Fruiting of many cultivars sparse or infrequent.

maroon, purple or black foliage into my shady backyard anywhere above ground-level

Trees and shrubs with dark foliage don't always do as well in shady environments. For example, 'Forest Pansy' Redbud turns more green than purple in shade.

Actaea (used to be cimicifuga) 'Hillside Black Beauty' and 'Brunette' are plants I referred to as my poor man's JM before I finally started growing JM's as well.

tj

How shady are we talking?

If you get 6 hours you may still get decent color with a Black Lace Elderberry.

Personally I would not worry about planting a Japanese Maple in your home landscape...in fact I would take advantage of doing so.

'Forest Pansy' does not keep a good purple all summer in sun either. If fact, as with purple-leaved Japanese maples a green-and-purple motif seen in shade might be preferable to the faded, bleached or burnt appearance seen in full hot sun.

check into purple plum ... though it has some of its own problems... which are escaping me right now .. those oozy things which are benign ...

and sandcherry .. link below ...

since you are a newbie... green tissue produces chlorophyll ... which feeds the plant. ...

as leaf color moves away from green ... VIGOR is reduced ... and said plants usually either.. grow at a slower annual growth rate... or green up later in the season .. regardless of sun levels ...

in other words.. coloration of leaf tissue is constantly changing ... so dont set your expectations of purple from bud to dormancy ... you may find it.. you may not ...

hey.. check out tricolor beech too .... with its white edge.. some shade would be of benefit ... pix below ... on this one the white tends to burn off late in summer, depending on water and high heat .... and bboy will claim there arent really 3 colors.. so its auroemarginata more properly [white edged for you in reo linda .. lol] ... though in my book. the pink edge fades to a parchment in summer... making a third color .... good enough for me .. lol ... i am a collector... more than one of anything is a waste ... but i do have 2 of these ... go figure on that ....

ken

ignore the dwarf ... they are incredibly hard to keep out of the garden
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Here is a link that might be useful: link

'Purpurea Tricolor' ('Roseomarginata'). As can be seen even with this younger, more highly colored one the white does not have a big presence. With age the pink reduces also, although the tree always has a highlighted appearance.

And grows large in time.

One called 'Aureomarginata' would have golden yellow edges if aptly named.

I think you need to check your sources. Acer palmatum is not listed as an invasive species anywhere in the US but rather as a "watch" plant or a non-native species that warrants monitoring. The terminology used by the US Forest Service is "cultivated species which occasionally escape" and "are not currently known to be especially invasive". AFAIK, the only instance of this plant being documented as naturalized in wild/uncultivated areas is in quite specific and rather limited locations in Virginia and it is not even listed as a serious or moderate threat on their invasive species list as of 9/09.

How well a purple or dark leafed plant will retain color in a shady situation depends a great deal on the type and duration of the shade as well as the specific plant. In some cases, shade will 'green' out the foliage color however a similar effect will be achieved if a specific purple-leaf plant is grown in too much sun. Light, dappled or partial shade would accommodate many possibilities.

I think the poster is confusing Japanese maple with Norway maple.
Norway maple is the really problematic one norway maple is available in cultivars with purple, burgundy leaves so that's probably what they meant.

no no...not confusing with Norway Maple, which is definitely on the nono list as well, but I'm really not tempted by Norway maple. I think I have 3 of them already (they were just there) and babies keep popping up all over the lawn. (Can't decide whether to cut them down or not...)

Maybe my source is no good, though, or, as gardengal said, it's really just on a watch list. I found it on http://www.invasive.org/weedus/trees.html which I linked to from the usda site, but you're right that I'm not finding it on a number of other lists. That would be a happy thing.

I've been drooling over tri-color beech, black elderberry, and purple plum, but I don't think I get enough sun for them. Between 2-4 hours in the morning, then shaded by the house. Also, isn't the beech a fast-grower? I think it would be too big for my site (but would happily be convinced otherwise...maybe the shade would slow it down?)

Ken, I hope to build a garden that I can't keep my dwarf out of too.

hey .. i will shout ...

IF THERE ARE SEEDLINGS ALL OVER THE LAWN .... THEN IT IS INVASIVE BY PROOF ...

if you plant a norway ... you may as well not waste money on anything else ... to be a drama king ....

jimminey ... grass cant ever grow under a norway ... [though there is a variegated one that is really slow .... comparatively speaking ....]

get rid of every single one in your yard ... IMHO ....

copper beech.. 100 feet at longwood gardens .. the purple one ...

tricolor .. biggest i have ever seen is about 25-30 feet ...

most likely the leaf color interferes with normal vigor ...

man.. i try to pull bboys leg.. and i still got it wrong.. lol ...

link to black knot disease on purple plum .... flip to the pix side .... in my experience.. its irrelevant to the plant ... since it isnt a production fruit tree

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

Ok, you make me feel better about wanting to chop down the norways. I should probably wait until they leaf out and verify that they are in fact a norway or some other unwanted thing. But I really don't want them where they are whatever they are.

