Return to the Trees Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
The Great Tree Experiment

Posted by mattm01 TX (My Page) on
Thu, Mar 21, 13 at 15:06

After finishing some major backyard improvements last fall, the yard needed to be put back together. After the lawn came some additional trees for shade and/or privacy. These were selected mainly on size/adaptability to their location (dry, hot and rocky) as well as to add some variety from our native Live Oaks (Likely Q. fusiformis) and builder planted Texas Red Oak (Q. buckleyi). We put in some nice Q. polymorpha to start and then selected some Texas Ash (or so we thought). Turns out I needed to be more critical of a nursery's "answers". Fan-Tex Ash is NOT F. texensis. This was early in my "tree leaning" so lesson learned. Still a nice looking tree and the shorter lifespan won't mean much for it's location choice.
Originally from the NE, I still miss the Fall Colors of my earlier years. This led us next to some Chinese Pistache trees. A Texas All Star for the lawn. As the "tree addiction" started to take hold, my knowledge base expanded. A 5 gal "Keith Davey" P. chinensis was soon added and then, soon after, began the "maple phase". Thanks to posters on here such as "LouM Tx" and "ark trees" and some time scanning places like MetroMaples, two 5g Shantung Maples were added in other locations. One "normal" A. truncatum and then a "Fire Dragon" for the front yard. This pretty much filled up any tree space I had in my lawn. The problem was I was hooked and wanted to try and see what ELSE I could grow for fun. My theory was I would grow very small things in grow bags until they didn't make it OR need to find a home somewhere. I have lots of neighbors with room and figured Craigslist might be an option as well (or here). I'd have several years (or more) before the trees needed to be explanted to a new yard. There are too many trees now to get into details about all of them but I thought some spring pictures of many would entertain the tree people on here as well. To save time making sure I got the names right I'm opting for "common" names for now. Some trees are missing from the photos (A. barbatum, Fire Dragon Shantung etc due to forgetfulness - will update soon)

Enjoy!

Fan Tex Ash

"Keith Davey" Chinese Pistache


New Buds on KD C. Pistache


The "Tree Lab"


Japanese Maple Corner - Gets Afternoon Shade!


Sango Kaku new growth


"Glowing Embers" JM new growth


Seiryu JM growth


Shishigashira JM


"Purple Ghost" JM - this one was mistakenly sent. We'll see how it does with the Heat down here.


Acer longipes


Acer longipes


A. pentaphyllum (Left) and A. grandidentatum (Right)


Mexican Sugar Maple - A. schutchii


More Mexican Sugar Maple - this one is in a bag.


Paperbark Maple - this is the only one that seems to be struggling - Too much water? Not sure...


Paperbark Maple leaves looking a tad rough. Suggestions?


Big Tooth Maple Leaves


"John Pair Caddo" Sugar Maple - one of the later ones to leaf out.


New "Caddo" Leaves


Mexican Pinyon Pine - Needed at least ONE pine!


Small Trident Maple


Chalk Maple with Shantung Maple in the rear.


2nd Chalk Maple - I really like this one!


"Autumn Gold" Ginko


Gambel Oak


Hybrid Loquat Leaf Oak


Silver Leaf Oak


Mexican Blue Oak - hoping this little guy makes it! I see tiny buds though so fingers crossed!


Grey Oak just starting to leaf out


Mexican Royal Oak just budding out


Loquat Leaf Oak


Canby Oak


Canby Oak Leaves


Holly Leaf Oak


Portuguese Oak - this one was a bit rough when I got it but there are new buds so we'll see!


Algerian Oak


European Smoke Tree, Afghan Pine

More in another post...

This post was edited by mattm01 on Thu, Mar 21, 13 at 17:15


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

may I say.. "WOW"!

This post was edited by ttonk on Thu, Mar 21, 13 at 15:18


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

hi, may I ask you what's the origin of you Pinyon?
Thank

Osprey


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

That is quite an awesome collection you have got there! I can see you quietly overtaking your neighborhood with that collection. Knocking on doors and chatting it up then slipping a tree or three in their yard on your way home. That will be one uniquely beautiful hood in the coming decades. A pretty savvy approach to spreading your itch around when your planting space is limited. Good luck to ya!

A lot of those trees are pretty rare on this site. I'm sure updated pics of many of them would be appreciated occasionally if you can find the time to do it =)

John

ps - again, awesome!


