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misssherryg

Hickory Seedling?

MissSherry
16 years ago

In addition to lots of acorns, I also picked up and planted a good many hickory nuts last fall both locally and in northwest Florida - I think both the MS and the FL nuts were carya tomentosa. The acorns have been sprouting in great numbers, but until today, I couldn't find any hickory seedlings. I found this in an area where I planted a lot of hickory nuts - I don't think it has enough leaflets to be a pecan, which the squirrels plant all the time. Doesn't this look like a hickory to you?

{{gwi:336601}}
Sherry

Comments (20)

  • jqpublic
    16 years ago

    Yeah definitely a hickory. Normally the baby leaves are a little different in that you may not get as many leaflets as you would on a mature specimen. Good luck. I think hickory nuts do not have high germination rates...luckily those that do...if lost...will come back again and again with suckers and roots. I don't think pecan's sucker and root as well. I planted a few 1yr seedlings last fall. 1 Hican, 3 southern pecans, and 4 shagbarks. Several were topped off by rabbits, but I'm sure they'll push through this spring. I can already see some scarring bulging out of the little sticks.

  • alabamatreehugger 8b SW Alabama
    16 years ago

    I planted a few mockernuts last fall too and I found one coming up today. It looks just like yours.

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    That's great, Alabama - we'll probably find more seedlings as the spring progresses.
    Do you know how fast mockernut hickories grow, jqpublic or anybody? About as fast as pecan seedlings?
    Sherry

  • alabamatreehugger 8b SW Alabama
    16 years ago

    I'd guess about 1ft a year (similar to white oak). I think pecans grow a little faster than "true" hickories.

  • pteroceltis
    16 years ago

    Pecan is a "true" hickory.

    Misssherry, any idea what species the little guy might be? It looks very much like the wild Bitternuts in this area, although coming from Florida it's probably something a bit more interesting :) Generally the Bitternuts around here stay tiny for a year or two, then shoot upwards like a Cottonwood.

    Despite the litter they produce, Hickories are definitely one of my favorite groups of plants, maybe behind only maples.

  • jqpublic
    16 years ago

    Pecans grow very fast I believe, especially if given a lot of water. The other hickories focus more on their tap roots the first several years, and will then show more consistent strides at growing faster as they get more mature. Those suckers that I was talking about earlier can grow about 2 feet a year. We have several suckers in our yard from what I believe is a pignut or mockernut which grew almost 2 feet last season alone.

  • jqpublic
    16 years ago

    Oh an here is a great link about NC trees. It shows in detail the leaves and bark of many of our native southern trees...with pics of actual specimens around us. You can look at the leaves and see what yours looks most like. I think bitternuts have thinner leaves, where these seem more rounded...but since they are young that can change.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Trees, Shrubs, and Woody Vines of North Carolina

  • Fledgeling_
    16 years ago

    Pecan is a "soft" hickory, not a "hard" hickory like mockernut. Mockernut will grow much slower as pecan is very fast for a hickory.

  • alabamatreehugger 8b SW Alabama
    16 years ago

    I have what seems like hundreds of pecan seedlings pop up on my property every year, and they sometimes grow about 2ft. I don't think a Mockernut will grow that fast.

    (Some people don't consider pecan and bitternut to be true hickories like the others, they're considered "pecan hickories". The wood of pecan is not durable like most hickories, it is very brittle which is why they break apart in a hurricane, believe me I know. ; )

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Pteroceltis, bitternut hickory/c. cordiformis isn't native in my part of southeastern MS or the Florida panhandle where I got the hickory nuts, so, unless the trees these nuts came from were planted, I don't think they could be that one.
    According to my books, water hickory/c. aquatica, pignut hickory/c. glabra, red hickory/c. ovalis, sand hickory/c. pallida, mockernut hickory/c. tomentosa, and maybe southern shagbark hickory/c. ovata var. australis are native to both my area and the part of the Florida panhandle where I picked up the hickory nuts. I got the Florida nuts at the same rest stop where I got so many acorns, that is where I-10 crosses the Apalachicola River, and I got the Mississippi hickory nuts from a big tree in front of an old, abandoned falling-in house a mile or two from here - the two trees looked the same to me, but then since hickories all look so much alike, they might have been different types.
    I found another seedling in the same area as the above pictured hickory where I planted quite a few nuts, but I think this is a pecan seedling, because of the serration in the leaves. Or maybe it came from one of the nuts I planted, and they're of two different types, not both mockernut hickory/c. tomentosa -
    {{gwi:336602}}
    Whatever type they are, they're undoubtedly going to take a while to mature - hope I live to see it!
    And I know what you mean about the brittleness of pecan trees, Alabama. There are lots of groves around here, and SO many trees were lost in Katrina, plus the ones that survived lost a lot of branches!
    Sherry

  • xyus_quebec
    16 years ago

    I was wandering how many years it takes to produce nuts from Shagbark hickory in zone 4a? I know that black walnut can be very fast and produce in early age. I am about to plant some shagbark hickory to stabilize some part chich tend to desingate we need something that grow a long tap root fast.

  • jqpublic
    16 years ago

    I heard roughly 25 years for most hickories.

  • lucky_p
    16 years ago

    Yep. I'd hazard a guess that you'd be waiting at least 20 years - and very possibly more, for a seedling hickory to begin producing nuts.
    BUT! You could get your shagbark seedlings established and growing well, and then graft on named cultivars. Grafted selections will bear in half the time(or less) that you'd have to wait for a seedling, and nut quality/size would be a known entity, not a genetic crapshoot.
    Or, you could just plant grafted hickories from the outset.

  • jqpublic
    16 years ago

    How are you guys gonna protect your Oaks and Hickories from the rabbits come this winter? All my seedlings I transplanted were at least nibbled once by these critters :(

  • radagast
    16 years ago

    Ah, hickories! One of my favorite trees. They are so underappreciated and hard to find for sale anywhere because of the taproot. That, and they are not fast growing for the most part. But they form a good-sized tree with nuts for the critters, and the golden fall colors are just stunning!

    Enjoy the trees!

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Jqpublic, I'm not going to do anything, other than just hope for the best. I've planted more acorns and hickory nuts than I need right in the ground, plus I've got a lot in containers that I'll be planting in the fall. Many of my plants get chewed by rabbits and deer, but they nearly always recover. The ones in containers should be at least tall enough that by fall the top leaves will be out of the reach of rabbits if not deer.
    Which reminds me of a question I have..... Do trees with taproots hold up better in strong wind than trees that were originally grown in containers whose roots were pruned? It seems to me that a taproot would give a tree stability, so I may go ahead and plant all the potted up trees now before I prune their roots. I had planned to only plant the potted up seedlings now that I thin out of the pots.
    Anybody know how much wind protection, if any, a tree gets from a taproot?
    Sherry

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Hmmm....well, then, Lucky, I guess I'll just stick to my original plan - that way I'll have some with taproots and others without.
    Did you decide you don't want any scions from my mystery hybrid white oak after all?
    Sherry

  • lucky_p
    16 years ago

    No, I didn't make that decision - just forgot to ask. I'm still interested, but I'm sure it's too late to cut scions this spring - y'all's oaks are leafing out, already, arent't they?

  • MissSherry
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Yes, the tree is leafing out nicely, no longer dormant. It's making a nice tree!
    Sherry

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