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| The typical recommendations I've read indicate mulch should not be piled against the trunk of the tree, and indeed should not even be touching the trunk. What I have observed in nature is somewhat opposite of this. Specifically in north Louisiana, healthy pines typically have natural mulch mounds several inches thick right against the trunk tapering off with distance from the trunk. This natural mulch is the tree's own bark (flaking off from trunk) and its shed needles. Of course the build-up is over-time (years), but nonetheless it would seem prudent when planting trees to go ahead and extend at least an even layer of mulch all the way to the trunk (say 1/2-1" thick). Any thoughts on this? |
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| Any thoughts on this? Has anyone tried different methods and if so were there any quantifiable results? My wife and I train dozens of volunteers a year on how to plant trees on her projects. What we say is that think of what your skin looks like after you've had a wet band-aid on your finger for a few days. That is: mulch on a trunk in monoculture turf with predators excluded: superduper bad. Mulch on a trunk in regularly irrigated managed landscape: super bad. Natural flaking bark in healthy ecosystems at a much lower density/cm3 and with a much higher airflow: still harbors critters, but there are other critters out there that are hungry and turn the mulch looking for snackies. Our managed and industrial ecologies are much different than "natural" landscapes, which is why the mulch we choose on our landscapes is different than in nature. |
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- Posted by ken_adrian z5 (My Page) on Tue, Feb 5, 13 at 12:40
| i dont have any problem agreeing that what a tree puts there is OK ... but are you going to be buying tree specific mulch for all your specific trees??? on my sand .. read that: ultimate and total drainage ... i put mulch right up to the tree ... perhaps one inch back on tiny things ... [my beds get 4 to 6 inches of chipped wood.. settling to 3 to 4 ... but down to an inch near a specimen]... because the water retention of the soil is much more important.. that any potential bark damage ... especially on a recent transplant .... but when we are using the word 'volcano' ... we arent really discussing a little surface coverage of mulch ... scot.. you know well enough ALL THE VARIABLES.. to deal with it.. as do most of us .. dont get caught up in the extreme examples.. and confuse yourself ... the only problem is the peeps who figure that if one inch is good ... well 24 inches.. is 24 times as good.. so the default answer to those who think that way is.. leave it bare ... [they also think that if a handful of fert is good.. then the whole bag must be great.. lol] .... as i alluded.. soil type is probably the defining variable ... i recall one storm.. when i had spots of 6 inches of standing water in low spots .... it was gone .. SOAKED in within the hour ... and i swear you could have driven a cement truck over it the next day ... i would bet.. within 2 days.. it was august.. the mulch was basically dry ... [i do recall.. having to go out there.. and move piles of mulch that floated around ... back to where it came from ... lol] now turn that around on clay soil.. and perhaps that mulch could stay too moist.. on the trunk.. for months on end ... err on the side of less or none.. but i wouldnt lose sleep over a dusting at or near the trunk ... its the volcano thats the issue ... ken |
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- Posted by wisconsitom 4/5 WI (My Page) on Tue, Feb 5, 13 at 14:59
| ......plus, if you've planted your trees correctly, thin layer of mulch will be unable to reach the trunk. Only the root flare will be at ground level and that, being root system, can take a little mulch up and over it. Like Ken said, don't try and use an extreme example-mulch volcanos-to justify a much more moderate situation of a little itty-bitty mulch material up against the root flare area. +oM |
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| "Specifically in north Louisiana, healthy pines typically have natural mulch mounds several inches thick right against the trunk tapering off with distance from the trunk. This natural mulch is the tree's own bark (flaking off from trunk) and its shed needles. Of course the build-up is over-time (years), but nonetheless it would seem prudent when planting trees to go ahead and extend at least an even layer of mulch all the way to the trunk (say 1/2-1" thick). A thin mulch layer like this shouldn't harm the tree or prevent it from breathing, and should help it as far as soil temperature, moisture retention, etc." Some assumptions here: 1.) That commercially applied mulch functions just as a natural mix of pine straw with some bark in it. 2.) That mulch piled in the short term functions for the tree as does mulch that built up over years. 3.) That conditions one type of tree (pine, perhaps one or a few species, in one type of soil in one area of the country) are advantageous for all trees everywhere. Not trying to distort your post, just point out some of the unproven potential failure points in the theory. It would be interesting to know how pine needle mulch raked up in a forest would compare to shredded bark mulch purchased at a hardware store or Wa-mart, for common landscape trees like oak & maple. Richard. |
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- Posted by salicaceae z8b FL (My Page) on Wed, Feb 6, 13 at 9:29
| Mulch on the trunk doesn't cause healthy trunks to rot. It can lead to development of stem girdling roots, however. It is a misconception that the mulch creates wet conditions and stems rot or get diseased because of it. I have never seen any documented proof to support this claim and would welcome any that can be provided. |
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- Posted by fairfield8619 Zone 8 N LA (My Page) on Wed, Feb 6, 13 at 17:01
This post was edited by fairfield8619 on Wed, Feb 6, 13 at 17:03
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| I could be wrong here, but I don't think you can compare young tree bark (maple for example) and 40 year old pine tree bark WRT their tolerance to be buried in mulch at the trunk. By the time those pines accumulate that much detritus around the trunk, their bark is old, hard, and thick whereas a 2-5 year old sapling probably wouldn't tolerate have wetness constantly around its young bark as well. I have seen this many times with trees buried too deep in bnb/potting soil and then get huge lesions when the tissue is exposed to the elements after planting the root flare at ground level. Just my thoughts. Probably off... John |
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| Mulch on the trunk doesn't cause healthy trunks to rot. It can lead to development of stem girdling roots, however. It is a misconception that the mulch creates wet conditions and stems rot or get diseased because of it. I have never seen any documented proof to support this claim and would welcome any that can be provided.
