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Having a "true" winter in your zone

Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (My Page) on
Sat, Feb 15, 14 at 8:09

Surely there isn't a definition beyond the actual minimum temp in a given winter but what do you look at to determine how "true" the winter has been in your zone?

More or less looking to gauge how hardy some plants are at least from a temp and snowcover perspective. Plenty other variables involved so just looking for directional comments.

For me average min in zone 5a is -15 to -20. I'm about 15 miles from zone 5b (-10 to -15). Average number of sub zero days is about 12.

For simplicity I'm looking at Dec 1st through Feb so far.

Out of 75 days, 36 day time highs have been at least 10 degrees below the average.

Out of 75 days, 15 day time highs have been at least 20 degrees below the average.

36 days with sub zero temps.

With that said would one simply conclude its been a very harsh Zone 5a winter even though we didn't exceed the minimum average temperature?

I think Oregon is going to have a solid 2014.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

I think it's more difficult to determine than you'd think initially. For us, Dec was actually warmer than average, with a couple of days in the 70s.

January ran about -5F from normal, with several lows that were in the low end of "average" for my zone, i.e., between 0 and 5 F. Other than one day flirting with 60 we didn't have any true "Warm" weather...for perspective, our averages for Jan are about 43/25.

Feb has been slightly below average, but nothing extreme, we've had teens for lows at the coldest, but snowfall was epic a couple days ago as you may know.

A "true" winter for us is like no other, because no two are alike. Some years have averaged near or even above normal, yet one BIG cold snap gives us a low below our zone rating ('86/'87, '08/'09).

others are consistently cold but no individual low is all that cold in perspective (this year and 2002/2003 most recent examples).


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

the truth????

i think mine is lying to me ...

ken


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

  • Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 15, 14 at 9:53

Sup metal for life, I guess your last two points are what I'm getting at.

So if ones Dec, Jan and Feb are above average but they get a temp that exceeds the average min one should only take with a grain a salt that a borderline plant survived their zone. I wish we had a more complete guage of winter hardiness, somewhat similar to Canada, but I know it gets a bit more complex.

Ken, she has lied to you over the last few decades. What is she telling you now?


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

For most of the stats the weather people are throwing around ,one has to look back to the winters of 81/82 or 78/79 for the last time this has happened. We actually haven't come very close at all to setting daily minimum records, it is all about the persistence of this cold. 44 nights at or below 0F so far.

Below from the latest U of M climate summary about current frost depths:

Topic: Frost depths

"Over the past week there were many reports of frozen water lines in residential areas. The persistent cold has produced deeper than normal frost penetration into the ground. Where snow cover has been thin the ground frost has gone deeper than 40 inches. Minnesota Department of Transportation notes that under roads and pavement some of their measurements show frost at 6 feet or deeper. Near Ottertail, MN frost was measured at 95 inches (nearly 8 feet), and in the Rochester area there were reports of a number of frozen water lines this week. For many parts of Minnesota frost depth has not been this deep since the 1970s."

We also had a very warm fall followed by a rapid freeze (low 20's) that froze a lot of plants green.


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

For those of us in states bordering the Great Lakes I think the amount of ice cover may say a lot about the winter. The ice cover currently is 84%, this is the highest percent since 1994. This has been a long and gruling winter in central Indiana. Jay


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

  • Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 15, 14 at 15:08

I got a notice today that the village wants us to run water 24/7 pencil thick stream from one faucet until further notice.

Apparently that frost is getting deep.


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

We had something like 12-13 frozen precip events according to a local meteorologist which is well above normal for our area. Winter was very cold and expensive. My heating bill for the last two months has a combined total of $650!! You guys up north... I really feel for ya

HOWEVER, I was out transplanting my heptacodium earlier today, and look what I found at the root collar right at the soil surface!! Spring is coming, and looks to stay at least a week looking at the wx models =))))))))


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

This is the closest to zone 6 I can recall since I have been noticing the daily highs and lows in my yard. We have had at least 8 below 0 F nights and some day and night being persistent for many hours being -0 F. I am glad because I know that a certain tree I am trying is hardy after temps that are a test to it's hardiness in my yard, and it will only get MORE hardy as it gets older and larger. It had gotten down to -10 F one night when -11 F was forcasted, so I had gone right to the edge of zone 6 temps.


