs were trim and an essentially hollow third of the tree. Obviously seal the cuts, anyone with PRACTICAL experience would say to do so.

1. systemic shock
2. protecting the exposed wood from whatever.

apparently the only reason not to by those who 'read', is the cost of the foam/paint as so far espoused. What's the name of the foam purported to be used in trees (my original question) that I may go out and support that oh so bad company, and save a landmark tree or two.

and the concerned reader/observer finds?

Tree topping is now illegal...well it should be.

+oM

My theory is sometimes they just break. Oak is HARD but cracks when you drive screws into it. The breezy day we had last week probably contributed.

Them poor trees have all that growth coming from the topping wounds.

Unless you have references as to the studies of the PHD team who's defended their own thesis as to why not to paint or tar cuttings, rather not hear from the clown who wait at their cubical for someone to tell them what to say. I fire those sorry clowns as detremental, time wasting and targets of bad company.

I've seen studies where the worst shared opinion was the most vocalized as if someone could be so far wrong and be o.k. that some nominal safety was provided, also a simular phenomenon is noticed, theory is such desk huggers will rot away.

if somone started saying it is a Proven Study to make sheep sounds loudly in public was the way to stay healty, and someone copied this example and quoted the proven study, there would be bleating support groups and you would be in them.

Now if someone had said, "I've never heard of polyurethane Isocyanate." I would have said "Amen Brother or Sister", that someone could have helped research to see if it was also used as a weed killer would have been helpful, lazy fracked bastards, think of the least effort, make no reply at all.

+oM

I disagree. I don't think Sage could get a thing out of reading Shigo, and that's in no way meant to be a reflection on Shigo. (-;

But I will try to do it politely in a way which will make more conversation than anger. Medical science has gone through plenty of opinion changes over the years.

+oM

ps......The tree wound in question tells a complete tale as to why decay was able to advance. Note the shape of the pruning wound-pointed on the bottom. That's where the weight of the limb caused the bark and some cambium to be torn off because the person who made the cut didn't know or care to do it properly. At this point, the tree's natural defenses were compromised and decay was inevitable. I know you know all this Brandon. Maybe, just maybe, someone who is still clinging to long outmoded ideas will take note. Maybe not!