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

@Osprey - I ordered a tube size Mexican Pinyon Pine from ForestFarm

To finish up - I ran out of time before...


American Smoke Tree - Fall colors!


A REAL Texas Ash Tree


Lacey Oak


new leaves on the Lacey Oak


Bamboo Leaf Oak


"Fashfire Caddo" Sugar Maple - Curious to see how this "select caddo" compares to the John Pair Caddo


Flashfire Caddo Leaves


Shantung Maple - This is the "regular" one. I forgot to take a picture of the "Fire Dragon" out front.

This post was edited by mattm01 on Wed, Jun 19, 13 at 23:43


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

Wow... That's quite a collection you got! :-)

Where do you live? One of the pictures showed a background of hills so it's either Cedar Hill or central Texas?

If you want small or medium trees for tight spots, try Super Dragon, Baby Dragon, and Skinny Dragon if Metro Maples have them available.

I see you got A. pentaphyllum... Very cool. I have one too. I'd suggest you to try out Montezuma cypress or Montezuma/Bald hybrid cypress mainly because of it's unique "winter" color but not sure if you have space for it. Ha.

My backyard looked like yours. I ended up having to give to neighbors just because I didn't have any more room...


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

superb..

i really enjoy 'experimenters' .... did you have any background.. when you started..

most impressed with your drip irrigation ... and most likely.. the root of your success .. pun intended ...

now.. i dont know TX trees from a hole in the ground [and some anatomical parts .. if you get my drift ...] ..

but the first thought that came to mind.. is that you have some truly exotic stuff in pots.. and wonder how common the stuff in the lawn is ... i am asking????

when it comes time to thin the heard ... IMHO.. get rid of the common stuff.. even if that is your bigger lawn plants that you paid $$$ for ..... and keep the exotic ... eh??

e.g. not knowing.. live oak is common down south, isnt it ...... but how many peeps have holly leaf oak ... or that gambel oak with its cool leaves .... etc ....

have you considered moving to acreage ... lol ...

ken


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

Lou - I'm in far NW San Antonio. I call it the "Toe Nail" of the Hill Country. The hills stop just south of me. I'm in the Balcones Escarpment I believe. Yard = 6-12in of "top soil" and then ROCK. I'll have to check out the Cypress options. I've found Nanjing Beauty - any source for the NM MC? Comments on either?

Ken - ZERO background before starting. Just did lots of reading from various sources to find common themes regarding trees down here. Since my yard sits on top of limestone, one big theme was alkaline soil. The first "round" of tree acquisition was focused on tree known to handle the soil around here. After that I started to spread out a bit to ones that weren't as known. The drip came about from the yard remodel. I knew we were going to plant more trees. The year we moved in ('09) the builder planted trees really struggled (VERY HOT SUMMER) and it took all I could to keep them going (hose, gator bags etc). I swore I wouldn't do that again so I had a "tree zone" put in. I ran feed to all the large trees and then ran an extension to the "lab" where I set it up nursery style (lots of feeds). It's not perfect as the larger trees will likely need different run times than the bags but it helps.

The large landscape trees are somewhat common. Mexican White Oak was used sporadically in the area. The Ash and Chinese Pistache have zero representation however. The Live Oaks are native to the area and the hills are full of them. I actually took down several scraggly Live Oaks in my yard to make room for some of the in-ground trees. I have certain other Live Oaks "targeted" for future replacement but my wife may kill me if I take out too many big trees. One of the Fan-Tex Ash is questionable so that spot may "open up" (It's got a warranty from the nursery so if it fails, I may try another "uncommon" trade tree-see below)

Regarding "common" trees down here - Live, Mexican White and Texas Red (Q. buckleyi) are the standard oaks planted. I've seen commercial sources for Canby and Loquat Oak but they're pretty rare in the public nursery arena. Many of the other oaks I have are quite rare from what I can tell. Particularly the Mexican and "texas" oaks.

I think I'll probably thin the Live Oaks more over the years to make some more room and find neighbors who care about plants to take others. There are also options in the "common areas" of my neighborhood that might workable. I specifically put most in 10g or 15g bags because I figured that size would still be manageable and also look ok replacing a mature Live Oak.