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

My theory is a bad winter means different things to different types of trees.

Some borderline hardy trees will no doubt be bothered by the way we actually touched our -10F this year or by the number of days we stayed below zero.

Other trees may or may not benefit from out actual snow cover we are just now losing. A rariety for StLouis.

And I hear how cold it was may or may not affect our ground moisture. The theory is run off is greater when soil temps are low. This will bother trees which require more winter moisture I guess, not to mention plants with marginally hardy roots which can withstand cold above ground.

It is going to be interesting for sure.


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

This winter sucks.

Dax


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

  • Posted by beng z6 western MD (My Page) on
    Mon, Feb 17, 14 at 7:51

0F again this morning. Some moderation in a couple days. 50F would feel like shirt-sleeve weather here.


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

J0n ...

i hope you put the mulch back over that bud ....

ken


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

I sure did, Ken. I took the pic while the root ball was sitting on my shovel.

I would mention we hit 70*+ yesterday or that it was 50* when I got to work this morning, but I don't want to brag...


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

John shut you mouth or it will go away soon. And if it does.... IM BLAMING YOU NOW!!! :-(

Arktrees


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

LOL looking fine here in the RV, Ark! Lowest low forecast to be around freezing. I saw upper 20's for lowest low for NWA.

Today, I walked the "wild" area that I planted with a bunch of tulips and daffodils last fall. Some have pushed through the soil just since Saturday =)

This post was edited by j0nd03 on Thu, Feb 20, 14 at 11:01


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

Too bad those upper 20's are fantasy for me. It i currently 24F at 10 PM. Much better than it has been, but hardly spring.

Arktrees


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Warm weather? Maybe if you are west of the Rockies... I'd get ready for record breaking cold if you live east of the Mississippi... This (map above) covers the time period from Feb 25 to March 4th (i check this map daily)...this is one of the coldest looks it has had this winter and we all know (at least up here) how cold its been...


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

Sheesh Frank, I was setting him up....... LOL....

Actually there may be another cross polar jet stream setup sometime next week. If that happens, it won't be warm in the east. Ye Ole Siberian Express as they called them in the 70's.

Arktrees


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

The forecast for this morning was certainly way off. Forecast low was around 34-35 while I saw 25* at the airport when I woke up this morning. 25* is still an improvement over the last few weeks/month.

The plants know spring is coming even if we still get occasional shots of cold. Believe it!

The big jinx on the weather getting bad next week is the fact I have the week off. So, it actually is my fault, Ark hahaha


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

  • Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (My Page) on
    Tue, Feb 18, 14 at 16:37

Jon, when does your spring typically arrive? Hopefully your not getting set up for spring freezes.

That map is exactly why I need to hurry up and get my mail order from the PNW.


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

Our average last frost date is April 1-10. February warm spells like this are fairly common. The trees and shrubs aren't awake yet BUT it is pretty common for the early goers to wake up the end of Feb/early March. Silver maples should start flowering in the next couple of weeks. I'll look at my bud break excel sheet and edit this post.

Edit: Just checked the records and last year, which was a fairly typical winter, my a. rubrum October Glory began flowering the last day of February and Red Sunset began flowering March 12 it that helps. My forsythia began March 1st. Here in my frost hollow, we have a late frost just about yearly but nothing catastrophic, yet. I hope that streak lasts as long as possible!

