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jimmyjam_gw

Mystery Maple

jimmyjam
14 years ago

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone out there has ever come across a situation like this. I own a wooded acre on which I live. There are many species, including Red, White, Black, Bur Oak, Shagbark and Pignut Hickory, Basswood, Ironwood, American Elm, White Ash, Sugar, Red, and Silver Maple. The thing is, there is this one tree, which is definitely a Maple, has totally unique leaves. I am quite positive it is not a Silver or a Red. I believe it is a mutated Sugar.

Some history: These trees have been growing here for some time now. Our lot was part of a 20 acre wooded parcel. From what I can tell, these woods have stood this way for at least 100 years. The tree in question is growing amongst all the others. The only thing that gave it away was the strange looking leaves that would fall onto my front lawn.

I have posted pics of these leave, but yet to have a positive ID.

I what I want to know is if this tree is truly a mutation. I plan to graft it onto some Sugar Maple stock and see if this trait can be duplicated.

Here is a link to the pic.

Comments (22)

  • jimmyjam
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    I thought I posted the link to the pic, but had some trouble. I'll try it again.

    http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y288/jimmath/leavename-1.jpg

    Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:330385}}

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    14 years ago

    liquidamber???

    link below

    the key would be a turpentine scent when crushed ...

    total stab in the dark

    ken

    Here is a link that might be useful: link

  • iforgotitsonevermind
    14 years ago

    I agree withthat it looks like a sweetgum leaf

  • hortster
    14 years ago

    Sweetgum would easily be evidenced by the fruiting balls that it so prolifically drops. If not sweetgum you might also google Acer campbellii and Acer truncatum (similar foliages).
    hortster

  • lou_spicewood_tx
    14 years ago

    It looks more like a maple leaf than sweetgum leaf. While it does look like Shantung maple (Acer truncatum), I find it hard to believe that it can be grown in the wild like that esp for old forested area so scratch that out. Same for Acer campbelli. I'd be inclined to believe that it's probably sugar maple that happens to have a nice leaf shape.

  • pineresin
    14 years ago

    Looks quite like Acer heldreichii from the Balkans, though that's decidedly unlikely in N America. Perhaps more likely a Silver Maple mutation (that's assuming it is a maple and the OP knows not to mistake Sweetgum for a maple!).

    Resin

  • Iris GW
    14 years ago

    Where are you located?

  • jimmyjam
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Thanks for all the replys. I am located in mid Michigan. I believe that puts me too far north for it to be a Sweetgum? Also, from what I read about the Sweetgum, it says the leaves are alternate? This trees leaves are opposite like the maples. I hope you can see this in the next photo.

    Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:330386}}

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    14 years ago

    i went to a bed and breakfast at a lumber barons mansion in bay city ... which is about as mid MI as you can get ... north anyway ... lol

    and some part of that house was sweetgum ...

    i think your presumption in that regard might be faulty ....

    though that is irrelevant to your ID request ...

    as i said.. i was stabbing in the dark ...

    ken

  • jimmyjam
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Ken, I really appreciate your opinion of the Sweetgum.
    It got me thinking on a whole new path. It's how I learn. I was able to rule it out based on the way the leaves are arranged, not how far north I am. Keep'm coming. I like all the ideas from all of you. I guess I'm secretly hoping no one IDs this because that would make it special. And who knows, this could maybe help fund my retirement ;)

  • Iris GW
    14 years ago

    Absolutely the leaf arrangement rules out sweetgum - that was important to notice, jimmyjam.

    I don't know what you have, but it certainly looks to be some type of maple. Are all the leaves on the ground consistent with that look? When identifying oaks, I know the recommendation is to look at a variety of leaves from the tree as they can vary quite a bit.

  • denninmi
    14 years ago

    Whatever it is, it's interesting.

    It could be a hybrid between the various types of maples in your woodlot. I and my neighbors on one side have several Silver maples, and the seeds fall into my garden most years due to the prevailing winds. Most of them that germinate look like basic silver maples, but a few of them, from time to time, appear to me to be naturally occurring hybrids between the silver maples and a big old red maple in a swamp behind the neighbor's house. The seed parent is DEFINITELY the silver maples, since the red maple is much to far away to drop seeds in my garden.

    Leaf form tends to vary and is intermediate between the two parents, but is generally closer to the red maple parent. Bark looks like the red. Habit and growth rate are like the silver maple, ie, very fast growers. Fall color on the half dozen or so I've kept or given to relatives has been excellent, nice red, orange, and yellow shades mixed. Blossoms are red similar to red maple.

    So, I would suggest it's quite possible you have some type of naturally occurring hybrid as well.

  • Embothrium
    14 years ago

    Sugar maple with atypical leaf outline.

  • Embothrium
    14 years ago

    Sugar maple with atypical leaf outline.

  • jimmyjam
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Thanks, everyone. To answer esh ga: Yes, every leave on the tree looks like this, year after year.

  • sam_md
    14 years ago

    Observe your tree over the next few months. If the seed is shed in the Spring it has A. rubrum or A. saccharinum blood.
    I think that it's more likely that the seed will be shed in the Fall which means that you have a variation of A. saccharum. 'Sweet Shadows' is one among many such variations, kind of neat but really more for the collector, not a "product line" item.

  • Embothrium
    14 years ago

    Acer saccharum 'Sweet Shadow' PP 2139 is one of the most lovely shade trees and is sometimes seen in commercial landscapes and similar settings in my area. It produces much more frequently cut, elegant leaves than the variant being asked about here. It's from Oregon. Another cutleaf variant is A. saccharum 'Brocade', this was found in NY and propagated in 1980. This one has not seen much usage. For a third introduction of this type...

    Here is a link that might be useful: Acer saccharum âFidcrezamâ

  • calliope
    14 years ago

    Maples are hussies. I'd wager it's more likely a cross between two more common maples, than a mutation. It's interesting and I like it.

    I don't know how many different maples I've dragged home over the years from sales at a nearby arboretum. But most of them are not in cultivation, at least in this country. I have a few 'unidentifiable' ones I've dug up as volunteers. One of these days when I am dead and gone, somebody is gonna wonder the same thing when they see all these maple trees and they shouldn't outta be here either. LOL.

    When you get a look at the samaras, that should definately help.

  • Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)
    14 years ago

    Late to the game, looks like a hybrid Acer to me as well and maples are ID'd by the samaras when in doubt.

    Dan

  • orjen
    10 years ago

    Looked up your images and it is positively Acer heldreichii ssp. heldreichii Orphanides ex Boissier. Check also the buds, they have to be copper coloured (never green). It's distinguished to Acer pseudoplatanus also by its flowers. With A. heldreichii they are errect, with A. pseudoplatanus they hang down.
    The typical shape of the leafs is with A. heldreichii always likes yours, but some variation might occur and in Bulgaria you have examples with only three leaf fingers (ssp. bulgarica) and in Bosnia and Montenegro you have some specimens with overlapping leaf fingers. The important point: your maple is not a hybrid, it's a very hardy high mountain species and in ist native environment it is the hardest decidous tree at the upper timberline. It's very valued for ist pricy timber as the highest grade violins are usualy made from Balkan maple timber (flamed maple, in German Riegelahornholz).

    Here is a link that might be useful: wikipedia

  • salicaceae
    10 years ago

    Looks like A. saccharum to me. Their leaves can be variable.

  • brandon7 TN_zone7
    10 years ago

    I'm not sure what it is, but I definitely disagree with Orjen's certainty, and even question if it's possibly what he suggests.