There was a notable Douglas fir tree felled in Lynn Valley, BC in 1902 which was 415 feet tall, and 14 ft 3" in diameter at the cut--fairly well documented by several independent sources. Other giants almost as tall were found in Lynn Valley, and Vancouver.

In 1897, a fir tree was reportedly felled at the Loop Ranch, the forks, (Now Alpenglow farms) Whatcom County, Washington. The tree was 465 ft tall, 33 ft 11 in circumference at the butt (10 ft 10" diam), and 220 feet to the first branch. It scaled 96,345 estimated board feet, and was 480 years old according to the rings.

I find it interesting that there may have been trees as tall as radio masts growing in the foothills of the Cascades. Even if the Whatcom tree's dimensions were exaggerated or confused by 100 feet, we are still left with a 365 ft tree.

Yet, I am beginning to consider that the 465 is indeed a genuine measurement, simply because a volume of 96,345 merchantable feet would require a tree over 400 feet tall with that slender of a trunk (10 ft 10). If the tree were "only" 365 feet tall, 96% of the tree's volume would be considered merchantable, which seems too generous an estimate. But if the tree was indeed 465 feet tall, 76% would be merchantable which correlates with a realistic figure of 96,345 feet. (I figure that the tree would have totaled 127,729 Absolute Board feet).

465 feet places Douglas-fir as tallest tree in the Northern hemisphere. And indeed, other reports of 400 footers abound.

Resin

would that be your oft repeated [by me ... lol] theory of a trees inability to push water any higher, based on gravity???

ken

But I am sure that the tallest trees of all kinds of tall trees were cut down at some point in the past. I have little doubt that some redwood trees taller than the tallest known living one were cut down long ago. For redwoods is would not seem impossible that one or more may have been 400 feet tall--that would be just a small percentage increase over the tallest one know known. And 98% of the original redwood forests have been cut, including those in areas reported to have had the finest stands, including places such as the flats along the Klamath River in Northern CA. But for some Doug fir to have been 100 or more feet taller than any known now just does not seem possible to me.

--Spruce

"The Mineral Tree was the largest Douglas fir ever recorded....Although the top was broken, the piece of it lying on the ground was measured at 168 feet in 1911, and again measured at 160 feet in 1925; the difference was probably owing to the smaller top section having decayed. The standing bole was measured several times, most recently in 1925. This lower section was 225 feet, making the original total height of the tree 393 feet, far taller than any tree living today. Picnickers had the nasty habit of building fires against the tree, which eventually hollowed it out enough for [University of Washington forester] McCardle and a friend to count 1,030 rings before the tree toppled in 1930"

What proof is there that the piece on the ground came from the top, rather than being a second trunk starting much lower down? None, I bet. Yet such reiteration (multiple trunks) is common, even normal, in very old conifers.

Resin

all fish stories get bigger.. the more the alcohol flows ...

its not like way back when.. they jumped on the mule ... high tailed it to the indian path ... out to the RRoad.. and down to the telegraph office to send word back to the scientists who record such info ..

i would presume more than one saloon or loggers camp liquor hole was visited ... leading me to believe.. that perhaps the numbers are no better than fish stories ...

ken

I am skeptical about the 465 ft claim, but the details are interesting. If the tree was actually 365 feet, how then did they obtain 96,345 merchantable board feet of lumber from a tree that size and thickness?

Lumbermen generally discarded a size-able section of the top of the tree, and I assume this tree scaled 96,345 usable board feet, with the top gone.

Anyway, I hiked through a lot of Doug fir forest and had some good views with long perspectives over the forest. What struck me at the time was that there were no Doug firs that were outstandingly taller than others in the forest--the forest did not have any outstanding "emergents" rising high above the general canopy. This is just one thing that makes me skeptical that a tree grew somethere that was fully 100 feet or more taller than the maximum height that the Doug firs generally achieve, and most likely something like 150 feet above the general forest canopy.

I have seen more of a tendency with redwood trees to have some individual trees clearly taller than their neighbors of the same species, but never to the degree claimed for the Douglas fir. I remain a very, very strong skeptic.

--Spruce

We have lots of information regarding east coast species as well as some on west coast species. There are also plenty of article about accurate tree height measurement methods, historical tree height claims, etc.

Very valid point. Douglas-fir has quite brittle branches, and readily loses its side branches as soon as it gets up into any exposure above surrounding trees. An emergent would be at a very significant disadvantage.