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- Posted by salicaceae z8b FL (My Page) on Wed, Feb 6, 13 at 21:13
| WXDANO, Maybe I should clarify. I want to see scientific evidence. In other words, a scientific study published in a peer review article with specific diseases studied. Anyone can put out extension articles stating things that aren't scientifically valid. These articles make the same general assertions as what has been said on here, no actual data to support the claims. By the way, I have a PhD in forest pathology and work as a professor at a major University, so I've given this serious thought with years of experience. I don't at all believe too much mulch is harmless, I just have different reasons. |
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| Well it sounds like you need to write up a grant proposal for your grad students working on on their PHDs ;) |
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| Maybe I should clarify. I want to see scientific evidence. I checked my 2nd Ed. of Harris, Clark and Metheney, but it isn't specifically mentioned. However, I used to work with Dick Harris and he said don't do it. That's good enough for me and my wife (who studied under him as well). I might know an old-timer who doesn't have a problem with a mulch volcano, but I can't name one. |
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- Posted by fairfield8619 Zone 8 N LA (My Page) on Thu, Feb 7, 13 at 1:07
| One observation: even after several days of heavy rain the mounds are bone dry within. They repel the water. The only critters are great numbers of black ants. |
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| You are referring to the pine mulch mounds, correct fairfield? Bark mulch stays wet for a very, very long time without high temperatures and sunny days. Bark mulch � pine needle mulch Edit: that symbol was supposed to be a "does not equal" symbol |
This post was edited by j0nd03 on Thu, Feb 7, 13 at 10:54
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| Scott, I see mulch piled high against trees all the time in the medians, done by the city's hired hands. It drives me nuts because I've heard that you shouldn't do that, but the trees look fine, and I've been observing this for years. |
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- Posted by fairfield8619 Zone 8 N LA (My Page) on Thu, Feb 7, 13 at 10:25
| j0nd03, I am refering to the mound you see in the pic I posted. It seems to be a mix of bark and needles. It stays very dry. |
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- Posted by alabamatreehugger 8a/8b south Alabama (My Page) on Thu, Feb 7, 13 at 10:53
| Scotjute, are you speaking of yard pines, or forest pines? Most pines are fire adapted, so they really don't need any straw around their trunks. In fact, too much straw piled around the trunk may hold in too much heat and damage the tree. Of course, for a yard tree it's an entirely different situation. |
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| Fairfield, I used incorrect terminology. I meant shredded mulch including shredded bark mulch when I was describing bark mulch and its water retention. Shredded mulch, at least all the different types I have used, certainly retains water much better than pine straw with a little pine bark mixed in. Our open grown pines also mound up like that here, as do junipers and some other species with open grown specimens. I would also think a slow accumulation of material next to the trunk is not as traumatic to the trunk as a sudden pile of mulch inches thick placed in the area. Do open grown trees or trees that are mowed around show this heaving near the trunk more than forest trees? It would make sense that lawnmowers could disturb this process a foot or two away from the trunk by further shredding the bark/needles into very fine bits while also shooting the pieces into the air and away from the spot they fell. John Edit: To tie in the last paragraph with the point I was trying to make. I have dug up several saplings in the understory of the woods behind my house. I surprisingly found in all cases that the actual root flare was several inches below the top of the decaying matter layer on top of the soil. I infer that the seeds germinated at a certain level and then were buried with many years of leaves/stick/bark that take time to decay. This is a very porous layer like what you describe in your picture and can be compressed to an inch or so if it is wet and pressure (from my foot) is applied. So, in a forest that mounding up of pine needles and bark would extend beyond a couple of feet actually continuing out to the forest margin. |
This post was edited by j0nd03 on Thu, Feb 7, 13 at 11:20
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| Great topic and nice civil discussion. For 30 years I have driven through a subdivision where every spring the maintenance people pile mulch (hardwood) probably 10 to 12 inches up on the trunk. It always makes me cringe. However, the trees always look great and I've never noticed any problems.....? Jay |
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| fairfield's pictures were exactly what I was talking about. A mound of bark and pine straw 3-6" thick against the trunk of large pines. Foresters gage the health of pines (whether its growing or not) by size of the mound. Remember you are talking about bark falling from 60-90' of trunk, if the trunk is expanding - bark is flaking off. Note that this occurs on large trees, not ones small enough to be transplanted. Don't think I have seen any from 3-4" diameter on down with mounds of mulch like this against them in the woods. But I do see the light layers of mulch at trunks of these smaller size trees, prompting me to question the wisdom of pulling the mulch away from the trunk. My assertion here is that if you have a 1/2 - 1 1/2" layer of mulch perhaps one should go ahead and place it agains the trunk. That seems to match what I'm observing in nature. That shouldn't be so thick as to smother the tree, etc. And it would help cool root system at trunk (some shading from direct sun) and maintain moisture slightly better. |
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