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Help with maple selection

Posted by jrw8250 Ohio 6 (My Page) on
Fri, Mar 21, 14 at 22:31

Hi all, I am looking to replace a dead and removed Norway Maple with a native maple tree. There are so many choices, and the more I read, the more undecided I am. My local nursery suggested a Autumn Fest or Commemoration Sugar Maple. They also mentioned a 'Red Sunset' maple. If this will help, here is my setting/goals.

1. native tree
2. near street(parking side) - 6'x12' grassy lawn.
3. native sugar maple leaves and fall color.
4. Will start in the 12' tall range.
5. strong branches
6. not really used as shade, so just for beauty. It will shade between 6pm and dusk.

I'd appreciate any suggestions or concerns I need to consider.

Jeff


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Help with maple selection

i would start no larger than 6 foot ..

it will recover the process faster ..... and most likely outgrow the 12 footer in 5 years ...

personally i would go with oak ...

ken


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RE: Help with maple selection

In a "6'x12' grassy lawn"? If the space is that limited, you'd be better off planting behind the sidewalk.


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RE: Help with maple selection

Wow, would a 6-footer really catch up with a 12-footer? Also, the planting space is rather large compared to many places in the city. In fact, many large trees are still in their typical street/sidewalk strips. I will say that some of the sidewalks are rather heaved. These trees are rather old.
Ken, why would you choose an oak? Is this your preference or some other reasons?


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RE: Help with maple selection

I forgot to mention that I would save some money buying a smaller tree! After calling my local nursery, they wanted $285 for a 12' 'Commemoration' Sugar Maple. This seems rather high to me, but maybe this is normal. I do prefer to support my local business rather than a big-box store.

Thanks,
jeff


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RE: Help with maple selection

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Sat, Mar 22, 14 at 13:07

Sugar maples often don't like city conditions and there is a disease problem with these back East now.

Here Freeman maples are often planted, as are red maples which some Freeman maple cultivars may be sold as. Norway maples are prevalent also but that species is a weed in northern North America - and in my climate apt to become full of aphids during the summer on some planting sites.

Red maples like a moist planting site, many here suffer during our annual marked falling off of rainfall during the growing season, starting most noticeably in July. Freeman maples are said to have the advantage of inheriting some of the drought resistance of silver maple.

All, except perhaps for sugar maple are quite fast growing - there should be no need to plant a large specimen.


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RE: Help with maple selection

Hi bboy, what disease is affecting the sugar maple? Is this widespread? As for the the norway maple, it won't be considered. I want somehting native. Mainly because of it's weak branches, I am not a fan of silver maple. The nursery did recommend a 'Red Sunset'.

Jeff


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RE: Help with maple selection

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Sat, Mar 22, 14 at 16:36

Search "sugar maple decline", I think that is the phrase being used. I didn't suggest silver maple, if that is your point - I was talking about it in reference to its much-used hybrid called Freeman maple.


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RE: Help with maple selection

You might want to find out why the previous tree died. If from verticillium wilt or armillaria root rot, you will want to be careful to completely remove the larger roots from the old tree before replanting the same genus. A better idea would be not to plant another maple there. Have you considered anything other than maple?


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RE: Help with maple selection

Hi bboy, I did not think you were suggesting a silver maple. I only mentioned the silver maple because so many hybrids are part silver.
To PrestonFarmer, maybe more info would be helpful. We moved into our home in July 2011, and noticed considerable dieback of our norway maple. We wondered if we could save it, so we had a arborist come and look at it. He said it is gone. In the late spring 2013, we had it cut down and the stump ground down. He mentioned something about a fungus (tar sport or black spot), I can't remember. There are 2 mature and 1 youngster Norway up the street from us. He said they all are infected. He did mention he could use 'injectors'. Does this mean NO maples or just certain ones? If not I could look at a oak.

Thanks for your help,
Jeff


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RE: Help with maple selection

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Sat, Mar 22, 14 at 23:09

Freeman maples are part silver and part red maple. There is more than one cultivar of Freeman maple on the market, and these are prevalent. Other than that there are not many maples with partial silver maple parentage - none, in fact that I can think of.

Tar spot is a leaf fungus that makes dark spots on leaves of susceptible species of maples. I do not remember seeing either pictures of infested Norway maples or any examples in person. I have seen it on big-leaf maples here; when the spotted leaf is the size of a plate it makes quite an impression.

Not sure how injection of chemicals would relate to control of a leaf fungus; wouldn't expect tar spot to be fatal, either. But maybe you and the tree service talked about two different things.


