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| Hi:
As humans age, small ends of their 'telomeres' (been a long time since I studied genetics, so my science & understanding of this are awfully rusty) break off. And if you clone an adult animals, you get a clone that's the same age as the animal was when you took the tissue, or so I read in some article way back when. I want to know whether this applies to trees. On page 249 of the book Native Trees for North American Landscapes, it mentions the (largely fruitless, so no spiky balls) Sweetgum cultivar 'Rotundiloba,' which was discovered in North Carolina in 1930. Or, for that matter, consider the October Glory Red Maple. Of the 'Bloodgood' Japanese Maple. Or 'Autumn Gold' Ginkgo. If I understand correctly, many of these trees are produced by cutting a small branch off the 'parent' tree, attaching it to an inflicted wound on the base of a small tree of the species, and if it 'takes' the rest of the species tree is cut away, leaving your branch stuck on the root stock of the species tree, making a new 'Franken Tree.' I've got an 'Autumn Gold' Ginkgo and a 'Bloodgood' Japanese Maple. Are these trees in effect 'baby oldsters,' only a few to several feet tall but decades old genetically (at least above the graft)? If I get a 'Rotundiloba' Sweetgum, am I getting a tree that, genetically and for purposes of longevity, was already an adult way back in 1930? That's maybe over 100 years old? Just wondering what the longevity prospects are for some of our named popular cultivars. Richard. |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by houstontexas123 z9a (My Page) on Sat, Apr 14, 12 at 4:12
| very interesting, i'm not sure how plant cells replicate, miosis, mitosis, etc, can't remember that stuff, too long ago. we know that when you cut down a tree, you count the rings to tell its age b/c those cells have physically lived that long. but would the new tissues/cells of the graft be considered new? i would think that even though the dna is the same, the new growth would be new. |
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- Posted by alexander3 6 (My Page) on Sat, Apr 14, 12 at 14:24
| I'm not aware of any evidence indicating that plants age as you describe. When very old trees die, it's not because the individual tissues and cells are old and decrepit, it's because of the overall structure of the tree. There's too little living tissue (sometimes called dynamic mass) to support such a big thing. This can be overcome to some extent by regular pruning, as best exemplified by very old bonsai specimens that have lived hundreds of years. In a very old tree, the tissue that lives doesn't show any sings of old age AFAIK, so I don't think you need to be concerned about old varieties being lost to old age. Alex |
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- Posted by konrad___far_north 3..just outside of E (My Page) on Sat, Apr 14, 12 at 16:47
| Yes....age has something to do with your theory. I only know it of some fruits,..lets say to take a seedling, it can take many years to produce fruit. But now if you cut this seedling and top graft to a mature tree you can see fruit the following year. Juvenile/young wood is called water sprouts, [vigorous wood] |
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- Posted by lou_midlothian_tx z8 DFW, Tx (My Page) on Sat, Apr 14, 12 at 19:13
| Chinese propagators observed that as well when they were rooting taxodium hybrid cuttings off older clones. To counter that effect, get the cuttings off young clones and they have much higher success. A.p. Tamukeyama has been around since 1710! |
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| "A.p. Tamukeyama has been around since 1710!" So, that one I planted in the backyard near our deck the other day is already an old fogey! Thanks, all. Good to know. Richard. |
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- Posted by toronado3800 Z6 St. Louis (My Page) on Sun, Apr 15, 12 at 3:44
| Perhaps the question is what is the rate of change/decay in genetic material in hardwood trees? |
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| Well surely it would be different with each species AND vary further by individual. Isn't there a poplar colony in the midwest that is made up of many clones connected through the roots that is a couple thousand years old? They at least don't seem to be too bothered cloning over and over with no change. Edit: oh it was a little older than a couple thousand years... like 80,000 more lol |
Here is a link that might be useful: Pando
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| There's no evidence of any ageing in the oldest Pinus longaeva, their foliage, cones, and seeds are equal to those of young trees. What is true though is that plants grafted with scions from mature trees bear flowers / fruit much more quickly than seedling trees, so there is some physiological maturity transferred in grafting. "Edit: oh it was a little older than a couple thousand years... like 80,000 more lol" The claimed age for 'Pando' is pure speculation, and completely without hard evidence; it is based on the false claim that "conditions in the area have been unsuitable for Aspen seed germination in the last 80,000 years". With Aspen roots easily able to grow a metre a year, a clone that size (43 hectares) could develop in as short as 370-400 years. Resin |
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