I suspect our good friend ghostlyvision has flowering maples in her neighborhood atm. If not, it should be starting VERY soon

This post was edited by j0nd03 on Tue, Feb 18, 14 at 18:57


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

  • Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (My Page) on
    Wed, Feb 19, 14 at 20:37

I'm surprised how accurate that forecast is. Well over a week ago they predicted an arctic blast the last week of Feb going into March. I'd say so with temps being 15 to almost 30 degrees below average. This winter is just relentless. Evergreens are now showing extreme burning from the sun on the southside.

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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

Yesterday, we hit a high of 60 under sunny skies, after some FREEZING RAIN THUNDERSTORMS around 7 am...which was very weird...and some "regular" t-storms later in the AM in parts of the area. It felt great, but somewhat weird standing outside in the sunshine, looking around at the snow/slush (and puddles of water ALL OVER).

I seem to remember last year, and the year before, some of the Acer rubrums were starting to open their flower buds and take on their signature reddish hue, just ever so slightly at this time. The daffodils were up about 2-3" as well.

This year, the daffs are poking a bit, maybe an inch max, but have been in that state since late Dec and have not budged, and the trees, even the A. rubrums, still as dormant as they were the day their last leaves fell last fall. No sign of wakeup from the forsythias yet, either. Many years we see some of that by this time, even if just isolated pockets.


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

It is 60 F right now, and was 60 F for a high yesterday last night was 24 F, tonight, I don't know yet. A few nights ago it was -4F. For several hours. We have partial melt, I was able to look at some things, my Live oak "late drop" are still holding ugly tan leaves, with buds that still look promising for spring leaves to eventually come out. This winter has been a real pain in the butt. It's the first winter I needed a push to get my car out of the driveway, likely the ice under the wet abundant snow.


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

Nothing real or true about this Winter. Minimum was 5.0 F. back in January but the snow depth has been persistent (maxed out at two feet). Biggest problems associated with roof collapses and other structural damage from snow load, pot holes, and soon...Spring flooding. Minimum tree damage though. Should escape the worst of the next polar express but at a price. Hints of a major coastal storm coming midweek. 50's to near 60 today and tomorrow though.


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

  • Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 22, 14 at 14:11

This is reality for the upper midwest...a small sampling for your viewing pleasure. Things are getting ROCKED by the sun now and these aren't even my variegated conifers. Late Feb and most of March is where the most damage can happen due to the increased intensity and duration of the sun, along with freezing temperatures and frost extending 6' into the ground.

 photo photo1-2.jpg

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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

Wow, no pleasure in that! Were they established plants, or more recent? Is long-established plant/tree life also being affected?


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

Kinda makes me wonder, Whaas. We, one hundred miles further north, do not appear to have that same level of "burning" going on. I mean, none really, beyond the highway-side white pines that always look bad by now. Hell, go yet another 60 miles or so further north, and things look just fine.....to the point it almost seems they'll come through winter in great shape. Of course, all my little guys-the 6000 we planted last spring, etc...are and have been buried under snow for months now. I don't expect to see burning on them!

Quite a bit of "thunder sleet" Thurs. evening. That was interesting. Meanwhile, far NW WI had the slightly more well-known thunder snow, 18 inches worth. Peeps can't get out to see all the ice caves up by the Apostle Islands anymore.

+oM


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

  • Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 22, 14 at 18:11

I wouldn't expect much burning in your neck of the woods where you hit zone 4. All your going to have are zone 2, 3 and 4 plants like Picea abies, glauca, pungens and Pinus strobus, resinosa etc. Same as here you should only see burning on yew, boxwood and alberta spruce.

Most of what you see are zone 5 and borderline zone 4 plants. Doesn't help that they are only 3 to 4 years in the ground and some are now getting up to 10 hours sun.

Siberian spruce in full sun locations are now showing just a little bit of burn.

Surely what you see will likely live but they will be weakened. It is what it is. I just want to get out of the damn house where my two young kids bring home the nastiest crap from daycare.


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

Part of the problem is the reflection back off the snow, too. Some MAY re-foliate in spring.


