The differentiating of a specific 'London' cultivar was proposed by Santamour and McCardle:

"We have chosen to recognize this well-known
clone as a cultivar, since it has been widely
grown in Britain and, indeed, may have served
as the basis for the popularity of the genus
Platanus throughout the West. Doubtful as to
whether any authentic trees of this cultivar can
now be identified in North America"

bboy:

Fascinating article. There are at least a few new cultivars developed since this article was written (1986). The Morton Arboretum, in view of the fact that ash trees are no longer a viable street tree in the Chicago area (the emerald ash borer), has developed some new cultivars resistant to both the anthracnose and the frost cracking that sometimes happens in their climate.

These are 'Morton Thornhill', 'Morton Euclid" and 'Morton Circle'. These have their own trade names: 'Morton Euclid' is sold as "Ovation," and 'Morton Circle' as "Exclamation." I am not sure about any trade name for 'Morton Thornhill'.

Since they have done so much work with these hybrids, I will call and see if someone there can help me locate these and/or some of the other cultivars.

--Spruce

So when we call P. x acerifolia a london planetree, that is a misnomer? Or what we have in this country, the hybrid planetrees are not london planes?

If you look at the Santamour & McCardle checklist they say what they propose calling P. x acerifolia 'London' is probably present here but may be not be identifiable. Referring to this now as P. x hispanica 'London' (and others as P. x hispanica or P. x hispanica [insert other cultivar name]), written out or spoken in that fashion would serve to make it clear the 'London' cultivar was being talked about instead of any and all London planetrees.

London planetree = P. x hispanica (P. x acerifolia)

The 'London' cultivar = P. x hispanica 'London'

A somewhat silly way to put it would be 'London' London planetree. Calling them hybrid planetrees would certainly avoid such a combination.

The "-tree" apellation isn't necessary; just London Plane.

Resin

Bloodgood has been and continues to be the cultivar most commonly grown by wholesalers in this region. Observing rows of trees labeled Bloodgood in growers fields Ive found that it is not unusual to find stray trees that are obviously genetically distinct, having whiter bark, or slightly different leaf shape or growth form. I assume these "rogue" trees were produced alongside genuine Bloodgood trees at their original propagating facility, but Im not sure exactly how that could happen if they were all vegetatively propagated from the same parent trees.

Here in Michigan Bloodgood is susceptible to frost-cracking as well as canker stain disease. The 3 Morton cultivars (Exclamation, Ovation, Encore = Morton Thornhill) sound very promising and should prove superior to Bloodgood for adaptability to the Great Lakes region, but Ive had no experience with them myself. The 3 are currently hard to find (outside the western Great Lakes area), but will become more widely available in the future.

Ive planted the cultivar Metzam ("Metroshade", introduced by Lake County Nursery), and based on my observations so far, it appears to be faster growing and more resistant to frost crack and canker stain than Bloodgood, but it has been somewhat susceptible to anthracnose. Its leaves are a bit larger and more sycamore-like than the typical hybrids. From what Ive seen, only a few nurseries are growing it.

I believe Starhill Forest Arboretum has begun to produce a new variety with smoother, whiter bark that they are calling "Old Bones" (see link).

Looks like it's based on a specimen in a row in an unlabeled planting in a park, cemetary or similar location. Without seeing the leaves etc. I notice the trunks of the others in the row are the same except for not having shed the old, dark bark as readily - making me wonder if the white one really is genetically distinct from the others. Are they really in fact all a clone that already has a cultivar name? Or a planting of two different cultivars, both of which were already named?

Hi Spruce:

I spent the weekend hunting but only found two sources: FF and Sooner Plant Farm.

Here is the info from Sooner Plant farm:

Platanus occidentalis 'American Sycamore Tree'
4-5 ft tall - 2 gallon Potted = (1.87 gallons / 7.09 liters) - * $29.95
http://www.soonerplantfarm.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=plants.plantDetail&plant_id=2

Platanus acerifolia 'Bloodgood London Planetree'
3-4 ft tall - 2 gallon Potted = (1.87 gallons / 7.09 liters) - * $29.95
http://www.soonerplantfarm.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=plants.plantDetail&plant_id=1125

I haven't ordered from Sooner but I think they have good reviews at Dave's Garden.