This post was edited by mattm01 on Fri, Mar 22, 13 at 11:06


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

Thanks.... do you know whether they are P. cembroides or P. discolor? Thanks


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

matt,
Glad to have been of some help to you. You certainly have the itch.... ;-) I also compliment you on your setup. Glad to see such trees as the Chalk Maple in your collection. MUCH MUCH MUCH neglected tree. They are basically a small Sugar Maple that is ALLOT tougher. The big producer are certainly missing out on selecting cultivars for small lot urban homes. And your comparison between Flashfire and John Pair should be excellent when they have enough time to get established.

I know I have my own mini-nursery where I grow things up, and then give them away. I have seed coming up as I type, including plenty of Shantung seed originating from our Fire Dragon. Since our tree is an isolated individual, these seed are without doubt due to self-pollination, and already some of the very early offspring are looking interesting.

I will make one small recommendation due to personal knowledge. For your American Smoke Tree, Cotinus obovatus, I would remove the drip irrigation. The reason being is they are sensitive to developing fatal root problems due to remaining too moist. Best to let them get pretty dry between waterings, and that basically requires hand watering.

Thanks for your post.

Arktrees


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

Matt,

Nanjing Beauty is pretty fast grower. I thought Stephen F Austin MC seedlings look better. They seem to more foliage dense. Pretty good growth rate as well. I started a crop of them a few weeks ago so I suppose I could give you some during the summer if you want. I have MCxBC hybrids that I got from Dr. Creech at SFASU planted at the new house nearby Spicewood, west of Austin out in the hill country.

Here is the picture of SFA MC that I left behind at the old house to give you an idea what they might turn out as they get bigger.

Here is a link that might be useful: MCxBC hybrids


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

Just wondering where you got some of those oaks? Is your Algerian oak a Q. canariensis or Q. afares? My Q. canariensis is over 10 feet tall now. The acorns came straight from Algeria via France. My Q. ilex is close to 3 feet now and growing fairly slow. My largest Q. oblongifolia is about 6 feet and growing fairly well. My Q. hypoleucoides is getting close to 15 feet. I'm guessing they are the largest and maybe the only ones in north Texas.(DFW) Gambell oak is from a high and dry elevation and has a little problem with humidity. THere are some large Q. canbyi planted just north of Dallas and a few large Q. rysophylla too. They have just lost some of their leaves and are putting on new growth as I type. Best of luck with your trees!


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

  • Posted by jqpublic 7b/8a Wake County NC (My Page) on
    Mon, Mar 25, 13 at 0:50

I love the little Mexican Sugar Maple!


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

I think 'Flashfire' Sugar Maple might be worth a try even in the humid East/Mid Atlantic. The common heat tolerant "regular" Sugar cultivars do OK here (Green Mtn, Commemoration) but the supposed RED of that fall color might be worth a try.

The only place I can find 'Flashfire' is ForestFarm...and their shipping cost to the east coast is understandably NUTS...


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

I hereby petition Matt for updated pics


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

  • Posted by whaas 5a SE WI (My Page) on
    Thu, Jun 13, 13 at 21:20

Dee, you should ask Ark what he thinks about the shipping!lol


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

Ahhh, it's good to see that I will not soon be forgotten... :-))

Arktrees


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

How great, a little tree nursery in the back yard! And imagine what your trees will be like in 10 or 30 years...:) Did you purchase all your saplings, or propagate any via cuttings or seed?


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

A. pentaphyllum...


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

Completely forgot about this post! I'll update with Summer Growth Pics ASAP. Many have filled out and the oaks are now on their 2nd or even 3rd "flushes" of growth. Only the Paperbark Maple is truly suffering at this point, still not sure of the cause.

- Yes, the shipping for the Flashfire Caddo Maple was rough. Unfortunately, some of these more unique trees are not available locally and 5g from FF or elsewhere costs $$.

- Lou, your A. pentaphyllum looks much more "full" than mine. Mine has 3 LONG main branches and is a bit "leggy". I wanted to give it a season to get situated before possibly pruning it to one leader and 2 non-main branches. This would, unfortunately, remove 20in from each of the branches. Thoughts?

- I had a STRANGE spring here in TX with upper 30s into early MAY (after Feb got into the low 80s!) Many of the young, budding leaves saw some insect damage. (Perhaps I should spray next time?)

- My Algerian Oak is Q. canariensis (from Oaks of the Wild West)

-Most of the Trees were purchased as small specimens. The Eucalyptus were all grown from seed.

I'll get more pictures and updates up soon - I've even added another member or three...