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

Yes, there is some truth in that, whaas. However, I've got those blue Lawson's cypress planted up there in Z4. But heck, they've been completely snow-covered since Dec. Kind of hard to really gauge anything by that. It does appear to have been a good idea to cage around these 4 plants. Deer tracks like crazy all around. Still, my Thuja o. forest , as I'm sure I've related here before-gets no browsing whatsoever. Kind of strange all in all. Those things, BTW, do appear to be having no problem coping with this winter so far. I have seen widespread burning on Thuja o. stands in certain harsh conditions in the past. But again, this winter, thus far, does not seem to be providing those conditions.

+oM


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

Obvious spring is on now. Elms, silver and red maples flowering. Clethra Ruby Spice and Hummingbird as well as Aesculus pavia (pictured) breaking bud. Magnolia flower buds shedding outer cover. Redbud flower buds swelling rapidly. This all seemed to happen since I became hospital bound Friday morning. When spring decided to start, it went into a full sprint!

It's coming my frozen friends, it's coming

This post was edited by j0nd03 on Sun, Feb 23, 14 at 16:41


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

Get well, j0nd03, whatever ails ya. I won't say I can't imagine spring starting this early in the year-I can-but talk about what a difference a few hundred miles makes! We won't be seeing/feeling that particular yearly phenomenon for some time yet.

+oM


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

Tom, fortunately (or unfortunately) I will be reminded of my newly acquired "ailment" daily for the next 18 years at least! ;-)


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

whaas,
Sorry to see your plants are having such a tough time. I was sweating it a couple years ago after we got to -25F. But we didn't have a bunch of conifers telling us they were unhappy by turning brown either. I have every compassion for you and your conifers.

As for spring, John has been enjoying the fact that he is already beginning to show some spring for at least the last 7-10 days. He sent me a audio clip of the frogs croaking last week (for you very urban folks, frogs and later crickets, are as much of spring as flowers in our part of the world). John is significantly ahead of my location, despite that I'm only about 70 miles north and 800-900' elevation higher. Still, I'm seeing lots of signs here, that were nowhere to be found just a week ago. We have a chance for some snow this week, and it looks to be much colder for the next 10 days at least, but it's all downhill from here.Same for all of you.

Arktrees


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

The spring migration is ON

Here is a link that might be useful: Birds gorging themselves


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

Now that's funny, I imagined JOnd03 being a guy named John, cute kid, BTW. Congrats.


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

Husbands can go to the hospital when a baby is due. I always did. :-)
Congratulations!
Mike


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

Congrats!!!


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

Thanks everyone! Third time being a father. This one seems easier than the first two. Maybe I'm getting the hang of this...


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

Just wanted to add a tidbid to this thread. Saw a number of Silver Maples in full flower yesterday, along with Elms that very obviously have swollen buds and about to flower. There was none of this over the weekend. This flowering is despite the fact the weather had cooled considerable the previous couple of days. Also seeing the first Crocus as well. We are not done with winter (it's currently 16 degrees with 2 shot of possible winter weather in the forecast), but spring appears to be "chomping at the bit" ready to get it on. Take heart northern readers, spring in process, and appears to be very aggressive this year.

Arktrees


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

I'm watching the news this morning looking at all the ice dams in the upper midwest with temps in the teens.
Meanwhile, I'm enjoying the first rhododendron blooms of the season. This one is called 'Olive' and I usually get pictures of the blooms with snow on it. Some snow is forecast for later this weekend.
Sticking with the conifer theme, can you find the Thuja plicata?
Mike


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

I saw a bunch of snow outside. They say it MIGHT go up to zero tomorrow. I did some basic pruning, but for my smaller stuff I had to dig down several feet in the snow.


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

Congrats j0nd03! Very nice. I'm a grampa now and man I got to tell you, it's all true-the stereotypes about how you cherish your grandchildren! That being said, it is important that us tree-loving types have kids/grandkids......we must pass this love of nature forward!

