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Fri, Mar 1, 13 at 10:22
| I tried to send you an email instead of posting this on the tree forum but your email address is unavailable in your profile. Anyways, I found a Missouri seed source for q. virginiana. At least the source claims the seed were collected in MO. You might want to call the source and verify before ordering ;) I can't help but think the webmaster keyed in MO instead of MS and the seed are actually from Mississippi. They would surely be worth trying if someone has a mature specimen in Missouri producing acorns. John Edit: I went ahead and called them since I had the time this morning and Greg Sheffield is supposed to call me back with info :) Edit 2: They called me back and said the seed collector lives in AR and is very reliable and accurate with his seed source info and mother tree ID (another possibility would be the collector collected from a fusiformis instead of virginiana). They offered to contact the seed collector and will try to verify the info, then call me on Monday. The person I spoke with did mention he was fairly confident the source info was accurate and seed were collected in Missouri from street trees (which raises my suspicion further they may not be q. virginiana). We'll see! You may not even want to try virginiana again for all I know!! |
Here is a link that might be useful: Sheffield's q. viginiana
This post was edited by j0nd03 on Fri, Mar 1, 13 at 11:30
Follow-Up Postings:
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| Thanks JOnd03, I will check it out. I have some that are doing fine and appear to be Q. Virginiana X Q. Fusiformis and backcrossed with Q. Virginiana. They grew really well last season (better than my Q.Fusiformis) and are still holding their foliage, although it's starting to turn brown here and there. I got them from Mossy oak natives online nursery. One is ' Late drop' live oak and the seed may have come from Texas. I have another in a pot close to the house, that was labeled Q. Virginiana. I was going to take it in for the coldest temps, but it kept holding leaves so I never took it in. It was right next to the house on the south/ west side, but this is a very small tree, skinnier than a pencil and in a pot, so I will put it in the ground. I would be shocked if the seed source is Missouri and it's a Q. V. but I will check it out. I have so many live oaks now, some (most) are Q. Fusiformis, which eventually are impressive in old age, but I like the faster growth of Q. V. I will still check out your link.Thanks for thinking of me with the source. |
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| Np, I know you had several experiments going and this is one tree you are very interested in :) I am curious about this source, myself. Obviously, if they are live oak, they are not native to MO, I don't want anyone thinking I believe that! OTOH, it would be very interesting if they have found some to be hardy that far north. Mine is still green as grass as well and sounds like you are finally having some success with this species. Good luck! John ps - I will still update this topic when I get the call back on Monday for completeness sake. |
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| I have read the Sheffields page for Live oak and it says hardiness zone 8. Lots of people in zone 7 can grow them. They seem to have to be hybrids of Q. Fusiformis to make it in zone 6 though. The 2 I got last spring from Mossy oak nativeslook different from those that I received from my other live oak orders. The one in the ground HAS to be part Q. Virginiana, it is more like the Q.V. by growing almost 2 feet the same season I planted it, my other transplanted oaks (not from seed) just sit there for the first year or may grow 2 inches the first year.. Plus the online discription pretty much says it is likely a hybrid of the 2, but they can't say it definitely is. They collect from the wild. If you get a call Monday and have time or whenever you have time post a reply of what the seed collector said. If they are Q. Fusiformis with no Q. V. I have them coming out of my ears. I may give one away to a friend who just bought her own house. |
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- Posted by alabamatreehugger 8a/8b south Alabama (My Page) on Mon, Mar 4, 13 at 16:09
| Your best bet will be trying to find some from VA or NC, that's about it's northernmost limit. |
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| Alabamatreehugger, I have tried 2 from Virginia and they died. That was last year. They were extra skinny, like a Linguini noodle and about the same in length. I am happy about the one in my back yard. It could still die, but the way it has been green so long and is still holding the leaves that are just starting to get brown now, I will be shocked if it dies. They usually defoliate in the spring from what I've heard, so they look like they will drop them pretty soon. I feel good about the one that was labeled ' Late drop' Q. V. |
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| All for naught... Sheffield's just called me back. The seed was collected in AR and the seed order page has been corrected. Sounds like you have your hands full anyways =) John |
