Don't know but how about planting the native one instead? Chionanthus virginicus.

Oh by the way, plants are male and female so you do need both. But that doesn't explain your lack of flowers. When you say "decent sun" is that at least 5 hours worth?

The native one doesn't do the trick for me, sorry! Just doesn't look really "full," and especially in winter it's nowhere near as beautiful. Also, our chinese fringe tree has been in the ground for 4 years and I'm not interested in investing another $300 for a new specimen. This one's healthy, just no flowers.

As for the sun, I guess I mean that this is the eastern corner of the house, facing southeast. So, yes, it should receive the critical 5 hours' worth of sun. The tree is next to the house, and in ffront of the tree is our lawn, which is pretty lush (if I do say so, myself). To me, this additional evidence that sun conditions should be good.

I only have the one tree, though, so are you telling me I need another for fertilization (and, thus, for flowering)?

Not for flowering, but for fruit set, yes.

Hmmmm... So I still don't understand why we're not getting flowers on the tree. Suggestions?

is it in full sun??

is it near a lawn that is fed high nitrogen fertilizer .. too many times per year ...

it is not uncommon..for a potted plant [or ball and burlap] .. to be sexually mature and perform the first season after planting..

but thereafter.. the transplant sets it back.. and it takes a few years.. to grow or regrow the root mass.. sufficient to consider itself back to be sexually mature enough.. to begin the flowering again ...

you are not really going to get an real deep answer.. based on the dearth of facts you have provided ... and i suspect... even if you could give us all the facts.. all we can do is guess ...

a picture might be a great way to start .. check out the link

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

The easy answers are not enough sun, toomuch nitrogen, not enough nitrogen and pruning. there is an odd chance of unseen damage tbrough mechanisms that are just there, but over time these should balance out.

we tend to think of sun as a negotiatable matter. we negotiate. the plant tells us...if we know how to listen.

and last but not least there is proof that plants are sentient. thwy know much it means to you that this one flower...and the important it is to you the less likely they will. kinda like teenagers...which begets the question...if you were a chinese fringetree what tattoo would you get?

Ha! Strobiculate, you crack me up... I guess I need to care about this less so that my teenage tree will allow me the pleasure of its flower.

FWIW, I've tried to include a photo, but this web site doesn't accept my URL (in Picasa). Sigh. Despite this, having taken the photo I can definitely say the fringe tree is NOT under the canopy of the river birch. Sounds like either this tree isn't getting enough sun, or it could be a couple more years before I see blooms... It's already been 3 years. How long must I wait?!? Oh, NATURE. :(

fringe
tree likes moisture . Is there
water competition from river birch?

Do you fertilize the lawn? Have you pruned the fringe tree?

Post a picture.

I love that there are more questions on this thread! It's been four years since my last post. No fringe. The tree is completely thriving, healthy as a... tree. I do fertilize the lawn, and the fringe tree has only been pruned insofaras it needed to have dead wood removed, so it's been left to its normal habit. And yet, no fringe.

I have tried fertilizing around the tree base with a granular food for flowering trees & shrubs, but it obviously isn't making a difference. tmi1choice -- if the problem was water competition, would I really see NO issue with the tree other than lack of flowering? I'm open to any new ideas, here, but I definitely see no signs that the tree is in distress of any kind.

Could it be too much fertilizer? Fertilizers can favor vegetative growth at the expense flowers.

chinese fringe is pretty low maintenance, give it time because they don't like being planted next to structures

I don't know, edlincoln, that's probably not at issue, here. I've tried no fertilizer. I've tried fertilizer. No difference.

You asked for photos, so here goes. A close-up of the fringe tree right now (5/15/16):

And for context, here's where the fringe tree is sited at the front of the house (it's at the far right):

if a plant that is full sun ... doenst get enough sunlight.. there is a good chance.. it might not flower ...

better start pruning for the power line ... because the corollary is ... full sun plants in too much shade.. etoliate ...

ken

ken_adrian -- Chinese fringe tree is rated for partial to full sun, not just full sun. We're facing ESE, so generally I would think it's getting enough sun...

I got a two year old seedling (germination last year) of Chionanthus retusus that flowers this year. Of about 15 seedlings this is the only one that has flowers. Plant is still in a container.

gardenprince has provided a valuable clue. When plants, including Chinese fringe tree, are produced from seed rather than vegetatively through cuttings, etc., you have no assurance that what you've bought will bloom well or always be reluctant to set flower buds. If you know that your plant was vegetatively produced, than lack of sun is the most likely reason for its failure to bloom. A great deal of nursery stock, however, is produced from seed. It's cheaper, less labor intensive and the resulting plants can be sold for less, especially at the big box stores. With optimal growing conditions in pots with lots of fertilizer, these plants will bloom and look good in the store. Planted in the landscape, they revert to their little or no bloom nature.