Grass grows there now, but the trees still seem pretty young yet. And if I take them down....I can plant COOL things in their place! Which would make me very happy. And then all my worries about tilling over existing roots go away because I will have no trees left to protect. (I'm keeping the maple in the front yard which seems to be much much prettier than the ones I want to chop in back. Plus it provides shade to the house in the summer and things seem to be growing under it just fine...and it's gorgeous in the fall...of course, it might yet die from the construction.

A plant that can be described as aggressive doesn't neccesarily make it invasive.

You could try paperbark maple. It's a nice tree. Just about any Asian maples including Trident, Shantung, Korean, Japanese and too many to list are nice ones to have. The American ones tend to have more invasive shallow root system like Silver, Red, Norway and Sugar (??). And they get very large. I'm trying to think of Asian maple that gets that large... I can't think of one.

I've seen pictures of Japanese Maple trees in Japan that are as old as 800 years. It was impressive to see such old JMs growing to size that we'd never see in USA in our lifetime. The fall color is spectacular. If anything, I wish it was easy to grow in Texas where I live. I mainly grow Shantung maple over here because it's a lot easier to grow in full sun with less water in crappy alkaline rocky limestone soil. Nice fall color to boot so I'm satisfied. Probably best overall consistent good fall color year to year. Not to mention that they won't get huge like most trees that are sold in the stores.

Anyway, don't be afraid to grow Japanese maple. There are so many nice cultivars to grow... in many shapes, color and sizes that you can fit a lot into your landscape and have spectacular fall color.

Here is a link that might be useful: JM trees in Japan

wow. Interesting link. They updated that site with some pretty cool interactive maps.

Well it looks like Japanese Maple is indeed exhibiting some invasive behavior. It's classified as an invasive in Fairfax county, VA because it apparently escaped cultivation in Rock Creek National Park.

Anyone in that area know anything about this?

I don't know that I'd let that stop you from planting them in NJ, especially if you aren't in a natural area or bordering a park or wetland. I don't normally take that position when it comes to invasives because I believe that just simply buying them promotes them and they end up getting shipped to areas they are a problem. In this case there's only one location in the entire country where they've been reported invasive. I'd say that's probably an isolated incident.

As a Minnesota resident, I find the title of this post so funny. I cannot imagine that a Japanese Maple (JM) is invasive anywhere, since folks here struggle to get JMs to come through a winter unscathed. I never in a million years ever thought I would see a thread with this title. (:o)

I guess we always want what we cannot have.

(I do have a JM that has survived since 2003 and is actually outgrowing its allotted space, but I am not going to hold my breath that I will ever see seeds on my tree.)

First reply sums it up...invasive or not most cultivar's fruiting is fairly sparse.

To the OP, I'd go to town with a couple asian maples, one flowering tree, some hydrangeas and mix in a few conifers and perrenials....boom, small garden is good to go.

European beech, including 'Purpurea Tricolor' ('Tricolor' is another, different, possibly extinct cultivar) are slow but except for dwarf cultivars most definitely not small-growing. A 'Purpurea Tricolor' in France was reported to have reached 100' by 1973. One in BC was 88' tall in 1994. And so on, including a Pennsylvania specimen 48' tall during 1980.

A German selection dating from 1880, the tree was in North American nurseries by 1891.

Two thoughts.

I am entirely willing to risk Japanese Maples taking over my yard naturally. Bet it would save tons of collectors tons of money!

Also, now I've been in my home 8 years I think about moving every so often. With the collapse of the real estate market and MORE IMPORTANTLY with the number of small trees I've planted, I've considered renting out my home just so I can watch things like my 'Purpurea Tricolor' grow and maintain some protective control over them!

Japanese etc. maples are small-growing, sugar etc. maples are large-growing. That is the difference in their impact on their surroundings in the garden and the woods, not whether they are of Asian or American origin. There are also small-growing American species of maples, such as moosewood, that are not as dominating as large-growing maple trees.

So do jm's have the same annoyingly shallow and thirsty roots of norways? They just cover a smaller area? Interesting. I wonder if I can identify my two young maples I've been tempted to chop down by their bark (as they have no leaves now). Grass grew under them just fine last year, but then it was so wet a season I was considering building an ark, so that's probably not representative. And I guess since they are definitely maples and seem like they will get pretty big, it almost doesn't matter what type they are.....if I want a yard and garden under them they should go. And if jm's don't fruit too much I may go ahead and get one. It's not like they are barberry which many sources have said are seriously altering the NJ pine barrens. (another invasive i would dearly love to have)

What kind of fall color did the maples in your yard have? If mainly yellow, they are probably no good...silver or norway.

Yep-definitely a boring yellow. Not even a spectacular yellow I'd want to bother to keep. I wonder what my maple infront is- it's not the most spectacular autumn maple I've seen but it's a pretty bright orange/red in fall. Why is it that the maple I'd like to keep (in front) is right where all the soil compaction happened, and the "bad" maples had no compaction? Murphys law.