Different with Picea sitchensis, where the forest canopy often shows much more variation in tree heights with odd singles sticking well above the rest.

Resin

"The pattern of slowed height growth in older stands is common to both Sitka spruce and Douglas fir. While the ultimate height and size of Sitka spruce and Douglas fir are similar, Sitka spruce achieves these dimensions in about half the time"

--Van Pelt, R. 2007. Identifying Mature and Old Forests in Western Washington. Washington State Department of Natural Resources, Olympia, WA.

And they have their own nomination and recognition system that does not necessarily keep up with the most recently discovered examples.

Walter Draycott, historian from Lynn Valley BC, recollects that the average fir trees in his district were 4 to 6 feet in diameter and 150 to 250 feet, but giants were sometimes found measuring 11 to 14 feet in diameter and as tall as 352 and 415 feet. Certainly gigantism was not the norm.

300 Oregon City, OR, 1850. Quarterly of the Oregon Historical Society – pg. 207, 1916.
300 "Douglas fir trees were cut on the site of the city of Vancouver 300 feet in height and 11 feet in diameter." The Encyclopedia Americana By Scientific American, inc 1903.
300+ William Clark, March 10, 1806. 39 feet girth, 6 ft above ground, estimated 200 feet to first limbs.
304 Jedediah Smith Redwoods State park. 13.5 dia
305 Woss Lake on northern Vancouver Island. 18 ft diam.
305 NW CA. 2007
300c. Est. orig. ht of Clatsop Fir, Clatsop, OR. Blown down 1962,-
200.5 ft to broken top 4.5 ft dia. Breast ht diam 15.48 ft.
306 W of Roseburg, OR. Esquire-The Wrestless man. 2004
307. Finnegan's Fir, OR. Blown down 1975. Officially listed at 302 ft.
309 British Columbia, displayed at International Exhibition. By Aeneas McDonell Dawson –1881
311 9 feet diameter.—Housing By National Housing Association Published 1935.
311 9’4" diam. 50,000 board feet, 434 years old, cut in Washington State, Aug. 16, 1926.
Spirit of the Lakes by David K Peterson, 2004.
311 Aberdeen, Wash. 1929 Appleton Post Crescent
312 Felled in 1886, Georgia St. Vancouver, BC – [Vancouver Art Gallery] Fir tree measured 13 feet diam at breast height, and 4 feet in diam 200 feet from butt.
312 "The Hunters & Serjt Pryor informed us that they had Measured a tree on the upper Side of quick Sand River 312 feet long and about 4 feet through at the Stump." The Journals of Lewis and Clark. April 5, 1806.
315 Skagit River, alluvial bottom.The Washington Forest Reserve by Horace Beemer Ayres, Geological Survey (U.S.) 1899. pg 295.
315 Coquitlam River watershed at Meech Creek, BC
318 A fallen fir tree measured by Lewis and Clark, Saturday, April 5th, 1806, not far from fort Vancouver [near Gresham]. Only 3.5 feet diameter. [Possibly Sitka Spruce]
320+ Est. orig. ht of Red Creek Fir, Vancouver IS, BC. 239 ft to broken top, diameter of broken top 2.95 ft . Diam at breast ht 13.9 ft
320 Koksilah Giant, British Columbia--blown down 1979 after clearcut.
320 Olympic Natl Park WA. 16 ft dia
320 James Irvine Fir -- Prairie Creek State Park/ James Irvine Trail, Cal.
321 Humboldt Fir -- Prairie Creek State Park, Cal.
321 Cathcart, Wa. -- The Washington Forest Reserve by Horace Beemer Ayres, Geological Survey (U.S.) 1899. pg. 300
322 Near Eugene Oregon, NE of Lowell. A 500 yr old grove of Douglas Fir averaging about 300 feet in height. The tallest measured at 322.—Moon Oregon, pg 202, by Elizabeth Morris, Mark Morris. 2007
324 Chehalis, Lewis Co. Wa. Oak Tribune 1934
324 Wa--900 yr old, Times Recorder, Nov. 1935
325 Tallest Douglas Fir in Stanley Park, BC, Toppled in 1926.
325 Skagit Co. Wa. Illabot Creek, 5 miles east of Rockport, 1910. 10 ft diam. Measured as a fallen tree on the property of Henry Martin.
326 Queets Valley, Washington.
328 Sedro Woolley, WA 1906. 17 ft diam
330 According to the United States Department of Agriculture, Technical Bulletin published in October, 1930, there is a standing Douglas Fir near Little Rock, Washington, which is 330 feet in height, with a diameter of approximately 6 feet.
330+ Est orig. ht of tree, from mast 304 feet tall 28 in diam at butt, 12 in diam at top single Douglas Fir spar used as Radio mast in Portland. Sagas of the Evergreens, By Frank H. Lamb, Published 1938.
335 - "It may not be generally known that many specimens of fir found on the shores of Puget Sound equal in height the infamous giant Sequoia or "Big tree" of California, for firs have been cut down which were over 325 feet in length from topmost branch to the edge of the cut, not including eight or ten feet of the trunk left standing above the roots."
"Engineering In The Logging Industry In The American Pacific Northwest" - Cassier's Magazine Vol. XXIX April, 1906 No. 6