Thanks for the insight, akamainegrower. Fertilizer won't do the trick, then. I just have a lovely tree that doesn't flower. Oh, well. In the spot this tree is planted was originally a star magnolia (which was killed during a construction project) and it bloomed just fine, so I am thinking you are on the right track.

Great ideas here. We have the same problem - 3 years planted and no flowering but very healthy-looking. No pruning, no fertilizer. Plenty of sun, light shade from late afternoon to evening. If two trees are needed (M/F) to bloom, how do I find out what I have?

My understanding is that Chinese Fringe Trees don't require M+F to bloom... anybody out there with more knowledge want to "school" me? :)

I don't know any tree that needs both males and females to bloom. The fact that it bloomed the first year means it's not too young, so probably isn't a "vegetative vs seed" issue. (In some ways seed grown plants are better...they have more genetic diversity. If a popular cultivar happens to be particularly vulnerable to a disease that disease spreads through the nurseries and neighborhoods because the cultivars are identical clones...) You tried fertilizer. So it's probably amount of sun. When it gets taller, it might grow out of the shade...I notice the top of your house is sunnier. Unfortunately, if it is allowed to get taller it will hit the electrical lines.

It might be too big and risky a project at this point, but if you could move it a few feet over, to the spot between the windows, it might get more sun and could be allowed to grow a bit taller.

Beautiful yard, by the way.

Chinese fringe trees are dioecious - seperate male and female trees (with the occasional perfect flower that does not need two trees to produce fruits). This has nothing to do with blooming on Chinese fringe tree or any other tree.

edlincoln: Genetic diversity is important as it applies to large populations of trees, fruit crops, vegetables and plants in general. To claim that seed grown plants are superior in a single specimen grown for its ornamental value because of genetic diversity is just not true. Named varieties, and there are a couple named fringe trees, are the result of growing many, many trees from seed and selecting superior forms which are then reproduced through asexual propagation. (Some forms are also found growing wild and enter horticulture because they are also seen as superior in some way: brighter color, more adaptable, increased hardiness, etc.) Humans have been practicing selection and asexual reproduction for millennia. Buying a seed grown apple tree, for example, does not give you something superior to a tree that will reliably produce Golden Delicious apples. Likewise, you seem to seriously underestimate the use of chemical growth regulators and their effect on plants.. That ntrainer's female tree once bloomed and produced fruit does not necessarily indicate sexual maturity. Nursery growers aim to produce the most saleable product they can. Growth regulators are routinely employed to produce stocky plants with lots and lots of flower buds that look irresistible at the garden center. Once the effect of these chemicals wears off, the plant reverts to its genetically determined form. If grown from seed, you may luck out with a reliable bloomer or you may find yourself with one that blooms rarely.

akamainegrower -- thanks for your perspective. Would you reach a similar conclusion to edlincoln, that is, my particular plant "naturally" (that is, without the use of serious amounts of chemical help) is not meant to flower due to its particular genetic characteristics?

ntrainer: My sense from edlincoln's most recent post is that he believes your tree does not bloom because of too little sunlight. He pretty much discounts the possibility of seed grown fringe trees varying in amount of bloom and seems to believe that seed grown plants are superior because of a mistaken notion of how genetic diversity works. He also seems not to be aware of the use of chemical growth regulators to induce early flower bud production in potted nursery stock. I raised the possibility of seed produced vs. asexual propagation in my first post. I still think this is a very real possibility in your case. It is odd, however, that there is no bloom at all. Fringe trees bloom on new wood, so if you're not pruning at the wrong time and inadvertently cutting off the current year's wood, we are left with the possibilities of an inferior seed raised tree, too little sun (which does not seem to be the case) or excessive nitrogen fertilizer which is causing excessive vegetative growth at the expense of flowers. If you eliminate the last two we are left with the first as the most likely explanation.

o

Good analysis... I think I must sadly agree with you.

I'm with the insufficient sunlight group.

While it is true that it's a genetic roll of the dice with regard to most any traits when you're dealing with seedlings (I have several seed-grown kousa dogwoods that have tiny little flowers, and not many of them, at that) - I'm not able to support akmaine's theory on this one. The tree, when purchased, was fruit-laden, and bloomed well the next spring...hence, it has the genetic capacity to bloom profusely.