This post was edited by mattm01 on Wed, Jun 19, 13 at 23:53


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

Alrighty - Here's the mid-June photo update. As I posted above, we had a CRAZY spring weather wise with 80s in Mid-Feb and then near freezing temps on and off till early May! I think this wreaked a bit of havoc on certain trees as they either leafed out early or really late. The late ones, I think, were affected a bit by THRIPS. The new, tender leaves seemed to be a favorite of the thrips and saw some damage. This was especially true for my larger Chinese Pistache that leafed out really late. Some leaves never had ANY signs of being nibbled on as where others certainly had some chewing damage. That said, all the trees are growing well and many have had said spurts of growth. I'll note in the pics growth observations.


After 12+" of rain the past 4 weeks things are GREEN in TX! We needed it!


Keith Davey C. Pistache leafed out a little lopsided but that nice otherwise. Nothing a little pruning in a year or two can't straighten out.


Local nursery planted 45g C. Pistche - These were a bit leggy from purchase (didn't know much then) The leaves on these were hit by the bug/thrips a bit but, while still looking a bit rough, the trees have greened out. Next year will be solid I suspect.


Regular Shantung Maple. This put on 12"+ of growth in places and looks VERY NICE.


5g KD C. Pistache #2 - This one just looks really solid.


"Flashfire" Caddo Maple - Some Leaf tatter and raggedness during early growth but it's looking better now.


Close Up of the Flashfire leaves


On the right is a small Acer Barbatum (Southern or Florida Sugar Maple). On the left are several Eucalyptus that I grew from seed this winter and then transplanted to pots. I tried to select Eucalyptus that could handle the cold in zone 8. We'll see. I THINK I have E. wandoo, E. neglecta, E. blakelyi and E. microtheca My 2 year old daughter got into all my plant tags (pull them ALL OUT) so I don't know what's what and what died off!


Q. glaucoides - Lacey Oak all filled out. It has already had a 2nd flush as of growth.


Lacey Oak Leaves - Nice!


F. texensis - Texas Ash - The growth on this has been IMPRESSIVE! Like 3 FEET!


Q. myrsinifolia - Bamboo-leaf Oak - Two flushes of growth.


European Smoke Tree, Afghan Pine and a dwarf Smoke Tree from Forest Farm. The Euro Smoke Tree's leaves have lost some vibrancy - They color was better in early spring. Maybe more sun is needed?


Algerian Oak - 2 flushes on this oak as well.


Loquat Leaf Oak


Q. germana - Mexican Royal Oak - 2 flushes


Portuguese Oak - Looking MUCH Better! new growth for the season and looking like a 2nd flush soon.


Holly Leaf Oak (L) and Canby Oak (R) Both are on 2nd or 3rd Flushes!


New Growth on Q. Ilex - Holly Leaf Oak


New growth on the Portuguese Oak


Strong 2nd flush on my Silverleaf Oak (Q. hypoleucoides)


Slow but nice growth on this Grey Oak (Q. grisea)


This Gambel Oak put out a flush recently of over 12"!


This is some sort of Hybrid Loquat Leaf Oak with MASSIVE LEAVES. Maybe a cross with a Bur Oak?


The Mexican Blue Oak made it and even had a 2nd flush! Small but pretty.


The Maple "Grove". Not just maples. Front and center is a Red Maple which I've been impressed with - Strong and Healthy, 2 Chalk Maples are behind it, also doing really well! A Ginko and small Shantung Maple are on the right with others hard to see behind left.


"John Pair" Caddo Maple. No vigorous growth but the leaves on this Caddo Maple are by far my favorite. They had absolutely NO issues with bugs, tatter etc and look GREAT. Looks like a slow grower though.


The John Pair Caddo Leaves - Love it!


One of my bagged Mexican Sugar Maples. Some of the new growth is tattered (bugs?) but it's been a strong grower (20in?)


A bit hard to see but this is the 2nd Mexican Sugar Maple - 24"+ of growth!


My A. pentaphyllum - A bit leggy but doing fine. On the right is A. grandidentatum. I have a second A. grandidentatum in the ground I forgot to take a picture of.


New growth on the Pinus cembroides (Mexican Pinyon Pine)

This post was edited by mattm01 on Thu, Jun 20, 13 at 16:50


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

Great update :-)

My John Pair maple is also not growing a whole lot but had the best fall color of the 6 sugar maple cultivars/subspecies at my place last year by a wide margin. I bet it colors nicely for you, too.