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| I am growing live oaks Fusiformis variety and hybrid Fusiformis/Virginiana from the Austin Texas area in SW Missouri, there are a few remote areas of live oak (fusiformis) mixed with Ashe Juniper in extreme SW Missouri, along the Arkansas & Oklahoma borders. This Missouri location is only about 4.5 hours from the Texas border so it has mild winters, hot summers. Missouri is a tall state it's northern span borders Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois and Kansas, it's southern border Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas and Oklahoma. It's northern areas are zone 5 and southernmost zones 6b, 7a to 7b. The southernmost is Subtropical Humid Transitional as shown by the map (which I believe is better representation than USDA), area 8 which extreme southeast Pennsylvania is also in. It has a huge transition of zones, so it's not really that cold. In the far southern areas, Southern Magnolia, (Ashe Juniper -otherwise only found in Texas), Bald Cypress, Osage, Redbud, Crape Myrtle, etc. grow easily. My live oak do not defoliate in the winter, they defoliate in the Spring and they are suppose to and bring on new leaves. Pure Quercus Virginiana will survive here for some years, but we get cold blasts every 10 years that drop us to at least -5 below zero, at that point those trees get weakened or even die. Dallas had record breaking cold week about 10 years ago and their Virginiana died in mass, only the hybrid versions and the Fusiformis survived unscathed. My Fusiformis are about 5ft tall, my hybrids are about a foot. The wild ones I have seen are few but over 30 feet mixed in with some Ashe Juniper about 2 miles from the Arkansas border on Tablerock lake in Taney County. I think the biggest difference is that our cold snaps only last a day or so, then rebound quickly. Seems like Pennsylvania, even though it has some 6b areascwhen they do get cold snaps they tend to last longer, and your hot periods don't seem to get many days over 100 degrees so your heat zone may be slightly less. Still if you are in zone 6b, your Fusiformis should be fine. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Climatic map
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| I am growing live oaks Fusiformis variety and hybrid Fusiformis/Virginiana from the Austin Texas area in SW Missouri, there are a few remote areas of live oak (fusiformis) mixed with Ashe Juniper in extreme SW Missouri, along the Arkansas & Oklahoma borders. This Missouri location is only about 4.5 hours from the Texas border so it has mild winters, hot summers. Missouri is a tall state it's northern span borders Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois and Kansas, it's southern border Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas and Oklahoma. It's northern areas are zone 5 and southernmost zones 6b, 7a to 7b. The southernmost is Subtropical Humid Transitional as shown by the map (which I believe is better representation than USDA), area 8 which extreme southeast Pennsylvania is also in. It has a huge transition of zones, so it's not really that cold. In the far southern areas, Southern Magnolia, (Ashe Juniper -otherwise only found in Texas), Bald Cypress, Osage, Redbud, Crape Myrtle, etc. grow easily. My live oak do not defoliate in the winter, they defoliate in the Spring and they are suppose to and bring on new leaves. Pure Quercus Virginiana will survive here for some years, but we get cold blasts every 10 years that drop us to at least -5 below zero, at that point those trees get weakened or even die. Dallas had record breaking cold week about 10 years ago and their Virginiana died in mass, only the hybrid versions and the Fusiformis survived unscathed. My Fusiformis are about 5ft tall, my hybrids are about a foot. The wild ones I have seen are few but over 30 feet mixed in with some Ashe Juniper about 2 miles from the Arkansas border on Tablerock lake in Taney County. I think the biggest difference is that our cold snaps only last a day or so, then rebound quickly. Seems like Pennsylvania, even though it has some 6b areascwhen they do get cold snaps they tend to last longer, and your hot periods don't seem to get many days over 100 degrees so your heat zone may be slightly less. Still if you are in zone 6b, your Fusiformis should be fine. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Climatic map
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| The climatic map you posted has me in zone 7. I would have agreed with it before a couple folks showed me a bit of info stating that I had below 0 a bunch of times, although it was only a few degrees sometimes. Anyways, I'm zone 6. I have a q. Fusiformis/Q.Virginiana cross, I believe, because of more vigorous growth, compared to my Fusiformis favoring live oaks. I am pretty sure I have hybrids of Virginiana and Fusiformis. I have had too many failures of Q. Virginiana (pure) to believe otherwise. If you want to try a possibly larger live oak than Q. Fusiformis, Mossy oak natives has Live oak "late drop". It may get larger and grow faster than Q. Fusiformis. I stress the word "May". With hybrids, I'm sure you know, you don't know what you'll get for sure. I have Compton's oak also. It is a hybrid from Mossy oak natives. It is Overcup oak and Live oak hybrid. |
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| Yep the map I sent you is different than just a hardiness zones. It uses lots more criteria basically everything from heat zones to moisture to daylight to elevation, it was developed for the golf course grass industry, our zone allows for a couple species of Bermuda grass believe it or not. Some new baby live oak hybrids I am growing and just below it a bunch of Fusiformis.
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| I posted this in a related thread, but in case Joeinmo missed the other, I think my taller more vigorous L.O. cross may leaf out good this spring, I see tiny pink buds getting bigger. After hearing one of your Q. Fusiformis is only 1 ft tall, I realize my 1 ft tall Q. F. may be growing as fast as it's ever going to, sigh. I have confidence some of the many L.O. I have will live, I just hope they all don't grow 6-12 inches a year. I guess if they do, if I live another 15 years they will be 7 1/2 to 15 ft tall. |
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