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| Good morning! I'm looking for tree suggestions for the San Antonio area-8b. I've got a large lot that I'm trying to fill up with trees, and around 20 acres behind my residential lot that are available. I live in a creek bottom with good soil, and I've been running drip irrigation to everything I've planted. So far I've put in 2 montezuma cypresses, 1 bald cypress, a loquat, a shantung maple, arizona cypress (Blue Pyramid), deodar cedar, italian stone pine, 2 pecan seedlings, a weeping yaupon, a vitex, 5 peaches, 2 american persimmons, 2 japanese persimmons, 3 figs, 2 pears, grapes, and a pomegranate. The place has mature pecans, vitex, crape myrtels, pines, 2 small bur oaks, a mountain laurel, and a shumard oak. I'm really looking for suggestions for anything not listed, even rare or hard to find trees. I'm putting in a bigtooth maple, a monterey oak, a caddo maple (if I can find one), and a cedar elm. I've considered a southern magnolia, but everyone I talk to warns against them for this area...may try one anyways. Any suggestions would be welcome! |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by gardener365 IL 5/6 (My Page) on Fri, Feb 3, 12 at 10:21
| Check out the link. If your climate is at all comparable, this could be a great resource. Dax |
Here is a link that might be useful: Conifers Suitable for SE Texas
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| Great site, thanks for sharing! |
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- Posted by mackel_in_dfw 8a (My Page) on Fri, Feb 3, 12 at 12:47
| Lacey Oak, Sabal Palm, Texas Mountain Laurel, Dawn Redwood, Eve's Necklace, Shantung Maple, Cedar Elm, Incense Cedar... |
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| I forgot to mention that I have planted a shantung maple! I love cedar elms, but the creek across from my house is lined with them, so I don't feel the need to plant more. I never considered Eve's Necklace or Lacey Oak, both look great and will probably be planted. Will Dawn Redwood tolerate the extreme heat we have here? |
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| Just a quick comment. Are you open to buying the caddo maple online? If so soonerplantfarm.com has a few left. Their shipping fees are high, though. I have bought a few things from them and they all arrived very healthy with good root systems. John |
Here is a link that might be useful: Caddo maple
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- Posted by mackel_in_dfw 8a (My Page) on Fri, Feb 3, 12 at 14:45
| Just dooooooooo it, Yakin. Are you afraid? Don't be afraid- Hey, I'm Mackel in DFW, your geographical comrade- I want to see the whole list completed with photos by next year, you owe it to god, texas, yourself, the dog, and now, Mackel! Best wishes.
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| Thanks for the website link j0nd03, looks like they still have a couple left. Mackel, I will, and I will most definitely post pics next year. |
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- Posted by greenthumbzdude (My Page) on Fri, Feb 3, 12 at 17:20
| avocado,kiwi,olives,bananas, and feijoas can survive zone 8 |
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| There are some Mexican sycamores and Loquat oaks(Quercus rysophylla) that do real well in San Antonio. Sierra Red Oak (Quercus canbyi). Acacias and Mesquites if your into that type of thing. Lots of cool stuff. IMO, It gets too hot for Dawn Redwood in TX. |
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| I'm planning on putting in 3 olives and a couple of avacado. Never even thought of kiwi, and I don't know what feijoas are. Thanks for the suggestions. I've already got a nice sycamore, some huge mesquites, large texas persimmon. Never considered a Sierra Red Oak...thanks! |
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| Quercus Fusiformis ( Texas live oak) |
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- Posted by mackel_in_dfw 8a (My Page) on Fri, Feb 3, 12 at 23:11
| Dricha, that was amazing. Wow, just wow. |
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- Posted by mackel_in_dfw 8a (My Page) on Sat, Feb 4, 12 at 1:10
| There are Dawn Redwoods growing all over Texas, Dricha. Dude, you need to put that bong down. |
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- Posted by mackel_in_dfw 8a (My Page) on Sat, Feb 4, 12 at 8:34
| "An ancient tree but has lasted and is very durable and should be planted more in Texas. It is considered a living fossil similar to the ginkgo tree.The cypress redwoods on page 198 of Howard Garrett's Texas Trees are in a back yard in Highland Park (Dallas). I took that shot over 10 years ago so you can imagine how big they are now. There are other huge specimens in north Dallas that are doing well. In fact, they are growing in black and white soils and have none of the yellowing, browning and chlorosis they commonly spoil the late summer look of certain bald cypress. Plant away - you will love them." |
Here is a link that might be useful: Huge Dawn Redwoods in Texas, Photos
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- Posted by mackel_in_dfw (My Page) on Sat, Feb 4, 12 at 9:56