PaM

arbordave:

Wow--that 'Old Bones' is spectacular.

bboy--interesting question about its origin. It seems to me it may be possible--but perhaps unlikely--that the cutting that could have been the origin of this tree was a "sport" of some kind that just happened to pop up. Or, perhaps these trees, even though they look alike as far as the picture shows, were of seedling origin, and this thing just happened to have genes mix in a new way.

Anyway, I may just contact the arboretum there and see about the possibilities of getting one of these. Wow!!

--Spruce

Spruce:

I'm interested in London Planes. Will you keep us posted re: what you learn from the arboretum?

JLPN inc lists 3 different ones in their online catalog, Bloodgood, Columbia, and Metzam.

Pam, and anyone else who has been following my quest with interest:

I am giving up for now. JLPN is a wholesale producer of liners. They do not offer trees to buyers like me. Perhaps I could talk them into some kind of deal, but I am not ready to try that now.

I called about the new "Old Bones" cultivar. The arboretum has tried to make it commercially available, but those they gave cutting to to for propagation failed to follow through, wasting the material they were sent. I could get a cutting for my own use, but I don't have anyone ready to root it for me and don't want to undertake a search for someone to do that right now. I am beginning this year's round of planting, and have things to catch up with at my timberland.

I followed up on a couple of other leads unsuccessfully. What I will do next winter is contact a local nursery or two that usually orders some special stuff, give them my list, and see what they can find for me.

Pam: it is not especially hard to fine some kind of hybrid plane at local nurseries. You will probably get a 'Bloodgood,' but for all I know, that may be as good as any.

--Spruce

I ordered from JLPN for the first time, with shipment this spring. I'll see how that goes. I ordered just 3 different elms in multiples of 25.

This is that site I was telling you about. Unfortunately it appears to be down
http://www.the-tree.org.uk/BritishTrees/plane.htm

>Unfortunately it appears to be downSo, we should just nevermind then?

You can see it at web archive here; the links in it are clickable too.

Resin

That 'Old Bones' cultivar is amazing... However, the Bernheim Arboretum in Kentucky actually has the 'Suttneri' cultivar and its bark is directly comparable. AND, it has really cool variegated leaves, which give it a surreal effect with the bark. Definitely interesting. I recently contacted Bernheim to inquire about disease resistance.

The link says this about 'Suttneri'

'This is a relatively weak growing, white variegated form. Despite its weaknesses, it is still capable of growing to a large tree in time. Mature trees are rare, partly because anthracnose disease tends to kill off trees before they reach maturity.'

I am wandering into this convo rather late but I can't help commenting on the mention of California sycamores use in my state.

They have quite a different shape than London Plane and they are easy to spot. LP has a much more regular and upright shape. LP is used extensively here sometimes in the same planting with Calif sycamore.

With as common as they seem to be here, I had a devil of a time finding a London Plane. After much hunting I special ordered one from a local nursery. When I went to the big home improvement store to get stakes for it, what do I see over in their tree section? I had asked them about one last year and even gave them my info so they would call me when they got one in. Their comment to me did not give me much hope: "London Plane? Those get huge."

My answer: "That's why I want one."

And I am wandering into this wonderful conversation almost a whole year later. Spruceman, any new discoveries about this wonderful tree? Anybody? Hello out there.

arbordave, any recommendations? I'm the Pat that couldn't make up her mind about 2 maple trees. Now I have. I want a Plane. Help.

Pat Moore
SE Michigan

Pat:

Yes, I'm here. I have little to report. Last year I spent a lot of time searching. This year I have focused on other things.

I do have a couple of ideas/observtions/speculations. First, the regular American sycamore is a wonderful tree. In some areas they have more problems with anthracnose than others. If they seem to be doing well in your area, you might go with one of those.

Second: I bought two planetrees simply labelled as London Plane. But they are different--one has the "button balls" one third of the time in pairs, the rest of the time single. This may mean that it was a back cross with American Sycamore--mostly American sycamore, maybe. The bark color, however is typical of the hybrid. Later I bought another. This tree as far as I can see looks exactly like the first, except the button balls are half the time in pairs, half the time in threes--rarely single. So does this mean it has more Oriental plane in it?

Anyway, I will resume my search next year for specific hybrid cultivars. I suspect that both of mine are seedlings of unknown parentage.