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RE: Help with maple selection

Sugar Maple Decline isn't a "disease" per se. It's basically the result of poor urban conditions affecting the tree and it slowly dies - soil compaction, salt, drought, heat (from pavement especially), etc. It's not a specific pathogen.

We're a fairly warm area for sugar maple, but they do just fine if they have a nice area to spread in, soil that isn't compacted or covered by pavement, and far from road salt runoff.

That's again why they're not good street trees.


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RE: Help with maple selection

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Sun, Mar 23, 14 at 0:02

I was thinking of reports of the new level of incidence being seen - including it not being limited to urban sites.

Maple decline affects
primarily sugar maple (
Acer
saccharum
), Norway maple (
A. platanoides
) and red
maple (
A. rubrum
) in the Northeast. The problem is
not a new one; stagheaded maples were described as
early as 1917 in Massachusetts. At that time, dieback
was attributed mainly to drought and to the poor
conditions for tree growth afforded by the urban
environment. However, reports of the incidence and
severity of maple decline have increased markedly in
recent decades and now include trees in urban,
sugarbush, and forest environments

Here is a link that might be useful: Cornell Fact Sheet - Maple Decline

This post was edited by bboy on Sun, Mar 23, 14 at 0:05


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RE: Help with maple selection

Guys, you have been a huge help. So, as for the Norway dieback and tar spot, would it be possible that the tar spot was a result of age and environmental stress? What shade producing tree would you guys recommend for this setting. I really like the canopy of the sugar maple, since it is rather dense. Would a Scarlet Oak or Red Oak be good options? Don't these trees rely heavily on a deep tap root? Since there is alot of concrete/asphalt near this location, what are my choices? I really appreciate your ideas and tips.

Jeff


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RE: Help with maple selection

overhead utility lines are not a consideration, right?


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RE: Help with maple selection

Admitting my ignorance, any thoughts about a shantung - Fire Dragon maybe?


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RE: Help with maple selection

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Sun, Mar 23, 14 at 13:55

Might be something for you here.

Here is a link that might be useful: The Best Trees to Plant in Ohio


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RE: Help with maple selection

Hi sam_md, no thee are no utility lines where the tree will go. There is a streetlight down to the left, but not close enough to affect a new tree. All of my utilies run through the backyard, including sewer, water, gas, cable tv, phone, etc.. I have room for all the vertical space I want, but would want something that is strong enough to handle high winds from storms. Our neighbor across the street has a pin oak that in just 18 years or so, has exploded in height. It looks really nice, but I don't know if I want something that big.

Thanks guys,
Jeff


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RE: Help with maple selection

You may remove the damage part by calling some tree removal contractors. They may guide you for better alternative.


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RE: Help with maple selection

Don't these trees rely heavily on a deep tap root?

==>>>> i am no tree scientist... but taproots are for seedlings... to hold the seed in place while it grows airborne ...

after that... trees dont really put down giant single tap roots ...

i am sure you have seen trees blown over in storms.. its a giant flat pancake of lawn ... not a giant carrot sticking out of the ground ...

listen ... norways are a horrible.. horrible tree... you should be dancing a jig that you lost it .. not wondering why .. lol ...

as you drive thru the neighborhood... just look how many trees there are .... plant whatever you want... all other variables are irrelevant ... presuming the tree is appropriate for your area ...

i thought i gave you a link to wade and gatton tree farm.. within a 100 miles of you???? .. it was one of your other posts... yes.. no???? .. i suggest you call them.. before the busy season starts ...

ken


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RE: Help with maple selection

Tar spot is no big deal. Rake up the leaves and destroy them. Verticillium wilt is a BIG problem for maples as it is a vascular disease. You can tell it's verticillium wilt if the wood of trunk or twig is stained. Check the link.

Here is a link that might be useful: verticillium wilt


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RE: Help with maple selection

  • Posted by beng z6 western MD (My Page) on
    Fri, Mar 28, 14 at 9:38

My observations are limited, of course, but I don't see any evidence of sugar maple "decline" in this area. In fact, they're aggressively invading many forested areas near me. Of course, they (and red maples) do poorly over time in urban conditions.


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RE: Help with maple selection

I think maple decline is increasing in some areas because urbanization is. And the resultant air pollution which travels to rural areas, which is why forests are affected a bit as well.

Also I think road salt usage has increased over the years.

Beng - even here in Howard County, it seems that most of the understory in the more urbanized areas where woods exist consists of sugar maple saplings.

Yes, I'm sure they're Sugar and not Norway. So in 50 to 100 years, there will be some mature sugar maples in these woods, all else being equal. These are overstories of Liriodendron and several oaks for the most part. A few Carya as well.


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