+oM


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

It's 4 F now and is forecasted to be -2F for a bit in early AM. This is definitely a winter to remember, and or for the record book. I will literally make a note of it, because in a year or 2 I will forget which year we had the brutal winter in zone 6 Pa and surrounding areas.


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

  • Posted by beng z6 western MD (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 28, 14 at 9:01

About 0F again here. Some astonishingly low temps just north & northeast of Lake Superior -- below -40F.


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

Started having a faucet run 24/7.

Some Rhododendrons and hemlocks are pretty brown as well as one Chaemacyparis.


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

Magnolias at the Stephen F Austin campus are in bloom. BTW, Mike's picture above made the GW garden pic of the day so congrats to him. His garden could be featured weekly in all honesty...

And I saw this at the pediatrician's office earlier today. Hang in there just a bit longer guys.

Edit: Oh yeah, freezing rain/sleet mess coming for me and Ark Saturday night into Sunday but it is looking like we won't be hit quite as hard as it looked initially

This post was edited by j0nd03 on Fri, Feb 28, 14 at 18:55


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

John,
NO hate for anyone else, but I don't need anymore ice and snow for this winter. I appreciate the pics as it's feel pretty freakin cold out here at the moment.

Arktrees


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

The cold air is pouring down a little faster than expected. Just upgraded to an Ice Storm Warning. Yay...


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

Been thundersleet off and on all morning at my house. About an inch of sleet so far, with light snow occasionally mixed in. Got a while to go yet.

Arktrees


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

JOnd03, Sorry for the assumption you were the mom, congrats either way, you know what I mean.


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

NBD, poaky. I don't think I've ever been confused for a woman IRL. A grandpa once, but never a woman. I think the beard helps.

All of my daffs and tulips have poked through the soil and are on their way up!

After spending a few days encased in a glaze of freezing rain/ice and then buried in a couple inches of sleet and snow, the a. pavia I posted above has continued to push. We'll see if there is any damage from the cold (two nights in a row near 10*). This is about 11 days since the last pic.

Does anyone familiar with this species know if they are normally this early? I have read they are a good nectar source for early arriving hummingbirds but this seems a little too early


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

  • Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (My Page) on
    Thu, Mar 6, 14 at 21:07

Hey Jon,

A. pavia is the by far the earliest to bud for me and my plant is on a north facing slope near the house. It is extremely resilient to freezes and frosts. As the earliest to bud it one of the first to drop as well. I don't think I'm going to get you those weigela until June!lol

Well its no question that this was a very harsh winter for many.

Few stats for us....

Potentially going to break the record for longest streak with snow on the ground.

Potentially going to break the record for number of days with measurable snow.

11th Coldest winter on record

6th greatest number of days with sub zero temps (40 total - average is 12)

Its basically the worst winter since 1978/1979.


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

It was spring today for several hours. I checked my marginally hardy plants. My Mags, wild EG Grandifolia?, and Brackens Brown B look weatherbeaten, but buds are good. My Quercus Virginiana "late drop" are as follows: The tallest one has some top dieback, but underneath branches look good, dog yard 2 of them have some top die-back, but under-neath branches are okay. I think if it weren't for the last 2 -0 F evenings they would have bounced back with no die-back. Also their youth, with pencil lead thick branches was a factor. There are some that look like the are goners, they were planted in the fall, and didn't get roots in the ground to combat biting drying winds. I had one fall planted one that is likely to come back fine, it had a thick PVC pipe over it, and it fell onto the ground. Somehow being flopped to the soil level seems to have helped, plus it was close to the neighbors house.


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Things still moving along down here... Might get a little snow tomorrow...