Anyway, here in Winchester we have a lot of both the American sycamore and the hybrid plane. Both grow very well, with the American sycamore growing faster, and probably ultimately larger. The hybrids here are wonderful trees--very tough and resistant to breakage. If one is looking for a nice tree to produce good shade, and which doesn't need much care, such as pruning, it is ideal. Very nice shape and good branching structure. No fall color, however, but then I don't need fall color from every tree.

--Spruce

Spruce, thank you. After getting hooked on this thread about Planes, I did my own research and now fall color isn't necessary for me either. The Plane trunks are all I need. I'm going tomorrow to a local nursery to see a British hybrid. I'll ask about a Sycamore. There is one down the street that practically uproots an entire house because it was planted too close many years ago. I don't have many years left so I am looking for something fast-growing and all my Tulip Tree seedlings croaked during the winter this year. I see at least 3 Planes in my immediate future.
This thread and all the links were wonderful. Thank you for starting it. I will look for more from you in the future.

Pat(ricia)

"I'm going tomorrow to a local nursery to see a British hybrid" - Pat, what specific variety did this turn out to be?

See if you can find one of the newer disease-resistant varieties from Chicagoland Grows like Exclamation or Ovation - they are beginning to show up at some of the larger nurseries in our region. Gee Farms 2010 catalog lists Ovation in 6' whip size. (Note: the variety called "Encore" is apparently the same as Exclamation).

You should probably avoid straight species sycamore due to its high susceptibility to anthracnose.

Oh, be still my heart, arbordave. Those pictures are killing me. I found an Exclamation' on line at Advanced Tree Technology and also received their print catalog today. For $24 I can get one (or three) via UPS, Rootbag mix, 4 ft. Margolis Nursery in Ypsilanti has Planes for $195 (2-in circumf) to $400 and $150 to plant the 2-in. I cannot spend that kind of money right now, so I'm seriously considering the Advanced Tree Tech mailorder tree. Maybe 3. I need to check out other nurseries in my area first. I really do want one of the Mortons.
Thank you for your response, arbordave.
Pat

arbordave, I found an "American Sycamore Bloodgood" (sic) at my Lowe's in Ann Arbor this morning. It is about 15 feet tall and $44. I want it real bad but believe you said Bloodgoods did not do well in our Zone 5/6 for you. We get terribly humid in the summer as you may know. I would definitely put a fan on it during the worst humidity, even tho' my neighbors would crack up. The nursery I mentioned above said they did not know the name of their $400 +/- trees and the person on the phone was NOT about to go look, so I wouldn't go back there if my life depended on it. If you were 69 years old would you order the small Exclamation from Advanced Tree or buy the $44 Bloodgood at about 15 feet? Or both? Would you totally discourage me away from the Bloodgood? Help.
Pat

Sounds like a very reasonable price on the Bloodgood. Bloodgood is a hybrid (P. x acerifolia) of course, so Lowe's shouldn't label it as an "American Sycamore". If your planting location has relatively good soil and adequate moisture, the Bloodgood should perform OK. In my observations it appears to be more susceptible to frost cracking and cankerstain disease when planted in stressful locations (in poor or dry soil, or where there is limited rooting area). It will be somewhat susceptible to powdery mildew (this may turn out to be a bad year for mildew with all the moisture we've had recently).

Exclamation would still be my first choice, but it may be too hard to find in a larger size at a reasonable price.

I have poor dry soil and I have an 'unmarked' LP growing in it. I think it's Bloodgood. It's doing fine with regular deep soakings. It even survived a gopher attack. It responded by dropping a few leaves before going right back to growing.

My second LP is Columbia and it has grown two feet so far this season with no sign of slowing. I planted it a year ago from a 15 gallon and already it's large enough to provide morning shade to my picnic table. I put stakes in for it after I planted it and dawdled too long rounding up ties. It grew so fast it never needed staking.

The new leaves at the branch tips on both trees emerge fuzzy and orange gradually turning green as they expand in size. Very neat looking.

I am extremely happy with these trees.

Folks: I'm baaack!

Earlier I mentioned that I bought two sycamores that turned out to be the hybrid. One is about 6 years older than the other. They are obviously different because one produced balls in either pairs or singles--in roughly equal numbers.