I also bought a Mexican sugar maple from Almost Eden this spring that has grown about 3' this year after its second flush!

And I have to say my favorite of the second update is the Mexican blue oak. Wow...

John


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

I have to say, that Blue Oak is very nice. I wonder if it's because it is extra waxy leaves to deal with drought? Color kinda reminds me of 'Blue Shadow' Fothergilla which is exceptional.

Keep the updates coming. As someone with their own little personal nursery such as yours, I LOVE to see others.

Arktrees


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

I've never grown A. pentaphyllum before so I'm not sure what to expect. I figure I'll just let it grow for a couple years before I decide to prune or not. You probably should do the same for extra root growth. I don't see anything wrong with yours other than being leggy.

I thought I saw a couple of mature Blue Oak trees in my parents' in law neighborhood a few years ago. I'll have to go back and look for them. I recall them having the smallest acorns I've ever seen. I've posted pictures on GW but I can't seem to find them at the moment.


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

I think I will let it grow out a few season Lou. Good thought.

Given how well the John Pair Select seems to be doing and reports from others, I'm most interested in finding Dr Pair's OTHER select Caddo - Autumn Splendor. Does anyone know where I can source a small specimen? 3g is ideal but 1g-5g would work.


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

I think I will let it grow out a few season Lou. Good thought.

Given how well the John Pair Select seems to be doing and reports from others, I'm most interested in finding Dr Pair's OTHER select Caddo - Autumn Splendor. Does anyone know where I can source a small specimen? 3g is ideal but 1g-5g would work.


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

Hi mattm01, I'm also in San Antonio. I've been unsuccesful finding a local source for any small, lower priced pines. I'd been considering both the pinyon pine, and afghan pine. Were you satisfied with your order from ForestFarm?

About 1.5 months ago I planted two fan-tex ash. They're doing well and are about 12 feet(?) tall. Since I am/was desperate for shade, they were impulse buys, I'm beginning to think I'd like something more permanent and interesting instead.

As common as live oaks are in San Antonio, I haven't seen any in my immediate neighborhood...so they'd be a nice addition. I planted one, though it's only about 5 feet tall.

Any chance you'd be interested in a trade, or donating an unwanted live oak. I got my fan-tex at Fannick's so there's no mistaking their variety.

Paul


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

PS:
An advantage to fan-tex ash versus texas ash, the former is sterile and the latter may have significant seed litter. A few houses away, a neighbor is constantly dealing with their immediate neighbors texas ash dropping/blowing seeds into their yard and on their driveway/cars. While you may have wanted texas ash, your neighbors may be fortunate that it's fan-tex.

Was your complaint about the misinformed guidance from the nursery only because of reduced lifespan?

On a personal note, I grew up with an Arizona Ash in my backyard. It was attractive, but more importantly to a young boy, it was great for climbing...something I think is commonly overlooked when selecting a tree. I credit that arizona ash for my love of trees. Looking back, as silly as it sounds, that tree was one of my best friends...it greatly contributed to a fun childhood...do today's kids even know who Tarzan is? If you have children, hopefully your fan-tex will develop into a wonderfully branched tree fit for climbing, and foster their appreciation of trees like mine did for me.


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

mattm01, don't forget, there's a third Caddo cultivar out there, called Flashfire. I don't know if it was a John Pair selection, but J.F. Schmidts is propagating them.

Forestfarm sells it, others may as well.


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

Never mind, I see you have a Flashfire!


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

Pecos - all of my Live Oaks are very large natives - I can gather up some acorns this fall for you if you'd like. Best guess is they're Q. fusiformis based on their location and more upright growth habits. The two pines from ForestFarm were both in Tubes so pretty small. They were healthy and have done well though so no complaints - the Mexican Pinon would get my nod. My complaint with the FanTex was simply the nursery telling me the FanTex WAS a Texas Ash. Caveat Emptor I guess. Now I KNOW a lot more. We will see how it does year 2. 1/2 had borers etc and the nursery will warranty it this fall (likely I'll go with something else) I completely understand your love of climbing trees. Spent my first 20 years climbing every tree I could find in NY. TX lacks many good trees. My son has had some fun in some nearby Mexican Sycamore trees though.


I'll get late summer updates posted in Sept. Most trees doing well. One of my JMs got scorched but should survive. I'm putting together my Fall Planting Plan for this season now. Not many maples left. Several Oaks on the list...