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

duplicate*

This post was edited by j0nd03 on Sat, Mar 15, 14 at 18:24


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

The most accurate word describing this winter in my neck of the woods would be persistent. It's been a heck of a lot colder, we've had worse snow covers. But this one started early here and has just hung on, with very little break, especially during the polar vortices. I'm just thankful I retired three years ago and am not heating a range of greenhouses with expectations of making a profit. I'm heating one I kept for my personal use just above freezing. I don't think I've ever seen the ground frozen as deeply as it has this year, either. I know you all want warmth, but last year we had a late, cool spring and I'd rather go that direction than have all my fruit crop (what survived) annihilated by an early, warm spell and then plunging temps. I am seeing more than usual death in my grape vines .......some of my rhodies suffered, and the conifers are nastier brown than usual. Edith Bogue was insulted, but she'll get over it. I'm not going to make the same mistake I made last year, putting in my vegetable garden after the supposedly last frost date. It froze but good two weeks later. I saved everything, but not without gargantuan effort.


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It's too early to say most of winter is over. But I think the super cold (below zero) is done with. I will be starting some seeds in my basement soon. First will be Cabbage, broccoli,snap peas,


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  • Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (My Page) on
    Sun, Mar 16, 14 at 8:10

I thought the same as to avoiding early season freezes. Although after surveying the damage over the last couple weeks, I'd rather have a hard freeze kill off all new growth then have such a deep frost depth through April after this winter. I think back to 2012 when we had 70s and 80s in March then in April things got zapped. Lost but a couple plants and limited to no tip damage.

My landscape at my current home isn't as established so the loses and damage are severe. Not tip die back but death. Along with trunks, main laterals coming off the main trunks have brown cambium.
Average min lows mean nothing to me anymore. The persistence of the cold is what has been so damaging. I looked back at some of the casualties and the majority are zone 5 with a handful of not so surprising casualties but I have some zone 4 plants declining quickly.

With the longer days and the sun's intensity increasing it continues to dry out the plants that aren't able to cope. Soil has been frozen too deep and too long at this point. Any gains of thawing out the 1st inch of soil is quickly erased with a day like today with lows in the single digits and highs in the teens.

I believe ice cover records began in 1918. This March we broke a 37 year all time ice cover record for Lake Michigan. We didn't have record lows but this winter is sure one for the ages.

Lesson learned, and I actually planned to do it this year, plant more shade trees (zone 4 or lower) throughout the yard so the silhouettes can shade my garden beds during the winter. Any areas with winter shade, even dappled from near by tree silhouettes, have much less damage. Cambium is green and juicy for even the ones with damage. Go to areas with full sun and you can snap the branches/shoots of a similar species.


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

67 degrees yesterday, and heavy snow with 1-2" wide wet snowflakes today just after 11AM. Some of the biggest snowflakes I've seen. Saw some bigger when I was 12-13, but that's it. Yeap, weather in this part of the world can be a bit changeable.

Arktrees

This post was edited by arktrees on Sun, Mar 16, 14 at 13:00


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

Any of you northerners considering a move south after this winter? Seriously, I don't how you do it.

Looks like a couple more frigid shots of cold headed your way over the next week -10 days. Hope the pattern changes for you guys up there soon.


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  • Posted by beng z6 western MD (My Page) on
    Tue, Mar 18, 14 at 10:25

I'll post this again here since it's relevant:

Here is a link that might be useful: More cold waves


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

The good news, if there is such a thing...most of the time, the coldest Marches are followed by a normal to warm April. Interestingly, the coldest Aprils often follow a rather mild March.

So here's to hoping for a nice warmup in April.


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

  • Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (My Page) on
    Tue, Mar 18, 14 at 13:28

We're likely to see a cool spring due to the record ice coverage of the great lakes.

The frost depth and winter sun are really causing issues at this point. My casualties are unbelievably severe on zone 5 plants and now creeping on zone 4 plants where they don't have shade from the house or tree silhouettes. Its quite relevant that more mature, established trees have much more tolerance. 4 years of establishment meant nothing apparently.

I guess its a year of rebuilding!