I think that gardenprince almost stumbled onto the key...prince's bloomer is still in a pot...and perhaps approaching being 'potbound'. I have had similar encounters with containerized dogwoods and redbuds...purchased in profuse full bloom in 3-gal pots... but when planted in the ground here... they don't sulk, but refuse to bloom again for quite a few years. I'm not a plant physiologist (but have some basic knowledge in that field)... but you get into considerations regarding balance of root mass and topgrowth, auxins, etc., that come into play with the plant 'feeling the need' to flower and reproduce.

You could likely manipulate this tree into blooming more heavily by influencing the above, by a number of practices... like judicious root-pruning, or even (I'm not kidding) smacking it around frequently with a rolled up newspaper or other bludgeon that will not physically damage the bark.

or even partial girdling...which was popular with fruit growers. Knowing nothing about these trees, I have little of use to contribute but there may be issues with the hormone/root mass balance - we often see the same in very old roses and fruit trees which can be revivified by preventing the rapid upward flow of springtime sap by either training or nicking/girdling the trunks. This was definitely an extant practice when my hort.tutor was a lad (he demonstrated at length) but whether is is a recommended practice today, I couldn't say.

Since it is damp and gloomy I decided to do a little research via Google. Let me say first that I have loads of fringe trees, 20-25 planted and many volunteers. Fringe trees are native here. But we are talking Chinese fringe, not virginicus. I only have one, in full sun, planted from a small (1 quart?) mail order plant maybe 10 years ago. It is branched to the ground, very dense, and has been covered with blooms every year since it has begun blooming. Unfortunately I don't remember when it reached inflorescence. There aren't many C. retusus around here, and the few I've seen are very dense, multistemmed small trees that are covered with blooms.

So I looked at many sites, mostly university and arboretum, a couple government, and one newspaper garden column. I also looked at Google Images, and looked to see what Dirr had to say in his Manual of Woody Landscape Plants, fourth edition.

All mentioned the habit as varying from multistemmed dense large shrubs-small trees to single stem somewhat taller trees, with the former being much more common. A couple sites mentioned that the single stem type came from Korea, and took longer to bloom. All sites said full sun-part shade. None of the sites mentioned any problem with seed grown plants having variable bloom, such as one sees when talking about wisteria. None said anything about lack of sun causing little or no bloom. Dirr mentioned the difference between Korean provenance and others, but doesn't elaborate. Google Images shows all C.retusus as dense, open grown trees, as near as I can make out, covered with bloom.

Then there is the garden column from The Washington Post. What caught my eye in the listings was, My Chinese fringe tree won't bloom... So the author talks about the virtues of the tree and then says... Most don't know there are two types (like discussed above) but the Korean type is more tree-like and can take a long time to bloom. It is the least common in nurseries and usually not labeled as such. But wait, there's more! There is a way for the layman to tell the difference between the two. C.retusus has round to oval leaves, whereas the Korean form has longer, more narrow leaves. The Korean form can take a long time to bloom from seed. When I saw the foto of the foliage in the OP, I thought to myself, self, that doesn't look anything like any C.retusus foliage I've ever seen. Soooo... If the article is accurate, and it's the only place in my search that this info is found, it may be that the tree in question is of Korean provenance and will take a while to bloom, shade aside.hope this works

Well, the link worked, it goes to the Post, but says article can't be found. If you Google Chinese fringe tree and scroll through the listings you should find it.

I'm another proponent of the insufficient sunlight group. But kentrees has introduced some good info. C retusus is definitely a variable species, and it could be that the more northern tree-like ecotype (what kentrees referred to as Korean form) is generally a bit less floriferous. I believe the OP's tree would have flowers if it was given more sunlight.

Here's a photo taken 5/20/15 (not very good quality) of one of our trees in bloom. The tree is well established in full sun and the flower display is still underwhelming.

close-up of the same tree's flowers and leaves (5/20/15)

arbordave

I've never seen a C.retusus like that locally. They all have been as I described above and simply smothered in bloom. And but for this little bit of research I'd never realized there were two (or more) forms in commerce. It's too bad the nurseries don't ID their ecotypes. It's obvious that tree is in full sun and has some age on it. Interestingly, in all I've read, there was never any mention of less bloom in part shade or variability of seed source or age of inflorescense. Yellowwood is ALWAYS noted as taking a decade or more to bloom.

Kentrees12 -- thank you so much for all your legwork. Very informative. It's an interesting theory that might give me some hope to just be patient. I've had this tree in the ground 7 years, though, and when I bought it it was a burlapped specimen, so it's certainly more than 10 years old by now. So if I want to believe that this tree will someday bloom, I'll have to believe the "or more" of your research indicating that yellowood takes "a decade or more" to bloom.

I saw the comment about C. virginicus not looking really "full".