The younger one produces balls in mostly pairs, but fairly often in threes, and maybe rarely singles. But the news is that this year for the first time the bark on the younger one exfoliated, or whatever the proper term is. And, voila! The bark after the shedding, is very, very white. The bark on the other after shedding is more of a greenish light tan.

Bboy, in an earliet post under this topic reported on a line of hybrid trees with each having different characteristics, apparently of seedling origin. Well, I am wondering about this very white-barked planetree I have now. Is it most probably a chance seedling that just happened to have the genetic components to produce this very white bark--or could it be a cultivar?

The two trees to my inexperienced eye, and maybe weak observational skills, look very much alike, except for the production of the seed balls in different numbers. That is distinctly different. But as for leaf shape, color, glossiness, etc., and bud form, twigs, etc., I can't see any diffrerences.

Well, do any of you have any ideas, suggestions, observations regarding what I might have here? I have guessed that the older one might be 'Bloodgood'. If that is right, what could the other be, looking so much like 'Bloodgood' in most characteristics, except for the number of balls on a stalk, and the very, very white bark?

--spruce

I am resurrecting this old thread to say that I have found a source for the "Old Bones" cultivar that is discussed in here. They can be ordered online from G2Gardens.com along with many of the Starhill cultivars. I am planning to have one in my garden soon!

Ok I just ordered a 'Suttneri' tree for this April 2014 from Forest Farm. Does anyone have any experience with this particular clone. Obviously it's thriving good for someone because I see it offered by a couple places. I really dont understand all the concern in growing sycamores. They have got to be one of the toughest fastest growing trees out there. I live in Iowa and yeah during very hot dry summers some leaves might start to turn but I know where there are some GIANTS that have had to survived 500-600 years here and none look phased by time, all healthy as can be. There are some Monster Sycamore trees at Krug Park in St. Joseph, MO. I dug a sycamore out of a ditch 4 years back when it was about 10 ft tall and now it is 25ft tall. These trees honk! Anyways, I plan on planting more out here on our 40 acres. I just thought 'Suttneri' would have been a neat one to throw in the mix. I just hope it's not as big of a weenie tree explained in the above link. I've not known any sycamore to be a weenie tree.

I usually like growing vigorous trees that need very little care from the beginning and sycamores need more than some, and suttneri needs more than the American Sycamores. Drought of 2012 killed my little one back close to the ground. Worthwhile if you can get it going and you seem to take better care than I do from photos I've seen.

I just never seen any issues with growing sycamores. I had to water my 25ft tree during the drought of 2012, but I only watered it once. They seem to be fairly drought tolerant for loving to grow near water. I thought plane trees were supposed to be tougher than sycamores anyway. I will make sure that the 'Suttneri' tree gets plenty of water in the beginning for the first 3 years but after that it's on it s own. I'm banking on the toughness of the species which I have seen to be nothing more than tough. I've seen storms and ice storms ravage parks and forests and the sycamores stand there as though nothing happened. This is a minimal care tree. I would like to learn how to grow sycamores from cuttings because of the majestic ones growing in Krug Park. There is one that has a wonderful spreading habit with massive pure white limbs. It's a tree that me and my wife would sit under when we first started dating. It has to be at least 500 years old, how's that for toughness? There's another at the park near the lake that reaches for the sky! It's even larger. The park is around 100 years old and they built the park around most of the trees. If anyone has any success stories with 'Suttneri' I sure would appreciate your input. Anyone order "Old Bones" from G2Gardens.com? I think it will be my companion for "Suttneri" out in the pasture.

Old bones probably would grow faster than a variegated Suttneri, nice to know that its available. I have debated about getting it, but shipping is a lot, not sure how big of plant for a total of 50 dollars.

Probably true of Old Bones and I agree cost and shipping is high but so was the tag on the Suttneri. I really need to get a picture of this sycamore growing in Krug Park posted. I plan on cloning it somehow. The limbs are massive. Instead of having a bunch of smaller limbs up the tree it's made up of fewer enormous limbs that are pure white and smooth. The foliage always appears to be extremely healthy and the leaves are massive as well. Lets just say this tree has elephantiasis. There are other enormous ones growing in the park but this particular tree really captures the eye.

