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jujujojo_gw

A nicely colored Magnolia blooming.

jujujojo_gw
9 years ago

See new post here. Thank you.

This post was edited by jujujojo on Fri, Jan 30, 15 at 23:19

Comments (20)

  • jujujojo_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Pictures were taken in May 2014 Guangzhou, China.

  • jujujojo_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    The magnolias in the first post are not Magnolia insignis.

    This post was edited by jujujojo on Sun, Jan 25, 15 at 13:05

  • poaky1
    9 years ago

    Taken in May, okay. If you'd have said now, you'd have some peeps here wanting to kick your butt....just joking. My yard had a nice balmy 50F for a high and is now 39F, so not too bad for here, but next week could well be -10F for all I know. Nice pics BTW. Poaky1

  • jujujojo_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    â¢Posted by poaky1 6 Pa (My Page) on Mon, Jan 19, 15 at 19:08

    Are you located on the east side of Pennsylvania?

  • jujujojo_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    The magnolias in the first post are not Magnolia insignis. There were a few M. insignis planted near the building. Their flowers are smaller (cute) but they produced no color the year. Images below show that M. insignis is quite different from the Magnolias shown in the first post.

    {{gwi:2121420}}

    {{gwi:2121421}}

  • Embothrium
    9 years ago

    You should be looking at good descriptions when checking identifications.

  • georgeinbandonoregon
    9 years ago

    possible that it might be magnolia (aka manglietia) garrettii???

  • jujujojo_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    â¢Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on Sun, Jan 25, 15 at 13:12

    â¢Posted by georgeinbandonoregon z9 OR (My Page) on Sun, Jan 25, 15 at 14:36

    I think it is unlikely to be Magnolia garrettii which has a labelled specimen planted nearby.

    After examine the plants at here, I believe this is a Magnolia grandis. Let me know if there is any objection.

    It appears that Magnolia grandis is listed as IUCN Red List as Critically Endangered B2ab(i,ii,iii,v); D ver 3.1 for 2014 ... too bad.

    This post was edited by jujujojo on Sun, Jan 25, 15 at 17:58

  • Dave in NoVA • N. Virginia • zone 7A
    9 years ago

    That's a beauty. Wish they were hardy here. Great photos!

  • jujujojo_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    â¢Posted by dave_in_nova VA zone 7a (My Page) on Sun, Jan 25, 15 at 17:06

    Is their known hardiness established?

  • Dave in NoVA • N. Virginia • zone 7A
    9 years ago

    Given that it is native to tropical China (southern provinces), I wouldn't hold out much hope that it could survive our zone 7. LOL!

  • jujujojo_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    â¢Posted by dave_in_nova VA zone 7a (My Page) on Mon, Jan 26, 15 at 8:58

    Then, why are they not spread into Thailand, Vietnam or Myanmar? Both Yunnan and Guizhou are on a plateau with significant mountains. And there are mountain ridges in those countries. When you go up a mountain it gets colder and colder. I would think the weather of Virginia plain is really humid and warm. Are you on the east side of Virginia?

    This post was edited by jujujojo on Mon, Jan 26, 15 at 10:15

  • Dave in NoVA • N. Virginia • zone 7A
    9 years ago

    What would be the minimum temperatures Magnolia grandis typically experiences?

    I've never been to China.

  • jujujojo_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    â¢Posted by dave_in_nova VA zone 7a (My Page) on Mon, Jan 26, 15 at 13:10

    Hi Dave, very few Chinese have seen the species. It is not common, as noted by IUCN study. Based on here, these are grown successfully in the US. I assume they have not succeeded to the extent of making it a product. The US grower is located in North California, to the north of San Francisco. The location has winter average 19ú F, that would be zone 8. But I don't know if anyone has tried these in zone 7 because there are so few plants. If California is successful, I would assume Virginia, the Carolinas and Georgia would be more successful. Assuming you have not seen them in Virginia, have you called the gardens in North Carolina?

    It is said that Magnolia grandis is a large magnolia which grows to 20 meters (65.62 feet). In Yunnan, they occur on South and South West slopes of mountains at an elevation of 800 to 1500 meters (4921.26 feet) above sea level. There is no seedling of the plants found. People suspect that the humidity may caused the seeds to rot naturally.

    This post was edited by jujujojo on Mon, Jan 26, 15 at 13:58

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    9 years ago

    Based on this...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangzhou

    We would certainly consider Guangzhou a very mild city, USDA zn 10b at worse but probably more like 11. It's probably more correct to call it subtropical versus tropical, but from our mainland US POV that's really splitting hairs.

    In any case - whether the species ID is correct or not - there are many, many plants from Yunnan and Guizhou that are not hardy in the mid-Atlantic US. Seem my other posts for discussions of the anomalous mildness (actually, more like temperature stability) of SW China. Unless it is from quite high elevation there's little hope for it to be hardy. And plenty of plants aren't. I think of the high elevation ultimately being conifer forests, this looks more like a low-to-mid elevation species. Take this plant for example, native to Yunnan: http://www.smgrowers.com/products/plants/plantdisplay.asp?plant_id=2246
    Barely zn 9 hardy...yet still needs cool summers and doesn't grow in the US SE!

    Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.smgrowers.com/products/plants/plantdisplay.asp?plant_id=2246

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    9 years ago

    BTW thanks for the pictures and metadata, Jujujojo. We are privileged to have someone share these rare treasures of the magnificent Chinese flora.