339 Doerner Fir [Brummitt Fir], Coos Co. OR. 11.5 Dia, est. 500-600 yr old. 339 ft to lowest portion of trunk.
340 -Pe Ell, Wa.
340+ - Puget Sound, 42 ft around. over 79,218 board feet. Spring of 1904 Mccormick Lumber Co. Lewis Co, WA Sent to St. Louis Exhibition.--The Indian Forester - Page 320
340-50 – A Washington yellow fir tree 7 feet 11 in diameter and 340 feet long – The School Journal, Published 1893 E.L. Kellogg & Co. pg. 85 [This tree was also described as 350 feet in total height: Chicago: Its History and Its Builders--Josiah Seymour Currey, 1918 . pg 78]
340 6 km N of Cloverdale, BC. Felled by loggers in 1917, Measured by
Dr Al Carder and father as a boy.
347 Astoria, Oregon Douglas Fir cut for flagpole 251 feet tall, Panama-Pacific Exposition.-- Pamphlets on Wood Preservation, 1900-1915, University of California.
348 "Forest Service records a Douglas Fir with a measured height of 380 feet, and I, personally, have seen many over 300, one 348." By Joseph T. Hazard, Pacific Crest Trails from Alaska to Cape Horn--1948, pg. 64
350 "Tallest Tree in State," 350 ft tall, 16 dia. - Sedro Woolley, Wa. 1902. Darius Kinsey photo collection – Kinsey photographer, 1978 —pg. 152-153
350 Many trees, each over 280 feet tall, have been measured about Blaine [Wa]. Others in that vicinity and elsewhere reach to a height of 350 feet. – Forest Leaves – pg. 162 by Pennsylvania Forestry Association, American Forestry Association, 1890.
350 - "In Skagit County is a forest of Douglas pine and white cedar in which there are many trees reaching 325 feet high, and some of them are fully 350 feet high."
Forest Leaves - Page 162 by Pennsylvania Forestry Association, 1922.
350+ "The trees of our forests, owing to the favorable influences referred to, are of rich, dark green foliage, rapid growth to enormous proportions, commonly from 3 to 6 feet in diameter, 350 feet high, sometimes more, and 185 feet to the first limb. This I state from actual measurements from trees prone on the ground." Fifth Biennial Report to the Board of Horticulture – Oregon Board of Horticulture,1898 pg. 545
350 c. Fir, Westholme, Vancouver Is. BC. Blown down 1913,
1500 yr old, 16-dia. 180 ft to blown top, and 150 ft to first branch.
350+ est. orig. Ht of Queets Fir, Queets River, WA. 202 ft to broken top 6.7 ft dia. Breast ht. diameter is 15.9 ft. Over 1,000 years old.
350 Est. Height. Fir cut down in King Co. Wa measured 9 ft in diameter at the butt, and 4 ft 8 in at the top, 186 ft long, and scaled 64,000 feet of lumber. – Report By Washington (State). Bureau of Statistics, Agriculture and Immigration, 1896. pg. 33
350+. a "Douglas Pine" Dr. Forbes measured that was 320 ft to broken branches, and as thick as his waist where the trunk broke. He made out the average Douglas Pine ranged somewhat over 300 feet in height in British Columbia, based on measured trees. Proceedings of the Royal Geographical Society Volume VIII, 1863-4.
350 "On the site of what is now Vancouver city--the present terminus of the Canadian Pacific Railway--and in the neighborhood of that town, on Burrard Inlet, was a renowned group of these trees, and "many still standing around the city, are from 250 to 350 feet high and 12 feet in diameter at the base, or about 36 feet in girth," growing so close together that the trees almost seem to touch each other..." - The Wilderness and Its Tenants - By John madden 1897, pg. 168.
350 "Firstly, it may be said that previous to the year 1885, the place now occupied by this city [Vancouver] was a wilderness of gigantic trees, some of them being fully twelve feet diameter a few feet above the ground, and from 300 to 350 feet in height, all of which had to be cut down and rooted out before a house could be built." - 3800 Miles Across Canada - By John Wilton Cuninghame Haldane 1908, pg 224.
352 Lynn Valley, N Vancouver BC, Felled in 1907, 9 ft 8 in diameter. 220 feet to lowest branch. This tree contained 16 logs of wood, 16 feet per log. Top 92 feet discarded. Height 352 feet including 4 ft stump. Details are recounted by historian Walter Mackay Draycott of Lynn Valley, BC.
355 "The tallest tree on record in Canada today is a Douglas fir in Strathcona Park
on Vancouver Island. It is over 108 m tall." -- Countdown Canada: A conceptual Geography study, By Alderdice, Roy, 1941-, Sled, George, 1941-, Vass, Ben, 1934-Published 1977 Macmillan of Canada
358 Cloverdale, Surey, BC. Tallest Fir measured by a BC forester.
Discovered in 1881 by William Shannon, while constructing Hall's Prairie Rd.
Measured after being Felled, 1,100 yr old. 11.5 ft dia.
