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Tue, Mar 13, 12 at 20:24
| Hey, folks. brandon7's post on "Liquid Copper Fungicide" has keyed thoughts on an experiment of mine. First, I am a "Shigo" guy. No, not everything he (or anyone else) says is 100% correct. For those of you that have read "A New Tree Biology" by Shigo, I question chapter 41, Wound Dressings. Too long to repeat here.
I agree with the majority of the concept, that products that seal the wound often promote pathogen growth and increase. He also makes the statement that in his own experiments "Some other materials were used because they kept the cambium moist, or helped to dry the wound surface, or to stimulate callus formation, or to keep insects out that carried pathogens, or to keep everything out but to let the wound 'breathe.'" If there was a common product that didn't keep the cambium moist, didn't stimulate callus formation, kept insects out, and let the wound breathe, wouldn't that be a boon? For years I had to deal with commercial customers that just absolutely had to have a "medicine" to treat a tree wound on a fresh cut. Some would simply not accept "nothing." When treating my garden tool handles one fall with boiled linseed oil, a thought occurred to me - this is an organic and protective product, what if it would satiate the customer's need to "goop" something onto the wound? So, for the last 10 years, I have done so on my own trees. A day after pruning I painted the dried cuts with boiled linseed oil. The result is this: it lets the wound breathe, prevents excessive moisture penetration, there has been no prevention of callus formation, no insect penetration of any wound and there has been no apparent rot or fungal activity on ANY wound on any tree. This has been applied to various oaks, maples, redbud, baldcypress, crabapple, lacebark elm, river birch, magnolia, white ash and dogwood. All wounds from trimming have healed quickly and well. As a point of discussion, what thinkest thou? |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by toronado3800 Z6 St. Louis (My Page) on Tue, Mar 13, 12 at 21:37
| A much needed experiment. Did you apply follow up treatments? Did you notice any difference over non treated cuts? I was watching a recently pruned maple trap ants in the sap it was bleeding the other day. If ants (and people) were not drawn to maple syrup I would almost recommend it. |
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| My only question is how it allows the wound to 'breathe'. Oil is a suffocant and that's why it's applied to kill insects. |
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| Your comment is why I started this post. Only one thorough application of linseed oil per cut. I did leave some cuts untreated; the only difference that I noted was that the treated cuts seemed to heal more quickly (objectively) and did not turn black as fast. The wounds were made in the fall, so I question if ants spread fungal activity or are just after the sugar when a maple is cut in spring. hortster |
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| calliope, after a short time the wound forms small cracks throughout the wound. I will post pictures as light permits tomorrow. hortster |
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- Posted by wisconsitom 4/5 WI (My Page) on Tue, Mar 13, 12 at 22:39
| I'd say that while your technique may not be harmful, there's simply not enough info here to say that it is in fact helping the trees. True, you noted a difference in color of the wounds between treated and non treated, but this alone does not indicate, to me at least, that any benefit has been delivered. For the record, I too have been following the work of Shigo, in my case, since 1980. I believe he did the industry a great service. But I also have a great deal of respect for folks like our own Spruceman, who has quite likely developed a valid technique for preventing decay in wounds. But the overriding thought for me is this: By now, I've personally pruned thousands upon thousands of trees. Together with those pruned by my colleagues, it's in the tens or hundreds of thousands. We don't see all kinds of rot and decay where we've removed branches (left untreated). To me, a well executed pruning cut closing properly is the norm and the expectation. Still, I welcome the fact that you and others continue to look for something helpful. There's no reason to think we're at the endpoint in tree care. +oM |
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- Posted by konrad___far_north 3..just outside of E (My Page) on Tue, Mar 13, 12 at 22:57
| I do grafting and use Dr. Farwell's grafting seal. On some injuries or large cuts I use the same thing...I'm sold on this product. See thread. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Bark Grafting
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| As stated before, some folks insist on using something to "protect" the wound and don't understand compartmentalization. In order to prevent them from using commercial sealers, paint, or heaven knows what else, my initial reason to experiment with this was to find something innocuous to recommend to relieve their unfounded worries. I noticed that healing was healthy and seemingly not inhibited at all and that there was no apparent parasitic activity on any of the treated cuts. The linseed oil may have no effect on healing, but I was curious what others thoughts were on this. I appreciate your input. And, by the way konrad___far_north, fantastic grafting work. hortster |
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| I know what you are saying about people insisting on treating pruning cuts, packing trees with cement and God knows what else. Even if the linsed oil doesn't help, it does no harm and does give the clients an excuse to do 'something' they think is contributing to the healing cause. It's much the same way with human patients who are disappointed if they doc does't write them a script every time they visit. Sort of a tin foil hat, at worst and a possibly you are on to something. I do know oil has been used as a preventative on some ornamentals from powdery mildew. I'm not too quick to discount something because it may be out of the box. |
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- Posted by konrad___far_north 3..just outside of E (My Page) on Wed, Mar 14, 12 at 19:49
| Hortser, Thanks for the encouragement! Think I know what your'e talking about, if your customers really want something...why do you want to give them snake oil instead of the real thing? Guess I'm one of them...only for large cuts, not regular pruning. Did Shigo experimented with Dr. Farwell's? |
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| Today I actually re-read his comments on wound treatment. No mention of Dr. Farwell's. Shigo would likely have negated Dr. Farwell's since it is a sealer and would have kept moisture in the wound. Having been involved with ordering understock at a nursery for grafted junipers I am familiar with the techniques; watched them do their own scion cuttings onto "Hetzi" because of its heavy root system. They also did their own ornamental pears and also crabapples, but not as beautifully as your pix show. They used the old rubber band technique vs. "wax." That is saying something as the field foreman was an excellent grafter with high take. Believe me, I tried as much as I could to discourage the "gooping" of tree wounds, but some friggin' people WILL NOT LISTEN. Ergo, the attempt to find a placebo. hortster |
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- Posted by konrad___far_north 3..just outside of E (My Page) on Wed, Mar 14, 12 at 23:44
| I know...especially the useless nasty tar people still use. |
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