| "Black and white Soils"- alkaline, same as San Antonio. Dallas is slightly hotter on average than San Antonio. The Dawn Redwood is highly adaptable here and drought tolerant. In my neighborhood in DFW they are all over and superior in every way to the bald cypress. Faster growth, less stress, beautiful. They easily put on three feet of growth with only 30 inches of rain. Dr. Icha, Dr. Mackel would like you to know that the mexican sycamore is weak limbed and should not be planted anywhere near a house. The acacia is a desert weed and unattractive, the mesquite is an invasive and allelopathic pest. The canby oak, you got that one right and one out of five ain't bad, though there are native red oaks all over texas and a local source should always be given first priority when planting one. Dr. Mackel had a little bit too much moonshine last night when he posted the bong comment, Dr. Icha. The list Dr. Mackel compiled for Dr. Yakin is based upon field experience, not google. All are very drought tolerant, handle alkaline soil perfectly, and are beautiful, must haves for San Antonio. |
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| mackel, Mesquite is not invasive in Texas, It is a native and does not meet the definition of invasive as the term is meant to be used. Cheers: |
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- Posted by mackel_in_dfw 8a (My Page) on Sat, Feb 4, 12 at 11:01
| Mesquite is a native, but has become an invasive pest accross Texas due to man's suppression of wildfire. Same with the eastern red cedar and for the same reasons. Mesquite, with the deepest roots of all trees on earth, pulls an enormous amount of water out of the aquifers now, and kills off rare microclimate species present for millenia. Doobie doobie doobie, do. Thanks for the critique, Ark, I'm getting hit on all sides. Can't take it no more. Heading out to the bamboo grove for some solace. I love your neck of the woods, as well. |
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| I don't disagree that there are problems related to suppression of wildfires, and the effects it's having on native plant communities. However that does not qualify as "invasive" as the term is meant to be applied. What you are speaking of is more ecological succession due to repression of fire. Those native species that are becoming dominate are not invasive, they are taking their place as the most competitive when communities are no longer subject to all the forces that had always been subject to before. Mackel, PLEASE don't see my replies as an attack, they are not. I'm simply trying to make sure that people understand what is actually happening. I'm not critiquing, more educating. When terms are used incorrectly, a great deal of extra confusion often takes place. Also, thank you for the compliment on my area. I do love it here. Too much deforestation taking place, but for now, it's still pretty great. Cheers: |
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- Posted by mackel_in_dfw 8a (My Page) on Sat, Feb 4, 12 at 12:08
| Back in from the grove. Dr. Ark, mesquite is on the Texas list of invasive species. It has largely been introduced here, in places where it shouldn't be, during the 1800's off of cattle cars. Mesquite should never be planted by anybody. It is a plague on Texas biodiversity. Please, don't doubt Dr. Mackel. Dr. Mackel is nursing a headache right now. Mesquite, in fact, is considered one of the hundred most invasive species in the world, and the most damaging plant here in Texas by a thousand fold. Nothing even comes close. Google can be your friend, Dr. Ark, or you can also trust Dr. Mackel. Dr. Mackel was raised by Germans, and takes pride in being accurate, studied, and humorous... Dr. Mackel is having a hard time this morning, though, but is joyful for the interest expressed in Texas ecology, beware however of cursed Mississippi moonshine and kudzu tea mix. |
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| Should GW open a new forum called Invasive Species Discussions? I think tree forum should not be distracted or even devoted to this off topic. |
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| Comes under "recommendations for selections". I'm more concerned about all the unattributed photos long coming from a certain quarter. If we're going to get into what is propuh hyah, let's go there first. Of course, if you look at the rules, nobody here is supposed to get into it except the site staff. |
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- Posted by mackel_in_dfw 8a (My Page) on Sat, Feb 4, 12 at 12:47
| Ahh, Dr. S. The topic here is what to plant in San Antonio. I suppose, as a corollary, that would include what not to plant in San Antonio. In your neck of the woods, mesquite wouldn't stand a chance of becoming invasive. You are a very mysterious human being, Dr. S., though Dr. Mackel does possess a masterful comprehension of the English language, due to strict German upbringing, I can't always follow but enjoy hearing the far out perspective of most any poster who loves trees. |
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- Posted by mackel_in_dfw (My Page) on Sat, Feb 4, 12 at 14:23
| Did I mention the Gingko Tree likes deep soils and San Antonio? That is one heck of a tree over time, one of the most spectacular trees in the world. And essentially extinct in nature. I thank Dr. Icha, Dr. Ark, Dr. S and others. Now it's up to Dr. Yakin to get on it. One can start planting today until early spring in San Antonio. Looking forward to those pics!