375-400 Est ht. [Astoria, Oregon c. 1846 ] "There was a monstrous fir pine that had been blown up by the roots, and it looked as if it had been down for many years. Some of the boys measured it and reported that it was twelve feet in diameter at the butt and three hundred and thirty feet in length to where it had been sawed off to make a roadway. It was eighteen inches in diameter where it had been sawed off ; so the boys concluded that it must have been about four hundred feet high." -- Burr Osborn, Survivor of Howison Expedition to Oregon, 1846 -- Oregon Historical Quarterly - Page 361 by Oregon Historical Society - Oregon – 1913
380 Nisqually R. Wa, 1899/1900 measured as a fallen tree. Portion of top missing. Measured with steel tape by USFS ranger Edward Tyson Allen, one of the early technically trained foresters who was stationed in Portland, Oregon.
393 Mineral, Wa. Blown down 1930, 1,020 yr old. 15.4 ft. diam at breast ht. 6 ft. in diameter at 225 ft. Measured by USFS Chief Richard McArdle in 1924 with steel tape and Abney level. Additional 168 ft of blown top measured on the ground and recorded in 1905-1911 by Joe Westover, land engineer from Northern Pacific Railway, and measured again by McArdle and Leo Isaac in 1924-25 at 160 feet. A section of this tree still resides at the Wind River Arboretum, Wa.
400 "In the typical fir forests, the trees, crowded close together, become very tall, two hundred fifty to four hundred feet high, and sometimes eight to twelve feet in diameter."
The Pacific Monthly by William Bittle Wells – 1903 pg. 345
400 "The maximum height known is nearly 400 feet; the greatest diameter of the stem is 14 feet. Can be grown very closely, when the stems will attain, according to Drs. Kellogg and Newberry, a height of over 200 feet without a branch." - Select Extra-Tropical Plants Readily Eligable For Industrial Culture Or Naturalization, With Indications Of Their Native Countries And Some Of Their Uses. - Baron Ferd. Von Mueller, 1884 pg. 268
400 "From the Cascade range to the Pacific, compromising about one-half of Washington Territory, the surface is densely covered with the finest forest growth in the world. Some of the trees, straight as an arrow, are four hundred feet in height, and fourteen feet in diameter near the ground." -- Resources of the Pacific Slope: A Statistical and Descriptive Summary... By John Ross Browne 1869, pg 574
400 "Here, too, it reaches its greatest dimensions, it being claimed that about the base of Mt. Rainier there are trees [Douglas Fir] over 400 feet in height." The American Naturalist 1899 by American Society of Naturalists, pg. 391
400 "In its native habitats, the Douglas fir varies considerably in dimensions. In the forests of Washington State it often reaches a height of 250 feet, with a girth of 36 feet. There, trees so high as 300 feet have been seen. These trees are therefore more than twice the height of Nelson's Column in Trafalgar Square and would even over-shadow the Boston stump. Trees even much loftier than this have been seen, some of them almost reaching the height of the Spire of Salisbury Cathedral which is a little over 400 feet. Specimens have been known to be more than 750 years old." Trees in Britain, By Lionel John Farnham Brimble, Macmillan, 1946 – pg 98.
400 c. 1908, "Robert E. Lee" tallest tree of Ravenna Park, Seattle, Wa. Felled in 1926.
400+ As it lay. Puget Sound, 1876 correspondence from Mr. Sproat to Robert Brown, Book: The countries of the world.
400. Kerrisdale District, S Vancouver, BC. Felled in 1896. Julius Martin Fromme superintendent of Hastings Mill, says it was the largest Fir ever received by the Mill at almost 400 ft long. Bark up to 16" thick. 13' 8" butt diam.
400 Logged by MacMillan Export Company, Copper Canyon, Vancouver Island, BC.
415 Lynn Valley, N. Vancouver B.C. Felled in 1902 by the "Tremblay Brothers" at Argyle Rd off Mountain Highway (Centre Rd) on the property of Alfred John Nye. The felled fir tree measured 410 feet long--still growing, and 5 feet tall at the stump where the diameter was 14 feet 3 inches, and bark 13.5 in thick. Details are recounted in correspondence between historian Walter Mackay Draycott, and Mr. Alfred John Nye, both of who lived contemporaneously in Lynn valley, B.C.
465 1897 A fir-tree cut down at Loop's Ranch Forks, Whatcom county, Washington, was 465 feet high, 220 feet to the first limb, and 34 feet in circumference at the base and scaled 96345 feet of lumber – The New York Times, Topics of the Times, March 7, 1897, The Overland Monthly, 1900, pg. 329, The Columbia River Empire by Patrick Donan, Oregon-Washington Railroad and Navigation Company, 1899, pg. 68, & Meehans' Monthly: A Magazine of Horticulture, Botany and Kindred Subjects Published by Thomas Meehan & Sons, 1897.