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    9 years ago

    " If California is successful, I would assume Virginia, the Carolinas and Georgia would be more successful. "

    No, actually, not at all. I don't know the grower you refer to in northern California...maybe I missed it. But take Sonoma Horticultural Nursery for example. This climate seems, superficially, to have much warmer summers than the Bay Area. 85/58 versus 72/53-ish. But the cool nights and lack of summer innundation means root-rot sensitive plants flourish in the climate...such as the Rhododendron xanthocodons which grow in high elevation Yunnan. But that series of Rhododendrons is basically ungrowable on the east coast anywhere south of Cape Cod. (and barely growable north of Cape Cod for the opposite reason; although there are plants of cinnabarinum hybrids like 'Biskra' in the most sheltered gardens of Nova Scotia)

    Who knows whether this Magnolia has such sensitivity to heat; that fact it grows in a hot coastal city would seem to argue it does not. However it might have been grafted onto something more suitable for the region. Who knows...I certainly don't as I know very little about China's horticultural practices. But in parts of the West, certainly the majority of it, grafting of rare Magnolia cultivars and species is the standard propagation technique. I should know, I just did my yearly trimming of rootstock suckers on various cultivars and hybrids like 'Tina Durio' and Magnolia ÃÂ wieseneri. Magnolia delavayi has been reported in the US SE, but is quite rare, and those plants could be grafts onto M. grandiflora for all I know. Maybe Magnolias are less likely to have such root issues, but I don't think they are immune from them. I'm pretty sure I've read that Magnolia wilsonii is not growable in climates with very hot summers...and the NCSU doesn't have one which is always an ominous sign. JCR was surely aware of them and anxious to try one as they are a classic collector's plant in Europe.

    Looking at the NCSU Arb. pages I spotted this. Certainly wouldn't mind having one! The flowers are small but the habit is superior to many M. virginianas I've seen.

    Here is a link that might be useful: http://jcra.ncsu.edu/resources/photographs/plants-results.php?serial=108812

    This post was edited by davidrt28 on Mon, Jan 26, 15 at 17:55

  • jujujojo_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    â¢Posted by davidrt28 7 (My Page) on Mon, Jan 26, 15 at 17:37

    Hi David, the pictures in the first post are not taken in the wild. They are taken in Guangzhou Botanical Garden. But Magnolia grandis has no population in the entire Guangdong province whose capital is Guangzhou.

    So, I figure that this tree comes from one tree that China harvested from the wild in Yunnan. Because Guangzhou is a reasonably sized city and Magnolia grandiflora grows well there. Many workers in Guangzhou have experience growing Magnolia grandiflora; and they know how to grow Magnolias well in the botanical garden there. Hence, the plant was shipped and planted there. Guangzhou and the entire Guangdong province do not have any of the species Magnolia grandis. I am certain that the plant was shipped there by humans and then, the pictures were taken a few years later in Guangzhou.

    I am almost certain that the plant in the first post is Magnolia grandis now. Compare the leaves and flowers with the US grower's pictures in North California. However many Magnolia grandis in the wild did not look exactly like it. Some even had pendant flowers, possibly different species? Because so many species go through a decline, many would be present by just one known tree. But most people would not be willing to accept one tree as one species, maybe, especially when they are similar to known species. In any case, I imagine this Magnolia is from the remaining Yunnan population.

    â¢Posted by davidrt28 7 (My Page) on Mon, Jan 26, 15 at 17:37

    David, I have very limited knowledge, but I can feel the rapid decline and destruction by development and change. I think the wealth of ornamental species in the area deserve to survive and they truly have market potential. Solutions, plans and strategies are needed to address the situation; but time has been running out for too many species in the last 20 years.

    This post was edited by jujujojo on Mon, Jan 26, 15 at 18:43

  • jujujojo_gw
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    â¢Posted by davidrt28 7 (My Page) on Mon, Jan 26, 15 at 17:52

    The light pink color of Magnolia virginiana ÃÂ M. insignis is so wonderful. I would believe Magnolia gandis is easier to grow than Magnolia insignis. The plant and leaves of Magnolia grandis are much larger. I believe Magnolia grandis is more vigorous (or used to be). The tree is more tolerant to draught, cold and heat. The Californian grower wrote in their website that their trees have no problem growing, and their temperatures range from 19F to 103F. Maybe you could call them and see if they can give you a few branches for you to graft. I think they are a bontanical garden, so they may hand out these for free?

    This post was edited by jujujojo on Mon, Jan 26, 15 at 18:44

  • poaky1
    9 years ago

    Jujujojo, You asked me about my location in Pa, if I am in Eastern Pa. I am in SW Pa. I am about 40-50 miles from Pittsburgh, approximately. I am closer to West Virginia though. I am not in the warmer coastal area, but, not in the colder mountainous area either. I am in Fayette county, but, just about 7-8 (guesstimate) miles from the summit of the Laurel Highlands, where the cold and snow is likely a full hardiness zone lower. My friend is at the foot of the mountains, about 2.5 miles from the Jumonsville recreational camp, and the large cross that can be seen for miles. Her yard is too cold for a Southern Magnolia, which has done fine in my yard, even last year when it was -10F in my yard. People go and walk up the trail to it in the warmer months. The cross is lit up, and I can see it from my property. It's a big deal here in Hicktown. It is a nice area with some trails, and lots of Hemlock trees. Our state tree. I collected seed this past fall, but, I have never been successful at growing one in my yard, they didn't die with the Whooly Adelgid on them, either, they get pale and Chlorotic and lose their needles and they are dead, it all happens within a couple weeks, I've even tried Western Hemlock, the same happens to them. My soil PH is neutral 6.8. And the soil up the mountains where they are nice and green was 7.2. I had the pros test a sample from under 2 of the Hemlocks up the mountains. I just don't know what the problem is, I went off subject, but I'll leave it be, maybe someone who reads this has an answer? Poaky1