Mackel in DFW |
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- Posted by lou_midlothian_tx z8 DFW Tx (My Page) on Sun, Feb 5, 12 at 9:58
| Yakin, You sure have a long list of trees. Let's see what else is not mention.... What about that Mexican Sugar Maple (Acer skutchii). http://sfagardens.sfasu.edu/ You probably will have to go to their plant sale (April 12, 2012) to get it or contact them about getting one. Maybe Dogwood if they are available. I was given several by them to try out. They said they may be the most heat and alkaline drought dogwood. 'Fire Dragon' shantung maple for red fall color if your's a regular one with yellow fall color. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Acer skutchii
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- Posted by lou_midlothian_tx z8 DFW Tx (My Page) on Sun, Feb 5, 12 at 10:14
| Mackel, If Dawn redwood is so awesome, why is China growing Montezuma-Pond-Bald cypress hybrids by the millions? We don't even do that breeding here in USA... |
Here is a link that might be useful: Taxodium hybrids
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- Posted by mackel_in_dfw 8a (My Page) on Sun, Feb 5, 12 at 12:49
| I mentioned SFA University in another thread ("BC vs. Dawn Redwood") and their tests on hybrids, Dr. Lou, and agree that hybrids can make a superior tree over both of it's parents. The Chinese understand the problem with monocultures. They are on a massive tree planting mission, and the Dawn Redwood has a limited gene pool, having been discovered in an isolated region during the 1940's. Our native bc has a deep gene pool, but is not suited as well to alkaline soil and drought, so the chinese were looking for the best of the montezuma bc, which is alkaline and drought tolerant, combined with cold and chinese pest tolerance. Here's three more trees for San Antonio, Dr. Yankin- Anacucia, wild olive, and witchhazel. Dr. Yankin, you sure have your work cut out for you. Most important is to follow proper tree planting technique (visible root flare, wide unamended shallow hole). |
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- Posted by lou_midlothian_tx z8 DFW Tx (My Page) on Sun, Feb 5, 12 at 15:23
| Mackel, BCs from central Texas do just fine in alkaline and also drought tolerant. There are huge BCs at Krause spring northwest of Austin. Also along Guadalupe River lined by BCs growing in limestone bedrock. MC is known for its fast growth and also longer growing period, 4-6 weeks longer than BC. I have all hybrids with me. :) |
Here is a link that might be useful: Krause BC
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| How about some palms? Some hardy ones in these parts include Windmill, Pindo,European Fan, Texas Sabal, Canary Island Date and California Fan. |
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| yakin, you didn't mention any type of theme. Native type stuff is generally what's recommended for large plantings. A few items : Eastern Red Cedar will grow well in the San Antonio area. Shumard Red Oak or Texas Red Oak should have red fall leaf color. Texas Ash is reputed to be the best ash for Tx with the best color. Womack Nursery in DeLeon, Tx had them a month ago (mail order place - bare-root). Mexican Plum, Texas Redbud, Desert Willow are small flowering native trees. Texas Persimmon is similar to Crepe Myrtle in size. |
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- Posted by mackel_in_dfw 8a (My Page) on Sun, Feb 5, 12 at 22:38
| Lou, several times I floated down the river in central texas and stopped at each bc to have a toast. I'm with you. |
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| Thanks again all...I've really appreciated all the suggestions. I planted a Bigtooth Maple from Love Creek Nursery saturday morning, and plan on ordering a 'John Pair' Caddo Maple to go along with it and my Shantung. I already have several Texas Ash growing along my fence rows, and several acres of natural growing Texas Perimmons mixed with Mesquite, Shin Oak, Live Oak, Cedar Elm, and Hackberry. I definitely plan on adding another Shumard Oak in the future. I love the look of the Lacey Oaks, and plan on adding one or more of them in the future. Mexican Plums are another that I intend to add in the coming weeks. Regarding theme...I really don't have one. I want more trees and less lawn, and I'd like a large variety of trees. I have planted 2 MC and 1 BC, but I suspect they are all seedlings. In retrospect, I wish I had put in at least one hybrid. I may add a Nanjing Beauty to one of two high density plantings I'm planning...perhaps with a variety of different oaks, Cedar Elm, and possibly a Magnolia or two. I'm undecided on the Ginko. I'll post pictures in the future! |