In those days the "high lead" logging used a different kind of rigging than is common today, with the log landing commonly on the lower ground with road access, with a large yarding engine placed next to the spar tree, at the top of which was a block through which the cables, mainline and haulback, ran. Today much of the logging is done with a portable kind of machine with its own mechanical "spar," and then a motorized carriage runs along a stationary line with chokers hanging from that. Much smaller rigging and chokers, much less complex schemes for moving the logs. For me all the "romance" of the old fashioned logging is gone.

--Spruce

There are two factors working in areas like those where I worked as a choker setter in Oregon to produce the larger douglas-firs on the lower slopes and near the streams. First, this is often where the richest sites are--more moisture and deeper soils.

But in this situation I think the main issue was vulnerability to destruction by fire. Often the massive forest fires that occasionally hit that region are most destructive as the fires roar up the slopes and over the ridgetops. All the trees in those areas would be destroyed by massive flames that would consume the crowns of the trees. On the lower portions of the slopes and valley bottoms the "firestorms" might not be so severe, and if a tree has some degree of isolation from other trees, the "crown fire" might not jump into the crowns of all the trees in the more protected locations.

And another factor is that the larger and stronger Douglasfir trees will have thicker bark, which is fairly fire resistant, affording some protection from damage to the trunk by the ground fires.

So, not only are the Dougles-fir trees growing in those locations faster and stronger growing, but they are less likely to be destroyed by fire. But, in spite of those factors favoring the survival of the larger Douglas-firs on the lower slopes and valley bottoms/streamsides, the wildifre that raged through the area in the early 1900's destroyed virtually all of the forest, including those larger trees in the more favored locations. The realy large old Doug-firs that survived were very scattered.

--Spruce

"I am giving a nature walk on native trees and shrubs in a couple of months and would like to be able to direct my audience to what is left of any of these monsters..."

Not sure if you would be near Crescent City, but there are some very hefty redwood stumps there according to reports.

We just found a new tallest live-top Douglas fir this week at 322' and there were quite a few large trunks and stumps in the forest. BLM forest east of Roseburg.

The Whatcom tree stump might still be there, it's worth a look. The current site of Loop's ranch is Alpenglow Farms.

It is rumored that a cross section of the Mineral fir (estimated at almost 400 feet tall) can still be seen at the Wind river Arboretum. The tree was 15 feet thick.

It's worth checking out.