Any limbs near reach or you going to have to climb it? find some vigorous shoots and should root readily. I've rooted sycamore without hormones before, so I'd imagine using some rooting hormone will help success percentage be pretty good. Just a lot of variables out there.

jlpn sells their Platanus via rooted cuttings, so they got it down good.

I might have to do some climbing. I know jlpn has rooted cuttings but I really don't want a huge bundle of 25. With sycamores you can run out of acreage pretty darn fast. I have now about 30 of the 42 I can spare and I want these trees to reach their max with out growing into another tree. I'm more optimistic about the Suttneri after finding some pictures online of some massive healthy trees. I don't think its going to fizzle out like like the above link proclaims. If any tree can grow through anthracnose it would certainly be a sycamore. I've yet to ever see one die in my entire life and I've been around a lot of sycamore. They were all over in Pennsylvania before I moved to Southwest Iowa. There are a bunch here in Iowa and a bunch in Missouri. So how would I go about rooting a sycamore? I do a ton of grafting but rooting always fizzles out on me. What would happen if I just cut a branch from the tree at Krug Park and stuck it down in the mud in my leech field, very swampy? Do I need a dormant branch or a green branch with sap flowing? Thanks

Here are some pictures of my side road ditch selected sycamore. I dug it based on its very large leaves and white bark. As you can see it exfoliates bark from the ground up just like 'old bones'. The upper branches are still brown but beginning to do the same exfoliation of bark.

A closer photo of the bark.

Here is a picture of a neat sycamore variant in my seedling row that I call fall red. From the time I sprouted this tree three seasons ago It has produced red/maroon fall foliage. Every other tree I selected produces the average yellow to brown fall color. I keep thinking this will change at some point but it hasn't. I am baffled by this tree.

Out of a 100 crowded seedlings I culled inferior trees that lacked vigor, large leaf size, and uniqueness. I wound up with 4 great trees. Yes a time consuming adventure but I wound up with this beauty.

treebird, I've seen saplings color "unusually", but revert to the usual color after they grow a bit. Still, those look like handsome saplings.

Check out these 2 new Platanus varieties introduced by Greenleaf Nursery, a wholesale nursery in Oklahoma. I recently saw them for sale (in small sizes) at a retail garden center in Ohio:
Rockford Road Planetree -
http://www.gardendebut.com/plant/Rockford-Road-Planetree - described as having âwhite bark similar to Eucalyptusâ at maturity.
Silverwood Sycamore -
http://www.gardendebut.com/plant/Silverwood-Sycamore - advertised to have âwhite bark all the way to the ground at maturity.â

Those are cool (addressing both Arbordave and Treebird), but how's the anthracnose resistance?

Zero anthracnose hairmetal. No sycamores planted around here have it, Nor does my Suttterni London Plane. Maybe its because I live in Iowa where winters are cold and climate isn't like it is the in the southern states. As for white bark down to the ground, I've seen this in many sycamore trees. I don't think it's that uncommon but red fall foliage is nothing I've ever seen on any seedling or tree. It will be interesting to watch this tree in the next few years. I will keep you all posted.

Would anyone on here happen to know where I could get a hold of some California sycamore seedlings or seed to possibly try out here in Iowa? I know it is listed as them being hardy to zone 7 but I don't think they've been tested beyond. I would like to try it and keep you guys posted. Thanks

Someone on Amazon sells Cal Sycamore seed.

I just wanted to share this neat photo of a leaf from a sycamore tree I found growing in a native stand of sycamore in Northern Missouri. The leaves look almost like a sweet gum tree leaf but it is indeed a sycamore. This structure is more typical of an Arizona sycamore not an American Sycamore. Branches are too high up to get scion from.

It seems that straight American Sycamore, once it gets past spring anthracnose, has nice, deep green foliage until fairly late in autumn.

However, London Plane, at least the commonly planted Bloodgood, around this time every year, is turning yellow brown with significant leaf drop for some reason, I think a combo of the stress of the sycamore lacebug and powdery mildew, but that's just a WAG on my part.

Do some of the newer LP cultivars like Columbia, Ovation, and Exclamation avoid this issue?

Treebird, could your red sycamore be a cross with the Autumn Glory Plane? Are the leaves deeply lobed?

Has anyone purchased an Old Bones Plane from g2gardens? If so could I get a review?