Have to differ on that one (my plant in mostly full sun is obviously more of a shrubby form). Looking spectacular and full of fragrance this spring:

I have a Chinese fringe tree planted in a very shady area. It took about three years before it started blooming. While the bloom is not nearly what it would be if it were in full sun, it's still quite substantial. My tree was smaller than yours when it first started blooming. Do we know where you're located? I don't think I saw that above.

Yes, I've been very pleased with the native fringe tree, but will admit that it usually looks like rusty_blackhaw's plant, a large shrub. I haven't grown the Chinese, which seems more treelike from the photos.

I'm learning toward lawn nitrogen and/or too little light.

I'm located in Northern Virginia, close to Washington, D.C. I will say I can't imagine lawn nitrogen is the culprit, given the fact that this tree is downhill from no lawn whatsoever. You can see from the photos that it's nestled in a planting bed and the slope goes parallel to the house along that planting bed. Yes, I can imagine by now some of the roots may be under some lawn, but certainly not the entire tree. I haven't read anywhere that this tree is so sensitive to lawn nitrogen that it can't be planted within grass that is normally maintained.

akamainegrower: A bit snarky, are we? My contention was that the most common reason a cloned specimen might bloom earlier then a seed grown one has to do with age, and the fact it bloomed means that isn't the case here.

My point is that genetically unique seed grown specimens aren't all bad, using them has some compensations. Every individual is a bit more vulnerable to some diseases and resistant to others. When you mass produce genetically identical specimens, the diseases those specimens happen to be vulnerable to can spread like wildfire, because they find lots of vulnerable hosts. (While the diseases your particular seed grown specimen may be vulnerable to may be less common)

This is neither here nor there.

Yes, I did discount the possibility of hormone growth factors.

Is moving the tree feasible?

""I think that gardenprince almost stumbled onto the key...prince's bloomer is still in a pot...and perhaps approaching being 'potbound'""

No it is not potbound. Repotted the Chimonanthus retusus about 2 months ago from what is known in the European plant trade as P9 pot (small squared black pot) to a 2,5 liter container ( about 4 gallon if I did the conversion right ;) )

edlincoln -- Oh, I mean I guess anything is feasible if you have enough money... but in this case I really want a tree to "mark" the corner of the property, as it slopes down. (Having height there helps improve the look of a sloped front yard, at least according to most landscape gardening theory I've been in contact with.)

So moving this tree just to potentially get it to flower seems like a waste of money. Those of you who think this is a "too much shade" issue -- doesn't it make a difference that the tree to the south of this one is a (late leafing) river birch? Shouldn't that mean the fringe tree is getting enough sun in the spring?

Spring is not as important as the rest of the growing season.

This photo (taken 6/3/16) shows the potential for variation in flowering (compare to the photo in my post above). This tree is also the taller growing "northern" type, but has a better flower display. Some of the difference in flowering could be attributed to the better soil conditions at this location. I noticed some of the leaves in the lower part of the crown appear to have anthracnose (ash anthracnose?). I've observed anthracnose before on other C retusus in the area. Have also seen what appeared to be adult EAB feeding damage on the foliage when EAB was at its peak here (haven't seen any evidence of larval damage however).

Of my three Amer fringe trees, 2 always mostly die back from the winter, and one doesn't. Don't know why. The"good" one regularly puts on an OK-to-good show. Below are the 3 with umbrella magnolia in their midst:

Here's a closeup of the good one:

And a closeup of an umbrella mag flower:

Just fyi beng, the native fringetree is susceptible to EAB; Chinese fringetree is apparently resistant.

Dave, you know, I thought about that. I really can't see any evidence of it -- the stems just seem to die over the winter w/o any other visible clues. Of course, evidence on a stem might be harder to discern than on a large tree-trunk w/hundreds of D-shaped holes. And then, why would the "good" one be unaffected?

Beng, if your fringetrees had been killed back by EAB, I think the D-shaped exit holes would be fairly obvious. And like you say, if EAB was the cause why would 1 of them be totally unaffected? Maybe the plant with no winter dieback is a more northern seed source (?)

Dave, all three were from Forestfarm about 10 yrs ago. First couple yrs there was no damage on any, but then the damage started on the two and continues from then on. Click on the first pic to see the sorry shape those two are in, and the second pic shows one of 'em at extreme right.

Anyway, I have a Chinese dogwood seedling planted at the base of the two "bad" ones to take over if they don't improve. Maybe the sycamore they're all planted underneath is having some allopathic effect on 2 of them....

Hi! Does anyone know if the CHINESE Fringe Tree (Chionanthus retusus) has medicinal properties like the native fringe tree (Chionanthus virginicus) does?