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- Posted by quercus_macrocarpa 5b (My Page) on Wed, Feb 29, 12 at 22:11
| Bur Oaks and Chinkapin Oaks. |
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| Yakin, If you want some Nanjing Beauty I have plenty. I rooted 50+ this past year. I also have some Loquat oak, Canby oak, Mexican White Oak, and Dawn Redwoods. |
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| Mackel, I can't believe I've overlooked this exciting thread for so long. I missed Arktrees' well written explanations and the chance to agree with him, wholeheartedly, at the time. But now that I'm here (and hopefully will remember to check back), what list of invasives have you seen native mesquite on? I'm wondering if it was a typo or just the result of work by someone who didn't understand what invasives were all about. Brandon |
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| Rare Find Nursery has differing magnolia clones not normally available elsewhere. Plant almost extinct-a Wollemia nobilis, a the auricacias like the Chilean Monkey Puzzle, look at the 'relict' trees and ferns and cycads! Fruit trees-my source Raintree, Miller, Antiquity Why not try some of the "real' antiques now endangered like woll |
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| On a side note the Dallas Morning News ran a article on using Mesquite trees for landscaping on Feb. 9. in the Arts and Life section. I suggested Mesquite and Acacia trees because they are native to the area and survive on natural rainfall. There is also a thornless Chilean Mesquite which I've seen at the Antique Rose Emporium. There are some planted at Trinity University there in SA too. One of the most beautiful Acacia trees I've seen was of hybrid of Acacia wrightii and Acacia berlandieri north of Carrizo Springs. I understand that many people that live along the I-35 corridor between San Antonio and Dallas think the cities need to look like Atlanta or somewhere east and want to reject what is right under their nose. It will just boil down to what you can or can't water. Especially on 20 acres. |
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| ltruett, I sent you an email. I'd definitely be interested in a loquat oak and a canby oak...do you think they'd do well in my alkaline soil? I put in a mexican white oak this past weekend, along with a mexican plum and a lacey oak. There are 2 bur oaks the folks we bought the place from had planted-they're about 10 feet tall, but about right under an overhead powerline. I hadn't thought about chinkapin oaks, I'll most likely put one of those in as well. Another tree I'm looking for but can't seem to locate is a Texas Hawthorne. Buggy01-The auricacias look interesting, but what I've read on them said they dislike dry heat. Regarding mesquite and acacia...I love mesquite in the right setting. We have some old growth mesquite that are gorgeous, but at my wife's ranch they are weed-like, I would guess due to historical overgrazing and lack of fires. They've choked out everything except the cactus. On our smaller property, they've taken over about 5 acres, and rather than fight them, I'm going to let them grow and try to contain them. I have no experience with acacia other than huisache, which is a beautiful tree but can take over as well. Same for retama/jerusalem thorn. I don't think water will be an issue...I run drip irrigation to all my trees and mulch heavily to stretch what water I do put out. So far this year I've planted shantung maple, shantung maple 'fire dragon', bald cypress, montezuma cypress (2), loquat, lacey oak, mexican white oak, bigtooth maple, arizona cypress 'blue pyramid', deodar cedar, kiowa pecan, pecan seedlings (2), mexican plum, peach 'john fanick' (2), fig 'alma' 'green ischia' 'celeste', pomegranate 'wonderful', orient pear, keifer pear, methley plum, hachiya persimmon, fuyu persimmon, italian stone pine, 3 different olive cultivars, and I ordered 2 'yates' american persimmons. Trees planted before we owned the property or that are naturally occurring are pecan, red oak (not sure if Texas or shumard), pines (loblolly I think), ash (texas/white I think, not sure), live oak, cedar elm, hackberry, texas persimmon, mesquite, chinaberry, spiny hackberry, and bur oak. |
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