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Wonder what a "cool spring" entails. I bought me a mini-greenhouse to put IN my 8X6 greenhouse. For veggie and flower seeds. Not much help for my trees though. I thought I saw a damaged new sprout on my biggest live oak, but it may be from last summer. A late sprout that was TOO late. I am going to try some seeds from Sheffeild's seeds, of Quercus Fusiformis var. Virginiana. I already sowed 2 of them. I know I had a "true" winter for my yard.


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  • Posted by jqpublic 7b/8a Wake County NC (My Page) on
    Wed, Mar 19, 14 at 1:00

Bradford Pears are heavy with buds/blooms and just beginning to open. It's 3/18 and we just had a freezing rain storm. I secretly was hoping this would be too much for them and they'd succumb. Wishful thinking I guess.


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

Allergy season is in full swing. Spring is here :-( :-l :-) ;-) Like JQ, our Callery pears are getting very close to full bloom in town. Forsythia is a little behind though. Redbud look to be flowering by this weekend with a couple 70* days tomorrow and Friday.

At the house cedrus deodara, prunus, malus, salix, aesculus, and heptacodium all have leaves. Bald cypress has open pollen cones. A late hard freeze will be devastating at the rate things are waking up down here.

Pic is a magnolia stellata 'Royal Star'

This post was edited by j0nd03 on Wed, Mar 19, 14 at 11:05


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

Whaas=

How close are you to the lake? What percentage of new trees (or even old trees) would you say are goners?

I'm over by La Crosse and I haven't seen too much damage yet, but its way too early to tell. I know rabbits got my Hemlocks good...like killed them.


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

Looks like spring is starting in the South-Central part of the country, hopefully spreading eastward and northward!

It's hard to asseess overall damage yet here. Nothing is really waking up, except Acer saccharinum and rubrum, and witchhazel. Even the forsythias and daffodils are still mostly not yet blooming. I even have some Dutch crocuses (in mostly shade until the sun angle is a bit higher) not blooming yet.

The Cedrus deodaras around here are a bit yellowish at the tips but appear alive. Some other conifers also have some slight yellowing or browning. Especially Pinus and Cryptomeria. A little Acer palmatum I have does appear to have a bit of tip dieback, but it had a very late flush last summer (Aug/Sept) that didn't even defoliate until they were frozen off, so that was to be expected.

Pyrus calleryana does show bud swell, and appears to have not been damaged from our several deep freezes this month.

My wife's rosemary, however, is toast.


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

hair,
There seems to be a rather thin line in our region of "where" spring has arrived. John is not so far away, but is well ahead of me. I even had snow on Sunday. We have crocus still coming up, with the later flowering the purple and white ones are just beginning to flower. SOME daffodils in a few places, but have seen no forsythia yet. Redbud buds are pushing, but still have a while to go before flowering. But our Roses, Crabapple, and PJM Rhodo's which are normally early, are just beginning to push buds. Its all rather inconsistent for me locally.

Personally, if it helps to avoid the late freeze of death, I can wait a couple weeks longer.


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

Not that this map will make any of you suffering loses feel any better, but click on the link below. While much of North America has suffered from cold the last few months, that has not been the case for most of the rest of the world.

Arktrees

Here is a link that might be useful: How has winter been?


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RE: Having a "true" winter in your zone

  • Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (My Page) on
    Wed, Mar 19, 14 at 21:44

Hey Frank, I'll start a different post with pics in a few weeks. Some are completely game over like a Acer truncatum and Japanese Black Pine. No real shockers there.

Picea orientalis, Acer griseum, Fagus sylvatica, Dawn redwood are a few that have the dull green cambium. You'll see both a zone 4 and 5 rating on these plants. A bit surprised on these. Ages range from 5 to 10 years old and 1 to 4 years in the ground.

I'm not seeing damage on the typical plants grown around here like a Thuja, Red maple, Aesculus, White Spruce, Freeman Maple etc.


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