OMG, I did a double-take when I saw the title of this thread too. I have a rather substantial maple collection, and of course that includes some Japanese Maples. It's rare to even see mine with samaras. Those that do produce them regularly have never, ever self sown. I can't remotely say that about most of my indigenous maples, who are harlots and will gleefully intermingle with the other maples and raise large broods in most of the flower beds. I'm in zone six, S.E. Ohio.

If you get some sun look up Fagus Sylvatica 'Purpurea Nana'. Very slow growing upright european beech with very dark purple leaves. It would make a nice replacement for a japanese maple.

David

Japanese maples come up in gardens here but seldom in the woods, as our summers are dry. Any kind of tree with orange or red fall color may be yellow in full shade. Silver maples here often have a mix of colors that can be quite nice, streaks or sections of purple, red, maybe orange and yellow. Green Norway maples growing in the open here often have quite a bit of orange and red on the outside; there is a grafted cultivar seen in plantings here that is consistently all yellow in fall.

A larger solitary Norway maple in a northwest WA community actually blazes in fall. A friend who grew up in Illinois said there was a Norway maple and a sugar maple nearby, these behaved as though trading off which one was conspicuous in a given fall.

Recently volunteers have started clearing Norway maple saplings out of a wooded ravine in a Seattle park. The numbers of these that were becoming established was positively frightening. Elsewhere here it is not usual in my experience to see such intense infestation - so far. I do know of a drier evergreen forest park site north of Seattle where too many have been coming up, but nothing like in the one moister, probably more fertile location.

During one segment in a fictional cop TV show I've watched the detectives go out to a local wooded site to look at a crime scene. It was during a time when the trees where not in leaf, as far as I could see just about every tree, small and larger was a Norway maple.

A person with a small garden may be upset when he cannot obtain the following plant at a local garden center. There is a dwarf form of Fagus sylvatica with dark purple leaves. A 40 year-old specimen in Trompenburg Arboretum was 10 feet tall and 6 feet wide. The leaves are smaller than those of ÂRohaniiÂ, keeping in scale with the tree itself. Fagus sylyatica ÂPurpurea Nana is quite uncommon in this country, but Coenosium Gardens will always be propagating some for sales

Here is a link that might be useful: CULTIVARS OF EUROPEAN BEECH

Filmed in a local wooded site back East.

One of my next-door neighbor's Japanese maples seeded like crazy a couple autumns ago in a grassy/mulched area along our property line. However I can't imagine those seedlings competing with the horribly invasive Norway maple seedlings which establish themselves just fine even in the middle of the Vinca minor nearby.

Smord do you have a pic of your backyard maples? Yes it would be a shame if your front maple were Acer saccharum which has fabulous fall color but is sensitive to soil compaction, and the back were Acer platanoides which can probably grow in a nuclear crater. If they are indeed Norways I would gleefully remove them.

Lou-midlothian, lovely pictures of Japanese maples at that link.

Why do we call Norwegian Maples "Norway maple" but we don't call Japanese Maples "Japan Maple"?

Now that is a very good question, iforgotitsonevermind...

I'm salivating over many of those beeches, but can any of them handle 2 hours of direct morning sun and then solid building-provided shade the rest of the day? I'm afraid they would be spindly and not have good color. And that's in the sunny half of the yard. Although given that we have some kind of grass growing there now, it must be a brightish shade....any ideas whether it's worth trying a beech? (The 3 trees - the oak and 2 maples, all have their heads above the shade line.)

The all-shade half of the yard is going to be dedicated primarily to ferns...

Beech is best with evenly moist locations that provide full sun...some shade it ok.

I think you need to strongly consider the asian maple selections including Acer griseum, Acer pseudosieboldianum and the many JM cultivars as your leading small tree choices for this shady location.

Other interesting, small scale trees for shade...
Acer campestre 'Carnival'
Cornus alternifolia 'Argentea'
Carpinus caroliniana
Halesia tetraptera 'Rosea'

bboy, yes the sugar maples in our forests are more yellow at the lower level, where as the higher levels are more red/orange.

Norway maple never gets any type of red/orange fall color...at least I've never witnessed it. Its anywhere from a dull yellow to a vibrant yellow.

We have the largest Japanese maple I've ever seen growing in our backyard. It is easily 20 feet tall and 35 feet wide. Beneath and around this tree there are literally hundreds of saplings. However given the growth rate of the trees even with all of the saplings, I don't think that Japanese Maples could be called invasive by any stretch of the imagination, especially given the fantastic color the tree exhibits at different points through the year.
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To those questioning the invasiveness of Japanese Maple: I wouldn't have believed it if you told me about this a year ago, either. But since then I've taken a long hike through Palisades Park in northeastern New Jersey, along the Hudson River. I must say, I was quite surprised at how widespread the Japanese Maple infestation was. Even an occasional red-leaved version, though the vast majority were the regular green kind. And keep in mind, we're talking about what is otherwise a natural maple/oak/hickory/tulip poplar forest full of healthy natives.

This post was edited by famartin on Thu, May 23, 13 at 0:20