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

Just a quick update as I see all the other posts with some fall colors. Not much is changing here in SA right now. Cedar Elm and Lacebark Elms are starting to turn and you see a bit of color on the Texas Red Oaks now. Some Yellow on the Soapberrys I drive by but we have a ways to go right now. We've had a varied Autumn so far with Cool then Warm with a fair amount of moisture. The only thing in my yard showing any real change right now is the Flashfire Caddo and my P. chinensis trees. I'll get a pic or two up. My paperbark maple didn't make it throughout the summer heat. Just couldn't take it and finally gave up the ghost. Most of my other JMs had some leaf scorch too. The Glowing Embers was doing really well until I moved it to a location with more shade BUT hot winds. The winds sucked it dry one day. Moved it back. Should make it though. A bit sad as I know that would have had some decent color. I've moved on to the oaks for the most part as I don't see a lot more success on the maples front. I do have 1-3 I'd like to add into the collection this fall. Not sure if I'll ever find the Caddo "Autumn Splendor" via mail order though. One debate is if I "need" a larger 5g "John Pair" (my favorite so far) or if it's better to keep diversifying!

I'll post up a late fall update with detailed pics of as many as I can. For now, here's the "master list" of what I have right now in the lab. I did have great hike in a park adjacent to my house which was really great. Discovered Lacey, Bigelow and Chinkapin Oaks along with the more common Escarpment Live Oak in my backyard. Gathered up Lacey and Bigelow acorns to plant. My backyard Live Oaks put out a metric TON of acorns this year. More than I've ever seen making patio clean up quite the effort! More in month or so!


Chinese Pistachio just starting to go


Flashfire colors - some leafs got a bit scorched late in the summer. Still trying to figure out how to water these as people say they don't like a lot of "help"


Flashfire Leaves

Flashfire Leaves


My John Pair thinking about it


John Pair close up

Here's the entire tree contents of my yard right now:
Full Tree List

Acer

barbatum - Southern Sugar Maple
buergerianum - Trident Maple
grandidentatum - Bigtooth Maple - TX sourced
grandidentatum - Bigtooth/Canyon Maple - OR sourced
leucoderme - Chalk Maple
longipes
rubrum - Red Maple
palmatum - “Glowing Embers”
palmatum - “Sango Kaku”
palmatum - “Purple Ghost”
palmatum - “Seiryu”
palmatum - “Shishigashira”
pentaphyllum
saccharum - “John Pair” Caddo Sugar Maple
saccharum - “Flashfire” Caddo Sugar Maple
skutchii - Mexican Sugar Maple
truncatum - Shantung Maple
truncatum - “Fire Dragon” Shantung Maple

Cotinus

coggygria - European Smoke Tree
coggygria - “Old Fashioned” Smoke Tree
obvoatus - American Smoke Tree

Eucaplyptus

microtheca and/ or wandoo - not 100% sure which, Could have both.

Fraxiunus

texenis - Texas Ash
velutina - “Fan Tex” Arizona Ash

Ginko

biloba - “Autumn Gold”

Pinus

cembroides - Mexican Pinyon Pine
eldarica - Afghan Pine

Pistachia

chinensis - Chinese Pistache
chinensis - “Keith Davey” Chinese Pistache

Quercus

buckleyi - Texas Red Oak
canariensis - Algerian Oak
canbyi - Canby Oak
coccinea - Scarlet Oak
emoryi - Emory Oak
faginea - Portuguese Oak
falcata - Southern Red Oak
fusiformis - Escarpment Live Oak (could be a hybrid with Q. virginiana but I lean towards “pure”)
gambelii - Gambel Oak
germana - Mexican Royal Oak
glaucoides - Lacey Oak
gravesii - Graves or Chisos Red Oak
grisea - Grey Oak
hypoleucoides - Silverleaf Oak
ilex - Holm or Holly Oak
macrocarpa - Bur Oak
marilandica - Blackjack Oak
mohriana - Mohr Oak
muehlenbergii - Chinkapin Oak
myrsinifolia - Bamboo Leaf Oak
nuttallii - “New Madrid” Nutall Oak
oblongifolia - Mexican BLue Oak
pagoda - Cherrybark Oak
polymorpha - Mexican White Oak
pungens var. vaseyana - Vasey Oak
rugosa - Netleaf Oak
rysophylla - Loquat Leaf Oak
rysophylla - “Hybrid” Loquat Leaf (HUGE Leaves)
sinuata var. breviloba - Bigelow Oak
sinuata var. sinuata - Durand Oak
turbinella - Turbinella Oak

Ulmus

parvifolia “Allee” Chinese Elm

Future Trees - Hope to add these in the near future

A. grandidentatum - “Highland Park” Bigtooth Maple
A. saccharum - “Oregon Trail” Sugar Maple
A. saccharum - “Autumn Splendor” Caddo if I can ever find one to mail order!
Q. pungens var pungens - Sandpaper Oak (might not happen till next fall)


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

Quick notes: Yes, I know the grass is invading some of the larger tree rings. I plan to remove the berms, put down weed block and ring them later this fall when the grass goes dormant.

Several of the newer oaks are reportedly "marginal" in alkaline soil. I've read mixed reports on some of them (e.g. falcata) but figured they'll be in bags for a long while so might as well see how they do with the other weather conditions first. I might try and mix in native dirt when I move them up in a year or so to ease them into the higher pHs. I believe my backyard is right around 7.8pH based on published soil surveys so not horrible but certainly not neutral or below.


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

For some trees in their first year in the ground always look bad but comes back looking much better next year (small size trees). Also, planting time does make a huge difference during the first year. Planting in fall/winter will give you much better looking tree compared to spring planting.

Sometimes the tap water does funky stuff to the leaves when watered so if you use sprinkler system for the lawn, it's probably why.

If you're worried about watering too much, look at the year of 2007 when Texas got a lot of rainfall. That happened to be such awesome year for tree growth. Must be something in the rainwater, eh?

As far as getting rid of grass, I use round up to kill them then mulch over dead grass. I occasionally us RU whenever grass pops through the mulch. Annoying but that's Bermuda grass for you. It'd take nuclear weapon to get rid of it entirely.

Throw in Montezuma Cypress... Pretty cool tree to have that will turn rustic red in the middle of the winter. Mine grew 4-5 ft in their first year. Shantung Maple 'Skinny Dragon' looks like it grew about 5 ft? Blaine's Dragon about 3-4 ft. Super Dragon got burned off unfortunately. I guess full brunt of afternoon sun was too much for lime green color leaves to handle... Or too much water since all the container trees were around it that needed daily watering in the summer. Who knows?


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

What is the usual growth rate of Q. Fusiformis in your yard? Have they ever died back to the ground? I have one in zone 6b. I was just curious, mine have died back but grew back. I just wondered how they grew in their more native areas.


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

My Q. fusiformis are the native trees. They were here long before my house went in. Several are over 30 feet tall. They can flush several times a year and I've had flushes of 18 inches. Wild guess is they can put on over 2 feet or more a year. It depends on WHERE on the tree is occurs though.

We don't get super cold down here but back in the '09-'10 winter we had a stretch of several days with lows down into the teens (17deg) and highs not much above 25 deg. All the native Q. fusiformis didn't blink. Looked fine with zero die back.

We had out first freeze last week and the colors down here are speeding along.


John Pair Caddo


C. pistachio starting to color


A. barbatum (left) and A. leucoderme (right, behind green leaves)


Caddo "Flashfire" looking good.

More are on their way but have a bit more to go.


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

Looking good =)

You will have some gorgeous root systems when you get around to planting those babies!


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

I love looking at all of your trees. They all look great. I have two John Pair maples myself. Yours turned really pretty. I can't wait for mine to get a little bigger and start producing colors as nice as yours.


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

Poaky,

Those live oak are native to central Texas. They are EVERYWHERE. The dieback has more to do with the amount of rainfall, not cold weather from what I can tell on my old oak trees in the backyard. With ample rainfall, around 2 feet for old ones. The coldest Texas ever saw was back in 1980s when It was in low single digit temperature.


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

Edit: OP already answered question above. Doh!

This post was edited by j0nd03 on Wed, Nov 20, 13 at 15:54


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

Okay. I just want to add that after looking around today, my biggest Q. Fusiformis has lost a few leaves on top. My "late drop" L.O.'s look untouched. Must be hybrid vigour thing, or the Q. Fus. put out late growth too late.


 o
RE: The Great Tree Experiment

Year Two thread has just been posted

Here is a link that might be useful: Year 2


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Trees Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Please review our Rules of Play before posting.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here